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We'd need additional information to have any hope of answering that.  (Genre, whether it can be broken down / actually follows a serial-style arc, target market, etc etc.)
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May 23, 2015 16:10
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Ack, sorry for the content-light question. The genre would be fiction with a heavy action-thriller component, the original plot arc was intended as a contiguous narrative but it would be very easy to fiddle with and reformat as 4-6 15,000-word sections that stand on their own. Target market would be men and women age 16-27, the format I'm going for is "young adult fiction for adults," if that makes any sense: character study framed in a super-simple narrative conceit, "We like these people so let's watch them go on adventures". Omi no Kami fucked around with this message at 18:14 on May 23, 2015 |
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May 23, 2015 18:06
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I know you might think 16-27 might be your target demographic, but it's always 18-45 or some subset of that age group.
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May 23, 2015 18:32
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I'm gonna go with a resounding ehhhhhh about splitting it up. Action/Adventure/Thriller does need some length or people will assume you're stringing them along. 15k seems far too short. Take a look around in the genre, see how similar books are doing it. If you can't find any similar books, reconsider approach entirely.
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May 23, 2015 18:34
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18-45 sounds reasonable, although in practice I suspect most of the plot I'm writing will come off as excessively silly past a certain age- it's basically juvenile wish-fulfillment with bigger words. I think that in terms of pure format, keeping it together does make more sense, I'm just trying to make sure that I'm not cheating myself out of money- selling a single work for 2.99 when I could be selling it in four 0.99 chunks.
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May 23, 2015 18:38
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edit: nevermind
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May 23, 2015 19:01
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Omi no Kami posted:18-45 sounds reasonable, although in practice I suspect most of the plot I'm writing will come off as excessively silly past a certain age- it's basically juvenile wish-fulfillment with bigger words. 0.99 only gets 35% royalties on amazon, though. So Selling one 2.99 story gets you 2 bucks in royalties, selling four 0.99 stories only gets you 1.4. You do get a little more exposure since more people are willing to take a chance at 0.99, but in my experience it doesn't make up for the lower rate.
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May 23, 2015 19:39
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My fist book got put into the erotica category (and nothing else, not sure why). I took all the erotica-related keywords, but it won't come out. Any tips, or should I just contact them directly and beg?
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May 23, 2015 20:41
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the brotherly phl posted:My fist book got put into the erotica category (and nothing else, not sure why). I took all the erotica-related keywords, but it won't come out. Any tips, or should I just contact them directly and beg? I think I've spotted your problem
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May 23, 2015 20:48
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the brotherly phl posted:My fist book got put into the erotica category (and nothing else, not sure why). I took all the erotica-related keywords, but it won't come out. Any tips, or should I just contact them directly and beg? Email title-submission@amazon.com and tell them your book is not erotica and should not be in the erotica category.
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May 23, 2015 21:10
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EngineerSean posted:Email title-submission@amazon.com and tell them your book is not erotica and should not be in the erotica category. Thanks Sean, will do. ArchangeI posted:I think I've spotted your problem I guess I can't help myself. The porn must flow!
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May 23, 2015 22:05
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Ran a BKnights promo over the weekend to coincide with a countdown deal. No noticeable effect on sales. Bit disheartening if i'm honest.
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May 24, 2015 12:44
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the brotherly phl posted:My fist book got put into the erotica category (and nothing else, not sure why). I took all the erotica-related keywords, but it won't come out. Any tips, or should I just contact them directly and beg? Is there a downside to being in that category? And was it legitimately not super-romance, or is it the kind of thing where even if it is erotica, you don't want it in that category?
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May 24, 2015 14:05
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Barracuda Bang! posted:Is there a downside to being in that category? It's not as big a deal as it used to be, because if you search for erotica now, it tells you about the adult filter and even gives you a link to disable it on your account. It just means that if you write billionaire smut, it won't accidentally show up if people are just searching for billionaire romance.
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May 24, 2015 15:13
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Bobby Deluxe posted:You get gated behind the adult filter, so people don't see it in search results unless they've specifically allowed adult results. I don't think that it got adult dunegeoned, actually. Just stuck in the erotica category. At least, it comes up when I search for it on Amazon?
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May 24, 2015 15:18
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Yeah the adult filter is different to the erotica category. I spent ages sorting out and cataloguing my keywords and I refined them a bit and 'fixed' them on all my books to coincide with a free book campaign on each pen name and the end result after 4 days is... Sweet gently caress all. I really suck at keywords
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May 24, 2015 17:02
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Actually, if you don't have to be in that category, don't be in it. There's a lot more going on there than just the adult filter. The exact workings of the search algorithm change that went in a few months back aren't entirely known, but you can basically assume that 95-100% of relevant search results outside erotica will show up in search results BEFORE YOURS if it is in erotica, regardless of your sales rank, popularity, etc. Your book can be ranked #600 in the store, and it'll show up behind a #200,000-ranked story with similar search criteria if yours is in erotica and theirs isn't. There are a few results that seem to not follow that rule, but enough of them do that I wouldn't risk being the exception. If you aren't 100% erotica-and-nothing-else, stay out of the category.
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May 24, 2015 17:37
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Does the same apply for romantic erotica? I have a couple that are definitely more like steamy romance, so if they'd be doing better under romance, I'd gladly move them.
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May 24, 2015 17:45
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Sundae posted:Actually, if you don't have to be in that category, don't be in it. There's a lot more going on there than just the adult filter. The exact workings of the search algorithm change that went in a few months back aren't entirely known, but you can basically assume that 95-100% of relevant search results outside erotica will show up in search results BEFORE YOURS if it is in erotica, regardless of your sales rank, popularity, etc. Your book can be ranked #600 in the store, and it'll show up behind a #200,000-ranked story with similar search criteria if yours is in erotica and theirs isn't. I have read nothing about this search algorithm change or the erotica category being bad, if anything the folks on the relevant subreddit claim that its safer to be in that category because you are less likely to be reported and dungeoned by angry puritans. I guess my ongoing research has really taken a back seat to other stuff. I will try migrating over into romance novellas and see how that goes for me..
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May 24, 2015 17:54
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Does the same apply for romantic erotica? I have a couple that are definitely more like steamy romance, so if they'd be doing better under romance, I'd gladly move them. It applies for anything in the erotica category. I can't vouch for the "Romance --> Erotica" subcategory, but if you put it in "Erotica" you are going to be below everything else related. (I can't guarantee your stuff will do better either if you've already released them, given the popularity factors in the search algorithms.) quote:I have read nothing about this search algorithm change or the erotica category being bad, if anything the folks on the relevant subreddit claim that its safer to be in that category because you are less likely to be reported and dungeoned by angry puritans. I guess my ongoing research has really taken a back seat to other stuff. I don't know how widely known the category issue is, but my findings are consistent with a month-long test that a fellow author performed. She demonstrated that her erotica-categorized stuff was being slammed behind everything else non-erotic, my own stories matched her findings, as did the vast majority of searches I performed. I have no reason not to believe her findings, I'll say. Edit: Called it a two-month-long test originally. Reviewed her posts on the topic, saw it's actually a little shorter than a month. Fixed that. Sundae fucked around with this message at 18:34 on May 24, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 18:31
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The issue for old material is that you won't be able to reupload it or get it taken out of erotica once it's already in there, as I understand it. The only solution is to write more stuff that won't get classified as simple erotica (make it longer, maybe? A romance with super romance scenes?), and choose better categories. That's a shame but it might be worth taking my stuff out of KDP and putting it on other markets - I haven't tried those yet but if my existing Amazon catalogue is being nerfed I may as well try it out once I have replaced it with newer stuff. I wonder if I can use the same tax forms that Amazon filled out for me when I'm signing up as a non-US author on other markets..
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May 24, 2015 18:38
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Sundae posted:Actually, if you don't have to be in that category, don't be in it. There's a lot more going on there than just the adult filter. The exact workings of the search algorithm change that went in a few months back aren't entirely known, but you can basically assume that 95-100% of relevant search results outside erotica will show up in search results BEFORE YOURS if it is in erotica, regardless of your sales rank, popularity, etc. Your book can be ranked #600 in the store, and it'll show up behind a #200,000-ranked story with similar search criteria if yours is in erotica and theirs isn't. Thanks Sundae, I emailed the address Sean recommended and I'm still waiting to hear back. Hopefully they'll pull it out for me.
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May 24, 2015 18:46
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Hmm, amazon's help topics are a bit unclear: let's say people really want to pay to read triceratops porn, so I want to publish triceratops porn alongside serious fiction, all without contaminating the rest of my portfolio or risking harm to my reputation in meatspace- am I allowed to form a one-man publishing company, make an amazon account with the publisher's bank account + EIN, then publish works written and submitted by "anonymous" writers within the company?
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May 25, 2015 01:25
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Omi no Kami posted:Hmm, amazon's help topics are a bit unclear: let's say people really want to pay to read triceratops porn, so I want to publish triceratops porn alongside serious fiction, all without contaminating the rest of my portfolio or risking harm to my reputation in meatspace- am I allowed to form a one-man publishing company, make an amazon account with the publisher's bank account + EIN, then publish works written and submitted by "anonymous" writers within the company? You can publish all this on the same account but amazon will absolutely use that triceratops porn against you if you ever become famous.
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May 25, 2015 02:56
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EngineerSean posted:You can publish all this on the same account but amazon will absolutely use that triceratops porn against you if you ever become famous. Is there any way, some way you can structure things, so Amazon won't use dinosaur porn against you if you become famous?
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May 25, 2015 03:33
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Sure. Imagine you were permabanned on Something Awful but still wanted to post. What would you do? Do all this, plus get a new EIN and bank account.
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May 25, 2015 03:35
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EngineerSean posted:You can publish all this on the same account but amazon will absolutely use that triceratops porn against you if you ever become famous. Wait, what? In what sense? Is this a thing that has actually happened, and what is the exact risk? I just gave Amazon my real details for payment etc and used different pen names for the titles published. But if you sign up multiple Amazon accounts for payment etc that is definitely against the rules and they can ban your account and seize unpaid royalties, from memory. I was planning on publishing real literature under the same account but different pen names, which should have been all that was required.
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May 25, 2015 09:06
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quote:But if you sign up multiple Amazon accounts for payment etc that is definitely against the rules and they can ban your account and seize unpaid royalties, from memory. and if you signed up for another SA account after being permabanned, you'd get banned again, right? so don't do something that would get you banned on Something Awful again. You are absolutely right that different pen names should have been all that was required and I can't explain away Amazon's bizarre behavior with regards to this. I'm also not saying that they're going to run to the nearest media outlet with it. but they will absolutely use that information internally to deny you promotional opportunities, etc.
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May 25, 2015 14:12
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Goddamn Amazon is terrible. I used my real name for the tax form, will have to see how that affects it. Maybe I'll just form my own distribution system and conquer the book world with it
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May 25, 2015 14:42
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So having finished the thread I want to give this a shot. Please assume for all these questions a person with no experience, connections or history beyond this thread. Also assume standard or young adult romance for the genre. First off, awesome thread. Second howtowritearomancenovel.com is an awesome site, I assume from the language one of you guys wrote it. Are there any other similar sites out there that come recommended? Ive planned out when I could actually write and given averages from this thread and what I know about myself it works out to about 1 60-80,000 word novel a month with about a week for the stuff that isnt words on the page (cover, blurb, amazon administration, promotion etc) I think its safe to assume everything will take twice as long at first so maybe double all the timescales till I get to grips with it all. How does this rate of writing sound? Editing costs cash. Good covers cost cash. Your first novel will probably bomb. Success is often built on the back of multiple releases and consistent publishing. How do you guys reconcile that? Pay for editing and a good cover and call it an investment in the future? Wing it for a couple of books and hope you make enougj to start paying from proceeds? Write super romance until you can cover the additional costs of novels? Im perfectly happy to cover the costs of the first books out of pocket, just dont want to throw good money away if the answer is along the lines of "wing it because no one will read it". Lets talk order of operations. So far I can see the following plan of attack. 1) Read a bunch of stuff that sells in my genre 2) Plan and write 3) Blurb and cover 4) editing depending on the answer to the above 5) promotion 6) go to 1) 6.5) refresh amazon sales information until the crushing disappointment gives way to sleep. Regarding that can someone suggest a few novels that are good examples in the romance genre? Can we talk finances as well? I know the usual caveates apply but I don't even know what ballpark we are talking in at the moment. Based on some sort of averages and the above at what point would you expect a pen names novels to cover their own editing and cover costs? How are writers without a good history, network of connections and pre-existing fanbase doing? Lastly what's the difference between a moana, a sean and a sundae and someone not doing well at all? Has it been a slow and steady build as you stack small gains with each book published or is it more tootling along just about making it work until you write a breakout and being in position to capitalise on that? Thanks for reading my wall of text!
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May 25, 2015 14:56
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I published my first story on Amazon last night. I'm delighted with it even if the only people who have read it are other authors in the IRC channel. One of them even gave me a great review (of their own volition.) That actually had me tearing up a little. I'm now at the point where no-one is reading it. I guess the next thing is to write a second short, publish it, promo the first one with mail-shots and hope people move on to the second. I do have worries about how well I'm targeting the market. However, I also don't want to write anything I'm uncomfortable with, or that I wouldn't read myself. Now that I have something published I plan on doing my writing as well as immersing myself in the appropriate communities, and getting to know the markets better. I just feel at a little disadvantage because I have no obvious 'gimmick' for my novels. I want them to be about real people, with intelligence, emotions, reactions (justified and unjustified) and it seems that a lot of authors, although they may do this also hook their novels on something whether it be witchcraft, vampires, billionaires, or historical periods. These worries are only minor though. I plan on continuing writing and I know I need to keep publishing to internalise and become fully aware of the things people talk about in this thread. It's all learning for me.
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May 25, 2015 15:39
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Thanks for reading my wall of text! I started in January. I am an author with no networks and no fanbase. I put my first book out and made about ~250 in February. Then I released another book, made 1600 in March and 1500 April. My second book is still my best performer. Because of the way Amazon pays out, though, I haven't seen that 1600 or that 1500 yet. I now have a third book released (it's doing okay; I'll probably make like 1200 this month depending on the KU payout), and haven't actually made back any of the money that I've invested. I will at the end of this month. But that's something to keep in mind: you won't see any profit until 3 months after you first start selling your first book, and that first book probably won't bring in the big bux (tho it might?). Budget for that. From what I've seen, self pubbing romance isn't an easy button or a make money quick thing, but it's a viable long term way of building something for yourself if you can write quickly, write well, work hard, and are willing to learn. So my advice is, read a bunch of best sellers in your genre (just look at the Amazon categories), search around for cover artists and editors, and set a hard budget. Assume you won't get paid for at least 3 - 4 months.
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May 25, 2015 16:50
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What kind of frequency do you need to maintain if you're trying to shoot for stable revenue? Is a reasonably popular book going to keep selling, or are you looking at a handful of months of income per book, at which point you'd better have something new ready? Also, not to ask the obvious, but the authors who actually make a living wage off of this are primarily focusing on novel-length works, right? There's no money in shotgunning high-quality short stories of 10-20k words each and hoping that 1/5 hits?
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May 25, 2015 17:19
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I'm making a solid living off the forbidden genre, so shorts are definitely lucrative if you do them correctly. My general experience is that forbidden shorts have a lifespan of about 3-5 weeks before they become background noise. Novels will give you 1 month for non-hits, 3 months for successes, and as long as you'd like for super-hits if you play your promo and freebie drives correctly. There are others who can speak better to the super-hits than I can, because the best I've had are moderate successes on that front. I can't vouch for shorts outside of the forbidden genre because all of mine bombed HARD.  You will have to keep pumping content one way or another. You can't just write 2-3 things and then hope they make you $$$ forever. That being said, as long as you keep producing quality, targeted content, you'll keep growing that $$$. In terms of frequency, I currently produce stories at a rate of one per week (ideally 3 every two weeks), and I release the balance every two weeks.
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May 25, 2015 17:25
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Since you're already established, do you mind if I ask how you decide what to write? Do you do a lot of demographic research in the form of "Okay, 82% of ebook purchasers in 2014 were women age 30-54, here's the subgenres of romance that sold best, here's the matrix of narrative attributes that the bestesellers all had in common," or is this more a matter of finding a niche that you're good at writing and building a pen-name through repeated, quality releases?
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May 25, 2015 17:28
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Goddamn Amazon is terrible. I used my real name for the tax form, will have to see how that affects it. Maybe I'll just form my own distribution system and conquer the book world with it I hope somebody eventually does.
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May 25, 2015 17:43
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Can we talk finances as well? I know the usual caveates apply Kinda lollin' at just handwaving away whether you'll be good at this or not, but this could be anywhere from an expensive hobby to a million dollar a year career.
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May 25, 2015 17:53
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EngineerSean posted:Kinda lollin' at just handwaving away whether you'll be good at this or not, but this could be anywhere from an expensive hobby to a million dollar a year career. Wait, you have to actually be good at this to be successful? poo poo.
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May 25, 2015 18:58
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:a moana, a sean and a sundae Way to give away the title of my first self-published children's book
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May 25, 2015 19:03
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EngineerSean posted:Kinda lollin' at just handwaving away whether you'll be good at this or not, but this could be anywhere from an expensive hobby to a million dollar a year career. Thats a perfectly valid point. Im not assuming im awesome but im not starting from the assumption everyone instantly deletes my novel in disgust after reading the first line either as that would make giving it a go kinda pointless. Until the world/market decides how good/bad I am I plan on sticking with the minimum of "not utterly hopeless". I know you do well financially at writing, how much would you say your success is down to writing ability, publishing consistancy and luck (or something else)? Assuming you don't mind me asking of course.
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May 25, 2015 19:28
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