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CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001

Passion’s Wrench
Miata. If op is too tall, just take the top off.

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Literally Lewis Hamilton
Feb 22, 2005



CannonFodder posted:

Miata. If op is too tall, just take the top off.

When I read passengers I'm assuming OP means a 4 seater.

GTI is a good choice too.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
Define tall. Lotta 6 foot dudes think they're tall.

Also, don't assume that a bug car will have room for you and a small car won't. You have to sit in them. Small cars have more thought paid to ergonomics, so you may be surprised.

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004

nm posted:

Define tall. Lotta 6 foot dudes think they're tall.

Also, don't assume that a bug car will have room for you and a small car won't. You have to sit in them. Small cars have more thought paid to ergonomics, so you may be surprised.

6'3" is tall enough that I've had trouble fitting in cars before. Obviously I'll have to actually sit in some cars to figure out what works but I was just looking for some general suggestions because I've never actually bought a car myself before and I've been driving the same one for 10 years.

Anyone have an opinion on a Hyundai Veloster? I've had a few pop up in my searches and it looks similar to the GTI/Golf.

Bakalakadaka fucked around with this message at 20:00 on May 23, 2015

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Bakalakadaka posted:

6'3" is tall enough that I've had trouble fitting in cars before. Obviously I'll have to actually sit in some cars to figure out what works but I was just looking for some general suggestions because I've never actually bought a car myself before and I've been driving the same one for 10 years.

6'3" should fit in pretty much every modern car that isn't a miata or similar very small sports car. You have to test because some have weird ergonomic issues though, but I wouldn't rule anything in or out.

Question: do you need 4 doors?

The veloster is crap with reliability issues.

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004

nm posted:

6'3" should fit in pretty much every modern car that isn't a miata or similar very small sports car. You have to test because some have weird ergonomic issues though, but I wouldn't rule anything in or out.

Question: do you need 4 doors?

The veloster is crap with reliability issues.

Good to know about the Veloster. Don't need 4 doors but I do want to have a back seat.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
How usable shoulf the back seat be?

Bakalakadaka
Sep 18, 2004

Ideally able to fit one or two people my size without being too horribly cramped for a short trip. I don't forsee any long road trips with a bunch of people and I have friends with bigger cars anyway.

Edit: tried out a brand new 2015 impreza hatchback and liked it a lot, going to take a look at an almost brand new 2015 GTI tomorrow.

Bakalakadaka fucked around with this message at 20:19 on May 24, 2015

PsychicToaster
Jan 12, 2010
Are there any Chrysler 300 drivers out there? I've been looking into used cars, and I really like the body style and interior of the car, particularly the 2011 model and up. I know Chrysler has had a problem with recalls for awhile, but are the newer 300s a bit more reliable? I don't care much for MPG, I just want a big, comfortable car that is enjoyable to drive, and the 300 seems to fit the bill. I'm not sure if it's a worthy investment though in terms of whether or not I'll end up in the shop a month down the road. I'm considering a used 2013 model if that is of any help. Google doesn't seem to offer many results, and most of what I do find is positive.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

PsychicToaster posted:

Are there any Chrysler 300 drivers out there? I've been looking into used cars, and I really like the body style and interior of the car, particularly the 2011 model and up. I know Chrysler has had a problem with recalls for awhile, but are the newer 300s a bit more reliable? I don't care much for MPG, I just want a big, comfortable car that is enjoyable to drive, and the 300 seems to fit the bill. I'm not sure if it's a worthy investment though in terms of whether or not I'll end up in the shop a month down the road. I'm considering a used 2013 model if that is of any help. Google doesn't seem to offer many results, and most of what I do find is positive.

As long as it wasn't a rental, a 2013 will still be under warranty, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The drivetrains on these have always been reliable, the rest of the car wasn't great but generally the problems weren't hugely expensive or likely to strand you - i.e. the sunroof seems to be a source of a lot of issues, get one without the sunroof and you'll avoid most of them.The quality has been getting better once the 2013 rolled around according to the stats.

If that's the style of vehicle you are looking for you could also consider a Hyundai Genesis from the same era, it will have more warranty coverage if you are concerned about it. I think they look kind of bland styling wise but they are a match for or better than the Chrysler in every other respect. Pricing is about the same.

PsychicToaster
Jan 12, 2010

Throatwarbler posted:

As long as it wasn't a rental, a 2013 will still be under warranty, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The drivetrains on these have always been reliable, the rest of the car wasn't great but generally the problems weren't hugely expensive or likely to strand you - i.e. the sunroof seems to be a source of a lot of issues, get one without the sunroof and you'll avoid most of them.The quality has been getting better once the 2013 rolled around according to the stats.

If that's the style of vehicle you are looking for you could also consider a Hyundai Genesis from the same era, it will have more warranty coverage if you are concerned about it. I think they look kind of bland styling wise but they are a match for or better than the Chrysler in every other respect. Pricing is about the same.

Are there other comparable large sedans? I'll look into the Genesis but as far as I've seen, the 2015 is the only one I like in terms of styling. I've been told the redesigned Impala isn't too bad but it's front-wheel drive, which isn't really a big deal for me. Price tag and MPG aren't a concern really, most used cars from 2011-2014 are decently affordable for me.

e:Actually the 2013 Genesis exterior is pretty okay.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

PsychicToaster posted:

Are there other comparable large sedans? I'll look into the Genesis but as far as I've seen, the 2015 is the only one I like in terms of styling. I've been told the redesigned Impala isn't too bad but it's front-wheel drive, which isn't really a big deal for me. Price tag and MPG aren't a concern really, most used cars from 2011-2014 are decently affordable for me.

e:Actually the 2013 Genesis exterior is pretty okay.

I really like the Impala when I sat in one, the interior aethsetic at least on the LTZ is better than the Chrysler's IMO and it looks nice from the outside too. Have not driven one but I would guess it probably drives like a FWD sedan? :downs: The new Impala is a 2014 though, and they haven't really sold that many of them compared to the Chrysler - GM was going for higher transaction prices over volume, so your choices might be more limited.

Other comparable large sedans -

- Toyota Avalon: Really like the interior, probably the best of the non-premium brands IMO. Exterior is a bit odd.
- Lexus ES: Mechanically identical to the Avalon but I dig the Lexus interior more, could be worth considering depending on how much extra money the seller wants. The prices when new weren't that much more than the Avalon.
- Buick Lacross: Mechanically identical to the Impala (only notable difference is that the Buick can be had with AWD) but I like the Impala more inside and out. The seats on the Buick apparently were designed for the Chinese market and are strangely snug for such a large car.
- Dodge Charger: Presumably you already know it exists.
- Ford Taurus/Lincoln MKS: Skipdogg owns one so he could tell you more about it than me, it's an older car at this point and the interior ergonomics are a bit strange. The SHO is really fast.
- Hyundai Azera: I like the interior, looks Ok from the outside, apparently the V6 engine isn't the best and the ride is a bit harsh.
- Kia Cadenza: I don't really like KIA interiors.
- Nissan Maxima: Never been in one. No one buys them anyway. By all accounts not worth the extra money over the Altima.

PsychicToaster
Jan 12, 2010

Throatwarbler posted:

I really like the Impala when I sat in one, the interior aethsetic at least on the LTZ is better than the Chrysler's IMO and it looks nice from the outside too. Have not driven one but I would guess it probably drives like a FWD sedan? :downs: The new Impala is a 2014 though, and they haven't really sold that many of them compared to the Chrysler - GM was going for higher transaction prices over volume, so your choices might be more limited.

Other comparable large sedans -

- Toyota Avalon: Really like the interior, probably the best of the non-premium brands IMO. Exterior is a bit odd.
- Lexus ES: Mechanically identical to the Avalon but I dig the Lexus interior more, could be worth considering depending on how much extra money the seller wants. The prices when new weren't that much more than the Avalon.
- Buick Lacross: Mechanically identical to the Impala (only notable difference is that the Buick can be had with AWD) but I like the Impala more inside and out. The seats on the Buick apparently were designed for the Chinese market and are strangely snug for such a large car.
- Dodge Charger: Presumably you already know it exists.
- Ford Taurus/Lincoln MKS: Skipdogg owns one so he could tell you more about it than me, it's an older car at this point and the interior ergonomics are a bit strange. The SHO is really fast.
- Hyundai Azera: I like the interior, looks Ok from the outside, apparently the V6 engine isn't the best and the ride is a bit harsh.
- Kia Cadenza: I don't really like KIA interiors.
- Nissan Maxima: Never been in one. No one buys them anyway. By all accounts not worth the extra money over the Altima.

Thanks for the response, I'll have to look into some of these. Definitely agree with you on the KIA. I've never liked them, interior and exterior.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Guni posted:

Hey goons, is there anything mechanically or otherwise (with the exception of being boring to drive) wrong with automatic Mazda 2's of the 2008-2010 vintage?

4sp auto with 100hp is pretty tragic from an acceleration standpoint.

Pympede
Jun 17, 2005
What about the other side of this equation - selling your current car? Anybody have any advice for selling a car on craigslist?

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005

Pympede posted:

What about the other side of this equation - selling your current car? Anybody have any advice for selling a car on craigslist?

Avoid the obvious Nigerian scams. Have good photos and clean your car ahead of time. Have the mileage written down. Meet in a public place where other people are around. Price it 20% higher because Craigslist people love haggling. It's pretty easy/ no-brainer.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Proposed Budget: $3k or less
New or Used: Used obv
Body Style: Looking for a compact or thereabouts. Gone through 2 Del Sols and an MR2 in the last 15 years, love 2 seaters.
How will you be using the car?: I commute 30 miles each way twice a week. Other than that, I work from home and would only need something to get me to like, the laudromat or movie theater.
Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? Nah. Just an a->b thing that operates on my schedule.
What aspects are most important to you? price, size (smaller -> better), reliability (or as much reliability as $3k or less can get you)

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Pympede posted:

What about the other side of this equation - selling your current car? Anybody have any advice for selling a car on craigslist?

Have a sense of humor when people try to trade you for a !microwave, a broken bike, and a 6 pack.

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

nm posted:

microwave, a broken bike, and a 6 pack.

SOLD!

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.


Sucker. You can usually talk them up to a 30 pack if you're a good negotiator.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Grumpwagon posted:

Sucker. You can usually talk them up to a 30 pack if you're a good negotiator.

In my experience you don't want the kind of beer that comes in a 30-pack.

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

Everblight posted:

In my experience you don't want the kind of beer that comes in a 30-pack.

I drink only the finest Milwaukee's Best Ice.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005

TheReverend posted:

Proposed Budget: Under 10K Hopefully under 5K
New or Used: Used
Body Style: Pickup Truck.
How will you be using the car?: I would be towing a 14' trailer on weekends. Most likely within my city but maybe on occasion up to 100 miles. It could have up to 1000 lbs of equipment in it so the towing capacity should be at least 3000 lbs. I would ideally like it to be a little more than that just for safety and in case I need to put a little extra in it. This isn't a daily driver or anything like that so it can be ugly as sin I guess I'm just looking for a powerful,reliable, and cheap pickup truck.

If it's even possible....

So I'm looking at an 04 Avalanche . 138K miles for $6800. Please share your opinions.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

TheReverend posted:

So I'm looking at an 04 Avalanche . 138K miles for $6800. Please share your opinions.

Seems like a tolerable price but I would certainly try to find a half ton V8 in the cheapest possible trim level. They should be everywhere.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005

I guess I forgot to mention that my "New Plan (R)(TM)" would involve me giving my wife my sedan and this "nicer than I was looking for" truck would be my main vehicle too (instead of having 2 regular use vehicles and a third occasional use one).

The good news is that my commute is not everyday nor far so hopefully it won't be too much of a hit for the increased gasoline use.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
I'd get a nicer half-ton then. I'm personally not a fan of the Avalanche as the bed is kind of useless.

You might actually do better with a SUV, depending on what type of stuff you are planning to put in the bed. Suburbans and the like are cheap and with gas prices going back up, morons everywhere are selling them again.

Saxophone
Sep 19, 2006


What would be a decent price for a 2015 Corolla S-plus? MSRP had it sitting in the 20k range and there's a 2k rebate through the end of may.

Edit: money

Saxophone fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 26, 2015

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

You might actually do better with a SUV, depending on what type of stuff you are planning to put in the bed. Suburbans and the like are cheap and with gas prices going back up, morons everywhere are selling them again.

I thought I just read that gas would going to keep getting cheaper all summer because of a surplus of refined fuel or some such.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

IRQ posted:

I thought I just read that gas would going to keep getting cheaper all summer because of a surplus of refined fuel or some such.

I dunno, at least in my recent travels it's bounced back up about 20-30% from a low in January/February.

Leroy Diplowski
Aug 25, 2005

The Candyman Can :science:

Visit My Candy Shop

And SA Mart Thread
I'm thinking of picking up a 2005-2009 Mazda5 to use as a company car for local deliveries etc. The thing is: I will probably be looking to flip it sometime around tax season 2016.

Would picking up a manual car be an asset or a liability when I am trying to flip this down the road?

I know the answer to that question for some makes/models, but I don't know much about Mazda people.

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Assuming you're in the US, just get an automatic.

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert

Throatwarbler posted:

- Ford Taurus/Lincoln MKS: Skipdogg owns one so he could tell you more about it than me, it's an older car at this point and the interior ergonomics are a bit strange. The SHO is really fast.

Generally I would tell people at this point to avoid the Ford Taurus. It's not a bad car, there really aren't many bad cars being made anymore, other cars in the segment are just better cars.

Here are my thoughts on the Ford Taurus after owning it for a little more than a year. I would like to say upfront that I'm partial to Ford at this moment in time. I don't consider myself a fanboy, but I have enjoyed their recent cars. Every car I've bought in the last 7 years has been a Ford. I think they are offering a good overall value and I happen to like their current styling and even the Sync system. I'm not opposed to other makes, my wife almost got an Acura MDX 20 months ago, but the Ford was the better value and she liked the styling more. Before my run of Ford's I owned vehicles made by Dodge, Nissan, and Honda.



That being said, I do like my Taurus SHO, mostly because of what is under the hood. I really didn't want a full size car, I still don't, but Ford isn't making a Sport/ST/SHO version of the Fusion, and I wanted something faster than my old 2011 Fusion Sport was. The SHO fit the bill, and depreciated faster than a used engagement ring. I also like that it's all just Ford parts bin stuff, no special maintenance requirements, 200 dollar oil changes, or 1000 dollar brake jobs.

The Taurus drives me nuts in 1 place though, the interior. It's very small for a full size car, my last gen Fusion felt like it had more interior room. I haven't seen a trunk as big since an old Town Car, but the interior is just poorly done and feels cramped. The next Taurus should fix this.

I could go on and on about the car. I own one because it was a great value and I like Ford's products. Most people would probably buy a Hemi Charger in the segment, but they were a little more than I wanted to spend. I got a smoking deal on the SHO thanks to it's terrible depreciation rate. Tauruses in other trims are only worth looking at if your on a strict budget, then they become a value play. I've seen some Limited trim Tauruses go for really low prices lately. The car is pretty solid, just the other cars in the segment are better.

Now, if I was shopping for a full size sedan and didn't care about the go fast goodies the Toyota Avalon would probably be at the top of my list. They hold their value pretty well and do full size sedan things very well.

I wish I know more about the new Impala though, the first time I saw one I did a triple take and didn't know what the hell it was. It was a very sharp looking car, and if GM got their poo poo together (doubtful) it could be a great car.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Leroy Diplowski posted:

I'm thinking of picking up a 2005-2009 Mazda5 to use as a company car for local deliveries etc. The thing is: I will probably be looking to flip it sometime around tax season 2016.

Would picking up a manual car be an asset or a liability when I am trying to flip this down the road?

I know the answer to that question for some makes/models, but I don't know much about Mazda people.

The deal with manuals is this. If the car is rare or desirable to people, the manual will increase the value to the right buyer. See the G8 GXP, legacy GT wagon and so on. You may have to hold out longer to get that price.
On something average, it won't help the price and unless you're willing to hang on to it a long time to get the right price, you may need to discount it to sell.

If a Mazda 6 one of those cars? Maybe a wagon because wagon people are kinda weird. If they made a manual v6 wagon, I could see some weird corner on the internet going apeshit over than. A 4 banger sedan? Unlikely.

Leroy Diplowski
Aug 25, 2005

The Candyman Can :science:

Visit My Candy Shop

And SA Mart Thread
The mazda5 like the only minivan ever offered with a stick shift in the US. Mazda did make a manual v6 Mazda6 wagon. They're actually pretty common. Prices seem in line with the auto version.

That said, the 5 speed that I was eyeing just sold. Going to check out a slushbox car tonight.

FAGGY CLAUSE
Apr 9, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Proposed Budget: 6k or under
New or Used: Used
Body Style: compact, or hatchback
How will you be using the car? I live in a city and don't need a car for commuting. I just want something I can park on the street, not worry about much, and can use to haul my mountain bikes / kayaks around with on the weekend. It doesn't have to be a comfortable car. My primary considerations are low cost, decent MPG, and reliability / can easily work on the car myself. Just looking for a few suggestions for cheap models, year ranges to consider, that are known to be reliable.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Leroy Diplowski posted:

The mazda5 like the only minivan ever offered with a stick shift in the US. Mazda did make a manual v6 Mazda6 wagon. They're actually pretty common. Prices seem in line with the auto version.

That said, the 5 speed that I was eyeing just sold. Going to check out a slushbox car tonight.

You're buying this for your business, right? Don't businesses often buy or lease a new vehicle, because you can write down the depreciation? You still have to actually pay for it though, but then again, you're only going to own it for two years, maybe a business lease is the right way to go.

Also does it have to have the seating of a minivan? Maybe you'd rather have like a Ford Transit.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
Hey Goons.

So, I'm interviewing for my first job as a college grad tomorrow. I have no debt, and a highly marketable degree (or so they tell me) in Nursing.

Assuming that I
A. Get the job
B. Pass boards (ohgodplease)

I desperately need to replace my lovely '97 Sebring. It's leaking oil so bad that the mechanic suggested that I keep a small fire extinguisher in the car.

So...

Proposed Budget: It's going to require a loan no matter what, so this is somewhat flexible. Probably nothing above $35,000.

New or Used: New or good used. I want something that is going to last a while.

Body Style: Mostly interested in 4 door sedans. Hatchbacks are alright. Probably no trucks or SUVs unless you have a really good suggestion.

How will you be using the car?: I'll have a commute of like 60-90 minutes (each way) on interstate roads almost the entire time.

Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? I like gadgets. An AUX input or Bluetooth for media are pretty much a must have.

What aspects are most important to you? I'm interested in learning to drive a stick shift, but I'm willing to drop that if it means a better general vehicle. Gas mileage will be a big deal. I'm not a huge fan of American cars after the horror of the Sebring, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I kinda feel like this shouldn't be a priority, but I would really like a car that's fun to drive, and that I can be proud of. I've only ever driven cheap lovely cars, that I mostly just hated. I'd really like that to change.

Suggestions friends have made: Volvo, VW, Honda, Toyota.

Annath fucked around with this message at 01:07 on May 28, 2015

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Annath posted:

Hey Goons.

So, I'm interviewing for my first job as a college grad tomorrow. I have no debt, and a highly marketable degree (or so they tell me) in Nursing.

Assuming that I
A. Get the job
B. Pass boards (ohgodplease)

I desperately need to replace my lovely '97 Sebring. It's leaking oil so bad that the mechanic suggested that I keep a small fire extinguisher in the car.

So...

Proposed Budget: It's going to require a loan no matter what, so this is somewhat flexible. Probably nothing above $35,000.

New or Used: New or good used. I want something that is going to last a while.

Body Style: Mostly interested in 4 door sedans. Hatchbacks are alright. Probably no trucks or SUVs unless you have a really good suggestion.

How will you be using the car?: I'll have a commute of like 60-90 minutes (each way) on interstate roads almost the entire time.

Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos? I like gadgets. An AUX input or Bluetooth for media are pretty much a must have.

What aspects are most important to you? I'm interested in learning to drive a stick shift, but I'm willing to drop that if it means a better general vehicle. Gas mileage will be a big deal. I'm not a huge fan of American cars after the horror of the Sebring, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

I kinda feel like this shouldn't be a priority, but I would really like a car that's fun to drive, and that I can be proud of. I've only ever driven cheap lovely cars, that I mostly just hated. I'd really like that to change.

Suggestions friends have made: Volvo, VW, Honda, Toyota.

35k is a ton to take out as a fresh graduate with presumably no savings and a brand new job. From that perspective...

For your wants, there is always the standard Prius recommendation, but they are as boring as they are rock solid. If you want something fun to drive, that comes in stick, and since you're doing far more highway miles than city a Prius loses some MPG appeal, you should look at a Mazda3. They get good mileage, are small, affordable, reliable, and an absolute joy to drive.

Or be less responsible and buy a WRX or something. Up to you!

Who said Volvo? Good god.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

IRQ posted:

35k is a ton to take out as a fresh graduate with presumably no savings and a brand new job. From that perspective...

For your wants, there is always the standard Prius recommendation, but they are as boring as they are rock solid. If you want something fun to drive, that comes in stick, and since you're doing far more highway miles than city a Prius loses some MPG appeal, you should look at a Mazda3. They get good mileage, are small, affordable, reliable, and an absolute joy to drive.

Or be less responsible and buy a WRX or something. Up to you!

Who said Volvo? Good god.

Volvo was suggested by a well meaning friend whose family buys them.

I mean they're reliable, right?

How's the Subaru's reliability?

Annath fucked around with this message at 02:02 on May 28, 2015

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Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

Annath posted:

Suggestions friends have made: Volvo, VW, Honda, Toyota.

I don't think there's really a bad four door sedan you should avoid. A VW might not be the most reliable, but a GLI Jetta would be fun to drive in exchange for fuel economy. A less tricked out model would still be nice inside, or you can jump up to a Passat.

Mazda6's are a little less sporty than a GLI, but still fun to toss around, comfortable on the interstate, good highway mileage, and start in the low $20s.

Don't discount the Koreans as Kia and Hyundai make great cars with tons of toys for great value, though would be more sedate to drive.

Edit: You can get a lot of really good cars for under $25k, especially compared to a Sebring.

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