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Gridlocked posted:That is a pretty amazing post. Just out of curiosity, why did you assume WWM was a cop in your flowchart?
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# ? May 27, 2015 15:59 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:02 |
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The only way I can see Shanakin being scum are: a) He is way better at forum traitor games then he is at table top ones. b) He is scum and he basically said everyone else can look after the night actions and he is just gonna play like a townie; which I wouldn't put past him as that is what I would do if I were in his position.
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:00 |
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QuoProQuid posted:Just out of curiosity, why did you assume WWM was a cop in your flowchart? Ok well first we figured if there are 3 coins in the fluff there must be 3 scum players, assuming the coins are EEEEEEVIIIILLLLL (pretty much confirmed by fluff so far). Ergo there must be at least 3 "good guys" to break even; however when Grandi died and flipped Naive Cop we figured there had to be at least 1 more "good guy" because we hadn't lost the game yet. Ergo there must be 1 other scum in addition to the 3rd coin; or potentially a 3rd party (3rd party was where thinking you guys were evil cultists came from). Also because we read the wiki and poo poo we noticed that Naive Cops generally only appear alongside a proper Cop, it is very uncommon for them to be the lone one in a game. Because WWM came out and said he could claim for both yourself and DGK; we looked at his voted history and figured with 2 claims and 2 nights he could have investigated twice. First night was you because he wanted to lynch DGK on the 2nd day. I therefore reasoned he must have investigated DGK on the 2nd night in order to check if he was what Grandi checked him to be, considering Grandi flipped Naive and that DGK was fairly adamant in his own innocence perhaps he wanted to know for sure. In retrospect the fact the DGK knew someone else would confirm he was town before WWM posted showed more knowledge then faith in a 2nd cop coming to save him. We thought Cult but Shankin suggested the game maybe too small for a cult, so we decided that of the two cop was more likely and DGK was just practised enough to know someone would save him. We ended up putting cult/masons in because it was the only way WWM could confirm 2 people without investigating on two nights. Also we considered that maybe WWM thought there was only 1 scum left, and therefore didn't care if he revealed himself because he assumed we would all lynch the bad guy and win before he got shanked on night 3. We figured WWM was counting on me bandwagoning on to his lynch vote because everyone in this thread has more or less suggested all I do is bandwagon to the most recent post; and that I would drag Shanakin with me because people have suggested all he does is vote for who I tell him to.
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:14 |
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Also we didn't consider that maybe you were only allowed 3 people which is why recruit is listed a few times.
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:16 |
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Anyway now I have stayed up for an extra 40min and am super tired. I reckon out flowchart is pretty decent though.
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# ? May 27, 2015 16:17 |
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That flow chart is pretty bad
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# ? May 27, 2015 17:10 |
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Gridlocked posted:Ok well first we figured if there are 3 coins in the fluff there must be 3 scum players, assuming the coins are EEEEEEVIIIILLLLL (pretty much confirmed by fluff so far). Ergo there must be at least 3 "good guys" to break even; however when Grandi died and flipped Naive Cop we figured there had to be at least 1 more "good guy" because we hadn't lost the game yet. Ergo there must be 1 other scum in addition to the 3rd coin; or potentially a 3rd party (3rd party was where thinking you guys were evil cultists came from). Also because we read the wiki and poo poo we noticed that Naive Cops generally only appear alongside a proper Cop, it is very uncommon for them to be the lone one in a game. First part, flavor text pretty much never gives away the games setup. 2. I have played in so many different game setups that I can really only assume the game has vanillas in it, ever. 3. Shanakin suggesting the game size RE: Cult is kinda suspicious. There have been other games this size with cults in them. We generally dont use cults in games this size because it's a lovely thing to do. 4. I dont know if I need more coffee to figure out the rest of what you wrote.
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# ? May 27, 2015 18:01 |
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Dead Cow posted:That flow chart is pretty bad Your criticism is useful and constructive. No really. DGK2000 posted:First part, flavor text pretty much never gives away the games setup. I wrote that at 1am while falling asleep in my chair, I wasn't exactly in a good explanation writing state of being.
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# ? May 28, 2015 00:59 |
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^ So don't worry, you picked out the main meta assumptions I was making and have said why I can't make those kind of things. I guess I'm still focusing too much on knowledge and assumptions of the way the game works and not the content of people's posts. Anyway to get back on track: DGK, you haven't cast a vote yet. I honestly thought you would join DC and QPQ lynching Shanakin but you haven't; so I assume you aren't sure if the right choice is him or Quandary. What are your thoughts on the two of them?
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:18 |
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QuoProQuid posted:I'd like to give Shanakin a chance to give his final thoughts in the event that he has EARTH SHATTERING INFORMATION, but I've played through today several times in my head and there's not many ways this day can play out. In the improbable event that Shanakin doesn't flip scum I'll recruit Quandary tonight and we will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIoBrob3bjI. Dead Cow posted:I'm sorry wwm, you looked really bad for a bit. We're both still alive though? For a while anyway. I guess this reasoning just went over my head. QuoProQuid posted:Usually when a person is about to by lynched they: I am Semir, the Urchin. Diffchecker doesn't highlight anything special about my role PM against the standard townie. I'm gonna throw out a bunch of my thoughts at you all now. WHICH WAY MADNESS posted:There are 7 of us alive. Me, QPQ, and DGK are now confirmed town. Dead Cow, there is no way she would have ever, ever bussed bowmore like that for two solid days to the brink of her own lynch. She is effectively confirmed town in my eyes. That leaves Grid, Quandary and Myself. Quandary: I don't like him. He barely posts and when he does he's just playing up at me constantly. He never really commits to much if anything and feels like he's just blending in. QPQ has pretty much said all this already, and caught stuff I hadn't, so there's not much point in repeating it all beyond saying it's a good case. Griddead: Yesterday I would have said I couldn't imagine him as being scum - then as I was mulling over the thread and going to bed, I imagined him as being scum and at this point I wouldn't put it past him. He may be new to Mafia, but he's not new to games like this. In fact one of his favourite games is basically a small scale, real life version of Mafia, and he's pretty decent at it (although we don't play it much because no one else likes it that much). I'm still hesitant to point my finger at him, he's super enthusiastic about this game (hence flow charts and lots of posting), and definitely a bit clueless about the specific mechanics of the game, but stepping back and thinking over it, I would say being able to obscure his identity is well within his grasp. Especially with me taking up all the attention. Now he has been my most steadfast defender, which I am grateful for, but that itself also kind of raises suspicions in me. He's normally way more paranoid and in doing so he's keeping me in the spotlight. I'm not sure he's scum, but at this point I have to concede it as a possibility. His lack of paranoia also suggests to me he may have verified my identity as non-scum, which could be the case if he's scum, or he peaked at my PMs on my phone during Eurovision, which had plenty of chance to, by his own admission, but that kind of behaviour is very out of character for him, as he has deep respect for those kinds of boundaries in games, so I would doubt him doing so. Shanakin: Well I know I'm a simple townie. I thought of roleclaiming something more exotic to try and stave off lynching and to helpt the town by eating a night-killing, but I don't think anyone would buy it and it would risk exposing any remaining real things (as unlikely as they seem) in a counter claim. So I decided against it. I can see why people suspect me, but I've no idea how to resolve that. I've largely felt doomed if I do, doomed if I don't since the first night and just bumbled my way through the game since. Now going over the rest of you guys: QPQ: Honestly you've laid pretty low yourself. Better than Quandary I'd guess without post counting and there's more content to your posts, but I figured you seemed pretty lurky. Beyond that I can't find much objectionable about your posts beyond pointing at me all the time WWM: I kept flipping between cop and scum when I read your posts. I really don't know, but it definitely felt like you had more confidence in your knowledge than others. I guess I'm trusting you now. DGK: When the naive cop result came back, after effectively offing our doctor, I was immediately suspicious but after a while I came around to the idea you were just a townie when I started thinking back on the bombing and everything else. Dead Cow: hell I don't know. I've floated around between all kinds of positions, following all the posts against you, and then the posts for you, and back and forth. Mostly because, at least early on, they were some of the first, big convinving looking posts. Thinking back on it I never seemed to have developed my own opinion on you, even now this is kinda true. I did keep thinking you were trying to use me as a distraction, and have a vaguely suspicious feeling but as I said before I agree with the logic that you're a town member. Now there's one more post I want to make, running through some of my end game logic, before I get lynched, but I have to run some errands for an hour or so. This is better than nothing and if I get a chance I'll finish it off.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:25 |
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The flow chart is bad cause it doesn't include you, I don't think that you are scum but it would be the best scum game of your life
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:26 |
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Just quickly: I'm pretty sure quandary is scum and I'm not. If we do assume 4 to a side (+cultists whatever), then that would suggest another. I dunno if it's grid or one of you guys to be honest.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:27 |
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Just got home, looks like I'm -1. Let me shower and then I can read the thread closer and claim.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:32 |
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Dead Cow posted:The flow chart is bad cause it doesn't include you, I don't think that you are scum but it would be the best scum game of your life Why would I include myself on a flow chart I am using to determine my voting?
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:34 |
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I thought it was one you were working on with Shanakin Gridlocked posted:Why would I include myself on a flow chart I am using to determine my voting?
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:35 |
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Dead Cow posted:I thought it was one you were working on with Shanakin He was playing War Thunder while I was the one with word open making it while watching some Channel Fireball videos. I suppose from Shanakins point of view you could replace instances of his name with mine. Does my rough flowchart that I never really intended to post have to be perfect with names.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:38 |
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Gridlocked posted:^ So don't worry, you picked out the main meta assumptions I was making and have said why I can't make those kind of things. I guess I'm still focusing too much on knowledge and assumptions of the way the game works and not the content of people's posts. I'm phone posting to say when I get home tonight I will look at them and you and post my thoughts.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:41 |
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Gridlocked posted:He was playing War Thunder while I was the one with word open making it while watching some Channel Fireball videos. I suppose from Shanakins point of view you could replace instances of his name with mine. Does my rough flowchart that I never really intended to post have to be perfect with names. It does if it's gonna be not bad
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:41 |
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DGK2000 posted:I'm phone posting to say when I get home tonight I will look at them and you and post my thoughts. Coo. Dead Cow posted:It does if it's gonna be not bad
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:45 |
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Shanakin posted:Griddead: Yesterday I would have said I couldn't imagine him as being scum - then as I was mulling over the thread and going to bed, I imagined him as being scum and at this point I wouldn't put it past him. He may be new to Mafia, but he's not new to games like this. In fact one of his favourite games is basically a small scale, real life version of Mafia, and he's pretty decent at it (although we don't play it much because no one else likes it that much). I'm still hesitant to point my finger at him, he's super enthusiastic about this game (hence flow charts and lots of posting), and definitely a bit clueless about the specific mechanics of the game, but stepping back and thinking over it, I would say being able to obscure his identity is well within his grasp. Especially with me taking up all the attention. Now he has been my most steadfast defender, which I am grateful for, but that itself also kind of raises suspicions in me. He's normally way more paranoid and in doing so he's keeping me in the spotlight. I'm not sure he's scum, but at this point I have to concede it as a possibility. His lack of paranoia also suggests to me he may have verified my identity as non-scum, which could be the case if he's scum, or he peaked at my PMs on my phone during Eurovision, which had plenty of chance to, by his own admission, but that kind of behaviour is very out of character for him, as he has deep respect for those kinds of boundaries in games, so I would doubt him doing so. 1) Avalon is fun but we don't play it that much because a friend of ours is a dirty cheater and listens for chairs creaking and other such things, thus making it hard to enjoy as as soon as the game starts he goes "Heard your jacket russell when he said Evil put your thumbs up; you're evil. Everyone he's evil I heard him make noise." Also no one ever trusts me in board games anymore and names me as a traitor every time. This reputation has come from my willingness to backstab an ally in order to win for myself; a reputation that Shanakin can confirm I have. This means no one allys with me, trades with me or really follows any of my advice anymore because they all assume I am going to betray them right away. 2) Lots of posting comes from no Edit function. There would be lots less if only I could edit. 3) Defending you cause I trust you buddy. I'm pretty sure you're on the level and I am allowed to talk to you outside the game, so why not bounce ideas off you? As the flow chart says if I am wrong I'll buy you a drink. 4) I didn't read your PMs on your phone. I was too busy spamming vote buttons and saving copies of the webpage.
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# ? May 28, 2015 01:52 |
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I think you both are allowing your personal relationship with the other cloud your judgement of content in the thread. While such information might be useful to you both as supplementary material (meta), it comes off as a little obtuse to the other players who obviously don't have that experience and are unfamiliar with you. Though obvious, it should probably be restated that just because you trust the other in real life, that doesn't mean they are honest within the context of this game.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:00 |
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Alright, might as well claim since I'm pretty sure my role is worthless. My flavor name is Ezra Noor, and I'm a cop, though I'm fairly confident I'm a paranoid cop. My role pm also mentions that I grew up with a brother who I learned all my detective skills with so there may be other cops in the game, which is why I wasn't jumping up and down to attack Grandi day 2 when he claimed. N1 I investigated Shanakin and got a scum result, and N2 I investigated Grandi and got a scum result as well, but when he flipped town and naive, I realized I'm probably the paranoid counterpart to his role. The only way that wouldn't be true is if Grandi was hit by a mafia framer or something, but that seems unlikely and occams razor says I'm probably paranoid. This is also why I've been pushing Shanakin so hard, though obviously it's not trustworthy now. N1 I investigated Shanakin honestly because it was the first name to jump out to me - as you guys know I wasn't around D1 so I kinda picked a name out of a hat. N2 I investigated Grandi because despite what my pm said, there was no guarantee there was another cop or if there was about their alignment. Now that I can't trust my investigation on Shan, I need to go re-read. I trust the mason crew right now - if they were all scum that means we'd have at least 5 scum in 13 players (since 2 already flipped), which is ridiculous, so the only thing that's possible is that they're town. I need to go re-read DC, Gridlocked, and Shan to see where I think the last scum is.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:01 |
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QuoProQuid posted:I think you both are allowing your personal relationship with the other cloud your judgement of content in the thread. While such information might be useful to you both as supplementary material (meta), it comes off as a little obtuse to the other players who obviously don't have that experience and are unfamiliar with you. Though obvious, it should probably be restated that just because you trust the other in real life, that doesn't mean they are honest within the context of this game. This is very true really, I guess Shanakin has thought on it harder then I have. At first I considered that he could be scum but I decided against it due to meta reasons as you said. Guess I better go and re-read more of the thread so I'm not being a lazy bugger.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:09 |
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I would be beyond shocked and extremely impressed if Gridlocked was scum right now. Reading through his posts strikes exactly as unconcerned newbie town. Newbie scum overthink everything, and Gridlocked consistently posts things and asks questions that I think would never get on the page if they were thought about too hard. I completely agree with WWM's characteriziation as a 'cute little innocent lamb of a town'.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:27 |
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Quandary posted:Alright, might as well claim since I'm pretty sure my role is worthless. My flavor name is Ezra Noor, and I'm a cop, though I'm fairly confident I'm a paranoid cop. My role pm also mentions that I grew up with a brother who I learned all my detective skills with so there may be other cops in the game, which is why I wasn't jumping up and down to attack Grandi day 2 when he claimed. Well that explains where that comes from, but if you get night killed wont that probably end the game? Unless Masons count? I'm not used to that if so. Also you're definitely right about us. As I said before, I kind of wish we had not been given mason status with each other. I understand why it was done and certainly don't think it was unreasonable but I feel it has hindered us more than it helped. Gridlocked posted:1) Avalon is fun but we don't play it that much because a friend of ours is a dirty cheater and listens for chairs creaking and other such things, thus making it hard to enjoy as as soon as the game starts he goes "Heard your jacket russell when he said Evil put your thumbs up; you're evil. Everyone he's evil I heard him make noise." Also no one ever trusts me in board games anymore and names me as a traitor every time. This reputation has come from my willingness to backstab an ally in order to win for myself; a reputation that Shanakin can confirm I have. This means no one allys with me, trades with me or really follows any of my advice anymore because they all assume I am going to betray them right away. 1. Well there is that but if you ask people most of us don't actually like it. It doesn't work well with that few people. The rest doesn't seem to relevant here, where you're (mostly) a traitor from the start, or not. 2.that goes for all of us though, and you are having fun and are enthusiastic. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 3.As I said, it would be very out of character for you to cheat like that.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:28 |
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Shanakin posted:Well that explains where that comes from, but if you get night killed wont that probably end the game? Unless Masons count? I'm not used to that if so. Masons generally count as town, unless there's some weird alignment stuff which is possible because Ecco likes to do those things, but I think unlikely. Given the 3 coin flavor and the fact that as a general rule 13 player games have 3 scum, I think it's a reasonable assumption there is 1 scum left and are a few days away from LYLO still
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:31 |
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Quandary posted:I would be beyond shocked and extremely impressed if Gridlocked was scum right now. Reading through his posts strikes exactly as unconcerned newbie town. Newbie scum overthink everything, and Gridlocked consistently posts things and asks questions that I think would never get on the page if they were thought about too hard. I completely agree with WWM's characteriziation as a 'cute little innocent lamb of a town'. I don't think he is either, but when faced with the thought of "three good masons, myself, quand and grid" and I know myself to be good, it's something I have to consider, and I can't say is beyond realm of possibility. Likely he should be considering along similar lines. If he's a town, which I agree is probable, then that leaves one of the supposedly cleared guys.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:34 |
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From SA Mafia wiki posted:-Naive: Naive Cops are like normal cops, except that they always receive a "TOWN" result, even when investigating scum or millers. EccoRaven posted:Grandicap, Oza, Leader (town-aligned naive cop), was stabbed to death night 2. SETUP SPECULATION I don't know why, but I get this really comforting feeling at the idea of Q being a paranoid cop, when a naive cop has already flipped. Something about that perfect symmetry... ##unvote
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:35 |
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Quandary posted:Masons generally count as town, unless there's some weird alignment stuff which is possible because Ecco likes to do those things, but I think unlikely. Given the 3 coin flavor and the fact that as a general rule 13 player games have 3 scum, I think it's a reasonable assumption there is 1 scum left and are a few days away from LYLO still I've been thinking there's symmetry between Special Town and Scum, hence 4 a side. If it's only 3 then that makes things a lot easier.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:36 |
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##vote Shana Let's close it down folks.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:38 |
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I love how people are so condescending. So far the only person not to be was FV (not counting Shanakin) It's loving wonderful.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:46 |
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Gridlocked posted:I love how people are so condescending. So far the only person not to be was FV (not counting Shanakin) I... wasn't trying to be? Sorry if anyone took anything I said as condescension.
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:48 |
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I'm leaning towards Shan as well, but I can't decide if I think DC is ballsy enough to bus bowmore so hard. Something about the day 1 interactions between the two seems a little out there and makes me a little uncomfortable, but I don't know if DC would do that. DC is a mafia regular right?
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:49 |
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Gridlocked posted:I love how people are so condescending. So far the only person not to be was FV (not counting Shanakin) That's mafia for you
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:50 |
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Woah totally missed that Quandy is the cop and other suspect. I actually believe that claim for some reason which really does mean Grid or there's a scum Mason. Or Quandy is a liar and I'm an idiot. Either way, I'm sure there's more I could say, but I don't think any of it will be effective. I'm going to prove my innocence the only way I can think of. ##Vote Shanakin That should be a hammer folks (hey at least I finally achieved something).
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:51 |
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:54 |
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Shanakin posted:Woah totally missed that Quandy is the cop and other suspect. I actually believe that claim for some reason which really does mean Grid or there's a scum Mason. You crazy motherfucker. You've doomed us all!
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# ? May 28, 2015 02:55 |
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Poor Samir! Nobody trusted him, and so he died. Shanakin, Semir, Urchin (town-aligned vanilla), was executed day 3. Night actions!
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# ? May 28, 2015 03:34 |
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The night passed by quickly, but come morning, another urchin was dead. Michelos was a beloved older brother to the group; he was one of the oldest of the Talons, which made him very wise and trusted. To see him murdered like that - butchered, really - was heartbreaking. WHICH WAY MADNESS, Michelos Cuneyt, Big Brother (town-aligned mason recruiter), was stabbed to death night 3. It is now Day 4. 5 alive, 3 to execute. Day 4 deadline: Thursday, May 28th, ~11PM EDT.
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# ? May 28, 2015 04:31 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 14:02 |
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The Current Day 4 Votecount Not Voting (5): Dead Cow, DGK2000, Gridlocked, QuoProQuid, Shanakin With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to be executed. The current deadline is May 28th, 2015 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 23 hours, 27 minutes.
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# ? May 28, 2015 04:32 |