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I know our company uses an automated service that only confirms that you worked here, what your dates of employment were, and what your official job title was. I believe giving anything else out is illegal.
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May 28, 2015 19:32
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psydude posted:I know our company uses an automated service that only confirms that you worked here, what your dates of employment were, and what your official job title was. I believe giving anything else out is illegal. It's not illegal, but it opens you up for lawsuits and what not.
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May 28, 2015 19:37
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Bigass Moth posted:Giving your salary out is a great way to be lowballed and there is no benefit unless you are so in demand that you get to name your price anyway. Being on the job market is basically sales. You need to have an elevator pitch, and you need to be able to distill what you can offer down to the relevant points for whoever you're talking to. This is honestly more important than actual technical competence.
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May 28, 2015 19:41
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Vulture Culture posted:Dirty secret: there are a lot of skills out there where having any experience with them at all, and any ability to speak competently about them at all, makes you so in demand that you get to name your price. If you're posting here, you're probably one of them. One weird trick to a huge payday: you won't believe what this goon did l@@k#!!
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May 28, 2015 19:44
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Bigass Moth posted:One weird trick to a huge payday: you won't believe what this goon did l@@k#!!
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May 28, 2015 19:47
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You're basically saying if you have in-depth technical knowledge and the experience to demonstrate it that you can hold out for the offer you want. I agree with that. However you also have to start somewhere and gain that experience, which is where keeping your salary history secret is important in not getting fuckedby a penny pinching hr goon.
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May 28, 2015 19:52
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Bigass Moth posted:You're basically saying if you have in-depth technical knowledge and the experience to demonstrate it that you can hold out for the offer you want. I agree with that. However you also have to start somewhere and gain that experience, which is where keeping your salary history secret is important in not getting fuckedby a penny pinching hr goon.
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May 28, 2015 20:20
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Guys, we are all friends! I'm just waiting for the lawsuit or whatever to be over so we can hear from the dude who's boss threatened him with banishment/stoning/death if he left
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May 28, 2015 20:30
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Oh thank god. A new sheriff has been changing a whole bunch of stuff around here and my contract was suddenly not going to be renewed in 2 weeks. Found out today that it's extended til Feb 28th 2016 so I have time to finish up certs and get out of here on my own time instead of being worried how I was going to pay bills after June. Not quite yotj but I'll take it for now.
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May 28, 2015 20:48
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Dark Helmut posted:One girl HR shop at his previous employer. I am not a lawyer, but I don't think it's illegal here in VA to verify things like that. I don't think the company was obligated to tell, but they did. The way I've been phrasing it with recruiters in my current YotJ search is that I'm not looking for a lateral move, but if I do, I'd like the salary to be a better reflection of the fact that a VCP with my MCSAs should net the low $90k base range, which is not what I'm getting now, but if it's a worse commute/benefits/etc. I'd be looking for more than that. I wouldn't do a Manhattan commute for less than six figures at this point, given the transit/parking @ train station cost + longer commute reflects that differential and then some. I usually do disclose my salary to the recruiter with the stipulation that neither they nor I disclose to the client, and that's been OK so far. If the client asks, I've held out at "I'd like something that reflects the responsibilities and the abilities that I can bring to the table that's competitive for the market" which then gets followed up with "I understand that you want to know what my requirements are, but I'm interested in the range you're looking to fill." If those don't get me anything I go on "I appreciate that you want to know in order to ascertain the role but I don't intend to disclose my salary - in all honesty, that leads to a low-bidder situation, and that has brought less-than-competent talent into other companies where I've been. I would like to know that my efforts are worth what I bring to the table, but again, I don't intend to disclose my salary." So far that hasn't worked and after that I make a judgment call based on the position. The first two or three times, twice had me giving desired $ amount plus a little more. This got me past the HR filter and submitted but not called back. The third time they said we couldn't proceed and I said goodbye. They were jobs that I was curious about but not so much Interested In, but I keep feeling like there's gotta be a better way to hold out and have them name numbers.
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May 28, 2015 20:49
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I signed an NDA about my salary, so cannot discuss it. It really doesn't matter that the NDA is on the back on an envelope on my desk at home, I still signed one, and that should be the end of the conversation.
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May 28, 2015 21:12
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RFC2324 posted:I signed an NDA about my salary, so cannot discuss it.
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May 28, 2015 21:37
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3 week trip report I work in a really nice office with good coworkers. My boss has so far supported me when I got pushback from other departments. I'm getting adequate training. Its almost all tickets investigating bugs in their software and maybe 2 calls a day per person. I picked a good first job to get into the IT field with based on the horror stories in this thread. Also I can leave when my shift is done and I've been told that they respect that people go home and have a family life. Once every 6 weeks I'm on call and I get overtime for every minute I go over 40 hours. eonwe fucked around with this message at 21:45 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 21:42
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Vulture Culture posted:If you're American, this is probably illegal under Sections 7-8 of the National Labor Relations Act. Of course, that's not an argument any recruiter wants to have. Doesn't that only protect discussing it with your co-workers? I worded it so that it was discussing it with anyone outside my company. Also, since its not a document my employers actually asked me to sign(I literally wrote it up on the back of an envelope 5 minutes before going to an interview with another company) I am 100% free to ignore it if I want to. It just gives me an out with a recruiter who wants my current salary. We are underpaid here based on the state data about sysadmin wages, tho the relatively relaxed environment somewhat makes up for that, so I wanted to protect myself against lowball offers based on my current income.
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May 28, 2015 21:46
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Inspector_666 posted:ITOaaS just seems like a new, buzzwordier way to describe an MSP? That was my thought. It's not what we need at all right now, considering we just are looking at basic monitoring offerings.
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May 28, 2015 22:18
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If it doesn't rhyme with PaaS, SaaS, IaaS (pronounced rear end) I'm not interested.
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May 28, 2015 23:40
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Roargasm posted:If it doesn't rhyme with PaaS, SaaS, IaaS (pronounced rear end) I'm not interested. GaaS, GRaaS, or IaaS Nobody ITs for free
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May 29, 2015 00:37
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Bigass Moth posted:You're basically saying if you have in-depth technical knowledge and the experience to demonstrate it that you can hold out for the offer you want. I agree with that. However you also have to start somewhere and gain that experience, which is where keeping your salary history secret is important in not getting fuckedby a penny pinching hr goon. I'm not following VC's first bit but I think he's saying that you need to explain what you're good at and what you're not so good at that goes beyond "I don't know" and is more so "I'm not well versed in X but do know Y and think Z." RFC2324 posted:Doesn't that only protect discussing it with your co-workers? I worded it so that it was discussing it with anyone outside my company. It's not illegal to share your salary but I wouldn't start sharing with my co-workers what I'm compensated during lunch. When it comes to recruiters I don't give my current salary only the range of what I need to jump depending on benefits.
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May 29, 2015 00:49
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Sharing your salary with co-workers is a great way in certain states to get fired for 'performance' issues
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May 29, 2015 01:00
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Tab8715 posted:I'm not following VC's first bit but I think he's saying that you need to explain what you're good at and what you're not so good at that goes beyond "I don't know" and is more so "I'm not well versed in X but do know Y and think Z." It also means that simply being aware of trends in the industry and being able to talk cogently about configuration management or containerization or cloud or caching key/value stores goes a long way, even if you've never actually used what you're talking about. It's sometimes hard to get experience at a current position, but being aware of what's best practice (or emerging best practice) catches eyes and says "I know what's happening in the industry".
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May 29, 2015 01:42
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evol262 posted:It also means that simply being aware of trends in the industry and being able to talk cogently about configuration management or containerization or cloud or caching key/value stores goes a long way, even if you've never actually used what you're talking about. That, and there's a ton of demand for above entry-level IT workers and not nearly enough talent. If you're able to come off professionally and have even a minimum of experience, you can almost certainly find a decent job.
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May 29, 2015 02:00
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RFC2324 posted:Doesn't that only protect discussing it with your co-workers? I worded it so that it was discussing it with anyone outside my company.
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May 29, 2015 02:38
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I don't see the benefit of salary chat with co-workers. Seems like a good way to sow resentment in one direction or the other. I did it once kind-of by accident when I was a new hire and found out I was making a fair bit more than the other guys who had been there for quite awhile.
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May 29, 2015 03:48
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The only reason that chatting about salary with co-workers causes problems is because it's frowned upon. If everyone was 100% open it wouldn't be a problem and everyone would be making more.
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May 29, 2015 03:54
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I threw this out in IRC tonight and got conflicting responses, so I'll toss it here: How receptive have companies with established PTO accrual policies been to increasing PTO rates through negotiation in lieu of salary negotiation? I'm really trying to make this contractor position hold out for another year so I can work on getting picked up federal, but if I can't get them to break on either salary or PTO (120 hrs total a year is too low to the point where I feel my Health Insurance is mostly wasted since I can't even find time to see a doctor), I'll need to start looking for something new sooner, rather than later.
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May 29, 2015 03:57
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I wouldn't discuss salary because all it takes it someone to run to management crying that Tom makes more than Bob and that's unfair!  As for PTO if it's a government position they might not be able to budge with compensation however if it's commercial I've seen a lot of senior employees negotiate and get 4 or even 5 weeks a year. I can't comment on sabbatical but I've heard distinguished individuals taking entire seasons of to spend time in their favorite tropical island.
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May 29, 2015 04:19
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Colonial Air Force posted:GaaS, GRaaS, or IaaS 
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May 29, 2015 04:36
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I have discussed salary with coworkers though it was always so when reviews came up they knew if they were getting hosed or not.
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May 29, 2015 05:25
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Toshimo posted:I threw this out in IRC tonight and got conflicting responses, so I'll toss it here: Angle for personal time instead. As a contractor renegotiating, you're unlikely to get much of a break. That said, 3 weeks PTO is already better than you'll get at some places. Not finding the time to see a doctor is probably not related to you not being able to spend PTO unless you expect to spend an hour at the doctor once a month.
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May 29, 2015 05:56
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jim truds posted:I have discussed salary with coworkers though it was always so when reviews came up they knew if they were getting hosed or not. It's very rare even in the UK, but I'm extremely happy that where I work has standard pay scales — each job is assigned a grade based on its job description, and each grade has 4-8 'normal' points within it and 2-3 'bonus' points. You start at the base (unless it's a lateral move, where you start at the point you're already on) go up one point each year, and if you do particularly good or are at the top normal point you can get a 'bonus' point (which lets you skip a grade and end up at one of the bonus points). When you get to the very top, you're left trying to do things that go above and beyond in order to get a bonus point, which has to be assessed by management. The grades of each position are public, so if you know someone's job and how long they've been in post you know to within a very small range what they're making. I wish more places had a system like that.
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May 29, 2015 09:22
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I've been applying over the spring to a major tech company's UK headquarters as a software engineer. Today I got a call saying I passed the technical interview but I have a 30-minute HR interview on Monday. This is my first job application for a graduate-level position, what should I expect?
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May 29, 2015 14:05
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Unless you say something really stupid you're probably in. It'll likely be the standard HR bullshit: "Why do you want this job?" (I need to pay my bills is not a good answer) "Tell me about a time you dealt with a difficult situation" "Tell me your 3 biggest weaknesses" It might aswell be a 30 minute examination on "how convincingly can you spin me some bullshit?"
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May 29, 2015 14:42
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evol262 posted:That said, 3 weeks PTO is already better than you'll get at some places. Not finding the time to see a doctor is probably not related to you not being able to spend PTO unless you expect to spend an hour at the doctor once a month. 3 weeks PTO is the bare bones standard in the US. Also, finding doctor time isn't just a matter of teleporting to the doctor - he's gotta get there, and I'm guessing government contractors go solely by hours. Leave at 3 to see the doctor, don't get paid until 5. If you have further medical stuff, you lose even more time. Edit: I just realized something. With no helpdesk guy, it's just me and my boss. He's management, I'm labor. I wonder if this means I could unionize. It'd be 100% turnout and 100% in favor. MJP fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 15:37
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MJP posted:3 weeks PTO is the bare bones standard in the US. Also, finding doctor time isn't just a matter of teleporting to the doctor - he's gotta get there, and I'm guessing government contractors go solely by hours. Leave at 3 to see the doctor, don't get paid until 5. If you have further medical stuff, you lose even more time. 3 weeks is not the bare bones standard in the US. 
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May 29, 2015 15:40
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GOOCHY posted:I don't see the benefit of salary chat with co-workers. Seems like a good way to sow resentment in one direction or the other. I did it once kind-of by accident when I was a new hire and found out I was making a fair bit more than the other guys who had been there for quite awhile. That's the problem, and those guys, event though may do the same job as you probably won't ever get a raise to make the gap smaller. On a much tinier scale, at the call center I used to work at, when I started, I got $15 an hour. People two years prior than that got $14. I heard people after me were getting $15.50 to start. Do you think the people who started prior to the starting wage increases got raises to match? Nope.
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May 29, 2015 15:47
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Sickening posted:3 weeks is not the bare bones standard in the US. I've never had an offer or a position without at least 15 days - "3 weeks" in working weeks terms. Some places bank it as PTO for everything, so congratulations if you get sick for three weeks, enjoy no vacation that year. Others space it out. I've only had one full-time position with benefits offer 10 days and it's one that I was going to attempt to use as a test for my low-level negotiation skills to get to 20 if I could, or leverage for far higher salary. Gothmog1065 posted:On a much tinier scale, at the call center I used to work at, when I started, I got $15 an hour. People two years prior than that got $14. I heard people after me were getting $15.50 to start. Do you think the people who started prior to the starting wage increases got raises to match? Nope. Wouldn't the logic of discussing wages with co-workers be that if you all get together and talk money, it'd lead towards unionization, hence why employers discourage/forbid it in hopes employees' are apathetic to their rights or just afraid of trumped-up terminations even if they're possibly labor law-protected given lawyer fees are awful? That said, if the entire call center or at least a majority/impactful plurality said they wanted equal raises to come on par with new people, market rates be damned, wouldn't that force them to either consider the raise or taking a huge enough business hit if they fire en masse? MJP fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 29, 2015 |
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May 29, 2015 15:47
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I'm sure there are plenty of poo poo jobs that offer 0-7 days PTO, because  . And there's places that offer more. Or startups that troll you with ~unlimited PTO~ that you can never take because you're barely staying afloat even working 80 hour weeks. 3 weeks is by far the most common amount that I see offered, though.Then again it's been a long time since I was looking at real entry level stuff. Wouldn't surprise me if less is the norm there. Gothmog1065 posted:On a much tinier scale, at the call center I used to work at, when I started, I got $15 an hour. People two years prior than that got $14. I heard people after me were getting $15.50 to start. Do you think the people who started prior to the starting wage increases got raises to match? Nope. Reminds me of my first job bagging groceries in high school. After about a year, I was due for a raise. At that same time, the state raised minimum wage by like 25 cents. So management told everyone "that's your raise, Deal With It". I dealt with it by quitting, going to the bank around the corner, and getting a job as a teller making like $5/hr more doing way less lovely work. Fuckers.
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May 29, 2015 15:58
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Docjowles posted:I'm sure there are plenty of poo poo jobs that offer 0-7 days PTO, because True. Also, contract jobs generally don't do PTO unless you have a really awesome contract agency. I forget if Teksystems still offers PTO but they do offer benefits to contractors. I think that places that offer really lovely PTO probably also understand that they will get people willing to slog through that, and that they may not necessarily be top tier candidates. It sucks that "market rate" goes both ways... but hey, you're free to go broke or free to take the poo poo job, as equally free to prep for your next job or run your Ebay store from your phone on company time if you can avoid getting caught.
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May 29, 2015 16:01
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Docjowles posted:I'm sure there are plenty of poo poo jobs that offer 0-7 days PTO, because At least in my experience for looking for entry-level jobs, as of late, no vacation time is common.
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May 29, 2015 16:10
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MJP posted:True. Also, contract jobs generally don't do PTO unless you have a really awesome contract agency. I forget if Teksystems still offers PTO but they do offer benefits to contractors. Toot toot: As an example, we give a bonus of 40 hours' pay every 1000 hours you work, then after 6 months you're eligible for the 6 major holidays. So roughly 2 weeks/yr and 6 holidays paid for long term contractors.
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