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Somberbrero posted:It's not just insubstantial, setup speculation in lieu of real thought is scummy. It gets a little annoying but I've made a strict policy to not vote newbies in early days until they've got several games under their belt. It's worth eating a couple losses if it grows the community; if you get dunked early game over and over you never learn anything, get frustrated, and quit signing up for games. I think the best way to handle it is even if a newbie's being SUPER loving scummy, save it for later in the game, let them gently caress up a bunch, then when things are pretty well wrapped up you can dunk them and present them with a well built case that shows exactly where their missteps were. I've pretty much always stuck to this rule and it's worked out pretty well.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:41
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CCKeane posted:This is a compelling point. IDK that sounds a lot like pirate to me.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:42
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This must be what it's like to have people talking over your head  Therefore I assume Somberbrero's got no case and is just making GBS threads around. Go for it. Excuse my SUPER SCUMMY SETUP SPECULATION.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:55
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dscruffy1 posted:This must be what it's like to have people talking over your head Yo when you're talking about mechanics before you're talking about alignment it's because, whether or not you know it, setup chat is a great way to appear to be contributing content without actually helping to find the scum.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:58
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Somberbrero posted:Yo when you're talking about mechanics before you're talking about alignment it's because, whether or not you know it, setup chat is a great way to appear to be contributing content without actually helping to find the scum. Please elaborate on the myriad ways to actually help to find the scum in early d1 because the only one I can think of is a random pressure vote. I would love to hear this 
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Jun 2, 2015 22:01
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I'm feeling less confident about QPQ being scum now so ##unvote. I don't think The Betrayer is scum and I'm usually pretty good at spotting him out. ##vote Met because I think merk fear is the best case for today.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:05
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Met posted:"Yeah you can hang me if you want." The Ninth Layer posted:##vote Met because I think merk fear is the best case for today.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:10
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Merk is a good player. Scum would want to kill merk instead of trying to lynch him. You killed merk instead of trying to lynch him.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:21
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a better reason to argue met killed merk is that merk was heavily implying he held a vig
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Jun 2, 2015 22:23
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The Ninth Layer posted:Merk is a good player. I decided to suicide as scum to get rid of one townie. That's much more likely than any other situation. Okay.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:24
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dscruffy1 posted:Please elaborate on the myriad ways to actually help to find the scum in early d1 because the only one I can think of is a random pressure vote. I would love to hear this Are you aware that there's game outside of the conversation we're having? I feel like you're focusing on this dyad as an excuse to not engage the content of the game as a whole.
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Jun 2, 2015 22:29
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Somberbrero posted:Are you aware that there's game outside of the conversation we're having? I feel like you're focusing on this dyad as an excuse to not engage the content of the game as a whole. Content of the game as a whole. Okay. Gulag Dolls has about as much "content" as I do, by your metric. CCKeane has less. Gridlocked posted:Actually you know I agree with this, stabbing a guy just because you are having a poo poo slinging fight is stupid and a waste of a good stab. Gridlocked seems to be pushing hard for met. But a lot of people are pushing hard for met. Probably because it was a really queer vig that resulted in a town death. QuoProQuidis defensive to MEDS CURE SCHIZOS is mostly dismissive of it. Which seems about par for the course for anyone who's thinking YEP SURE GOT THAT SCUM. Opopanax is pushing hard for met and away from QPQ. Speaking of QPQ, QuoProQuid posted:Assuming Ecco is telling the truth about his/her flip: still seems fishy and then deflects to me. To you. And then agrees with you on "new player lovely scum" basis. Tremendous Taste is white noise. I'm sure there's things worth looking at there but the first page isn't it. And then there's you. Pretty much your only response so far has been responding to Gridlocked's vote and "what do you think of dscruffy1" Also I guess mills and shanakin are in the game in theory. Ecco gambit I guess. PinterestMom stabbed ecco for what seems like dumb reasons and it was scum. Doesn't seem like something scum would do to scum given knowledge but I'm sure that's happened before. Right now I don't like Opopanax, Gridlocked, and I'm going to ##vote QuoProQuid
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Jun 2, 2015 23:07
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Met posted:I decided to suicide as scum to get rid of one townie. That's much more likely than any other situation. Okay. This happens all the time, especially to get rid of strong aggressive town. In a nightless setup when you can't get rid of a player like merk by just killing him, this is even more true. If a player is a danger to your entire scum team, trading one member for them is a good deal. Also you seem alive, so.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:17
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Look Under The Rock posted:This happens all the time, especially to get rid of strong aggressive town. In a nightless setup when you can't get rid of a player like merk by just killing him, this is even more true. If a player is a danger to your entire scum team, trading one member for them is a good deal. Trading someone worth 3 townies for one townie is not a good trade especially when merk was acting like a nincompoop.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:27
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The Ninth Layer posted:I'm feeling less confident about QPQ being scum now so ##unvote. I don't think The Betrayer is scum and I'm usually pretty good at spotting him out. Yeah, I'm down. ##vote Met
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Jun 2, 2015 23:41
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Met posted:I decided to suicide as scum to get rid of one townie. That's much more likely than any other situation. Okay. It makes more sense than you suicided as town because you couldn't stand to be voted for a whole hour by merk.
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Jun 2, 2015 23:55
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Day 3 Vote Count Met (5): Gridlocked, MEDS CURE SCHIZOS (3): QuoProQuid, GulagDolls, Somberbrero QuoProQuid (2): Gridlocked (1): Met ETA to deadline: 1 day, 4 hours
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Jun 2, 2015 23:56
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The Ninth Layer posted:It makes more sense than you suicided as town because you couldn't stand to be voted for a whole hour by merk. Who suicided? You're purposefully misrepresenting what I actually said. Met posted:Yes, it turned out to be. From my point of view, I need to go out for the day and someone is on my rear end when I have a dayvig in my pocket. I don't feel like coming back lynched and a wasted vig. Met posted:I stand by the merk vote. It's a vote based on actions in the game as opposed to a vote based on actions before a game. It's only a foot higher on the hill but I find it to be a solid vote reasoning in a nightless Mafia unless someone scumslips horribly. Tremendous Taste posted:if it catches on and met flips town it's avoidable via housekeeping/principle argument
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Jun 3, 2015 00:11
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It's you who characterized your play as suicidal, not me.
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Jun 3, 2015 00:43
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Again, misrepresenting my position. I exclaimed it would be suicidal as scum to do so.
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Jun 3, 2015 00:58
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I don't see how a play could be suicidal for scum to make but at the same time stand as a savvy move if town did it. What you did was scummy as hell as either alignment.
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Jun 3, 2015 01:06
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MEDS CURE SCHIZOS posted:I am happy and calm. No, what you are doing is not really "throwing yourself out in the open." All that is happening is that you are being childish and unpleasant, so I stand by my recommendation that you need to chill out. All I intended was that when it comes to content, it is generally not the goal of scum to stick out. There are exceptions to this, especially if hiding amongst the crowd has been ruled out as a viable option, but I usually find it safe to assume that scum will go with the flow instead of fighting against the current. I never demanded that you follow this line of thought, only that it is what I tend to use in Mafia, especially early on. My case against you is that you jump on a case that seems like its gaining momentum and leave plenty of room to distance yourself if it turns belly up ("Oh, I just voted for better play") (1). You then completely ignore the weird as hell vig against merk in an attempt to revive a bandwagon that you are barely attached to (2). I really don't like you trying to misconstrue this as a simple retaliatory measure (3) because it feels dishonest. Going to ignore literally every other comment between that and the one I am quoting. dscruffy1 posted:This must be what it's like to have people talking over your head Somber has already mentioned that part of the issue is set-up speculation replacing actual scumhunting (4) but for me a large part of your problem is that you seem to be aware that you aren't contributing anything (5). It would be one thing for a player to get distracted trying to figure out the game logically, but you seem consciously rejecting the idea that any kind of contribution can be made (5), which is both unhelpful and scummy. Tremendous Taste posted:a better reason to argue met killed merk is that merk was heavily implying he held a vig Okay, I still don't buy the Met case but this is at least the better explanation I was looking for. dscruffy1 posted:Content of the game as a whole. Okay. Hypocritical, I know, but this is almost entirely a brief summary of the bleeding obvious. Scruffy, you mention that Gridlocked seems to be pushing to lynch Met. Why talk about Gridlocked in particular when, as you say, "a lot of people are pushing hard for met?" Do you find anything suspicious about his behavior or his vote in particular? If so, what? Can you provide some explanations as to why you think people are engaging in these behaviors? Just listing off what has happened over the last ten pages isn't immensely helpful. Met posted:Who suicided? You're purposefully misrepresenting what I actually said. What confuses me is how you are framing the kill. You don't initially explain your attack on merk as a result of your suspicions, but because "someone was on [your] rear end" (6). That kind of motivation doesn't entirely make sense for a town player, who should be motivated by finding scum above personal survival. It reads like you are just retaliating against someone who appears to be a threat against you, which is 3P behavior at best.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:01
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dscruffy1 posted:
I asked Gulag why s/he wasn't voting for met because it was his/her all-caps comment that it was a bad stab that tiped me over voting for met. I don't think I'd want to waste a vote on a guy just because I don't like the way he was constantly having personal arguments with people in the thread, but the fact he used a game mechanic to "win" was stupid.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:23
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Also sorry I haven't been posting as much as in Krem but I just got the Witcher 3
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Jun 3, 2015 04:26
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Oh hey there isn't 200 posts of people awkwardly insulting eachother to get through today, nice. A double stabbing really slowed things down, oddly enough. I guess the extra time frame helps, or rather hinders discussion.dscruffy1 posted:Also I guess mills and shanakin are in the game in theory. Ecco gambit I guess. Somberbrero posted:Are you aware that there's game outside of the conversation we're having? I feel like you're focusing on this dyad as an excuse to not engage the content of the game as a whole. I agree in theory, but in practice it can be kind of hard when you're not entirely familiar with intricacies of the game, scumhunting and all that. In my last game a basically convinced everyone I was scum, when I wasn't, simply by trying in earnest to post actual content and doing my own attempt at scum hunting. I admit there was some bad luck and timing in there but eh. Personally there's an awful lot of content in this thread, but so little actually stands out beyond the petty bickering of recent days. Everyone's arguments end up looking about as good as each others. QPQ kind of stands out as either trying hard, or trying too hard. Tasty also stands out for just being everywhere. A few people stand out by their absence, probably myself included, but I can currently empathise with that so hell I dunno. Question, what does OMGUS stand for?
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Jun 3, 2015 04:37
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Shanakin posted:This game has help my interest less than I was expecting it to. That seems like a failing on your part rather than a failing of the game itself. Lots of stuff has happened, it really should not be that hard to have opinions on things.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:42
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Shanakin posted:
Oh My God, U Suck Argument/voting because you're mad at someone, or because they dare to vote you, etc
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Jun 3, 2015 04:43
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LUTR I got a sick deck of CAT TAROT
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Jun 3, 2015 04:44
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Shanakin posted:
I agree entirely on the amount of content. Perhaps it is because it's our second game and we don't know how to tell the content from the filler but yeah, I too am having issues filtering though it all. People making personal attacks and arguments and poo poo doesn't help at all. And in all seriousness can someone post a list of acronyms and their meanings for us?
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Jun 3, 2015 04:50
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WIFOM: Whining Idiot Failure Of Mafia OMGUS: Oh My Gus LUTR: Look Under the Rock LLUTR: Lynch Look Under the Rock
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Jun 3, 2015 04:54
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Look Under The Rock posted:That seems like a failing on your part rather than a failing of the game itself. Lots of stuff has happened, it really should not be that hard to have opinions on things. That may be so, and maybe mafia just isn't for me. Tremendous Taste posted:Oh My God, U Suck Thanks. It seemed like its usage was something like that but I couldn't work out what the US stood for.
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Jun 3, 2015 04:56
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GulagDolls posted:WIFOM: Whining Idiot Failure Of Mafia GDI
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Jun 3, 2015 04:56
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Gulag Dolls Idiot
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Jun 3, 2015 04:56
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what happened to your retsuprae
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Jun 3, 2015 04:58
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Tremendous Taste posted:LUTR I got a sick deck of CAT TAROT freal tell me all about it (in the DJ room so as not to gently caress up game)
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Jun 3, 2015 05:19
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QuoProQuid posted:Can you provide some explanations as to why you think people are engaging in these behaviors? Just listing off what has happened over the last ten pages isn't immensely helpful. Off the top of my head I'd say it's easy to vote for met as HE LYNCHED TOWN A BLOO BLOO BLOO. He's already obvious as gently caress so it won't exactly be hard to make a case later. I think people (you) are engaging in these behaviors because you're scum and it looks like town participation. Hope this helps.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:37
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You're a loving moron. I'm not attaching myself to a case with a justification that I can walk back from for two reasons. A: This isn't a game where there's some magical revelation that's going to allow me to go "Whoa, okay, maybe they are a lovely candidate for a lynch, I can't continue to vote for a claimed doctor". There's no goddamned way out of the game, and unless someone actually claims scum and says to vote for them, my vote is staying right the gently caress here. B: For years I have advocated that people should pursue cases with vigor and enthusiasm, rather than half-heartedly imply something and then be able to walk it back. Hesitation is weakness. But let's actually look at your ridiculous drivel, shall we? QuoProQuid posted:All I intended was that when it comes to content, it is generally not the goal of scum to stick out. There are exceptions to this, especially if hiding amongst the crowd has been ruled out as a viable option, but I usually find it safe to assume that scum will go with the flow instead of fighting against the current. I never demanded that you follow this line of thought, only that it is what I tend to use in Mafia, especially early on. The first half of this thought is literally "Scum don't like to stick out, unless they do." Congratulations on not only saying nothing, but trying to couch it in a way that defends and clarifies that you said absolutely loving nothing. You claim that I'm twisting your words around, but the sad fact of the matter is that you went from a statement that was laughably incorrect to one that is nothing but white noise in an attempt to look like you actually posted something. You should have said nothing. quote:My case against you is that you jump on a case that seems like its gaining momentum and leave plenty of room to distance yourself if it turns belly up ("Oh, I just voted for better play") (1). You then completely ignore the weird as hell vig against merk in an attempt to revive a bandwagon that you are barely attached to (2). I really don't like you trying to misconstrue this as a simple retaliatory measure (3) because it feels dishonest. Going to ignore literally every other comment between that and the one I am quoting. No, your case against me is "Waaaaah, he voted for me, TWICE". I'm ignoring the vigilante kill against merk because, surprise surprise, merk flipped town. The only thing I stand to gain from staring at a townperson's flip is "Who wanted merk dead", which is a long list because merk is an rear end in a top hat. I can't say "Well, so&so was really protecting merk..." because there's no actual alignment call to be made there. It's loving useless and a red herring to second-guess it like this. Convenient for you, because you don't actually have any opinions, you're just rambling about nothing and trying to justify the fact that you're indignant that someone has called you out on being worthless. quote:Somber has already mentioned that part of the issue is set-up speculation replacing actual scumhunting (4) but for me a large part of your problem is that you seem to be aware that you aren't contributing anything (5). It would be one thing for a player to get distracted trying to figure out the game logically, but you seem consciously rejecting the idea that any kind of contribution can be made (5), which is both unhelpful and scummy. If you find him scummy, vote for him. If you don't find it scummy, it's a waste of goddamn time to point it out. quote:Okay, I still don't buy the Met case but this is at least the better explanation I was looking for. So the vigilante kill on merk was, in your words "weird as hell" and it's scummy that I ignored it, but you don't buy a case on the guy. Good to see you're covering all of your bases again. quote:Scruffy, you mention that Gridlocked seems to be pushing to lynch Met. Why talk about Gridlocked in particular when, as you say, "a lot of people are pushing hard for met?" Do you find anything suspicious about his behavior or his vote in particular? If so, what? You're begging the question and asking someone else to provide content, rather than acknowledge any of it yourself. I don't know why I'm in the least big surprised that you're desperately trying to avoid anything that could possibly be misconstrued as 'actual thought'. quote:Can you provide some explanations as to why you think people are engaging in these behaviors? Just listing off what has happened over the last ten pages isn't immensely helpful. More requests for explanation! QuoProQuid needs your help, everyone! He can't understand this Mafia game on his own, he needs you to help form his opinion for him so that he can hide behind the fact that you made a convincing case when he inevitably ends up on the bandwagon of a townsperson! quote:What confuses me is how you are framing the kill. You don't initially explain your attack on merk as a result of your suspicions, but because "someone was on [your] rear end" (6). That kind of motivation doesn't entirely make sense for a town player, who should be motivated by finding scum above personal survival. It reads like you are just retaliating against someone who appears to be a threat against you, which is 3P behavior at best. I am going to pretend that all of this ambivalence and completely useless alignment talk didn't actually happen, because I don't want to contemplate why you just invoked the concept of Ideal Town as well as a possible third party entity in a game with absolutely no evidence whatsoever that third party players exist. Ladies and gentlemen, QuoProQuid is either too goddamn stupid to be allowed to live long enough to actually influence lynches, or he's the laziest scum ever trying to hide under everyone else's opinions so that he can distance himself from them if he gets caught out. Do your patriotic duty as proud non-rebelling sailors. Vote early, vote often, vote QuoProQuid. ##unvote ##vote QuoProQuid
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Jun 3, 2015 05:44
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QuoProQuid posted:What confuses me is how you are framing the kill. You don't initially explain your attack on merk as a result of your suspicions, but because "someone was on [your] rear end" (6). That kind of motivation doesn't entirely make sense for a town player, who should be motivated by finding scum above personal survival. It reads like you are just retaliating against someone who appears to be a threat against you, which is 3P behavior at best. My vote had been on him all game, I didn't have time to babysit the game all day and I didn't want to come back to a lynch with a vig in the pocket. I don't know what TT was talking about merk hinting I had a vig. That didn't have anything to do with it. But you guys go ahead and lynch me and then explain to each other how it wasn't a bad lynch. At least you guys will have something to work with tomorrow.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:54
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Just giving the thread a heads up that I PMed Quandary for a replacement. Between the day job needing me to help out some other people as deadlines are approaching and the night job needing having to a bunch of crap to deal with over red cards, appeals, and referee assault after last night, I'm not going to have the time to play in a daily game. Sorry about that and thanks for understanding.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:31
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chaoslord posted:Just giving the thread a heads up that I PMed Quandary for a replacement. Between the day job needing me to help out some other people as deadlines are approaching and the night job needing having to a bunch of crap to deal with over red cards, appeals, and referee assault after last night, I'm not going to have the time to play in a daily game. Sorry about that and thanks for understanding. Aw poo poo, I am sorry to hear that. I also didn't know you were a ref.
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Jun 3, 2015 14:33
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