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Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat

sout posted:

I think that's with the DLC? Truth be told I don't think I ever had that, and if I did I disabled it, seemed like a dumb idea to me to mess up the balance of the game from the start.

Even without the DLC you can vacumn up absolutely everything the man owns, which was weird. On the other hand getting little bonus items based on your starting skills was really cool, and the fallout games need more of that.

New Vegas gets a lot of love but I think it's important to remember how much work Bethesda did for them by making Fallout 3 first, so I'm actually eager to see what Bethesda can do now that they're not inventing the wheel on Fallout.

But if V.A.T.S. is in up in this mug I'm binding it to num - and never using it again.

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DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

Gibberish posted:

This is the only game I would buy a PS4 for.

why? just buy a game PC instead it's a better investment.

if I was bethesda I'd be making GBS threads my pants and leaving this in the cooker another year after seeing how swell the Witcher world and quest structure turned out.

I remember I once accidentally took a fork off a table in Arefu or some poo poo and then "QUEST FAILED" popped up because now the entire populous of 5 loving people wanted me dead. So the entire quest line got hosed because I stole a thing from a table. what im saying is gently caress the Karma system and I hope it never comes back

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo
Given that everyone seems to like to compare trailers with other just announced games, Bard's Tale IV just released some in game footage from their Unreal engine:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/06/04/a-bards-tale-iv-gameplay-trailer

Pretty shiny

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011

I have some issues with the composition of the trailer; namely that it feels like 4 separate, good trailers mashed together to make a single one that's mediocre in composition.

You could split it up into 'zoom away from a tv to reveal a nuclear wasteland,' 'dog pokes around a blown out town with flashbacks', 'newscaster ron perlman announces the end of the world then wham line at the end' and 'game environment sizzle reel'.

As it stands the only real impact the TV thing has is 'oh cool it's like they're zooming away from the screen on the website, except not really cos it's a seperate youtube video.' It also doesn't really have any impact because it's a) been done too many times and is old as balls; children born the year fallout 1 came out with its baller intro are going to university this year. get some original ideas. b) the whole point of the fallout 1 intro was the juxtaposition between the happy, faintly ominous retrofuturistic newsreel and the nuclear wasteland. that being said it's probably not what they were going for so whatever; kind of a cynical use of iconography though.

Newscaster ron perlman would have had more of an impact is the whamline was at the end of the trailer. It's been done before but that's for a reason. Or maybe just don't try and cram it in there.

Dog trailer would have been pretty cool but it's broken up by the other crap as it is which kind of ruins any impact.

Sizzle reel has a utilitarian appeal to it which I as a graphics complainer appreciate but it doesn't really have any place in a trailer that's trying to have some measure of narrative impact.


too many words about a trailer

Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 4, 2015

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)

Azhais posted:

Given that everyone seems to like to compare trailers with other just announced games, Bard's Tale IV just released some in game footage from their Unreal engine:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/06/04/a-bards-tale-iv-gameplay-trailer

Pretty shiny

none of that looks like real gameplay to me

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Zzulu posted:

Yeah I agree, the prewar stuff all looks bad but I think the rest looks okay. Maybe they did the prewar scenes in a rush for the trailer

thats how people ran in the 1950s

SHUBNIGGURATHS CLIT
Jan 6, 2005

you're

MisterBibs posted:

.


I don't see what you're so upset about. Skyrim (and Valve games) is commercially and critically well received, and the same stuff I couldn't stand in WoW are generally the same reason why everyone who came back for the latest expansion have left in what was described as its 'biggest quarterly drop ever'. Don't get me wrong, it'd be fuckin' awesome if I alone was some gaming bellweather, but at least I'm part of the group that developers listen to. It's win win. Developers make games folks like I like, gaming gets better because of it.

PM me if you want to talk about it there so it's not a derail, but frankly it seems like you're just upset that developers listen to folks like me over someone like you, and that games are better for it.


Nah, the leveling content was fine. Getting to cap and not being able to flying is unacceptable.

You are one of the weirdest fuckers on this whole god drat benighted forum.

Skeezy
Jul 3, 2007

I'm playing through Fallout 3 and it's super weird. I'm enjoying it but I never finished the game and I don't remember any of it since I haven't touched it since it came out.

I'm not big on the percentages thing that they do, I much prefer passing a speech check or whatever if you have the proper points or whatever.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Skeezy posted:

I'm playing through Fallout 3 and it's super weird. I'm enjoying it but I never finished the game and I don't remember any of it since I haven't touched it since it came out.

I'm not big on the percentages thing that they do, I much prefer passing a speech check or whatever if you have the proper points or whatever.

I really liked FO3 except for the underground areas, and I think that's because I preferred to run around with the hunting rifle until I got that kickass .44 repeater, and the metro really needed an automatic weapon of some kind.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013
Yeah, the New Vegas way of handling speech checks was much better.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Anatharon posted:

That could be neat but I think dog city would be a rad setting for a game.

I want a standalone expansion where we play as a dog in dog city.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009

(▰˘v˘▰)
1. Bark
2. Poop
3. Bite throat

sout
Apr 24, 2014

Skeezy posted:

I'm playing through Fallout 3 and it's super weird. I'm enjoying it but I never finished the game and I don't remember any of it since I haven't touched it since it came out.

I'm not big on the percentages thing that they do, I much prefer passing a speech check or whatever if you have the proper points or whatever.

Yeah, it definitely leads to a lot of save scumming if you can be arsed to waste a few minutes to pass a 10% speech check that gets you 50 caps or whatever.
By the way, was it possible in Fallout 1 and 2 to break locks? Because I made a serious effort never to force locks in 3/NV because of it.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
So I just compared the fallout 3 and Skyrim dev teams:

The Director, Production Director, Animator, and Audio Director are the same people, Todd Howard, Ashely Cheng, Josh Jones, and Mark Lambert respectively.

However, not everything is the same: technical Director of 3, Guy Carver, becomes the Lead Programmer of Skyrim. The lead Writer and Artist change completely, from Emil Pagliarulo and Istvan Pely to Bruce Nesmith and Matthew Carofano.

So, does anyone know who is actually making Fallout 4? I understand these AAA games are made in modules and then fitted together later, so the writing in these games is always all over the place - different quests by different guys, certain guilds/groups of quests have better writing, etc.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

sout posted:

Yeah, it definitely leads to a lot of save scumming if you can be arsed to waste a few minutes to pass a 10% speech check that gets you 50 caps or whatever.
By the way, was it possible in Fallout 1 and 2 to break locks? Because I made a serious effort never to force locks in 3/NV because of it.

I don't think so, I remember spending like 15m repeatedly trying to lockpick the entrance to the Fallout 2 mercenary caves with my nonexistent lockpick skill, finally got it after who knows how many tries.

sout
Apr 24, 2014

Jack B Nimble posted:

So I just compared the fallout 3 and Skyrim dev teams:

The Director, Production Director, Animator, and Audio Director are the same people, Todd Howard, Ashely Cheng, Josh Jones, and Mark Lambert respectively.

However, not everything is the same: technical Director of 3, Guy Carver, becomes the Lead Programmer of Skyrim. The lead Writer and Artist change completely, from Emil Pagliarulo and Istvan Pely to Bruce Nesmith and Matthew Carofano.

So, does anyone know who is actually making Fallout 4? I understand these AAA games are made in modules and then fitted together later, so the writing in these games is always all over the place - different quests by different guys, certain guilds/groups of quests have better writing, etc.

Could be worse.

Shugojin
Sep 6, 2007

THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...


sout posted:

Yeah, it definitely leads to a lot of save scumming if you can be arsed to waste a few minutes to pass a 10% speech check that gets you 50 caps or whatever.
By the way, was it possible in Fallout 1 and 2 to break locks? Because I made a serious effort never to force locks in 3/NV because of it.

It absolutely was possible to break locks if you hosed up.

afkmacro
Mar 29, 2009



Shugojin posted:

It absolutely was possible to break locks if you hosed up.

Yep and you could use explosives on things to force it open once that happened.

Mordaedil
Oct 25, 2007

Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?
Grimey Drawer

Zzulu posted:

none of that looks like real gameplay to me

Do you know what a Bard's Tale game is? It's essentially Myst with wizards and warriors. You look at pretty poo poo and kill it with menus. That pretty much is their gameplay.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Hmmn, looking at more, I can't tell who's doing what. Seems Emil Pagliarulo, the dark brotherhood writer, was the lead writer of both Fallout 3 and Skyrim? Dunno.

Things I'd like to see go in Fallout 4:
  • VATS - What's cool about Stalker? Getting surprised and having to freak out and rock and roll. What happens in Fallout? Turn on VATs, cooly survey every enemy, including the one you didn't realize was behind you, make a plan, then execute the plan. Screw that, screw VATS.
  • Karma - just make a lists of factions and have them track their reputation separately, other games do this, it's not ground breaking.
  • PiP boy light - Fallout 4 seems to have better color and lighting (that shot of the mysterios stranger looking dude walking on the dark street), so just give me a flashlight, don't me me wash green light everywhere to find something.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Azhais posted:

Given that everyone seems to like to compare trailers with other just announced games, Bard's Tale IV just released some in game footage from their Unreal engine:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/06/04/a-bards-tale-iv-gameplay-trailer

Pretty shiny

Now look at that loving ugly Fallout 4 poo poo, there's just no excuse for inExile, being tiny and low-funding compared to Bethesda, being able to just eat their loving lunch on environment design and graphical detail.

Zzulu posted:

none of that looks like real gameplay to me

Why not?

Jack B Nimble posted:

Hmmn, looking at more, I can't tell who's doing what. Seems Emil Pagliarulo, the dark brotherhood writer, was the lead writer of both Fallout 3 and Skyrim? Dunno.

Things I'd like to see go in Fallout 4:
  • VATS - What's cool about Stalker? Getting surprised and having to freak out and rock and roll. What happens in Fallout? Turn on VATs, cooly survey every enemy, including the one you didn't realize was behind you, make a plan, then execute the plan. Screw that, screw VATS.
  • Karma - just make a lists of factions and have them track their reputation separately, other games do this, it's not ground breaking.
  • PiP boy light - Fallout 4 seems to have better color and lighting (that shot of the mysterios stranger looking dude walking on the dark street), so just give me a flashlight, don't me me wash green light everywhere to find something.

A good post.

BlackLaser
Dec 2, 2005

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


There's no reason a Pip-Boy wouldn't have a small LED flashlight right at the wrist.
Oh wait, 1950s future retro. No LEDs.
But how does the screen light up, phosphorous?

Magmarashi
May 20, 2009





Inzombiac posted:

There's no reason a Pip-Boy wouldn't have a small LED flashlight right at the wrist.
Oh wait, 1950s future retro. No LEDs.
But how does the screen light up, phosphorous?

bulbs?

khy
Aug 15, 2005

I'm trying to think back on the games i've played with the unreal engine. Do any of the UE games handle really long draw distances very well? How many UE games have been set in an open world environment similar to FNV or Skyrim?

In thinking back to the UE games I've played most of them have fairly short draw distances and focus on smaller, but more cluttered maps. It'd be great for indoors but i don't know how great it'd be when outside.

Likewise, I don't recall ever trying to mod any UE games. I'm sure it's doable I'm just wondering, in terms of ease-of-modding how games made with UE4 compare to the Creation Kit.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013
I wish Bethesda would do what Obsidian did and take fan opinions into account. They stopped talking to their fans after Oblivion rose up a shitstorm on their forums.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat

khy posted:

I'm trying to think back on the games i've played with the unreal engine. Do any of the UE games handle really long draw distances very well? How many UE games have been set in an open world environment similar to FNV or Skyrim?

In thinking back to the UE games I've played most of them have fairly short draw distances and focus on smaller, but more cluttered maps. It'd be great for indoors but i don't know how great it'd be when outside.

Likewise, I don't recall ever trying to mod any UE games. I'm sure it's doable I'm just wondering, in terms of ease-of-modding how games made with UE4 compare to the Creation Kit.

According to this wikipedia list a lot of games, including the Borderlands Series.

I guess the unreal engine is ok but I always know I'm playing one when I have to deal with lots of low res placeholder textures being used for a few seconds.

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011

khy posted:

I'm trying to think back on the games i've played with the unreal engine. Do any of the UE games handle really long draw distances very well? How many UE games have been set in an open world environment similar to FNV or Skyrim?

In thinking back to the UE games I've played most of them have fairly short draw distances and focus on smaller, but more cluttered maps. It'd be great for indoors but i don't know how great it'd be when outside.

Likewise, I don't recall ever trying to mod any UE games. I'm sure it's doable I'm just wondering, in terms of ease-of-modding how games made with UE4 compare to the Creation Kit.

Yeah I can't recally playing an unreal engine game that wasn't pretty much level-based. I'm sure streaming open worlds can be done, but it's not really what it's meant for. Modding UE depends if you ahve the tools I think; games like unreal tournament ship with a map editor but most are pretty much impenetrable. You can hack the asset files to do poo poo like replacing textures and use cheat engine but nothing really close to anything like the plugin system bethesda uses.

SunAndSpring posted:

I wish Bethesda would do what Obsidian did and take fan opinions into account. They stopped talking to their fans after Oblivion rose up a shitstorm on their forums.

Most fans have terrible, uninformed opinions but when they're universally crying out for something it might me wise to listen. Were people complaining about diagonal running animations right after oblivion came out?

Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jun 4, 2015

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

khy posted:

I'm trying to think back on the games i've played with the unreal engine. Do any of the UE games handle really long draw distances very well? How many UE games have been set in an open world environment similar to FNV or Skyrim?

In thinking back to the UE games I've played most of them have fairly short draw distances and focus on smaller, but more cluttered maps. It'd be great for indoors but i don't know how great it'd be when outside.

Likewise, I don't recall ever trying to mod any UE games. I'm sure it's doable I'm just wondering, in terms of ease-of-modding how games made with UE4 compare to the Creation Kit.

UE supports streamloading and can do giant worlds and drawdistances, Borderlands mentioned above is a pretty good example, but there have been a few open world (lovely) MMOs that had larger areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games#Unreal_Engine_4

Generic Monk posted:

Modding UE depends if you ahve the tools I think; games like unreal tournament ship with a map editor but most are pretty much impenetrable. You can hack the asset files and replace textures like that and use cheat engine but nothing really close to anything like the plugin system bethesda uses.

Holy poo poo, dude. UT4 is basically being crowdsourced as we speak. The tools have never been more available or easier to use, it's been a massive focus of Epic to get the engine to as many people as possible and as easily as possible.
http://www.unrealtournament.com/blog/

AlternateAccount fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 4, 2015

Roobanguy
May 31, 2011


oh boy

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011

AlternateAccount posted:

Holy poo poo, dude. UT4 is basically being crowdsourced as we speak. The tools have never been more available or easier to use, it's been a massive focus of Epic to get the engine to as many people as possible and as easily as possible.
http://www.unrealtournament.com/blog/

That's for making games from scratch though, not modding and tweaking existing ones. Most games won't let you just load their files up in the unreal editor and change poo poo, and most developers aren't willing or able to hand over a good portion of their toolchain to modders.

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo

Zzulu posted:

none of that looks like real gameplay to me

Well, it isn't gameplay footage, just in-engine footage to show it off. How the whole "combat" thing is going to work is still in the design phase.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat

Generic Monk posted:

That's for making games from scratch though, not modding and tweaking existing ones. Most games won't let you just load their files up in the unreal editor and change poo poo, and most developers aren't willing or able to hand over a good portion of their toolchain to modders.

I can't stress enough how big a deal it is to me that Bethesda prioritizes making their games moddable; I'm extremely forgiving about their finished product because they lay the ground work for something that amateurs can build on in reasonable increments: Look at something like SkyWind (god bless them); when you ask modders to build a game from the ground up it takes time.

Bethesda makes a solid core game that is then polished up by devoted fans, and that's why Fallout 4 may not be a GREAT game at launch, but it's going to be a GOOD game for years and years.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013

Generic Monk posted:

Most fans have terrible, uninformed opinions but when they're universally crying out for something it might me wise to listen. Were people complaining about diagonal running animations right after oblivion came out?

Well that's the thing. They don't talk to them period, no matter what. I'm pretty sure people told them that the lack of diagonal running animations, level scaling, and all that jazz were bad ideas, but Bethesda got upset about it and now I think the only time they talk to people is in some sanitized thread on the general forum where you can't ask them about anything related to their own game.

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Generic Monk posted:

That's for making games from scratch though, not modding and tweaking existing ones. Most games won't let you just load their files up in the unreal editor and change poo poo, and most developers aren't willing or able to hand over a good portion of their toolchain to modders.

Ah, good point, but that's really more a function of developers and toolset inertia, not really a comment on the capability of one engine vs another.

Tamayachi
Sep 25, 2007

Did you think about it?


Yes. Yes you did.

Zzulu posted:

The dog will follow you around and auto-scavenge cool stuff for you, fight enemies with you and bark real loud if it finds a hidden entrance to some cool place. You and the dog will become best buds, he will be the only friend you truly trust in this broken world. Then the bad guy will kill your dog your dog goes feral and you have to snap it's neck to put it out of it's misery. :(

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011

SunAndSpring posted:

Well that's the thing. They don't talk to them period, no matter what. I'm pretty sure people told them that the lack of diagonal running animations, level scaling, and all that jazz were bad ideas, but Bethesda got upset about it and now I think the only time they talk to people is in some sanitized thread on the general forum where you can't ask them about anything related to their own game.

I'd love to see them challenge themselves and their own preconceptions but the sheer financial success of their games does beget an inherent conservatism. That said I hope that they push themselves creatively and tehnically - you can do it guys!

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013
I think there's probably gonna be a mini-shitstorm when Bethesda confirms the protagonist is voice acted. Nothing that can be done, of course, since Bethesda has probably paid Troy Baker and put him and whoever his female counterpart will be (20 bucks on Laura Bailey) to work, but it's gonna upset a lot of people.

khy
Aug 15, 2005

Eh. I was going to write up a big thing discussing the virtues and vices of Creation vs the UE4 engine but I don't know enough about the UE4 engine to know how it handles a lot of things that Creation was built for. (Mass interactable physics objects, modding, draw distances, etc)

Personally I like the Creation engine and I see it as a HUGE improvement over Gamebryo. People tend to focus too much on the similarities but honestly I think that many of the flaws aren't the engine, but rather the artists/modellers/animators since they're almost all the same team. We've seen that modders can take the engine and produce good looking faces, detailed and immersive animations, and change the art style to be gorgeous as hell without having to convert Skyrim over to another engine.

Creation is fine. People need to bitch less about Creation and more about getting a new design team in. We need new modellers and new texture artists more than a change in the engine.

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AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

khy posted:

Eh. I was going to write up a big thing discussing the virtues and vices of Creation vs the UE4 engine but I don't know enough about the UE4 engine to know how it handles a lot of things that Creation was built for. (Mass interactable physics objects, modding, draw distances, etc)

Personally I like the Creation engine and I see it as a HUGE improvement over Gamebryo. People tend to focus too much on the similarities but honestly I think that many of the flaws aren't the engine, but rather the artists/modellers/animators since they're almost all the same team. We've seen that modders can take the engine and produce good looking faces, detailed and immersive animations, and change the art style to be gorgeous as hell without having to convert Skyrim over to another engine.

Creation is fine. People need to bitch less about Creation and more about getting a new design team in. We need new modellers and new texture artists more than a change in the engine.

Mass physics you say?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7_rPDwSKe8
Granted, that's .4fps, but hey.

But yeah, Bethesda is mostly a sucking black hole of creativity right now and they don't seem to be pushing themselves or being pushed by management, so we get turds like this.

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