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Syrant posted:They honestly SHOULD have had more money until Bethesda loving cornholed them and I doubt we'll ever see another Obsidian Fallout title. Goddamnit, now I'm depressed. Avellone has explicitly said they'd build another Fallout game at the drop of a hat because of how much they love the setting and that it was up to Bethesda. The bonus/QA thing sucks but they ultimately shook it off. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 21:16
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bloodychill posted:Pretty much. He was at least somewhat reasonable. The moment he died the legions would have gone to poo poo and resulted in more bloodshed than any other conflict the game alludes to short of the original nuclear war. And even then, the Legion only has the barest trappings of Rome. Caesar wants the taking of New Vegas to be his crossing of the Rubicon (as stated directly by Arcade), turning Vegas into Rome. At the moment the Legion is little more than a more organized band of raiders with no backing civilization. You never actually see Legion towns, but from what I understand based on in-game backstory and Sawyer's explanation they're mostly just regular wasteland towns that happen to have guys in football pads and head dresses patrolling the streets and taking taxes and/or healthy male babies. Caesar needed to take New Vegas because it was the first stepping stone to creating a real Roman Empire.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:17
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I'm not quite sure where all the hubbub around the whole "everything is so morally grey!" thing started with New Vegas. Perhaps Obsidian hyped it themselves, I dunno. What I find so good about the game is that it has motivations for its viewpoints though. You can clearly explain away Caesar's Legion as evil if you wish to involve morality in it all. But what's nice is that there's a pretty nicely done motivation and backstory for them, waaaay moreso than for most evil groups in games. And I think they stand as a sort of testament to the Fallout world which is that the old world style of governments always gently caress it up through greed, bureacracy and bickering (as evidenced by the world ending). The Legion, while obviously on a lovely path of their own, provides a different way to go about it in a world that is obviously different than the old world. I think that's where the "appeal" (if one can call it that) for Caesar's Legion is for some players. To me, it's not about "what faction would be best for the wasteland in a "real world". It's that they provide enough motivations and reasons for me to make characters with wildly different viewpoints and have those characters be able to express that in the actual game. And besides that, there is one thing where NV just takes a giant dump over F3... It at least gives you the loving choice to decide for yourself. It gives you the choice of being an insane Legion supporter if you wish, it gives you the choice to say "gently caress you" to all the factions. For me, a lot of what Fallout is about is just that, the freedom to do whatever the hell you want in a post-apocalyptic world where morality is at a premium. Fallout 3 completely hosed that up, along with a lot of other things. You can't say "gently caress you" to the BoS or to dear old dad. Well, maybe you can in the dialogue but it never amounts to anything. The game forces you along with its plot. Leinadi fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Jun 5, 2015 |
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Jun 5, 2015 21:31
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Sharzak posted:new vegas was better written and fo3 was more fun but what if... new vegas was better written and more fun to play???????
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Jun 5, 2015 21:33
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3's atmosphere is miles better than NV's. Otherwise NV is undoubtedly the better game, the good vs evil poo poo really makes me groan. Although why the balls did Obsidian keep the lovely karma system? I shouldn't become scum for stealing weapons from Caesar's camp...
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Jun 5, 2015 21:37
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Leinadi posted:I'm not quite sure where all the hubbub around the whole "everything is so morally grey!" thing started with New Vegas. Perhaps Obsidian hyped it themselves, I dunno. What I find so good about the game is that it has motivations for its viewpoints though. You can clearly explain away Caesar's Legion as evil if you wish to involve morality in it all. But what's nice is that there's a pretty nicely done motivation and backstory for them, waaaay moreso than for most evil groups in games. And I think they stand as a sort of testament to the Fallout world which is that the old world style of governments always gently caress it up through greed, bureacracy and bickering (as evidenced by the world ending). The Legion, while obviously on a lovely path of their own, provides a different way to go about it in a world that is obviously different than the old world. All of the factions are pretty morally ambiguous for the most part and three of the four endings are entirely reliant on how the Courier handles affairs to determine whether they come out truly good or bad. The Legion was just always unambiguously evil. They have motivations and complexity, yes, but they were never meant to be a potentially good choice no matter how moral you acted in their name. I think at least some of the attempts to justify the Legion came from a belief that every faction was truly morally gray with no clear good answer, and they started from there with trying to justify the Legion's behavior. They didn't understand that yes, they really are the bad guys. Obsidian let you join them, but they're still the bad guys.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:37
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RBA Starblade posted:I replayed FO3 again a few months ago for the hell of it and went straight to DC and got bogged down in the Super Mutant vs. Talon section of the mall. I had next to no working weapons, armor, or meds. I basically ended up going from mutant to mutant for ammo and a new weapon, throwing away the broken old one, then got into the Capitol building. I left the Capitol building with a few hundred bullets, a handful more meds than I started with, and several sets of combat armor and a nuclear rocket launcher and it was amazing. FO4 should have you finding way less bullets and drugs but in return everyone dies easier, like in Metro. Exactly. And you should be among the things that also die easier. Barring power armor, if I shoot something in the skull with a .50 cal, it should die, end of discussion. Personally I'd also love to see a split between guns and energy weapons, such that guns worked great against most people, but did poo poo all against power armor. Then have energy weapons be extra effective against power armor. And create a melee energy weapon I guess, in case you really want to hit a dude with a hammer. Mortimer posted:You keep saying this but you've never listed any interesting places in FO3. Sure I did. The Mall is pretty cool in general. Our Lady of Hope and the Reilly's Rangers building stuff is awesome. Fort Bannister is great. Same with Germantown. Old Olney is great. I remember there being some cool stuff SW of Megaton too, but not what it's called. I just don't really care if a quest brings be there.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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chitoryu12 posted:I think at least some of the attempts to justify the Legion came from a belief that every faction was truly morally gray with no clear good answer, and they started from there with trying to justify the Legion's behavior. They didn't understand that yes, they really are the bad guys. Obsidian let you join them, but they're still the bad guys. We have a history of good people joining horrible causes and becoming corrupted or just opportunistically using them for their own gains. I think Obsidian have done a very good job with the Legion in that regard. Perhaps frighteningly so. If you ever wonder how people could justify certain atrocities and choices in our past - well, look at the way they justify the Legion in NV.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:57
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PittTheElder posted:Exactly. And you should be among the things that also die easier. Barring power armor, if I shoot something in the skull with a .50 cal, it should die, end of discussion. Now I know literally nothing about game design, but I think inherently realistic gun damage would completely break any sort of RPG-style skill-based progression.
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Jun 5, 2015 21:58
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sout posted:Now I know literally nothing about game design, but I think inherently realistic gun damage would completely break any sort of RPG-style skill-based progression. I suppose skill could affect your ability to score a hit. So while a .50 to the head should be an instant kill, a low level/skilled character might not be able to score such a hit unless it was at a point blank range. I'm sure it's doable.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:00
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It's not hard to see where the greyness comes in in New Vegas, there's clear moments in the plot where it pops up: When the NCR sends you to annihilate out the Great Khans, when House sends you to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel, even if you're willing to hear Caesar out the first thing he tells you is to kill Mr. House. You're supposed to make moral choices and rethink the path you're going down at these points. The loose plot with all the factions battling for power is the appeal. I can see how that didn't work for folks who were busy wandering around listening to the radio with 6 songs on it, purposely ignoring characters and plot while they look for the non-existent Skyrim dungeons and wondering when the game's supposed to start. Those expectations hurt New Vegas more than anything. The game really would've been miles better if they ditched the open world entirely and went with an overworld ala Fallout 1&2.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:17
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That's why New Vegas' relatively small map helps out. If it had been Skyrim size, it would have blown to walk forever to each encounter. Instead, it's fairly tightly packed.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:25
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Roobanguy posted:but what if... new vegas was better written and more fun to play???????
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Jun 5, 2015 22:28
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In the shadow, of the valleyyyyy
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Jun 5, 2015 22:51
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I enjoyed F3 more than NV so F3 was the better game for me. TO BE FAIR, I did play F3 with all the DLC's and patches so maybe I had more content than usual and less buggs too
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Jun 5, 2015 22:54
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Stink gently caress Rob posted:It's not hard to see where the greyness comes in in New Vegas, there's clear moments in the plot where it pops up: When the NCR sends you to annihilate out the Great Khans, when House sends you to destroy the Brotherhood of Steel, even if you're willing to hear Caesar out the first thing he tells you is to kill Mr. House. You're supposed to make moral choices and rethink the path you're going down at these points. The Great Khan thing was always weird to me. Aren't they the raiders that try to murder you in FO1? And still raiding? Why does anyone care about them as a group beyond that? Legion I can buy caring because they're nothing but rapists and slavers and raiders and assimilating those guys is the Legion's thing, but the Khans have a history of being booted from place to place but not killed.
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Jun 5, 2015 22:55
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mackintosh posted:I suppose skill could affect your ability to score a hit. So while a .50 to the head should be an instant kill, a low level/skilled character might not be able to score such a hit unless it was at a point blank range. I'm sure it's doable. And how exactly are you going to implement that in an Bethesda-style FPS RPG?
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Jun 5, 2015 22:56
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cargohills posted:And how exactly are you going to implement that in an Bethesda-style FPS RPG? More weapon sway, perks to do more damage/armor penetration and reduce sway,
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Jun 5, 2015 22:58
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PittTheElder posted:Barring power armor, if I shoot something in the skull with a .50 cal, it should die, end of discussion. New Vegas starts with you surviving a gunshot to the head  In all seriousness though the general public tend not to give a poo poo about realism in fantasy RPGs so going out of their way to achieve such a thing seems pretty counter-productive.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:05
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RBA Starblade posted:More weapon sway, perks to do more damage/armor penetration and reduce sway, If a regular bullet can already kill someone in a few shots there'd be no real point to weapon damage perks, and more weapon sway would just end up being annoying. I would like armor to matter more, though.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:11
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CherryCat posted:I've already decided that the firs thing I do will be look for the Cheers bar, it's Boston, it has to be there. I wanna start chucking mini-nukes at the Red Sox fans on general principle.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:20
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Zzulu posted:I enjoyed F3 more than NV so F3 was the better game for me. Nah base New Vegas is still insanely better in every way than 3 even with all the fixins.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:20
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i hope dt makes a comeback.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:22
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There's probably gonna be some huge reliance on Irish culture in this loving game, maybe a gang of leprechauns too
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Jun 5, 2015 23:22
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JawKnee posted:There's probably gonna be some huge reliance on Irish culture in this loving game, maybe a gang of leprechauns too Mini-super mutants.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:26
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JawKnee posted:There's probably gonna be some huge reliance on Irish culture in this loving game, maybe a gang of leprechauns too
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Jun 5, 2015 23:27
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cargohills posted:If a regular bullet can already kill someone in a few shots there'd be no real point to weapon damage perks, and more weapon sway would just end up being annoying. I would like armor to matter more, though. It doesn't have to be one hit kills or anything but in NV automatic weapons end up pretty crap compared to revolvers or semi-auto guns when it comes to dps.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:32
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Groovelord Neato posted:Nah base New Vegas is still insanely better in every way than 3 even with all the fixins. Hmm, well, 
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Jun 5, 2015 23:33
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JawKnee posted:There's probably gonna be some huge reliance on Irish culture in this loving game, maybe a gang of leprechauns too If this game doesn't have references to Ireland and Irish Pride and "FOOK YOU Listen ahm sorrah itjest ahm Eyerish" in every frame possible to the point I want to smash my computer than it has failed
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Jun 5, 2015 23:36
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Professor Shark posted:If this game doesn't have references to Ireland and Irish Pride and "FOOK YOU Listen ahm sorrah itjest ahm Eyerish" in every frame possible to the point I want to smash my computer than it has failed [Intelligence 9/10] I can't understand this strange language.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:41
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fallout 3 is absolutely fantastic if you wanted to play a game with a color palette that consists entirely of few shades of gray and puke green skies.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:43
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Bongo bongo bongo I don't wanna leave the congo oh no no no no nooooo
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Jun 5, 2015 23:48
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cargohills posted:And how exactly are you going to implement that in an Bethesda-style FPS RPG? Weapon sway is a big part of it, you could also have it increase the spread, or have the weapon durability degrade faster at low skill, have reloads take longer, etc. Loads of stuff you can do, and those only took me ten seconds to think up. Catpiss Neverclean posted:In all seriousness though the general public tend not to give a poo poo about realism in fantasy RPGs so going out of their way to achieve such a thing seems pretty counter-productive. Yeah, I'm sure this is the reason they don't. Honestly it's not about the realism for me either, since this is a game that lets you shoulder launch mini-nukes at stuff. But it's just so stupid when you shoot a high level enemy in the head with a high powered rifle and he takes like 20% damage. Equally stupid when you just stand there getting shot while applying stimpaks from your pip-boy interface. I remember the big rebalance mods tended to make your guns a lot better, but also massively increased the health or armor or something on the high end enemies, which just made them annoying, rather than difficult, to kill. ShadowMar posted:fallout 3 is absolutely fantastic if you wanted to play a game with a color palette that consists entirely of few shades of gray and puke green skies. If you were playing FO3 without Fellout and assorted sky and weather mods, you were playing the game wrong anyway.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:51
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ShadowMar posted:fallout 3 is absolutely fantastic if you wanted to play a game with a color palette that consists entirely of few shades of gray and puke green skies. One of the first things I do when I'm playing fallout 3 is download one of the wasteland overhaul mods like: http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout3/mods/19864/ Just so the whole place is a little less dingy.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:53
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PittTheElder posted:If you were playing FO3 without Fellout and assorted sky and weather mods, you were playing the game wrong anyway. so what you are saying is that bethesda did a very poor job with fallout 3? yes, i agree.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:54
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I like VATS
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Jun 5, 2015 23:59
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ShadowMar posted:so what you are saying is that bethesda did a very poor job with fallout 3? yes, i agree. Oh I'm definitely not going to argue against that. FO3 has flaws every which way. I just think it still managed to be a better game than NV somehow.
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Jun 6, 2015 00:02
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RBA Starblade posted:[Intelligence 9/10] I can't understand this strange language. Holy loving poo poo it'd be amazing if they made certain characters talk with such terrible and obnoxious Boston accents that only low Intelligence players could pass Speech checks for them to not drunkenly attack you [PASSED] AH poo poo THIS GUYS LAK MYBRUDDA!
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Jun 6, 2015 00:21
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I think FO3 is a good game that's outclassed in every way by FNV, and I'm a little sad I played NV first because of that. Although... GNR vs Radio New Vegas... that's a tough one. I'm excited for more Bethesda Fallout, and hopeful for more Obsidian Fallout as well. Edit: Where's my TTW-like that ports Skyrim into Fallout, I want to shoot dragons with anti-tank guns.
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Jun 6, 2015 00:23
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RBA Starblade posted:The Great Khan thing was always weird to me. Aren't they the raiders that try to murder you in FO1? And still raiding? Why does anyone care about them as a group beyond that? Legion I can buy caring because they're nothing but rapists and slavers and raiders and assimilating those guys is the Legion's thing, but the Khans have a history of being booted from place to place but not killed. It's complicated. They've been at war with the NCR since before there was an NCR. They were formed from one of the four factions that emerged from Vault 15 after the Vault collapsed into violent conflict. So there's this long shared history there. Most of their raiding's basically an extension of that conflict, since the only raiding they ever seem to do targets Shady Sands. Sure, they had a couple rear end in a top hat leaders, but on the whole they're pretty chill people who the Republic's treated like poo poo for years. Garl Death-Hand could get along with Killian Darkwater, so clearly they're not that bad. There's a quest in Fallout 2 that involves violently driving them out of their ancestral home and killing most of them so that the NCR can use its tech to launch a violent and corrupt expansion campaign. I think that raiding and doing violence against the people who have been brutally oppressing you for ages is not really that evil a thing to do.
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