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Krataar posted:Just finished the first movie. Having actual context on the battle made it even better. Still not entirely sure whats going on. Yang is part of space america and Blondie is part of Space prussia. Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? Hyperspace is dangerous and mysterious, but some narrow safe routes have been charted, including the Iserlohn Corridor.
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May 5, 2015 03:59
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Krataar posted:Just finished the first movie. Having actual context on the battle made it even better. Still not entirely sure whats going on. Yang is part of space america and Blondie is part of Space prussia. Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? For whatever reason not all areas of space are navigable and there's only two navigable corridors of space between the FPA and the Reich. One is controlled by a neutral planet, Phezzan, while the other is where they sited the death star thing, Iserlohn. So no they can't go around it. There's probably some science-y explanation for how this works, but it's basically a contrivance to create a stalemate scenario between the two sides since neither side can attack the other's core areas without being funneled through a single obvious chokepoint.
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May 5, 2015 04:02
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^Black holes and other things you wouldn't wanna be anywhere near light speed around.Krataar posted:Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? No, which is the point. There are two safe passages not littered with suns and black holes between empire and alliance space; one of these passages has a big gently caress off death star, and the other has a 'neutral' third nation-state.
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May 5, 2015 04:16
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Krataar posted:Just finished the first movie. Having actual context on the battle made it even better. Still not entirely sure whats going on. Yang is part of space america and Blondie is part of Space prussia. Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? The series starts off a bit slow and it'll take a while to get a sense of things, but rest assured poo poo will escalate very soon, and it will never stop.
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May 5, 2015 04:23
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Yeah it does take a little while to grasp the setting, it's pretty vast and there are a lot of moving parts. The crazy thing is almost every one of those moving parts is interesting and thus memorable.
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May 5, 2015 04:25
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As soon as the credits for an episode stop, don't watch any more. Some people have been seriously spoiled by those "on the next episode!" Parts (that loving narrator). The story still holds up otherwise but just a warning.
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May 5, 2015 04:27
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Im onsite this week for work once im home ill watch a few a day and post about it as i go. Or if its the kind of show instant reaction posts. Live vicariously through me.
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May 5, 2015 04:28
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hawaiian_robot posted:As soon as the credits for an episode stop, don't watch any more. Some people have been seriously spoiled by those "on the next episode!" Parts (that loving narrator). The story still holds up otherwise but just a warning. It's a pretend narrative of a fake history and as such is very much like an actual history narrative in that sense; assuming you will not be shocked when certain things are dropped casually in the previews and episode titles. That said you have the whole series presumably so it's silly to watch the next episode previews and if you are tender about very blatant spoilers it would be wise to avoid them.
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May 5, 2015 05:04
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DamnGlitch posted:It's a pretend narrative of a fake history and as such is very much like an actual history narrative in that sense; assuming you will not be shocked when certain things are dropped casually in the previews and episode titles. That said you have the whole series presumably so it's silly to watch the next episode previews and if you are tender about very blatant spoilers it would be wise to avoid them. I once stopped watching the series midway because a bunch of stuff was revealed to me, but that was a terrible decision on my part. The series heavily foreshadows most of what could be spoiled to you, and for every single-sentence spoiler you read, the show presents it fantastically over a multi-episode arc.
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May 5, 2015 07:48
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Krataar posted:Just finished the first movie. Having actual context on the battle made it even better. Still not entirely sure whats going on. Yang is part of space america and Blondie is part of Space prussia. Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? Amazing though the show is, one of its flaws is that the strategies and tactics that the show presents as brilliant pearls ripped from the very mouth of the god of war are basically all "babby's first battle" stuff, presumably because they wanted to be super-duper sure that everyone watching would actually understand the tactics involved. As a result of that, the strategic problems being tackled are usually pretty simplistic, too, so instead of a wide front and breakthroughs and salients and encirclements and whatnot, you get "the entire war goes through this one place, don't let the bad guys through it, that's all you need to think about." It's particularly bad about this in the earliest episodes ("Have you guys considered maybe NOT being too far apart from each other?" "SHUT UP, YANG!"), but it does get a bit better by the end.
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May 5, 2015 11:22
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For anyone curious, in the LOGH-verse, the Iserlohn Corridor is one of two accessible and mapped routes between the settled portions of the Orion and Sagittarius arms of the galaxy. The distance between the two galactic arms as presented in the series is a conceit of the setting and provides the dominant strategic concern for both major powers, so really just run with it. Another explanation one can infer is that their FTL systems simply don't have the range to trivialize the distance between the two galactic arms and therefore safe travel requires moving from one settled star system to another and maintaining a steady stream of supplies, including fuel.
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May 5, 2015 12:26
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Krataar posted:Why is the death star such a big deal. Can't they just go around it? It's explained more clearly in the novels but ultimately it's still plot hand-waving, though, just go with it.
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May 5, 2015 16:39
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Tomn posted:Amazing though the show is, one of its flaws is that the strategies and tactics that the show presents as brilliant pearls ripped from the very mouth of the god of war are basically all "babby's first battle" stuff, presumably because they wanted to be super-duper sure that everyone watching would actually understand the tactics involved. As a result of that, the strategic problems being tackled are usually pretty simplistic, too, so instead of a wide front and breakthroughs and salients and encirclements and whatnot, you get "the entire war goes through this one place, don't let the bad guys through it, that's all you need to think about." The tactics are definitely played up for the viewer but I liked the idea that this is either because the entire series is an inaccurate historical documentary complete with an unreliable narrator or that the leaders of both militaries are incompetent since they only obtained their positions through politics, bribes or family ties while military tactics and doctrine have stagnated.
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May 5, 2015 16:52
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Kegslayer posted:The tactics are definitely played up for the viewer but I liked the idea that this is either because the entire series is an inaccurate historical documentary complete with an unreliable narrator or that the leaders of both militaries are incompetent since they only obtained their positions through politics, bribes or family ties while military tactics and doctrine have stagnated. While the real reason is always going to be that they were playing it up for the viewer, it WOULD make a certain kind of sense if they took a leaf from The Lost Fleet series, where everybody at the end of a multi-generational war ended up incompetent because all the people who had actual training got themselves killed off, leaving only the students who rushed into war half-trained only to get killed off themselves, and so on until all the people who knew how to manage any tactics more complicated than "Guns forward, engines backwards" were dead and nobody left had the time to relearn them because they were busy putting out fires everywhere until they forget that there WERE any tactics worth learning.
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May 5, 2015 20:58
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Thankfully, the drama and characters make up for any science inadequacies or lovely war tactics. I'm on the edge of my loving seat when space Nazi admirals are just ordering reverse thrusters to be set to max, and that's all that matters. I'd say my only real gripe with the series is the ridiculous Terraist characters that are literally 1980s Saturday morning cartoon villains..
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May 5, 2015 21:03
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In the middle of the second film. Blonde german man is going to crush them and tragic dying friend is going to bring out the alexander the conqueror in yang isnt he. Edit : Its like Ken Burns civil war. I love the music. This (assuming) tragic epic involving two titans wrestling and destroying everything everybody holds dear. Krataar fucked around with this message at 04:18 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 04:15
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DamnGlitch posted:It's a pretend narrative of a fake history and as such is very much like an actual history narrative in that sense; assuming you will not be shocked when certain things are dropped casually in the previews and episode titles. That said you have the whole series presumably so it's silly to watch the next episode previews and if you are tender about very blatant spoilers it would be wise to avoid them. I got spoiled about Episode 82 (poking around where I shouldn't have on the internet) and didn't have an effect on the impact of those events, but just trying to preserve a new viewer having an ~unspoiled experience~
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May 6, 2015 04:25
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Krataar posted:In the middle of the second film. Blonde german man is going to crush them and tragic dying friend is going to bring out the alexander the conqueror in yang isnt he. I was about to agree with you but the show is honestly a lot more nuanced than that. It might seem that way at the beginning but as the story developes you'll see both sides have legit benefits and weaknesses so it can't really be boiled down to good VS bad except the Terraists, gently caress those guys.
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May 6, 2015 04:38
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Not reading the thread or spoilers till im done. dude just died. Still sad. Even this early both groups have their problems. It just seems tragic. Edit: Im assuming these battles take much longer then portrayed? Krataar fucked around with this message at 04:53 on May 6, 2015 |
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May 6, 2015 04:45
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Krataar posted:Not reading the thread or spoilers till im done. dude just died. Still sad. Even this early both groups have their problems. It just seems tragic. I think the battles are supposed to be short because of the amount of raw firepower in a fleet that's pointing the same way.
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May 6, 2015 05:12
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The battle in the first handful of episodes lasts about 20 hours, doesn't it? The length of it is clearer than in the movie adaptation, which focuses more on the supporting casts and less on introducing the war.
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May 6, 2015 05:56
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Krataar posted:Not reading the thread or spoilers till im done. dude just died. Still sad. Even this early both groups have their problems. It just seems tragic. There are points where the narrator will say how long the battle is going on, or character might mention it, but yeah, most of the battles are taking up to days to end. It takes them 6-12 hours to get into firing range sometimes since we're talking about fleets going less than FTL. The scale is not always apparent since the show focuses on high ranking admirals most of the time, but it really hits hard when focus shifts to grunts and to men dying.
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May 6, 2015 06:04
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Krampus Grewcock posted:There are points where the narrator will say how long the battle is going on, or character might mention it, but yeah, most of the battles are taking up to days to end. It takes them 6-12 hours to get into firing range sometimes since we're talking about fleets going less than FTL. The scale is not always apparent since the show focuses on high ranking admirals most of the time, but it really hits hard when focus shifts to grunts and to men dying. Yeah. There are a few episodes where they show what it's like to be on a ship that's getting destroyed, and they don't pull punches. The show's animation isn't very good, but it's quite unnerving to see a man trying to stuff his intestines back into himself, and another dragging himself across the floor crying for his mother. There's nothing glorious about this war.
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May 6, 2015 06:34
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Ok, I got to the rebels moving on iserholn. Out of episodes i took with me on my trip. Ill try to grab some more. Completely hooked.
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May 7, 2015 04:49
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Oh, and if you're watching DVD/BR rips, don't be shocked by the jarring sudden change in animation style in the middle of scenes. They lost parts of the master copies and had to reanimate certain bits. Some people aren't bothered by it, but if you are, the laser disc rips are the way to go.
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May 7, 2015 15:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxozwqNMbq0 Some guy remade a theme
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May 22, 2015 00:50
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VostokProgram posted:Yeah. There are a few episodes where they show what it's like to be on a ship that's getting destroyed, and they don't pull punches. The show's animation isn't very good, but it's quite unnerving to see a man trying to stuff his intestines back into himself, and another dragging himself across the floor crying for his mother. There's nothing glorious about this war. Yeah i remember when I first got to this episode. It was the first time they had shown a ship destroying from the common soldier's perspective and it was really raw. a few other tips for the new watcher: 1. The animation improves throughout the series as they get more budget. First season is real bad and there are a lot of shots that are excuses not to animate much (looking at you moving sidewalks) but by the second season it picks up and the action sequences eventually become v. cool. 2. battles take anywhere from a few hours to a few days. i want to say some of the longer battles might even be a week or two?
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May 25, 2015 15:51
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Watched the entire series a couple months ago, have been prodding my weeb friends to watch it every since. If you're gonna watch fifty series in a summer, you might as well cut five of the shittiest ones and watch LoGH instead. My favorite part of the series was where they drove around on moon buggies and hacked at each other with axes
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Jun 3, 2015 13:46
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is there ever a good reason given why nobody just annexes phezzan? i mean i know sinister baldman is supposed to have political power because of money and sinister plot stuff but it seems to me that you'd need to have something to keep the space hitlers and ascots from just rolling over you on day 1 before you could get that power
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Jun 6, 2015 10:31
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Ernie Muppari posted:is there ever a good reason given why nobody just annexes phezzan? Because it's mutually beneficial for the Alliance and Empire to have a trade route and the only way for them to do that is through a "neutral" intermediary. Once the Alliance's number is up, the Empire doesn't need an autonomous Phezzan anymore because they can do whatever they want economically within the Alliance. I don't remember how explicitly they say this but I'm pretty sure Phezzan used to be just a regular old imperial world that successively bargained more and more autonomy from the central government in exchange for keeping the FPA trade open.
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Jun 6, 2015 12:44
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That's definitely a good take on how Phezzan came about, but it's also clear that the main barrier to an invasion/occupation of Phezzan is ideological. Why not invade? Well, because, uhh, you just wouldn't DO something like that! Both sides of the conflict are pretty much stuck in a rut as far as how you can go about making war on the other side. Reinhard's genius and audacity is recognizing the strategic situation without all the ideological baggage of his predecessors, at which point it's completely obvious that slamming your dick in the door of the Iserlohn corridor is stupid when there's a perfectly good path via Phezzan. It's a nice way to show the difference between Reinhard's and Yang's strengths as well - while Yang is able to predict that Reinhard would plan such an invasion, Yang wouldn't have come up with the idea in the first place - he just doesn't think ambitiously enough on his own. This is just one of the many ways the story consciously puts forward the idea that human ideologies and constructs (the state of Phezzan as an untouchable neutral entity, the Goldenbaum dynasty as sacrosanct, etc.) are impermanent - they last only as long as everyone believes in them, and when people stop believing in them there can be rapid and violent change.
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Jun 6, 2015 14:42
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Ernie Muppari posted:is there ever a good reason given why nobody just annexes phezzan? I haven't watched the series for a while but I think Phezzan was officially part of the Empire and facilitated a poo poo load of unofficial trade and information going between the Alliance and the Empire as it was the only corridor for civilian traffic. I don't think both sides bothered to annex it properly because Phezzan was giving money to both sides to make sure this would never happen. Stagnation and incompetence are pretty big themes and it was easier for Phezzan to identify and neutralize threats in a galaxy where nepotism and greed reign supreme. Reinhard is only able to win a lot of the times because he breaks conventions, clears out the corruption in society and promotes a strong culture of meritocracy. aparmenideanmonad posted:It's a nice way to show the difference between Reinhard's and Yang's strengths as well - while Yang is able to predict that Reinhard would plan such an invasion, Yang wouldn't have come up with the idea in the first place - he just doesn't think ambitiously enough on his own. I don't think Yang is unambitious but rather he's after different things. Yang wanted to study history and to live simply and would have easily accomplished that if he was born in a different time or place.
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Jun 6, 2015 15:01
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There's also the fact that up until the Alliance took a serious beating, it had pretty sizable reserve fleets guarding the Phezzan route (well, not inside the corridor itself, but on the FPA side) so invading that way for the Empire wouldn't get them any further than going through Iserlohn (and the Empire didn't seem all that interested in invading the FPA either, what with the focus on fortifications). Presumably they've tried the route before Phezzan got set up properly. The other way around and Phezzan is technically part of the Empire (which seem to have a way bigger fleet and more fortifications than the Alliance to slow things down) and plenty of bribed/corrupt politicians within the FPA to throw spanners in the works of any would be military plan to invade through there. The focus on the offensive for the FPA only makes political/Ideological sense, not militarily, they never have the numbers or economy to sustain an invasion except for brief moments when the nobles gets busy shooting each other. The upsides don't trump the cons up until the balance of power is shaken up enough as the show goes on.
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Jun 6, 2015 17:55
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Viz is going to be releasing the novels.
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Jul 2, 2015 21:56
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What a time to be alive.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:26
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They really aren't as good as the anime, but cool
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Jul 2, 2015 22:44
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Elotana posted:They really aren't as good as the anime, but cool The novels were just the prelude.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:45
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What Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
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Jul 2, 2015 22:47
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loving hooray.  Take a moment to think about how long this thread has been around, and how much things have changed since the beginning.
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Jul 2, 2015 22:53
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whoa wait poo poo what
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Jul 2, 2015 22:54
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