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Cochran conspired to vote out Brenda when she gave up the family reunion reward -- a somewhat naive but super unselfish move on her part which the edit purposely makes look like a big deal -- and despite his rationalisations would have got him nowhere if not for the fact that Erik decided to drop dead. Cochran would have been no better off with Eddie / Erik around than Brenda -- quite the opposite if anything -- it was an rear end in a top hat move that he figured would look like a "big move" cuz he's a socially awkward shut-in. Everyone on the jury visibly hated it, and he completely lost Erik. The game absolutely worked out for him but that's really only because he ended up next to the goatiest goats who ever goated in the final 3. Had Eddie or Erik survived, which was entirely likely because he couldn't possibly have been banking on winning final reward (lol), there's no way he would've won.
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Jun 2, 2015 11:35
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At no point should voting out a threatening player be considered an unacceptable move, particularly when there are only six people left. If Brenda wants to be mad at whoever voted her out, fine, but that vote was done completely unmaliciously even if it just happened to come after Brenda gave up a reward. Brenda was pursuing a final three without Cochran; he doesn't owe anything to her to keep her in another round just out of courtesy. e: Erik was a starving dunce, and Eddie was a dunce who seemed down to take Cochran to the F3 with Sherri. Brenda was comfortably the biggest threat of the three
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Jun 2, 2015 12:00
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But the (rear end in a top hat) move actually put him in a waaaay worse position. I disagree that Brenda was the clear strongest threat, Erik looked like he had bounced back -- and was just coming off a dominant challenge victory -- and his death by epilepsy is not exactly something Cochran is frickin planning for. Aside from that, Eddie is a constant challenge threat and let's not kid ourselves, the money is always on him to beat out Cochran. If Erik's brain doesn't implode, then the perceived "strength" of the threat is ultimately irrelevant anyway because any 2 outta 3 combination of Brenda/Erik/Eddie is gonna beat him at least once out of two remaining challenges -- Cochran's entire game at this point would then be reliant on numbers and rep, which by the way he just destroyed with his (rear end in a top hat) Brenda vote out. Here's how I imagine things playing out if Erik doesn't  . Erik is definitely not voting with Cochran at this point, and would likely indulge Cochran's "big game move" and convince noted dumbass/flipper/goat Sherri that she needs to join he and Eddie in making a big move themselves, by voting Cochran out. Also, the final challenge features a little bit of physicality and some block building/balancing, which Erik likely wins because it is absolutely in his wheelhouse. Cochran gets ousted.Even if, as you say, Cochran were to somehow survive and Erik being around meant that Cochran would have to bring Eddie into the final 3, given that we're now dealing with two remaining immunity challenges and tribal councils, he loses to Eddie in that scenario all day. I agree that Eddie's not the sharpest cat but this would end up being a popularity contest -- and Cochran ain't getting Erik's or Brenda's or even Reynold's vote -- and so I think Eddie's ultimately gonna be more popular. e. Sidenote, Brenda took it like a champ. If it were me, hoo boy 
Homestar Runner fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jun 2, 2015 |
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Jun 2, 2015 12:15
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that's a pretty compelling argument actually. after that tribal vote, Cochran probably doesn't win without Eric being medically out of the game. huh, guess he did get lucky
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Jun 2, 2015 13:55
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I feel like Andrea handled being voted out best out of anyone post-merge. She was voted out with an idol in her pocket and had nothing but 'holy crap guys, you totally got me. Good job.'. I think she's one of the craftier female players we've had the past few seasons at least. Not sure she would be able to go for the gold if they ever brought her back a third time (and I don't think she's popular enough to warrant it), however.
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Jun 2, 2015 14:34
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I've always thought Cochran got lucky and is one of the weaker winners. He really benefited from being being brought into this group of non-players and goats gathered by Phillip. None of them had the game or skill to make the most of that, except for maybe Andrea. Corinne was a bad player who blew the coup she and Malcolm were organizing by moving too quickly and trusting the wrong people. Malcolm became a target way early so he never had a chance without pulling a Mike before such a thing had been proven possible. Erik just up and died. And Dawn and Sherri existed to be super goats. I'm not angry at Cochran or anything. He played dirty and I don't much like his personality but he's not Russell or anything. I was just never very impressed by him. He's a competent game player, which gave him an edge on a terrible cast, but man did that season leave me cold. Also, his sitcom is terrible.
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Jun 2, 2015 20:39
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STAC Goat posted:Also, his sitcom is terrible. He did a live video stream at a wedding on periscope a few weeks ago and I told him that.. He thought it was pretty funny. I felt pretty bad and apologized. 
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Jun 2, 2015 22:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:I feel like Andrea handled being voted out best out of anyone post-merge. She was voted out with an idol in her pocket and had nothing but 'holy crap guys, you totally got me. Good job.'. I never liked her. I think she looks decent by comparison to the dummies she played with on Redemption Island. Jaime from China fits the archetype and is more compelling, if not a bit clumsy.
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Jun 3, 2015 08:38
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I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out.
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Jun 3, 2015 16:43
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Overdrift posted:I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out. I remember being disgusted but also cheering along during this one. I'd also like to see it come back.
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Jun 3, 2015 19:14
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Overdrift posted:I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out. They did it again in Fiji and South Pacific. In SP they really go into detail about how nasty of a challenge it was. Most of the contestants received mouth injuries in one way or another
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Jun 4, 2015 04:05
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I just finished re-watching fiji and have a few thoughts. Why didn't yau-man offer dreamz a vote for cassandra if he gives him the immunity necklace? I could also say earl, but I don't see yau voting for earl at all. It would at least be a tie (maybe even yau gets earl to vote cassandra), and dreamz would probably beat cassandra in a fire making contest. Imagine the alt-history of dreamz actually giving yau the necklace. The final tribal council would be much better. Based on the vote at the reunion, yau would win, but we all know that is hard to take as fact. Earl still might win, but it would at least be a good FTC. The other big change would be dreamz probably coming back for either fans vs favorites or maybe even heroes vs villains. Imagine the boner Jeff and casting would have over him honoring the deal. Dreamz could take yaus spot in FvF or maybe James spot in HvV. James could come back for Philippines taking russell's spot.
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Jun 4, 2015 14:02
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Somebody posted a link to the first episode of The Island a while back, I watched that and then caught the second episode live. In two episodes, there've been two major freakouts and two guys have had to leave due to lack of water only 4 days in. The first guy was a real piece of work with a huge chip on his shoulder, would have been quite the character on Survivor and it's worth it to watch at least the first one to see him lose it. It's a decent show with some good moments apart from all that, I'll stick around.
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Jun 7, 2015 03:38
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Okay so I am super super late, but I did read all of your comments. (I'm playing awful survivor and I'm down to the last 5  Having played it now, in a weird internet version, there is an awful lot of luck involved. You have to roll with the odd punches, but who the heck can come back from getting stuck with a team of horrible people? I don't like Mike at ALL. but who the crap else am I supposed to route for? I can't believe Shirin and her whiney butt is coming back. I hated her, then liked her, then finally decided she was a stupid whiny bitch, nomatter the circumstance. I will put $20 bucks Amazon or whatever that she is in the first 3 out next season? Anyone want to bet me? 
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Jun 7, 2015 06:35
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DoggPickle posted:I can't believe Shirin and her whiney butt is coming back. I hated her, then liked her, then finally decided she was a stupid whiny bitch, nomatter the circumstance. I will put $20 bucks Amazon or whatever that she is in the first 3 out next season? Anyone want to bet me? Somebody, maybe Rob Cesternino, said that her revelation that she's a millionaire during FTC might actually help her next season in that players might want to bring her to the end feeling that no one would want to give her more money. That makes sense but who the hell knows. I've been thinking about this past season, and I really didn't like it at all. There were some good moments and some decent characters, but the Probst hype machine definitely didn't help and I just can't get behind Mike as a satisfying winner. I've always considered challenge-whoring your way to the end as your only means of staying in the game to be impossible, and now that Mike has done it, I still see it more as an anomaly than anything. To have someone who was supposed to be out of the game from the final 9 on to make the FTC only because of challenges that can be completely random is just really unsatisfying to me. I wasn't a huge fan of Mike's anyways so that didn't help either (although he's been pretty great post-game on podcasts and stuff). I also can't help but compare it to SJDS, a season that was for the most part panned by fans and especially Probst. I think a lot of it might have been Cagayan hangover, which was an absolutely incredible season. I actually liked SJDS quite a bit as it was airing, but I think I like it even more now that we have another season pass that I can compare it to. I've come to the conclusion that Natalie was an absolutely incredible winner and I think I would put her in my top five best players of all time. Contrast her to Jeremy, who crashed and burned because "these people are so dumb". After he was voted out, she did the exact right thing in not making a stink about it and fit right back into the alliance. From there, she played against and accounted for the type of people she was in the game with more than anyone I can remember. Even if the people in the game were a bunch of dummies, Natalie realized it and managed to maneuver around them accordingly. The Alec vote switch should have hurt her big time, and I remember it was rightfully criticized on RHAP after it happened, but she correctly assessed that she could explain it away to Jon and ultimately got a "NBD" from him. The idol play both played up to the jury and importantly gained the loyalty of Jackie even though it was screwing over Baylor/Missy. It's just that she played so well against the hand she was dealt and the players she was put in the game with that I can't help but be really impressed. Put that together with a season that had some pretty interesting storylines and multiple players that had tradition "winner's edits" that got voted out at unpredictable times and in my eyes you have a pretty great season.
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Jun 7, 2015 19:52
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Challenges that can be completely random? You're saying he rolled the dice umteen times and got lucky? Mike earned those challenge wins. There are many viable ways to Sole Survivor and Mike made it through challenge domination, getting challenge threats out early and maintaining good relations with people who were voted out.
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Jun 7, 2015 21:16
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Yeah, I agree with Met. I feel like there is a reason that those physical challenges exist, and somehow it has just become uncool to back the person who is actually good at them. It's a very complicated game, but having that immunity necklace doesn't just keep you safe; it gives you a little power for a couple days. Otherwise, we'd just have survivor - survive high school.  But yeah, this season was pretty bad. In general, all the alliances stuck together even to their own detriment. There were a ton of awful people in general, and nobody that I actually wanted to win. The few interesting outliers (Carolyn and I already forgot his name) didn't DO anything correctly. This was a 3/10 season. Basically a partial 30 degree one thumb up.
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Jun 7, 2015 22:18
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It was a good season and those saying it wasn't Betta Relax Bro!
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Jun 8, 2015 01:01
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I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges. That doesn't take anything away from Mike's ability to perform again and again and again, but his streak occurred largely because no one was even the slightest bit viable as a challenger.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:02
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8/10 Mainly cause the jerks got what they deserved and that in itself feels satisfying. Entertainment value was at the top.
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Jun 8, 2015 05:54
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Narcissus1916 posted:I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges. So Mike's wins don't count because he won so hard he made his opponents look like chumps?
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Jun 8, 2015 06:55
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Narcissus1916 posted:I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges.  Met posted:Challenges that can be completely random? You're saying he rolled the dice umteen times and got lucky? Mike earned those challenge wins. Joaquin and Joe knocked out early by Mike.
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Jun 8, 2015 07:01
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Capt. Supermarket posted:Somebody, maybe Rob Cesternino, said that her revelation that she's a millionaire during FTC might actually help her next season in that players might want to bring her to the end feeling that no one would want to give her more money. That makes sense but who the hell knows. Speaking of Rob, I feel like he should be cuing up that fanfiction "I'm a teller of stories" audio drop about now
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Jun 8, 2015 09:18
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Smorgasbord posted:So Mike's wins don't count because he won so hard he made his opponents look like chumps? Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent.
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Jun 8, 2015 11:03
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JesusSinfulHands posted:Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent. Yep. Kim and Rob utterly neutralised any strategic threats to them but in slightly different ways. Rob by instantly identified and isolated his competition pre merge, then protected himself by gathering the shellshocked remnants with hilarious tactics like the buddy system. Kim on the other hand neutralised Sabrina, Alicia and Chelsea by convincing them all that she was their closest ally. They never really figured out she wasn't, and even if they had it would've been too late. Both were helped by the implosions of their opposing tribe but both played excellent risk free games and shouldn't be penalised for the lack of risk since they actively created that situation with their masterful play. Getting back on topic, if you can only be a challenge beast if you have a legit rival then I guess the only qualifiers are Terry (Aras) and Tom Westman (Ian). Did you see the schlubs Colby had his streak against? Hell I don't think you can say Yul or Adam were any real threat to Ozzy so he doesn't count either.
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Jun 8, 2015 11:24
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Propaganda Machine posted:Honestly, I'm just kind of stoked to be going into a season where the median age is like 40. That's going to be fun and different. Yeah, I like this too. I'm wondering if the final three from Worlds Apart (41, 52, 38) is the oldest final group in average in the show's history. Philippines might be higher.
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Jun 8, 2015 14:54
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JesusSinfulHands posted:Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent. Mike's win ratio 1 in 1. Rob's win ratio 1 in 4.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:18
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You can be a great player and still lose in Survivor. You can be a weak player and still win. If you want to bind yourself entirely to the final outcome then yeah, Boston Rob isn't as good as Mike, or as good as Fabio or Bob Crowley either. Mike got pretty lucky. It could've been editing but there was a time Sierra came seconds away from beating him in a challenge. And any of those challenges could've been a bit more random and not gone his way. But most every winner has some lucky thing bounce their way. Mike is eternally going to be a polarizing winner because he got to the end entirely on the strength of winning challenges. Personally I wouldn't put him as a top tier winner but that's just like my opinion man.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:38
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LostRook posted:Rob's win ratio 1 in 4. Winner and 2nd place (to his future wife) out of 4 tries is pretty respectable. I mean he's a far from invisible character too, so any time he plays he has a rather high chance of getting backstabbed.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:41
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Mike is a great winner but not the best player. He had lots of faults in his gameplay but he used the challenges to get to the end. He had enough charisma and social skills to get someone like Dan's vote after betraying him and we all know how bitter that man is. Ozzy got to the finals by winning challenges but that didn't win the game for him. Russel got to the finals with his alliance and strategy but that didn't win the game for him.
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Jun 8, 2015 15:59
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Spiky Ooze posted:Winner and 2nd place (to his future wife) out of 4 tries is pretty respectable. I mean he's a far from invisible character too, so any time he plays he has a rather high chance of getting backstabbed. A 2nd place that he engineered, and then asked her to marry him before the result was out. Rob won two seasons, he just metagamed his entire life for his first victory.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:05
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The challenges exist for a reason. Mike was a dead man walking for 6 straight challenges and he made himself immune every time. He didn't luck into that, he just worked harder to achieve those wins (with the one exception being his idol play - where he, per his RHAP, worked hard to find that as well while everyone else slacked off). Everyone who wins on Survivor deserves it in one way or another and Mike got his win by being against the ropes and putting up an impressive win streak, which jurors can't help but respect. Sure, Rob's win probably took a little more panache, but he didn't even have to schmooze the jurors because he made sure to eliminate everyone with a brain before the jury. And even though Kim did dominate, nobody can say that she was up against any challenge at all and she had that season tied up from the minute they stepped out there. At the very least Mike had some stiff competition in Carolyn and (unbelievably) Rodney, who was evidently very well liked by pretty much everyone. People compare Mike to Colby but Mike seems like a genuine guy who just enjoys Survivor and wants to have fun and be a good person instead of Colby who wants to be some slick movie star with his poo poo-eating grin. I feel like I'm starting to sound like I'm Mike's mom or something defending him, but I legitimately think s30 was pretty drat entertaining, and while it had some duds, it still delivered entertainment week over week. All that said, I'm re-watching Tocantins for the 4th time right now and that poo poo is such a great season. The way the editors frame Coach is loving beautiful. Everyone, if you haven't seen Tocantins and you have Amazon Prime, go watch it. If you have seen it, go watch it again. It's a thing of beauty. 
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Jun 8, 2015 16:06
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Did you hear me say "Dragonslayer"?
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Jun 8, 2015 16:07
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It's possible to think that Mike, Rob, and Kim all deserved their wins and also think that their wins are unsatisfying as a viewer.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:28
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mancalamania posted:It's possible to think that Mike, Rob, and Kim all deserved their wins and also think that their wins are unsatisfying as a viewer. Who in season 30 would have been a satisfying winner? As much as it pains me to say it, I think the only other satisfying winner would have been Rodney - and I'd feel pretty dirty about that.
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Jun 8, 2015 16:31
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Yeah Rodney or Carolyn
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Jun 8, 2015 17:00
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It would have been nice to see Rodney try and use his disappointing birthday as a way to get votes at FTC
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Jun 8, 2015 18:24
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So as much as the ending may seem unsatisfying for some people, I imagine the ending to be a lot worse if Dan had gone with Mike after the auction and having him sitting at the Final. I think that would have made for some horrible television and I'm just glad that at least we could see how some people make the game horrible but still somewhat interesting to watch. Waiting for the next season to enjoy some people with actual experience and maybe not have players who make me not want to watch because of their attitudes.
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Jun 8, 2015 18:28
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Whoa, I think people misunderstood me. Mike was a deserving winner and made for good television. I just think that, like most winners, there's a lot of luck involved. Probably the most baffling thing about Worlds Apart is how little No Collar tried to bond or shore up their numbers.
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Jun 8, 2015 20:15
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Narcissus1916 posted:Whoa, I think people misunderstood me. Mike was a deserving winner and made for good television. Nope, too late. Thread has decided Mike is the new Natalie and Carolyn is the new Russell.
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Jun 8, 2015 22:46
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