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Mira
Nov 29, 2009

Max illegality.

What would be the point otherwise?


Wait, what? I thought it was Michael too from a previous scene where Marlo instructs Chris to put one of the younger soldiers up to it.

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Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

Mira posted:

Wait, what? I thought it was Michael too from a previous scene where Marlo instructs Chris to put one of the younger soldiers up to it.

Here's the script(from google, can't vouch for accuracy but it's how I remember it):

quote:

Marlo: They jacking you up, pulling all your work out of them houses, right? Man, we can't have nobody snitching on us now.
Chris: We ain't sure it's that.
Marlo: What, you want to let it go? Risk it? Send a message. Maybe give it to your pup, get him started. You and Snoop, y'all lay low till this poo poo here blow down.
Chris: Boy worked for Bodie. First time, must be someone he didn't know.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


I think it turns out it was Michael anyway. I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure you see the shooter afterwards and it's Michael.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf

freebooter posted:

I just finished season 4 for the second time, and realised that it's not in fact Chris who kills Bodie, but some guy called O-Dog.

This is right. Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't O-Dog get shot in the season 5 apartment shootout with Omar?

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005

Thanks easter bunny!
bok bok!

wikipedia posted:

Bodie was seen getting into McNulty's car by Monk, one of Marlo's lieutenants, who later relayed this information to Marlo, who swiftly ordered his death. Later that night, Bodie is dealing with Poot and Spider when Chris and Snoop set up an ambush. Bodie decides to take a last stand, causing an unarmed Spider to retreat. Throughout the fourth season, Chris and Snoop murder various people by taking them into abandoned houses. All of the victims put up a minimal fight and are dispatched with ease. Bodie decides to be the sole exception to this and shouts "you ain't putting me in one of them empty rear end houses neither". Poot tries to reason with Bodie but Bodie shakes his head, realizing that he is ready to die for what he believes in. After Poot realizes he cannot convince him otherwise, he retreats. Shortly after Poot's departure, while Bodie is still focused on Chris and Snoop, O-Dog emerges from a doorway behind Bodie and shoots him twice in the head, killing him. When McNulty later asks Poot who had killed Bodie, Poot stated that he held McNulty responsible for his friend's murder since it happened after Marlo's lieutenant saw Bodie and McNulty together.

McNulty, having developed a genuine respect for Bodie throughout the season, is stricken with guilt. Bodie's death is what ultimately convinces McNulty to return to the Major Crime Unit, as he wishes to catch Marlo and end his violent ways.

Judging by his age at the start of the series, Bodie was around 20 years old when he was killed


The scene in question:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFkWPNJAy14

edit: beaten like Namond in a fight.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

forever whatever posted:

Isn't it Micheal? I think you see his face.

Whoops - I always confuse Chris and Michael by name. I meant Mike.

But, yeah, it's O-Dog. You specifically barely see his face, it's night-time and he's wearing a hoody. Chris previously advises Marlo not to send Mike, because he knows him, but Marlo doesn't flat out agree, so maybe that's why me and others assumed it was Mike.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

It's O-Dog, yeah. The first time I watched it I thought it was Michael as well, and thought it was Marlo asserting his authority over Chris or something since Chris had said Michael shouldn't be the one to do it. It made a lot more sense the next time around when I realized it was O-Dog.

I think my favorite realization on one of my many rewatches was picking up just how important Shamrock was, and how he was very much in the protege position to Stringer that Bodie felt like he was (or at least wanted to be). The first couple of times I viewed the show I kind of thought of him as "that other guy" who was more often than not there for comic relief ("friend of the family, is you taking notes on a criminal loving conspiracy?"), but he's the guy put into protected positions gradually rising up to basically be Stringer's shadow up until everything falls apart for the Barksdales.

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.
"Be subtle with it. You know what subtle means?"
"Laid back and poo poo."

ChikoDemono
Jul 10, 2007

He said that he would stay forever.

Forever wasn't very long...


"There's a b in subtle?"

Cape Cod Crab Chip
Feb 20, 2011

Now you don't have to suck meat from an exoskeleton!
You remember how to do this, Kimmy?

Kevyn
Mar 5, 2003

I just want to smile. Just once. I'd like to just, one time, go to Disney World and smile like the other boys and girls.
"The above referenced victim was prostate on the floor." Prostate on the floor... that's a victim alright.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Kevyn posted:

"The above referenced victim was prostate on the floor." Prostate on the floor... that's a victim alright.

....he poo poo himself?

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Jerusalem posted:

....he poo poo himself?

Probably evacuated.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Ainsley McTree posted:

Probably evacuated.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004



Very Dickensian.

RustyTrombone
Oct 23, 2007

by zen death robot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-f-5JXZmg4

Nice edit about D'Angelo.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

That was really good, and pretty drat heartbreaking too. I saw there were more edits telling character stories too, but I guess I didn't feel like feeling MORE depressed by watching them.

frenton
Aug 15, 2005

devil soup

Yeah, this is very very good. Thanks.

boner confessor
Apr 25, 2013

by R. Guyovich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoyq88niVEU

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

So thinking back to my not-so-recent anymore rewatch of season 4, it's interesting how the final episode has multiple examples of strong, stable characters being given the opportunity to dedicate themselves to helping the less fortunate who are at bad places in their lives. There's three:

Colvin > Namond
Carver > Randy
Kima > Bubbles (I think this is the last time she ever sees him?)

There was a discussion a while back about how it's maybe kind of hollow, that scene with Carver going apeshit on his steering wheel in the car - when if he was really committed to helping Randy he could register to be a foster parent and get him out of the group home in a few months. Someone else suggested that maybe that's the point, that it's the gap between what he would like to imagine himself doing, and what he's really going to do, because deep down he doesn't really want the lifechanging hassle of raising a kid he barely knows. Same thing happens with Kima and Bubbles - at the end of the day she's not willing to carry that weight. Colvin is the only one who does it.

IIRC this is repeated again at the end of season 5, when Prez knows full well what Dukie is getting up to, but doesn't choose to extend his help any further than a few hundred bucks and a pep talk. Dukie was his first student, somebody he knows is a good kid deep down, and he and his wife have a comfortable lifestyle and no kids. He could go the Colvin route... but he doesn't.

edit - I'm sounding judgmental on some of the characters but I don't mean to be. It's an interesting scenario, because it raises the uncomfortable question of how much you'd be willing to compromise your own comfort to help out somebody on the periphery of your life.

freebooter fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 29, 2015

Aces High
Mar 26, 2010

Nah! A little chocolate will do




I thought that was part of the "maturation" of Prez's character though? Like he is told time and again during season 4 to not get too attached to the kids because he will only know them for a year, maybe some of them he will know for more but hardly any. When Dukie approaches him Prez asks questions about what he wants the money for, he asks him if he needs a ride downtown so he can register, all the stuff that he should do, he even tells him that if he is using the money for drugs then he can't help him anymore, and when he sees confirmation of the path Dukie is going down he keeps his promise.

I always felt the reason Prez did that wasn't because he didn't want to compromise his own lifestyle it was because he was finally in a place where he was happy and everyone who worked around him told him to not get too close with any of his students because it would wear him out and within a few years he'd be just as hosed up as the kids he's supposed to teach. This show has always been about showing you that the institutions destroy well-intentioned people and Prez is no different, but then that is probably because he is still IN the system. Bunny could adopt Naymond because he was out of the system, he'd already had his pension ruined when he retired and most of his jobs in retirement he kept leaving because he wouldn't compromise his character and he had the freedom to exercise that. Kima, Carver, Prez, they are all still young (relatively speaking) and can't take unnecessary risks with their lifestyles otherwise they will end up just as bad as the people they are trying to help.

Out of the three I would say that it is Carver that does the least in his situation and that is a big reason why it is such a powerful scene when Randy chastises him asking "what are you going to do for me, Sgt. Carver?". Kima goes and sees Bubbles at the facility, she brings Walon and then leaves because she isn't really qualified to help Bubbles anymore because she admits that she doesn't know what to do anymore. Prez makes the case that Dukie should not go on to high school as he isn't emotionally ready for it and the administrator shuts him down saying that he can't help the kids, and if he does he will burn out and be useless within a few years.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

I know I shouldn't be posting in this thread yet, since I'm doing my first watch (there will be MANY more) and I'm only on S5E4, but does Prez come back? :ohdear:

I'm not planning on reading what I can only (seriously) assume is some great dissertations you goons are writing until I'm ACTUALLY done.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

Aces High posted:

I thought that was part of the "maturation" of Prez's character though? Like he is told time and again during season 4 to not get too attached to the kids because he will only know them for a year, maybe some of them he will know for more but hardly any. When Dukie approaches him Prez asks questions about what he wants the money for, he asks him if he needs a ride downtown so he can register, all the stuff that he should do, he even tells him that if he is using the money for drugs then he can't help him anymore, and when he sees confirmation of the path Dukie is going down he keeps his promise.

I always felt the reason Prez did that wasn't because he didn't want to compromise his own lifestyle it was because he was finally in a place where he was happy and everyone who worked around him told him to not get too close with any of his students because it would wear him out and within a few years he'd be just as hosed up as the kids he's supposed to teach. This show has always been about showing you that the institutions destroy well-intentioned people and Prez is no different, but then that is probably because he is still IN the system. Bunny could adopt Naymond because he was out of the system, he'd already had his pension ruined when he retired and most of his jobs in retirement he kept leaving because he wouldn't compromise his character and he had the freedom to exercise that. Kima, Carver, Prez, they are all still young (relatively speaking) and can't take unnecessary risks with their lifestyles otherwise they will end up just as bad as the people they are trying to help.

Out of the three I would say that it is Carver that does the least in his situation and that is a big reason why it is such a powerful scene when Randy chastises him asking "what are you going to do for me, Sgt. Carver?". Kima goes and sees Bubbles at the facility, she brings Walon and then leaves because she isn't really qualified to help Bubbles anymore because she admits that she doesn't know what to do anymore. Prez makes the case that Dukie should not go on to high school as he isn't emotionally ready for it and the administrator shuts him down saying that he can't help the kids, and if he does he will burn out and be useless within a few years.

Good points about Colvin being out of the system. I did think of how Prez was warned not to get too attached to the kids, but felt that that was more of an overarching warning about all the kids in general - whereas the first one you really get attached to, just one, you could take on just one. Is Dukie even on drugs at that point? I haven't got to the end of my season 5 rewatch but IIRC he's just getting the money for them so that the other druggie homeless guys will let him live with them. Which he wouldn't have to do if Prez let him sleep on his couch.

Also that scene with Randy, "what are you going to do for me," comes after his foster mother gets burned. Then in the next episode Carver is genuinely trying to do as much as he possibly can for him. I actually kinda think the whole thing about "it takes months to get registered as a foster parent" was handwaving on the part of the writers - they wanted to show a crushing situation in which a kid gets taken into the system and has no hope, but had also written Carver to be a nice enough guy that he's genuinely take Randy in, if he could. So they had to come up with a reason why he couldn't.

UFOTacoMan
Sep 22, 2005

Thanks easter bunny!
bok bok!

That was really cool.


Interesting as it is, I couldn't finish it. It is what it is.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf
Just finished another runthrough. Sometime soon I may write up an analysis of the intros to each season. Dunno.

But anyway so I was drunk and watching the series and thinking about how it stands up. And it stands up just fine. Watching it now--ten years later--is like unearthing a time capsule from a run of years that feel like yesterday to me but aren't. It's a pleasure to go back there--and one of the things the Wire does so well is capture the (ugh) zeitgeist of that time, like Generation Kill does. And I was thinking of maybe doing an effort with Generation Kill similar to what Jerusalem and Escape Artist did with The Wire. An episode by episode analysis. Anyone interested?

Thaddius the Large
Jul 5, 2006

It's in the five-hole!
The other thing to bear in mind about Prez being told not to get too attached, it's also not healthy for the kids if he gets too attached to them; that is, if he sets himself up as the biggest support in their lives, what happens when they're promoted out of his class and they no longer have access to him? That kind of loss can be hugely traumatic and destabilizing for kids who already struggle to form safe and appropriate attachment to adult figures, often it's much better that all adults stay within the defined role of their job to avoid further hurting the kids. In my work we're taught to do that specifically because we're intended as temporary figures in their lives, and that it's better we teach them to thrive (as best we can) using the existing supports in their lives, because a transitory figure won't serve as a support nearly as well as a permanent one, even if the permanent figure is less "preferable". Whether it's the best approach is certainly debatable, but I can at least attest I've seen situations where kids become hugely bonded to a temporary adult figure, and it's been to the kid's overall detriment. It's an policy where, appropriately enough in the context of this discussion as something brought up by the Wire, while there are strong arguments to be made for and against it, the answer is probably a murky, gray area in the middle.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

3Romeo posted:

Just finished another runthrough. Sometime soon I may write up an analysis of the intros to each season. Dunno.

But anyway so I was drunk and watching the series and thinking about how it stands up. And it stands up just fine. Watching it now--ten years later--is like unearthing a time capsule from a run of years that feel like yesterday to me but aren't. It's a pleasure to go back there--and one of the things the Wire does so well is capture the (ugh) zeitgeist of that time, like Generation Kill does. And I was thinking of maybe doing an effort with Generation Kill similar to what Jerusalem and Escape Artist did with The Wire. An episode by episode analysis. Anyone interested?

Would love to read this, absolutely.

forever whatever
Sep 28, 2007

Hitting the wall.

3Romeo posted:

But anyway so I was drunk and watching the series and thinking about how it stands up. And it stands up just fine. Watching it now--ten years later--is like unearthing a time capsule from a run of years that feel like yesterday to me but aren't. It's a pleasure to go back there--and one of the things the Wire does so well is capture the (ugh) zeitgeist of that time, like Generation Kill does. And I was thinking of maybe doing an effort with Generation Kill similar to what Jerusalem and Escape Artist did with The Wire. An episode by episode analysis. Anyone interested?

Yea, this would be cool, and force me to rewatch Generation Kill, which I haven't seen in years (a few years after I came back from Iraq myself, albeit I didn't do a tour as bad as what you see in kill, it was still very relatable).

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011

3Romeo posted:

Just finished another runthrough. Sometime soon I may write up an analysis of the intros to each season. Dunno.

But anyway so I was drunk and watching the series and thinking about how it stands up. And it stands up just fine. Watching it now--ten years later--is like unearthing a time capsule from a run of years that feel like yesterday to me but aren't. It's a pleasure to go back there--and one of the things the Wire does so well is capture the (ugh) zeitgeist of that time, like Generation Kill does. And I was thinking of maybe doing an effort with Generation Kill similar to what Jerusalem and Escape Artist did with The Wire. An episode by episode analysis. Anyone interested?

Read Fick's autobiography while you're at it, it adds a fair bit of context.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


3Romeo posted:

Just finished another runthrough. Sometime soon I may write up an analysis of the intros to each season. Dunno.

But anyway so I was drunk and watching the series and thinking about how it stands up. And it stands up just fine. Watching it now--ten years later--is like unearthing a time capsule from a run of years that feel like yesterday to me but aren't. It's a pleasure to go back there--and one of the things the Wire does so well is capture the (ugh) zeitgeist of that time, like Generation Kill does. And I was thinking of maybe doing an effort with Generation Kill similar to what Jerusalem and Escape Artist did with The Wire. An episode by episode analysis. Anyone interested?

Yes! I only watched that series once, and I feel like I missed a lot, so I'd love to do a rewatch.

If only to watch Ziggy's actor play a character I don't hate.

Grumpwagon
May 6, 2007
I am a giant assfuck who needs to harden the fuck up.

the JJ posted:

Read Fick's autobiography while you're at it, it adds a fair bit of context.

This, and the Generation Kill book itself is also good.

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf
Sounds good. I'll spend the week getting materials together for an introductory/first episode post, and plan for new episode reviews on a bi-weekly basis. (Incidentally, if anyone wants to do a write-up of an episode, feel free to volunteer. They can be a pain in the rear end, but they really give you a deeper understanding of what you're watching. The write-up I did for S3Ep1 of The Wire was a blast.)

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Looking forward to it. I have high expectations 3Romeo. No pressure though.

forever whatever
Sep 28, 2007

Hitting the wall.
Hey, just wanted to say that I'd like to volunteer to do a write up of an episode, I just realized that it's streaming on Amazon Prime right before I went downtown to rent it! I never did a Wire write up but I've read about a third of them and I think I am up to the task. Also for what it's worth, I served in Iraq from 2004-2005 (albeit combat support in the army, I wasn't a grunt or a Marine), so I might be able to lend some unique perspective. I'm going to start watching from the beginning today, and I'm sure I'll need a few days to give an episode I write up its due attention, so I'm thinking an episode that is either #3 or after (it's a 7 part series for those of you that haven't seen it). Just wanted to ask permission to take on the task, let me know what you think!

Asbury
Mar 23, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 years!
Hair Elf

forever whatever posted:

Hey, just wanted to say that I'd like to volunteer to do a write up of an episode, I just realized that it's streaming on Amazon Prime right before I went downtown to rent it! I never did a Wire write up but I've read about a third of them and I think I am up to the task. Also for what it's worth, I served in Iraq from 2004-2005 (albeit combat support in the army, I wasn't a grunt or a Marine), so I might be able to lend some unique perspective. I'm going to start watching from the beginning today, and I'm sure I'll need a few days to give an episode I write up its due attention, so I'm thinking an episode that is either #3 or after (it's a 7 part series for those of you that haven't seen it). Just wanted to ask permission to take on the task, let me know what you think!

Sounds good. I'm looking forward to other veterans' views--it'll give a nice range of perspectives! Once I get the ball rolling and get the first ep posted, we can work out which one(s) in particular you'd like to do.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

It's fascinating how rewatches focus your attention. I'm approaching the end of my first re-watch, in which I kept a close eye out for the first appearances of Slim Charles and Cheese - characters introduced early who later turn out to be very important. And now I know that on my third rewatch I'm going to be keeping an eye out for Fat Face Rick. ("You kill Joe?... Didn't think so.")

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I've watched this show a million times, but one thing that seems weird is, why are they doing controlled buys on drug dealers at the start of season 2? They don't have any explicit drug connections with anyone, are they shooting in the dark hoping to find a port connection? They act like it's a sure thing as soon as the detail is set up, obviously they are gonna go bust drug dealers in the southeastern, because....??? It doesn't really help that it is genuinely fruitful by the end of the season, that's not a good enough retroactive justification in my head, it still seems way too unlikely. It's a complete coincidence and I don't get the motivation in the first place.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


If there's smuggling going on at the docks it's probably fair to assume at least part of it's related to the drug trade.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

YF-23 posted:

If there's smuggling going on at the docks it's probably fair to assume at least part of it's related to the drug trade.

Yeah but is that really enough to go on? They should have been ready if they did get leads there, but random drug deals that happen to be in the area? That's a huge stretch. It's not like they bought from random west side dealers until they stumbled upon avon/marlo/etc, they went after specific targets. It just seems too loose. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Herc is talking about drug buys before they even go talk to Frank.

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

If I'm remembering right, even after Daniels is brought onboard to "do things right", isn't the Detail's first case still mainly about paying lip-service to Valchek's obsession with Sobotka? Daniels is basically spreading a wide net in order to try and track back some kind of connection to the docks (and hopefully Sobotka) so they can keep Valchek happy. THEN as Daniels reward for doing that solid for Burrell he gets to actually do a "real" case. Then of course as the case goes on, they figure out that Valchek's pettiness has inadvertently stumbled them onto a HUGE case and the closest they ever get to nabbing one of the actual big fish in the criminal world.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Yeah but is that really enough to go on? They should have been ready if they did get leads there, but random drug deals that happen to be in the area? That's a huge stretch. It's not like they bought from random west side dealers until they stumbled upon avon/marlo/etc, they went after specific targets. It just seems too loose. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Herc is talking about drug buys before they even go talk to Frank.

Sobotka has more money than he should, and Daniels knows that usually when that happens there is likely to be a connection to drugs somewhere down the road. Frank of course was getting paid to facilitate a smuggling operation that only tangentially included drugs, and Daniels only turned out to be right because Nick and Ziggy got greedy, but it made sense for Daniels to go in that direction just because in most cases involving the working poor and large amounts of money, drugs are going to be involved somewhere.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 11, 2015

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