Let's Wear Black: A Gothic Total War/Paradox Mega-LP

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crimea: Nov 16, 2012; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Call me boring but I'd say Red is the one to go for, if only to put the poor West out of its misery.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:11

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# ? May 11, 2024 13:36

Jimmy4400nav: Apr 1, 2011; Ambassador to Moonlandia

Republican Sardinia and the Two Southern Kingdoms posted:

The Western Roman Remnant was united under a string of successful warlords that managed to carve out a number of victories and from them fortifications. However such arraignments proved difficult to maintain in the long term as the sea power of the WRE was concentrated primarily on its island holdings, where the tentative capital was established in Sardinia. Conversely, the main portion of land forces for the remnant was concentrated in southern Hispania. With such a division of power, conflict was inevitable. Eventually the south of Hispania, chaffing under the distant rule of Sardinia broke away, establishing their own kingdom. With little in the way of land power, the island of Sardinia looked to leverage its sea power for mercantile and military endeavors. Over time, the positioning of Sardinia allowed a relatively strong trading economy to take hold, and with the resurgence of commercial activity, saw a return of the patrician class. In southern Hispania though., the situation deteriorated, the southern Hispanic kingdom fractured due to infighting, and now instead of one powerful realm, stands as two fractured sub units.

Sardinia becomes an independent merchant republic, and the south of Hispania has a kingdom level title that can be created for it (kind of like a kingdom of Aquitaine), but is divided between two independent dukedoms at the start.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:15

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Randarkman posted:

I guess you could go with my idea which is to restrict the HRE to low enough crown authority to allow its vassals to always be able to declare their own wars of expansion, which would at the very least allow them to expand against weaker countries. Maybe also vassalize some holy orders to the vassals to boost up their manpower or something, or just give catholicism a bunch of holy orders in general.

e: Or a different more powerful version of this is to give the pope one king level vassal, who is the liege of all other secular rulers in the HRE, ensure that this vassal can wawge wars outside the realm and the HRE might be able to expand while still being ruled by the Papacy. Mabye call this king something like the Divine Legate or something stupid like that, to represent his position as the leader of the Pope's armies, and make the title elective.

Something like this for the organiztion of the HRE maybe. In which case the Divine Legate and holy orders will be able to wage wars of expansion in the name of the Pope outside of Crusades, provided crown authority is sufficiently low.
code:
                                                   Pope
                                                     |
                                                     |
                           --------------------------|---------------------------------------
                           |                         |                                      |
                    Holy Orders                      |                              Lords Spiritual
     (Mostly in the northern borderland)             |        (Bishops ruling major population centers well removed from the heathens and heretics to the north)
                                                     |
                                            "Divine Legate" (Elected)
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                                     |
                                    Dux-level feudal vassals and below
               Mostly controlling castles in north and central Italy and the hinterlands of the south

I like this arrangement, I think it would work. If I were to add some suggestions it would that the "Divine Legate" be named "Dux Bellorum" in game, say that they were originally Legates who were loyal to the pope and as such were granted land, becoming Dux, and granted the honor of being war leaders, and so becoming Dux Bellorum.

Keep the titles elective, to represent that these people are elected by their legions, or in a more oligarchic fashion, by their own Legates.

Perhaps there could be three Dux Bellorum, one in the Northern Italy, the capital at Mediolanum, one in Central vItaly along with Corsica et Sardinia, it's capital at Norcia or somewhere appropriate (Rome is capital of the Pope, of course) and one in the boot of Italy and Sicily, the capital at Neapolis.

These Duces Bellorum could be given high centralization and probably even Imperial administration, the point of this would be mainly so that they could muster the highest amount of levies they possibly can.

Under them could be duchy viceroyalties, ruled by Legates or something, representing the Dux Bellorum putting his best generals in charge of defense of land.

The actual crown laws of the HRE (for the Pope) would be low enough so that the Dux Bellorum can start wars by themselves.

I think this would be pretty cool, and is pretty interesting compared to CK2 since we have basically all elected or appointed offices here.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:16

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

THE LESBIATHAN posted:

This dude knows what's up.

All the romes

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:18

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Randarkman posted:

I'm not sure how good it would look but shouldn't it be it be imperial purple? With the Pope having taking on the role and position of the Roman Emperor and all.

Well, my argumentation was that since the Pope and his realm hates anything imperial now, they choose a different color. Red was the color of old legionary vexillums, it represents the blood of christ and eternal salvation, and most importantly, it's not associated with imperial decadence and corruption.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:19

Bozart: Oct 28, 2006; Give me the finger.

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Sardinia becomes an independent merchant republic, and the south of Hispania has a kingdom level title that can be created for it (kind of like a kingdom of Aquitaine), but is divided between two independent dukedoms at the start.

I like it

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:19

Dr. Tough: Oct 22, 2007

This sounds fine to me.

edit: somehow managed to link the wrong picture

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:20

mcclay: Jul 8, 2013; Oh dear oh gosh oh darn; Soiled Meat

This guy, he knows his stuff.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:21

Soup du Jour: Sep 8, 2011; I always knew I'd die with a headache.

Two Rome Limit:

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:23

ZearothK: Aug 25, 2008; I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

I want some Roman colonies off in America and this seems the way to go, though I do think the capital should have moved somewhere more central in these three hundred years.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:26

Rejected Fate: Aug 5, 2011

A Trinity of Romes.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:38

oystertoadfish: Jun 17, 2003

it's all coming together for Secret Rome across the ocean

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:40

GrossMurpel: Apr 8, 2011

There's only one true Rome! (give or take 2)

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:41

Grizzwold: Jan 27, 2012; Posters off the pork bow!

Jimmy4400nav posted:

Sardinia becomes an independent merchant republic, and the south of Hispania has a kingdom level title that can be created for it (kind of like a kingdom of Aquitaine), but is divided between two independent dukedoms at the start.

Merchant republic of ~~Sardinia~~ Rome gets my vote.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:41

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Good idea

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:41

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

Two Romes isn't enough

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:47

Freudian: Mar 23, 2011

Caralian is a cool word.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:49

Smoky Bandana: Oct 1, 2009; You can trip on my synthesizer.

Go to bed, Rome. You're drunk.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:49

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

ZearothK posted:

I want some Roman colonies off in America and this seems the way to go, though I do think the capital should have moved somewhere more central in these three hundred years.

I dunno, it's kind of fittingly Dominatey to have your Emperor so isolated he rules the land from a remote island Super Stronghold.

By the by Of, if this wins you should alter Sardinia into a tricked out super province ala Constantinople.

E: well iirc ck2 has Sardinia as two counties but you know what I mean.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:50

GSD: May 10, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

Less blobby, and less romey.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:53

YF-23: Feb 17, 2011; My god, it's full of cat!

Rome may be weak, but it will never die. Probably.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:53

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

Im going to assume Islam is still a thing in this alternate universe.

The Western Roman Remnant was in dire straits until its conversion and integration into the Islamic Caliphate, which had managed to steamroll the weakened Byzantine and separatist states that were left in the area.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:55

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

Rome here, Rome there, Rome everywhere.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:55

rakovsky maybe: Nov 4, 2008

This but I also think the capital should be moved to somewhere in Hispania.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 20:59

BwenGun: Dec 1, 2013

Though ideally with some internal problems to prevent it blobbing too easily across North Africa.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:01

Lord Cyrahzax: Oct 11, 2012

Freudian posted:

Caralian is a cool word.

Agreed.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:01

Empress Theonora: Feb 19, 2001; She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

Mostly just because I want to see them fight the Pope.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:03

tallboarLittlehand: Sep 7, 2011

I vote for the red guy because that's just to many Romes.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:08

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

if nothing else the Key-Rho should be the symbol for Italic Catholicism

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:09

Merdifex: May 13, 2015; by Shine

Sell-sword Kings or The Rule of Five Warlords

The final days of the the Hispanic remnant of the WRE was tumultuous, violent, and bloody. No emperor was strong enough to stop the infighting between petty lords, his legions, powerful merchants in the cities, and the church.

It wasn't long until open war broke out, not between a few factions, but every powerful man had at least a few hundred men devoted to him. But then there were those who were rich, but no one liked them enough to fight to the death for them. The solution presented itself in the form of opportunistic legionaries, sick of the fact that the Emperor couldn't provide for their needs, who deserted and offered to fight for whoever they'll pay. Styling themselves as free brothers, these coalitions of mercenaries came to be known simply as the Empti, The Purchased.

Within decades these mercenary groups grew so large and so powerful that their masters soon couldn't refuse the ludicrous paychecks these men demanded, and in such cases, the solution was to kill the master, his family, and loot everything he had to his name. Confiscate his property, take over his lands. Now, not only did these mercenaries have a massive amount of gold, they now controlled actual territory as well.

This went on for decades until there were only five mercenary groups left, all united under five powerful warlords:

-The Asturian Clique, occupies the former Roman districtof Asturiae-Calleciae with its capital at Astorga (Asturica Augusta)
-The Tarraconian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Tarraconensis with its capital at Tarraco
-The Carthaginensian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Carthaginensis with it's capital at Carthago Nova
-The Lusitanian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Lusitania with it's capital at Scalabis Iulia
-The Baetican Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Baetica with it's capital at the formerly temporary Roman capital at Cordoba

All these are duke level titles and are open elective, much like mercenaries already in the game. Powerful enough elected leaders, given they have gold or whatever else, can enact a decision to move to a feudal administration and form a dynasty. These realms all have a high enough crown law that they don't have any vassals, to represent the iron-fisted rule of a mercenary turned military dictator (who is elected by his cohorts.)

What else? The WRE survives as a titular title, as a OPM on Mallorca. The emperor has imperial administration, high crown laws, and claims on every kingdom level title within the former WRE. He exists for comedic purposes.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:14

Luhood: Nov 13, 2012

Quit Roming around!

Edit:
Though with a dash of:

Merdifex posted:

Invasion of the Britons

Very similar to:

With the exception that the entire north of Hispania, including Asturias and large swathes of Tarraconensis, was invaded and settled by Britons from, well, Britain.

Fleeing Romano-British oppression in their own lands, they sailed forth with their best warriors and reached lands far and wide. Their attempted invasion of Armorica was repelled by the Goths, and so they finally found refuge in Hispania. The local lords were weak, and the invasion saw little in the way of obstruction.

They established many petty kingdoms and a few duchies, and were more than able to defend themselves from the weak remnants of the WRE in the south.

In time, they developed an unique culture, calling themselves the "Brythons" after the Latin name for them. They ruled over a mostly Hispano-Roman populace, but many areas of the north were largely depopulated, and the Brythons made up the majority in these areas, their Celtic tongue becoming the lingua franca.

Perhaps in time, a strong ruler will appear and unite all the disparate Brythonic realms, and establish the Kingdom of Brythonia.

The Brythons mostly picked up Arian Christianity from from the Goths, but many bought with them the worship of the old gods. Some druids remain in Asturia, although their religion is not the majority one.

The rest of the WRE, shattered by the Brythonic invasions and shattering apart at the centre, fell apart into smaller kingdoms under fledgling dynasties.

PLAN
Spread of Brythonic culture

Area under direct Brythonic rule

TL;DR : Celts in northern Spain.

Luhood fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Jun 13, 2015

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:16

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:17

Frionnel: May 7, 2010; Friends are what make testing worth it.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:21

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Merdifex posted:

Sell-sword Kings or The Rule of Five Warlords

The final days of the the Hispanic remnant of the WRE was tumultuous, violent, and bloody. No emperor was strong enough to stop the infighting between petty lords, his legions, powerful merchants in the cities, and the church.

It wasn't long until open war broke out, not between a few factions, but every powerful man had at least a few hundred men devoted to him. But then there were those who were rich, but no one liked them enough to fight to the death for them. The solution presented itself in the form of opportunistic legionaries, sick of the fact that the Emperor couldn't provide for their needs, who deserted and offered to fight for whoever they'll pay. Styling themselves as free brothers, these coalitions of mercenaries came to be known simply as the Empti, The Purchased.

Within decades these mercenary groups grew so large and so powerful that their masters soon couldn't refuse the ludicrous paychecks these men demanded, and in such cases, the solution was to kill the master, his family, and loot everything he had to his name. Confiscate his property, take over his lands. Now, not only did these mercenaries have a massive amount of gold, they now controlled actual territory as well.

This went on for decades until there were only five mercenary groups left, all united under five powerful warlords:

-The Asturian Clique, occupies the former Roman districtof Asturiae-Calleciae with its capital at Astorga (Asturica Augusta)
-The Tarraconian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Tarraconensis with its capital at Tarraco
-The Carthaginensian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Carthaginensis with it's capital at Carthago Nova
-The Lusitanian Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Lusitania with it's capital at Scalabis Iulia
-The Baetican Clique, occupies the former Roman district of Baetica with it's capital at the formerly temporary Roman capital at Cordoba

All these are duke level titles and are open elective, much like mercenaries already in the game. Powerful enough elected leaders, given they have gold or whatever else, can enact a decision to move to a feudal administration and form a dynasty. These realms all have a high enough crown law that they don't have any vassals, to represent the iron-fisted rule of a mercenary turned military dictator (who is elected by his cohorts.)

What else? The WRE survives as a titular title, as a OPM on Mallorca. The emperor has imperial administration, high crown laws, and claims on every kingdom level title within the former WRE. He exists for comedic purposes.

My only concern with this (And the Pope-run HRE) is that those kingdoms are going to be unplayable from a gameplay standpoint.

If this is turned into a mod, there will be two regions locked out to the player.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:24

AJ_Impy: Jun 17, 2007; SWORD OF SMATTAS. CAN YOU NOT HEAR A WORLD CRY OUT FOR JUSTICE? WHEN WILL YOU DELIVER IT?; Yam Slacker

All glory to Hispanian Rome, true heirs of Empire! Death to the false Rome, cunningly located in the true Rome! Commence the Reconquista!

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:25

Raserys: Aug 22, 2011; IT'S YA BOY

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:25

GSD: May 10, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

My only concern with this (And the Pope-run HRE) is that those kingdoms are going to be unplayable from a gameplay standpoint.

If this is turned into a mod, there will be two regions locked out to the player.

Landed mercenary companies are actually entirely playable. The fact that they can't marry hurts, due to the lack of wife-stats, but otherwise they play normally.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:27

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:28

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

GSD posted:

Landed mercenary companies are actually entirely playable. The fact that they can't marry hurts, due to the lack of wife-stats, but otherwise they play normally.

I'm pretty sure you need to use the console to do that.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:30

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# ? May 11, 2024 13:36

Toningly: Sep 28, 2006

In the last update I think the Suebi and Alemans were still migrating around the Pyrenees, so they should have their own kingdoms too.

# ? Jun 12, 2015 21:35

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