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Bholder posted:Are you guys just looking for excuses to say "the writing is wrong"? The thing is, lots of those questions are answered in New Vegas. There's all sorts of wild plant life that Geckos (And the Courier) can eat, Radscorpions and Radroaches are the result of FEV in addition to radiation exposure (And Cazadores were specifically designed in a lab), segways exist and depending on the design rocket launchers are recoilless, the Hoover Dam and Helios One (If you fix it), and for the life of me I could not tell you.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:46
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ShadowMar posted:no but if you care about anything at all that means you're a sperg because as a goon i can't understand basic concepts is it really that hard to just run around and be a shooty mans? if you're going to run a fine tooth comb through every game you play and analyze every detail because ~immersion~ or whatever, you're always going to be disappointed. if you find something silly like a bug or an inconsistency, laugh at it and keep going. hell, finding stuff like that is half of the fun of the games, and i don't want it fixed. like when you see rivet city, the correct response is to say "fuckin rights, a big rear end boat city!" not "hmmm, this boat is in a state of disrepair that surely would've led to it sinking over the last hundred years. problematic." you're not going to get novel level detail from a video game. suck it up or go read a book.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:47
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guys calm down i promise you'll see more tonight stop going crazy and attacking each other over how video game characters eat
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Jun 14, 2015 16:49
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Eonwe posted:guys calm down i promise you'll see more tonight How can they chew their food if they can't even lip sync properly!? Everything's hosed!
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Jun 14, 2015 16:50
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2house2fly posted:The whole "what do they eat" thing is largely because of that Shandification Of Fallout video and it's pretty overblown imo; Technically, the point of the Shandification of Fallout isn't literally "what do they eat", but "how far have they taken their game simulation to represent a literal realistic place where questions aren't just met with more questions". New Vegas as a simulation isn't perfect, but it goes to a pretty far out length to establish how everything ties together, from the politics of Mr. House to the expansion of the NCR and the motivations of the Legion, evil as they might be. I get what they were going for a lot of the time in Fallout 3, but it often falls just a bit flat. And I don't think it's an extremely controversial opinion to have to say that Bethesda has really lovely writing ever since after they released Morrowind. Oblivion, Skyrim and Fallout 3, while impressive games, have really fallen short in the story aspect. And when the story is the setting, as it always is in open world games, that is going to show seams down the line. That is why I don't find it extremely surprising that some people enjoyed Oblivion, but can't find anything to enjoy about Skyrim or vice-versa. There are seams and it is tearing the games apart and people can't really quite pick out where this weakness comes from. I don't think Bethesda can fix that without better writers working for them, so I think at best this all just serves as a good warning for what to expect with Fallout 4.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:51
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Volkerball posted:is it really that hard to just run around and be a shooty mans? if you're going to run a fine tooth comb through every game you play and analyze every detail because ~immersion~ or whatever, you're always going to be disappointed. if you find something silly like a bug or an inconsistency, laugh at it and keep going. hell, finding stuff like that is half of the fun of the games, and i don't want it fixed. like when you see rivet city, the correct response is to say "fuckin rights, a big rear end boat city!" not "hmmm, this boat is in a state of disrepair that surely would've led to it sinking over the last hundred years. problematic." you're not going to get novel level detail from a video game. suck it up or go read a book. in 1/2/new vegas/morrowind there's a lot of good compelling reasons to not do just that because the world is painted in a way that implies more societal impact than the engine allows. if this is sperging then "suspension of disbelief" is sperging and a whole lot of people do that Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 16:52
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sout posted:How can they chew their food if they can't even lip sync properly!? Have you seen any dentists around? How do people in Fallout still have teeth?
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Jun 14, 2015 16:54
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Bholder posted:Have you seen any dentists around? 
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Jun 14, 2015 16:58
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Volkerball posted:is it really that hard to just run around and be a shooty mans? if you're going to run a fine tooth comb through every game you play and analyze every detail because ~immersion~ or whatever, you're always going to be disappointed. if you find something silly like a bug or an inconsistency, laugh at it and keep going. hell, finding stuff like that is half of the fun of the games, and i don't want it fixed. like when you see rivet city, the correct response is to say "fuckin rights, a big rear end boat city!" not "hmmm, this boat is in a state of disrepair that surely would've led to it sinking over the last hundred years. problematic." you're not going to get novel level detail from a video game. suck it up or go read a book. The problem is, as an open-world RPG the game encourages the player to talk to everyone, run over everything, and see firsthand how the world sticks together. The problem with Fallout 3 isn't necessarily that it falls apart if you look at it hard enough, but that it's so poorly put together that it practically calls attention to its internal contradictions and flaws. It's a lot easier to tear apart if even the most basic premises of the game don't make sense. edit: also if you're playing the game just to shoot stuff in a post-apoc setting you really should just be playing the Metro series instead, considering how much better the shooting mechanics in that game are compared to anything either 3 or NV has to offer.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:59
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Bholder posted:Are you guys just looking for excuses to say "the writing is wrong"? None of these are really related to poor writing/worldbuilding. It's like excusing bad plotting in a fantasy story (the Lannister army traversing far too large a distance to defend King's Landing from Stannis's army in Game of Thrones just because the plot says so) because well there's dragons! and blood magic! Besides, there are working power plants in New Vegas. And y'know the Dam. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 17:00
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I think complaints about a lack of farms and implausible townships are more about how Fallout 3 doesn't have any substance to its writing. It's the theme park complaint again - "cool ideas" are just thrown in arbitrarily without any deeper thought or consideration to theme, tone, etc. New Vegas is good not because you can plot out a food web for the whole region, but because even dumb throwaway quests contribute to the larger story about the clash of civilisations and the omnipresent ghost of war.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:02
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Lt. Danger posted:I think complaints about a lack of farms and implausible townships are more about how Fallout 3 doesn't have any substance to its writing. It's the theme park complaint again - "cool ideas" are just thrown in arbitrarily without any deeper thought or consideration to theme, tone, etc. New Vegas is good not because you can plot out a food web for the whole region, but because even dumb throwaway quests contribute to the larger story about the clash of civilisations and the omnipresent ghost of war. (good effort but I don't think MisterBibs understands the idea of "abstract concepts" at all, i mean he doesn't even know what learning means) Acebuckeye13 posted:edit: also if you're playing the game just to shoot stuff in a post-apoc setting you really should just be playing the Metro series instead, considering how much better the shooting mechanics in that game are compared to anything either 3 or NV has to offer. in other news, Fallout 4 will be far more colorful, so at least it'll feel more like Postal 2 IN THE 50S!!! when the worldbuilding inevitably shits the bed. Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 17:07
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Little Lamplight stretched my ability to overlook things far, far more than "but where's the farms?????" Like seriously in 200 years nobody has figured that children are really easy targets to steal poo poo from and raided it? Or where are the kids coming from? New children must be showing up, but how?
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Jun 14, 2015 17:27
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AbrahamLincolnLog posted:Like seriously in 200 years nobody has figured that children are really easy targets to steal poo poo from and raided it? Or where are the kids coming from? New children must be showing up, but how? There's a lot of possible little patches Fallout 3 could have done to alleviate glaring flaws that just aren't done for some reason. Basically Michael Kirkbride should never have left the gaming industry. He'd have that poo poo down pat.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:29
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Acebuckeye13 posted:The problem is, as an open-world RPG the game encourages the player to talk to everyone, run over everything, and see firsthand how the world sticks together. The problem with Fallout 3 isn't necessarily that it falls apart if you look at it hard enough, but that it's so poorly put together that it practically calls attention to its internal contradictions and flaws. It's a lot easier to tear apart if even the most basic premises of the game don't make sense. Fallout 3's main story was boring and I don't even remember it, but there were a ton of fun side quests and more than enough motivation to explore the hell out of the map. For what it was, a massive theme park trial balloon, it was awesome. No other console game had anywhere close to the depth that fallout 3 had. It was unprecedented to make a game like that. New Vegas improved upon this substantially in 2010, tying everything together a lot better, and addressing a lot of the biggest criticisms of 3 (lame main story, drab lighting, little connection between communities), and it was one of the best games ever made. I don't get how people can not be hyped for the new one, especially when they're bitching about old rear end games that were revolutionary in their day by comparing them to a game that came out a few months ago. If you want to compare it to Skyrim, cool, but keep in mind that Skyrim was universally applauded and I don't know if there's a game out yet that matches it in sheer amount of poo poo to do. Hell, I hate the knights and elves and not-middle earth theme when it comes to anything, and I still put over a hundred hours into that game. If Fallout 4 is not an incredible, revolutionary game, it will be the exception to the rule. I'm sure goons will find plenty to bitch about, but they'll have to grasp at straws a hell of a lot harder than they will for any other game on the market.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:30
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Volkerball posted:Fallout 3's main story was boring and I don't even remember it, but there were a ton of fun side quests and more than enough motivation to explore the hell out of the map. For what it was, a massive theme park trial balloon, it was awesome. No other console game had anywhere close to the depth that fallout 3 had. It was unprecedented to make a game like that. New Vegas improved upon this substantially in 2010, tying everything together a lot better, and addressing a lot of the biggest criticisms of 3 (lame main story, drab lighting, little connection between communities), and it was one of the best games ever made. I don't get how people can not be hyped for the new one, especially when they're bitching about old rear end games that were revolutionary in their day by comparing them to a game that came out a few months ago. If you want to compare it to Skyrim, cool, but keep in mind that Skyrim was universally applauded and I don't know if there's a game out yet that matches it in sheer amount of poo poo to do. Hell, I hate the knights and elves and not-middle earth theme when it comes to anything, and I still put over a hundred hours into that game. If Fallout 4 is not an incredible, revolutionary game, it will be the exception to the rule. I'm sure goons will find plenty to bitch about, but they'll have to grasp at straws a hell of a lot harder than they will for any other game on the market.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:36
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Volkerball posted:Fallout 3's main story was boring and I don't even remember it, but there were a ton of fun side quests and more than enough motivation to explore the hell out of the map. For what it was, a massive theme park trial balloon, it was awesome. No other console game had anywhere close to the depth that fallout 3 had. It was unprecedented to make a game like that. New Vegas improved upon this substantially in 2010, tying everything together a lot better, and addressing a lot of the biggest criticisms of 3 (lame main story, drab lighting, little connection between communities), and it was one of the best games ever made. I don't get how people can not be hyped for the new one, especially when they're bitching about old rear end games that were revolutionary in their day by comparing them to a game that came out a few months ago. If you want to compare it to Skyrim, cool, but keep in mind that Skyrim was universally applauded and I don't know if there's a game out yet that matches it in sheer amount of poo poo to do. Hell, I hate the knights and elves and not-middle earth theme when it comes to anything, and I still put over a hundred hours into that game. If Fallout 4 is not an incredible, revolutionary game, it will be the exception to the rule. I'm sure goons will find plenty to bitch about, but they'll have to grasp at straws a hell of a lot harder than they will for any other game on the market. The Witcher 3. The Witcher 3 sets the gold standard in all sandbox RPGs, really and I say that as someone who didn't like the first two Witcher games at all. Not only is there about as much to do in Skyrim, the quests feel more lovingly crafted too and not just "collect 10 bear anuses" or "find the magic dildo in some dungeon that's never been visited and looted about a yard apart from another dungeon which has somehow never been visited and looted". I don't expect Fallout 4 to be better than The Witcher 3 or even better than New Vegas but I do expect a decent, fun game that has a lot of modding potential and I'm okay with that. I don't really give a poo poo about how every Fallout game sucks because of stupid asinine reasons by spergy idiots who complain that video game elements in a video game ruins ~their immersion~.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:38
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Anime Schoolgirl posted:What I'm getting out of this is that you expect Fallout 4 to be little more than an incredible theme park, which is cool. I think that's cool too. I like theme parks where you can shoot clay people. Nah, I'm expecting it to be better than the last game they made, which has always been the case. It's also been several years since they released a real game, so there will be a lot of new and awesome things they're going to present. It definitely will be an incredible theme park, but there will also be a lot of progress in tying the game together while also making it more open ended imo. The only thing I'm worried about is what they're doing with online gameplay. I wouldn't mind something in the vein of what Far Cry 4 did at all, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about an mmo. Mr. Fortitude posted:The Witcher 3. The Witcher 3 sets the gold standard in all sandbox RPGs, really and I say that as someone who didn't like the first two Witcher games at all. Not only is there about as much to do in Skyrim, the quests feel more lovingly crafted too and not just "collect 10 bear anuses" or "find the magic dildo in some dungeon that's never been visited and looted about a yard apart from another dungeon which has somehow never been visited and looted". Ok, but Skyrim came out in 2011 and Witcher 3 came out not even a month ago. I feel bad for the people who made it. It sounds like it's a good game, and it's gonna sit on the throne for so little time. 
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Jun 14, 2015 17:51
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There's at least one person playing Fallout 3 leading up to the conference. Unfortunately for him, it keeps crashing. That is the joke, and also the truth.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:08
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Mordaedil posted:Those things are being critiqued because they are questions every other Fallout game has done something to explain or show signs of improvement in, while Fallout 3 just doesn't bother to.  Actually Morrowind had tons of plantations in the southern part of the map to illustrate Morrowind's slavery problem.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:09
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Yeah Morrowind had a bunch of farms and plantations.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:30
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Volkerball posted:Ok, but Skyrim came out in 2011 and Witcher 3 came out not even a month ago. I feel bad for the people who made it. It sounds like it's a good game, and it's gonna sit on the throne for so little time. define 'throne'
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Jun 14, 2015 18:37
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Lt. Danger posted:I think complaints about a lack of farms and implausible townships are more about how Fallout 3 doesn't have any substance to its writing. It's the theme park complaint again - "cool ideas" are just thrown in arbitrarily without any deeper thought or consideration to theme, tone, etc. New Vegas is good not because you can plot out a food web for the whole region, but because even dumb throwaway quests contribute to the larger story about the clash of civilisations and the omnipresent ghost of war. I think that Shandification video would have been much better if the guy had used Chief Hanlon as an example. He's got his own little story of being a ranger and what that means to him, he's got some exposition for Caesar and the Legion, he's been affected terribly by the Mojave campaign and you can resolve his quest in a different way if you're at a certain point in the main quest, or if you've done another optional thing. He's not a part of the critical path but he can be a significant part of the Courier's story anyway, which is what all that "shandification" talk was actually supposed to be about. Volkerball posted:If you want to compare it to Skyrim, cool, but keep in mind that Skyrim was universally applauded and I don't know if there's a game out yet that matches it in sheer amount of poo poo to do. Quantity is not quality!
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Jun 14, 2015 18:39
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Fallout 3 was pretty mediocre compared to the other fallouts but I am glad that Beth went their own way and created a new story on the East coast.I think Fallout 4 will be great if they keep the references to the old games at a minimum, although it would be cool to hear vague reports about a certain expansionist republic.....
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Jun 14, 2015 18:46
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Bholder posted:Are you guys just looking for excuses to say "the writing is wrong"? youre dumb
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Jun 14, 2015 18:56
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The lack of explanation of food isn't a flaw in and of itself, but it is indicative of how Bethesda's writers are complete poo poo.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:05
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Mordaedil posted:If that is how you feel, that's fine, but then you are not cut out for creating open world games, because for a lot of people, poking the scenery is what is important. I dunno, I'm generally in agreement with how Bethesda does it, and the way they do it makes their open world games critically and commercially successful. The audience knows it's just a game and that those details aren't really important. Ropekid said that they didn't have enough time to flesh out Ceasar more in New Vegas. Imagine what could've been had Obsidian not dicked around with that farming area and its subplots.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:06
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MisterBibs posted:I dunno, I'm generally in agreement with how Bethesda does it, and the way they do it makes their open world games critically and commercially successful. The audience knows it's just a game and that those details aren't really important. quote:Ropekid said that they didn't have enough time to flesh out Ceasar more in New Vegas. Imagine what could've been had Obsidian not dicked around with that farming area and its subplots. I'm not sure you recognize half the words in that sentence though
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Jun 14, 2015 19:14
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MisterBibs posted:I dunno, I'm generally in agreement with how Bethesda does it, and the way they do it makes their open world games critically and commercially successful. Neither of those say anything about the game's actual quality. The former because games journalists are incapable of seeing any deeper than the surface level of anything, the latter because something being commerically successful doesn't mean it's actually good or creative (see: most comedians).
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Jun 14, 2015 19:14
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MisterBibs posted:I dunno, I'm generally in agreement with how Bethesda does it, and the way they do it makes their open world games critically and commercially successful. The audience knows it's just a game and that those details aren't really important. It's just kind of funny to talk about critical success when we're talking about two games that had backwards review scores.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:16
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ToxicAcne posted:I think Fallout 4 will be great if they keep the references to the old games at a minimum Truth. Why did they have to hamfistedly move Harold all the way across the country to turn him into a loving tree? That was a real lovely way to handle one of the best NPCs of the series.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:18
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I just made the mistake of explaining Little Lamplight (or "The Problem of Little Lamplight", as I presented it) to my friends and loved ones and blood began to shoot from their ears and eyes and now I'm all alone, just like the prisoner washing up on the shores of Morrowind.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:18
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I just made the mistake of explaining Little Lamplight (or "The Problem of Little Lamplight", as I presented it) to my friends and loved ones and blood began to shoot from their ears and eyes and now I'm all alone, just like the prisoner washing up on the shores of Morrowind. 
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Jun 14, 2015 19:18
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I just made the mistake of explaining Little Lamplight (or "The Problem of Little Lamplight", as I presented it) to my friends and loved ones and blood began to shoot from their ears and eyes and now I'm all alone, just like the prisoner washing up on the shores of Morrowind. You were dreaming. What's your name?
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Jun 14, 2015 19:20
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I've been looking through the reviews of Fallout 3, and it's funny how reviewers will say poo poo like "Fallout 3's enemies are retarded and will do nothing but run at you, but the combat is deep and fulfilling" or "Fallout 3's graphics may look dated by 5 years, but it's a beautiful game". It's like they're deathly afraid of saying something directly mean about the sacred Bethesda cow, so they gotta cover it up with passive-aggressive language.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:25
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Genocyber posted:Neither of those say anything about the game's actual quality. Being both commercially and critically successful says a whole bunch about a game's quality, actually. 3 didn't take any significant hit because "where do they get their food" wasn't answered. Groovelord Neato posted:It's just kind of funny to talk about critical success when we're talking about two games that had backwards review scores. Backwards review scores? What do you mean? Both 3 and NV got perfectly reasonable scores. Maybe NV got dinged a bit since it had to follow 3, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:29
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MisterBibs posted:Being both commercially and critically successful says a whole bunch about a game's quality, actually. I guess Clash of Clans is the best game ever then.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:30
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Andrast posted:I guess Candy Crush is the best game ever then. ...kind of apt, because the amount of cognitive ability needed to play it is right on MisterBibs' level
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Jun 14, 2015 19:32
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Personally I think It's a loving shame that Fallout 3 was extremely successful and Bethesda has control of the series
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Jun 14, 2015 19:35
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Flaky posted:I actually agree with you here, there should be very few plant species surviving at all anywhere in the Fallout universe. With the honourable exception of cave-fungus of course (assuming you count it as a plant). I would dearly have loved a mod that covered the DC metro's dankest corners in fungi of various types. Would have been a neat tie-in with TES games too... I don't think anyone is saying they want to farm. I think they're highlighting the difference between Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. Fallout 3 had quests about people obsessed with Nuka Cola history and towns made up entirely of little children and the Republic of Dave. Fallout: New Vegas had quests about securing a food supply and rival political factions and discovering energy sources. It becomes simplified into "New Vegas has farms and quarries." Your statement about New Vegas turning into the Sims because of crafting is frankly bizarre; I've played through Vegas 3-4 times and never paid serious attention to the crafting system. And New Vegas doesn't ever come close to letting you play farmer. There are quests that feature agriculture as a theme, but you as the player are tasked with descending into monster-infested vaults to retrieve samples. Not really the Sims. So your critique of the critique is nonsensical. Also it appears to be based on misunderstanding several aspects of the Fallout setting. There is no technology that allows you to magically create food in the game. Post scarcity technology and utopias in a box were not developed in the 50's. The GECK isn't utopia in a box; its an agricultural starter kit with seeds, soil, and fertilizer samples and blueprints. This is far more interesting than a magic box because it reflects how far society has fallen, in that it turns agricultural starter kits into the object of cargo cult veneration. In Fallout 3, its more of a miracle device, but this is reason 1,247 why the writing in Fallout 3 is relatively poor and fails to understand the setting its working with. So an impassioned critique(based upon a fundamental misunderstanding of the series) of a critique for misunderstanding the basic premise of the series is kind of ridiculous.
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Jun 14, 2015 19:57
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