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Phrasing posted:I generally hate companions so if I can the dog is staying home. Somebody has to carry all my stuff
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Jun 17, 2015 01:14
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SunAndSpring posted:He's supposed to be a possible target for the Windhelm serial killer. So, if the serial killer wants to kill him, it's ok, but if you want to kill him you better solve the loving murder before you can murder. I love that "can't kill him because he can be killed" no wonder bethesda's poo poo is so buggy.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:17
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frajaq posted:Also if the past tells us anything it only means that: I'm not sure if it's just up like that all the time but I noticed Obsidian has a suspiciously large number of job openings right now https://www.obsidian.net/jobs
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Jun 17, 2015 01:19
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SexyCommando posted:If it happens repeatedly then it's a Um, no, you simply reload until the acceptable result happens, just like in X-COM. SunAndSpring posted:Bethesda really needs to stop relying on essential NPCs as a crutch. If someone in a quest can die, write a new path around it rather than just making him invincible. I literally can't remember the game, but there was some Russian post-apoc game that had this, and it resulted in "can't turn in this mission; quest giver got into a random fight and died" nonsense.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:20
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scenario and you just gotta accept fate and live with it.
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Forced backstory, forced voice acting, forced unkillable companions.... god damnit Beth it's alright to let players play your RPG like it's an RPG. "Forced voice acting" It's not an RPG unless your character's voice is entirely in your head, is it?
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Jun 17, 2015 01:22
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frajaq posted:Dogmeat is essential until he's brutally murdered by the big villain, who is actually your android baby My theory is you are an android created by the baby, who grew up and is some kind of lonely ghoulish horror who built you and implanted you with his parent's memories or an imagined facsimile thereof.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:22
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Not voicing your main character in a game with a narrative focus and other characters who are voiced is pretty mentally disabled if you ask me.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:25
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Merry Magpie posted:At some point, Bethesda decided that their terrible story was more important than the player's enjoyment. No just a small set of players enjoyment, everyone else doesn't want to go through some extra bullshit hoops or reload a save because a dathclaw or dremora eats a characters face or they ran in to punch a radroach/skeever and ate more then their daily recommended dose of friendly fire bullets/fireballs. Your desire to murder every character is weird, you are weird. Feel free to prove my assertion by showing how high Essential NPC disabling mods are on the Nexus download lists.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:26
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Reloading a save, how inconvenient.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:27
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I wish you actually literally played Gordon Freeman in this game. All that character creation bullshit at the beginning? Yeah, just to psyche you out. You die like a pussy in a nuclear inferno. When you emerge from the Vault you're sporting your crowbar and Hazard Orange coloured power armour. Also Alyx is in the game somehow.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:28
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The only true RPGs are games like Nethack, where there is no sound or story and only the most hardcore make it two hours without starving to death or some bizarre hazard that's impossible to predict instantly kills you with no saving allowed.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:28
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There's good reasons to play either way
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Jun 17, 2015 01:28
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SirDan3k posted:No just a small set of players enjoyment, everyone else doesn't want to go through some extra bullshit hoops or reload a save because a dathclaw or dremora eats a characters face or they ran in to punch a radroach/skeever and ate more then their daily recommended dose of friendly fire bullets/fireballs. So by your logic, Fallout 4 should be nothing but naked characters, and exploding into bloody gore with every hit. Extra gore and nudity tend to be high on the popularity lists.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:29
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chitoryu12 posted:The only true RPGs are games like Nethack, where there is no sound or story and only the most hardcore make it two hours without starving to death or some bizarre hazard that's impossible to predict instantly kills you with no saving allowed. Yeah, that's exactly what we want
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Jun 17, 2015 01:29
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I will always be amused and bewildered by complaints about any structure or limitations in a game with a narrative. It makes me wonder why some people even play video games. I do wish there was a toggle for non-essential npc flags though, so people can kill everything and ruin their questlines and I'd never have to hear this stupid loving argument again.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:29
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I really like playing with essential NPCs, but yeah, they should definitely have a toggle, especially for the PC game where you can just pull up the console if you want to bring them back to life to complete a quest line.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:29
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Really why can't FO:4 be more like a spiritual successor to the One True RPG - Dwarf Fortress
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Jun 17, 2015 01:30
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I'd rather have essential characters than fail quests because of an NPC dying. NV had a big problem if you went pro-Legion; if you went on a rampage inside Hoover Dam and massacred everyone there before killing Kimball, you'd instantly fail the quest to kill Kimball when you got it because you murdered a vital NPC for the quest that you didn't know even existed. There are also other instances where you'll instantly fail a quest you didn't know existed because you decided to murder a random NPC that was actually important in a quest.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:30
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Kurtofan posted:Reloading a save, how inconvenient. I know that's supposed to be sarcasm but yes stopping the flow of the game to load up a save from five minute to half an hour ago is inconvenient.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:31
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graynull posted:I will always be amused and bewildered by complaints about any structure or limitations in a game with a narrative. It makes me wonder why some people even play video games. I do wish there was a toggle for non-essential npc flags though, so people can kill everything and ruin their questlines and I'd never have to hear this stupid loving argument again. Because if I wanted to play a game where I just ran along a set path with a pre-defined character doing what the game told me to, I'd play pretty much any other game. I play games like Fallout so I can explore the wasteland and do whatever comes to mind.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:31
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SirDan3k posted:I know that's supposed to be sarcasm but yes stopping the flow of the game to load up a save from five minute to half an hour ago is inconvenient. Saving often is something that people should be doing when playing an RPG, we've all been burned at one point or the other. It's a learning process, it's essential to save in case you gently caress up.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:33
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closeted republican posted:I'd rather have essential characters than fail quests because of an NPC dying. I do too, and I like a little bit of narrative which sort of makes it important, but a toggle for it really wouldn't be hard, and they could make sure that turning off essential NPCs came with a warning so new players wouldn't do it accidentally. There'll be a mod to do it almost right away though, I'm sure.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:33
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closeted republican posted:I'd rather have essential characters than fail quests because of an NPC dying. Well he isn't gonna show up to the dam if you slaughter everyone there. That's not very safe for him, isn't it?
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Jun 17, 2015 01:33
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Fixing essential NPCs is really easy. Just let the player coup de grace any downed essential NPC, throw in the Morrowind YOU DONE BROKED poo poo dialogue, and you're good to go. Bethesda is just lazy and stupid. There are plenty of other ways a competent game designer could improve the system, that just took about 10 seconds to think up, but doing actual game design isn't really a priority for developers these days.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:34
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graynull posted:I will always be amused and bewildered by complaints about any structure or limitations in a game with a narrative. It makes me wonder why some people even play video games. I do wish there was a toggle for non-essential npc flags though, so people can kill everything and ruin their questlines and I'd never have to hear this stupid loving argument again. It's because it's a dumb limitation that adds nothing to the game.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:34
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Nuebot posted:Because if I wanted to play a game where I just ran along a set path with a pre-defined character doing what the game told me to, I'd play pretty much any other game. I play games like Fallout so I can explore the wasteland and do whatever comes to mind. What a simplistic and reductive way to look at having any structure at all in a game. e: There is no possible way they could ever make large quest lines with voiced characters and account for every possible whim of every single player. Most NPCs should be killable, but a few aren't. It was overused in Skyrim though, I will agree. graynull fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 01:34
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K8.0 posted:Fixing essential NPCs is really easy. Just let the player coup de grace any downed essential NPC, throw in the Morrowind YOU DONE BROKED poo poo dialogue, and you're good to go. Bethesda is just lazy and stupid. I'm not even sure it's laziness, I think they're babying their players, as if people can't handle the occasional reload and whatnot.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:35
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K8.0 posted:Fixing essential NPCs is really easy. Just let the player coup de grace any downed essential NPC, throw in the Morrowind YOU DONE BROKED poo poo dialogue, and you're good to go. Bethesda is just lazy and stupid. I don't want that, actually, because in huge melees, you frequently accidentally end up double tapping your companions, and reloading is kind of annoying, whatever kurtofan may think. The toggle is better.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:36
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closeted republican posted:I'd rather have essential characters than fail quests because of an NPC dying. on the otherhand, why would Kimball land at the Hoover Dam if everyone got massacred
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Jun 17, 2015 01:36
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closeted republican posted:There are also other instances where you'll instantly fail a quest you didn't know existed because you decided to murder a random NPC that was actually important in a quest. loving Boxcars in Nipton man  ShadowMar posted:on the otherhand, why would Kimball land at the Hoover Dam if everyone got massacred That's the thing, you don't know that Kimball is gonna visit the place at that point!
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Jun 17, 2015 01:38
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If murdering everyone in sight is wrong I don't wanna be right.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:40
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SirDan3k posted:No just a small set of players enjoyment, everyone else doesn't want to go through some extra bullshit hoops or reload a save because a dathclaw or dremora eats a characters face or they ran in to punch a radroach/skeever and ate more then their daily recommended dose of friendly fire bullets/fireballs. What are you going on about? The NPC SuninSpring mentioned couldn't be killed because it could die as part of a separate quest. Bethesda were unwilling to account for that eventuality so they made the NPC essential.
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Jun 17, 2015 01:42
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I don't know if it's been brought up before in this thread because I skipped all the garbage that was happening earlier but have they talked about if the game will have lines for 1 INT characters? That's like my one and only concern with the MC having a voice now. 
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Jun 17, 2015 01:48
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Kurtofan posted:I'm not even sure it's laziness, I think they're babying their players, as if people can't handle the occasional reload and whatnot. I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that it's "babying" players to not let them break the game and have to reload a save without any warning that they're making the game unwinnable until they already do it? Honest question: do you believe that only your personal definition of "fun" should be catered to?
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Jun 17, 2015 01:51
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DeliciousPatriotism posted:I'm not sure if it's just up like that all the time but I noticed Obsidian has a suspiciously large number of job openings right now It's probably for Pathfinder, since the QA position involves D20 experience.
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Jun 17, 2015 02:01
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chitoryu12 posted:I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that it's "babying" players to not let them break the game and have to reload a save without any warning that they're making the game unwinnable until they already do it? It kind of is when you make a game that emphasizes the open world and freedom but then go "oh wait now we should make all these guys immortal so no one can hurt them. Oh and make all these guys' guns unobtainable so no one can steal them too. Might as well lock off all these areas with unpickable locks with no keys, don't want anyone getting in early." It kind of defeats the purpose.
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Jun 17, 2015 02:03
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chitoryu12 posted:I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that it's "babying" players to not let them break the game and have to reload a save without any warning that they're making the game unwinnable until they already do it? They could put warnings without making the npc immortal. my definition of "fun" is just letting me do poo poo as I want, I don't see how it tramples on yours. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 02:15
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8-bit Miniboss posted:I don't know if it's been brought up before in this thread because I skipped all the garbage that was happening earlier but have they talked about if the game will have lines for 1 INT characters? That's like my one and only concern with the MC having a voice now. Also boo-hoo a character died and I can't do a quest, this isn't the perfect outcome where everyone survives that I wanted in my game about a hostile apocalyptic hellscape. MisterBibs posted:I literally can't remember the game, but there was some Russian post-apoc game that had this, and it resulted in "can't turn in this mission; quest giver got into a random fight and died" nonsense. Besides, allowing NPCs to get killed off-camera by random encounters is terrible design. SexyCommando fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 02:27
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Nuebot posted:It kind of is when you make a game that emphasizes the open world and freedom but then go "oh wait now we should make all these guys immortal so no one can hurt them. Oh and make all these guys' guns unobtainable so no one can steal them too. Might as well lock off all these areas with unpickable locks with no keys, don't want anyone getting in early." It kind of defeats the purpose. There's virtually no decent game that actually has 100% freedom, though. There's always concessions that are made in the name of preventing players from breaking the game or locking themselves out of content. quote:They could put warnings without making the npc immortal. You accused it of "babying" players, as if players who don't want to deal with those kind of problems are somehow inferior in maturity or skill to you. You're asking that special considerations be made for your own desires, regardless of what the rest of the audience wants.
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Jun 17, 2015 02:38
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MisterBibs posted:I literally can't remember the game, but there was some Russian post-apoc game that had this, and it resulted in "can't turn in this mission; quest giver got into a random fight and died" nonsense. You're probably thinking of STALKER. The original builds of the game had an artificial intelligence system that actually simulated the NPCs and monsters moving around relatively realistically when you weren't around and completing their own missions. The problem is that important NPCs would suddenly die before you could turn in a quest or get a quest from them because they'd wander into a pack of boar and get gored, and supposedly there were even instances where they would make it all the way to the end location of the game by themselves. It also manifested in ways that made things easier, like an assassination target getting himself shot literally as soon as you got the job to kill him. This was too much of a hassle for playtesters, so while they didn't make the NPCs invincible they did lock them into safe areas and scripted appearances and disappearances so players who weren't of the "Kill 'em all" mindset could actually complete the game.
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Jun 17, 2015 02:44
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