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Popete posted:But I'm curious what to look out for and what the hidden costs of ownership are.  BLOOD FOR THE BOAT GODS
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Jun 28, 2015 21:59
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Popete posted:Can anyone recommend me some basic resources on sail boat ownership? I've been sailing for about a year now (dingy and keel), a lot of time out on the water this year racing on a 30 ft Frers twice a week. I'm taking a keelboat refresher course in July on a J22 the size of boat I am hoping to buy next year. I've been looking on Craigslist at boats for sale and it seems like you can get a decent sized boat for $5000 - $10000 which seems like a steal to me. But I'm curious what to look out for and what the hidden costs of ownership are. Last thing I wanna do is buy a boat and go broke maintaining and repairing it cause I didn't know what to look for. There are countless blogs, sailboat owners are super vocal and tend to keep logs on maintenance and costs. My favorite sites are boatdesign.net and woodenboat.com. Storage is going to be the biggest expense unless it is on a trailer and you own a long driveway or lots of property. Where about do you live? Around here moorage is over $10/ft/month so my old 35 was costing me over $4000 a year just to sit and grow algae and a storage yard landside is still over $100/m and means an extra trip just to pick up the boat before launching it and then again at the end of the day. Since you are looking at J/22's I assume you want to day trip and race occasionally, maybe take the rare overnight cruise in protected waters? Since it is a one design class, just buy whatever has the most hand laid glass and the least rot-able core material. Sails will probably be your biggest expense. However if you are just looking for something in that size range and want get about instead of go in circles I'd steer away from racers since you can always find a place crewing and look for a pocket cruiser with a little outboard. Don't buy a wood or metal boat unless you are in as a passion, they are literally 10 times the work to maintain and it better be on a trailer because basically no marina will take a wood boat without a huge expensive insurance policy. I guess the biggest questions before I can tell you what it will cost are where are you using it and what do you want to do with it?
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Jun 29, 2015 00:48
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Thanks Bibendum, good stuff to think about. I'd like a day cruiser and I am really interested in doing overnight trips. I live in Chicago so the boat would be on Lake Michigan. Winter storage wouldn't be an issue as I have plenty of space at my parents up north to keep it. I think I would likely just get a mooring pin to save on cost. I want to be able to have 5 people on board comfortably for day cruising and sight seeing around the city. Racing I'm not really concerned with as I can always crew on bigger boats like I'm doing right now. I'm not looking for the best deal up front, I'd happily pay more for a boat I know I won't have to dump a bunch into in restoring. I'm still very much a new sailor so the less maintenance I have to do off the bat the better. I'm fairly handy so of course I can manage and would like to learn how to do my own maintenance but to start I want a solid foundation of a boat. My ideal situation would be to take the boat up north to the Apostle islands and camp for a night or two and then sail back down. This may not be as feasible on a J22 though. Most of the time as I said would be day sailing with some friends, I likely would be doing a fair amount of sailing myself or with a single friend so I'd be looking for a boat I could handle solo.
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Jun 29, 2015 02:50
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Ok, new hood strap, steering cable, and kill switch arrived. I'll just pull the pump to make it easier to get the cable out and... poo poo. I believe the correct term for that impeller is "proper hosed". Suggestions on an impeller? I can probably live with an aluminum one as the stainless impellers go for around $200. Of course I also need the tool for removing the impeller! 
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Jun 29, 2015 20:44
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Get the Don Casey book 'Inspecting the aging Sailboat', it'll help you avoid a lot of the lemons
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Jun 29, 2015 20:46
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Alctel posted:Get the Don Casey book 'Inspecting the aging Sailboat', it'll help you avoid a lot of the lemons Just ordered, thanks for the suggestion.
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Jun 29, 2015 21:18
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I just rigged up a hammock in my sailboat, why didn't i do this a year ago christ
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Jun 30, 2015 02:10
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Popete posted:Can anyone recommend me some basic resources on sail boat ownership? I've been sailing for about a year now (dingy and keel), a lot of time out on the water this year racing on a 30 ft Frers twice a week. I'm taking a keelboat refresher course in July on a J22 the size of boat I am hoping to buy next year. I've been looking on Craigslist at boats for sale and it seems like you can get a decent sized boat for $5000 - $10000 which seems like a steal to me. But I'm curious what to look out for and what the hidden costs of ownership are. Last thing I wanna do is buy a boat and go broke maintaining and repairing it cause I didn't know what to look for. Used fiberglass/plastic boats in the 20-30' size range from the 70's/80's are basically a dime a dozen these days and you can get awesome value for your money if you shop around. If you get one without an engine there's not a lot you can get hosed over on, most problems will be readily apparent if you just give it a good looking over while it's on land. It's always a good idea to pay special attention to critical things like the rudder fasteners, any hull openings below the waterline, the anchor points for the standing rigging etc. If it does have an inboard engine, that can be a huge can of worms. If at all possible, try to get a boat where the original engine has been swapped out at some point in the 90's/early 2000's, but even then you're gonna have to be real careful. Outboard engines are cheaper and easier to replace and probably easier to maintain as well, but at least here they have a disturbing tendency to get stolen. They're also less suitable to a boat intended for longer trips because you can't really hook an alternator up to them, but since you're looking for a day cruiser that's a non-issue to you. Basically if it's a plastic sailboat in decent shape, everything except the engine is actually pretty cheap to own and operate. Most parts do not need replacement all that often and if you sail it in freshwater you're not even going to have to repaint it below the waterline very often. Marine engines, though, are expensive and annoying. Wooden sailboats can also suck up pretty much infinite amounts of time, if you let them (they can be really nice to look at, though). As far as boat class choices go, if you had been in northern Europe I'd have recommended an IF-boat - it's cheap, it sleeps four people (although two of them need to be sorta small and/or pretty good friends - bring a tent), seats five if you need to, can be handled solo and is an excellent beginner sailboat while still having a lot of room to grow (people have crossed the Atlantic in it) - but I don't know if such creatures exist in Lake Michigan. Other than that I concur with the guy above: don't underestimate mooring costs. poo poo's expensive. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 08:50
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If you wanna overnight you will want at least a J24, probably. Bonus--actually having lifelines and a not retarded class association. We had a J24/J22 joint regatta early this year where we ended up not racing because the local J22 class association has a rule where they won't race if its blowing over 25kts. Which is exactly when a J/boat starts getting fun.
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Jun 30, 2015 15:30
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TheFluff posted:As far as boat class choices go, if you had been in northern Europe I'd have recommended an IF-boat - it's cheap, it sleeps four people (although two of them need to be sorta small and/or pretty good friends - bring a tent), seats five if you need to, can be handled solo and is an excellent beginner sailboat while still having a lot of room to grow (people have crossed the Atlantic in it) - but I don't know if such creatures exist in Lake Michigan. They pop up here in the NorthWest occasionally so I would assume there are a few on the Great Lakes. And outboards are great, especially 4-strokes. Way easier to work on and good parts availability. Some in the 10hp range even do come with an alternator but it's a rarity. If you do look at inboards remember that volvo md1's are getting old and hard to find parts for. Yanmars are common and cheap and beta marine is just a marinized kubota engine so that's are good.
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Jun 30, 2015 16:35
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So you guys might enjoy this. It's a video of the construction of a Fairlie 55'. It's a beatiful merger of modern techniques and classic boat building construction. Also, it makes me drool a lot and wish I was rich. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDgKIPaW5xY
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Jun 30, 2015 16:55
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Bibendum posted:They pop up here in the NorthWest occasionally so I would assume there are a few on the Great Lakes. Plus you can load the outboard in a car and drive it to a non marina mechanic.
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Jul 1, 2015 14:42
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So last week I decided to address the elephant in the room; the fuel system. I started by draining the water separator and boy it was brimming with water. There was also a good amount of grit in there, so I decided I better take the whole thing apart and clean it up properly. Here's where I made my mistake, I thought I better do this on the pier so I don't spill diesel in the boat. All finished up and just going to blow the last speck of dust away, of course the gasket goes flying into the sea and sinks. Waiting for new gaskets to arrive...
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Jul 4, 2015 20:22
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Gaskets arrived and fit. Put the water separator back together, changed the fine filter on the engine, and through more luck than skill or proper procedure, I seem to have bled it well enough. Ran the engine for 10 mins @2200 without so much as a cough. Phew!
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Jul 7, 2015 19:55
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Hi thread. I'm looking to buy a Cuddy up to about $10K or so. I grew up on simple duck/bass boats - carolina skiffs and polar krafts with evinrude outboards and so on. Currently looking at late nineties models. Q: how the hell can I get super caught up on what to look for in buying one of these?
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Jul 7, 2015 20:05
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Anyone know of a person/small company on the internet that will rebuild a fuel pump from a 1962 Mercruiser? Apparently the new ones that replace it have different connections for the stainless steel gas lines and my father would rather get his rebuilt than mess with new gas lines.
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Jul 8, 2015 18:46
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I took some photos at the Wooden Boat Festival in Seattle last weekend. Here is an old school speedboat powered by a Jaguar V-12. I wish my abilities and cell phone camera had allowed me to capture the extreme brilliance of the finish. It was breathtaking in person. http://imgur.com/a/Et92r
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Jul 10, 2015 18:59
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This is the season of using and enjoying a boat, not for projects. But have a holiday pic. Moored at Oscarsborg guest harbour, next to two immaculate wooden boats.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:01
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I think it needs more sails.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:51
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The Locator posted:I think it needs more sails. "When you're on a run and in a hurry"
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Jul 14, 2015 03:10
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That is one hell of a spinnaker 
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Jul 14, 2015 03:26
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No projects, I said, but invariably there are some. Today I fixed the shower. The mixer and the head were both cracked from frost and got replaced. Much loving around with gaskets and grease to get the thing to not leak.  (It's for use outside, on the swimming platform, for those who wonder about the placement.) e: second pic
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Jul 14, 2015 18:16
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 Gotta brag a bit and post some gratuitous photos. Sailing this wooden yacht this week with some family friends. Primrose is her name, a 43 ft yacht built in Gothenburg in 1938, not to any particular rule. Three families share ownership, and I think that's about right for the amount of maintenance a boat like this requires.  
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Aug 4, 2015 15:04
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TheFluff posted:
That's a gorgeous boat.
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Aug 4, 2015 15:14
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Beautiful. What's the beam on her, looks narrower than I'd expect from a sloop her size?
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Aug 4, 2015 15:30
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Kenshin posted:Beautiful. What's the beam on her, looks narrower than I'd expect from a sloop her size? 2.6 m (8.5 ft), or thereabouts. The interior isn't huge but five people sleep comfortably on board. 
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Aug 4, 2015 17:10
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Wow, Narrow as hell, must be a joy to sail. That's the problem with a lot of modern boats (of all types). They make them wide to accommodate more people, which makes them slow, un-seakindly, and heavy. That's one of the secrets to the SeaCraft hull from the 70's... narrow and the VDH make it an incredible sea boat.
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Aug 5, 2015 00:05
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The Locator posted:I think it needs more sails. You Dawg we put sails on your sails so you can sail while you sail, ya heard.
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Aug 5, 2015 02:36
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sharkytm posted:Wow, Narrow as hell, must be a joy to sail. That's the problem with a lot of modern boats (of all types). They make them wide to accommodate more people, which makes them slow, un-seakindly, and heavy. If its asymmetrical and fast, you're drat right I want her to have a wide transom. (You did say *modern* boats.)
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Aug 6, 2015 16:08
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SuperDucky posted:If its asymmetrical and fast, you're drat right I want her to have a wide transom. (You did say *modern* boats.) OK, not that modern... I'm talking conventional hulls, none of the crazy asymmetric foil designs. When they're moving, the wetted shape is pretty drat narrow/wetted surface area is low. I'm talking about Catalina's and the like. Wide, slow, and surge-y.
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Aug 8, 2015 15:08
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Not even foilers--the FT10 I race on has 105m^2 of kite. When that thing pops a plane, you better hold the gently caress on and be sitting aft of the companionway. You are correct about old hulls, though. There is a reason the J24 is still so popular.
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Aug 8, 2015 17:08
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Well I'm all setup for my first boat rental. Been sailing since last year doing jib/main and spinnaker racing. Finally convinced a non sailor friend to come out with me and we are renting a J22. Super excited to put around downtown Chicago , some decent wind today 10-12 knots. I'm mostly nervous about running the outboard and docking/undocking but I've done it before so I think I can handle it.
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Aug 8, 2015 19:23
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Has anyone here ever built a kayak before? I'm looking at the Yostwerks skin-on-frame designs and they look like a nice weekend project for me.
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Sep 3, 2015 05:08
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I skippered another charter with friends this past weekend, this time in the San Juan Islands close to home here in Seattle. s/v Christelle, a 50' Beneteau Oceanis. We had a comfortable trip with two days of good sailing and then two days of glassy seas with comfortable motoring. Split between 10 people (yes, we fit 10 on the boat fairly comfortably!) it only cost us about $440/person, self-provisioned (and including the cost of provisions and the moorage fee for the night we weren't anchored). Kenshin fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 06:06
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Kenshin posted:I skippered another charter with friends this past weekend, this time in the San Juan Islands close to home here in Seattle. The San Juan's are gorgeous. Nice setup, and a good cruising boat. Got any more pictures?
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Sep 9, 2015 15:28
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Kenshin posted:I skippered another charter with friends this past weekend, this time in the San Juan Islands close to home here in Seattle. What a fantastic way to vacation. I spent the weekend at the San Diego Festival of Sail. Got to sail on American Pride (129' Three-masted Schooner built in 1941), Bill of Rights (129' Gaff Topsail Schooner built in 1971), Amazing Grace (83' Topsail Schooner built in 1989), and the Curlew (82' John Alden designed Staysail Schooner built in 1926). It was a fantastic weekend.
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Sep 10, 2015 04:26
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sharkytm posted:The San Juan's are gorgeous. Nice setup, and a good cruising boat. Got any more pictures? The Locator posted:What a fantastic way to vacation. Here's a few more pictures. I unfortunately don't have any good ones of the boat with my DSLR, this one of her tied to the dock at Orcas Island is from my phone.      some boats anchored near us in Echo Bay, Sucia Island.
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Sep 10, 2015 04:58
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Kenshin posted:We had a comfortable trip with two days of good sailing and then two days of glassy seas with comfortable motoring. What determines whether you sail or you motor?
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Sep 10, 2015 05:03
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AnimalChin posted:What determines whether you sail or you motor? When there's no wind there isn't much of an option, particularly if you've got places to go. No wind generally means smooth seas. 
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Sep 10, 2015 05:05
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Lovely photos, I took two weeks off and did the same trip, putted around between saltspring island and Port Townsend.
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Sep 10, 2015 14:48
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