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Aphrodite posted:A lot of the things people are saying are not objective facts. Punisher has varied a lot. I am basing almost all of what I'm saying off of Ennis's run. The Punisher has been turned into everything from a werewolf to a black man (no kidding), has had crossovers with Archie, and obliterated the MCU in a few spin-offs, his history is all over the map and absolutely bat poo poo. So you're not lying. My view of the character is from more or less a specific take, that has colored all takes after. And the take most likely to be the main inspiration behind the character that will appear on the show. There have been some really really lovely Punisher takes/comics over the years. ED: gently caress, even this was a thing  Frankencastle Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 17:44
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One thing I hope they keep is Daredevil hating Punisher, being a lawyer and all.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:46
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Aphrodite posted:One thing I hope they keep is Daredevil hating Punisher, being a lawyer and all. Yeah, I hope it's an uneasy truce kind of thing that eventually might blow up, there is a ton of great contrast to be had between those two. I actually think it works out better that Daredevil's the main character and will have to react to this, than the other way around. Like I've said, the best Punisher stories are focused on the people around him, not him directly, and I think the show can deliver in spades based on what they've done so far. We already got a bit of it with Stick and Daredevil last season. ED: Stick and Castle teaming up would be kind of hilarious, just poo poo talking poor Murdock while being murder-bros. Red posted:
I can't say as if the concept doesn't make me laugh, mostly just pointing out how completely silly the character has been at points. Not that it's a bad thing. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 17:48
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Blazing Ownager posted:ED: gently caress, even this was a thing  Some of us liked Franken-Castle.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:51
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In the story right before the Ennis run, the punisher was recruited by the Heaven's army, and had the powers of an angel which among other things was to be able to pull weapons from under his jacket, weapons that were teleported there directly from the Heaven's armory. I aways find it kind of funny when people believe fictional characters have some kind of innate property that make them better or worse for the role of the main character. Same thing when people dislike Superman because he is too powerful, so his stories obviously suck! I was aways of the belief that it all depends on the writer.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:00
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Nerdist is reporting that the new showrunner has been referring to season 2 as "Daredevil vs Punisher", so take that for what it's worth. May not be an alliance at all, which is a direction I can see this show going. I figure it's more like a theme of "This is what Matt could become if he doesn't reign himself in and/or if he loses someone too close to him."
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Jun 26, 2015 20:38
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sticklefifer posted:Nerdist is reporting that the new showrunner has been referring to season 2 as "Daredevil vs Punisher" Oh my god this is even better than I could have hoped
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Jun 26, 2015 20:42
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sticklefifer posted:Nerdist is reporting that the new showrunner has been referring to season 2 as "Daredevil vs Punisher", so take that for what it's worth. May not be an alliance at all, which is a direction I can see this show going. I figure it's more like a theme of "This is what Matt could become if he doesn't reign himself in and/or if he loses someone too close to him." yeah, I hope they are using the putting on the costume to be the point where DD becomes a little less like the people he fights. The contrast with Punisher would drive this point home. It will be interesting to see how they do it.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:42
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DvP is what I've been thinking it would be, so no change in expectations here. Just the hard part of waiting. Also, I don't remember: Will this thread become the Jessica Jones thread in December, or will that get a new thread?
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Jun 26, 2015 20:44
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i don't remember either, but there's enough time between the shows that I feel like we should just keep this thread. It's already the become the thread for discussing the upcoming shows, and the OP is still the same from before it was renamed the daredevil thread. edit: I couldn't look at how many pages we were at while posting, but we are only at like 88 pages, which means we can use this thread for a long time.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:45
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I think Punisher could work as a more standard hero -- or at least as an anti-hero -- if they focus less on the fact that he seems to brutally execute every single bad guy he comes across and more on the issue that, hey, sometimes -- not all the time but at least some of the time -- killing some of these guys is completely justified and defensible. He would still be working outside the law which would force the police and other heroes to try to deal with him, and this would still set him apart from the sort of characters who take their no-kill decrees very seriously, but it wouldn't depict Frank as some sort of "madman that has to be stopped" or whatever which, in my opinion, hurts the character more than it doesn't. 'Cuz, y'know what, sometimes it is really dumb to spare these bad guys. Sometimes it is utterly absurd for some heroes -- in their more badly-written moments -- to be wringing their hands about how all killing is bad no matter what -- why? BECAUSE that's why -- and Punisher is a good character with which to explore that worldview.
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Jun 26, 2015 22:32
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Its seems like a simple natural story progression. Matt spent most of this season struggling with what he wanted to be. All those conversations with Claire, the priest, and Foggy were all about it and he was on the brink of becoming a vigilante killer. Finally he became Daredevil and turned his back on the uglier urges and "solutions." Then along comes a new guy who went the other way and is what Claire, the Priest, Foggy, and Matt himself feared he'd become. There's a natural conflict there even as there's a lot of guilt over the fact that he may have inspired The Punisher and that he could very well be the Punisher if he had successfully killed Fisk mid season instead of getting his rear end kicked.
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Jun 26, 2015 22:40
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I agree with both of you. I really hope they do something like this. They did a really good job with Fisk, and even if they just try to copy that formula, I'm sure they will do great. I think I liked every character in season one. Every character just felt infused with a personality, even if it wasn't a personality I liked. Pick any any character and I can immediately give a brief description of their character. I couldn't do that with a show like Arrow.
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Jun 26, 2015 23:20
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They should make The Punisher a fun-loving sociopath. A confident, happy man satisfied that his bullets make the world a better place. Let Matt have a monopoly on doubt and fear - contrast him with someone who 'has it all' by taking the easy way out every time. Joyful nihilism in 9mm.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:16
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program666 posted:Same thing when people dislike Superman because he is too powerful, so his stories obviously suck! I was aways of the belief that it all depends on the writer. Except that's kinda true with Superman. The biggest issue is when they make him incorruptible as a person AND have too many powers; the combination makes the most boring superhero ever and I've never seen anything outside of my the first Superman movie and the old serials that didn't have that problem. Mostly because that movie wasn't being 100% serious. DC puts him up on some ridiculous pedestal so he can do no wrong, can do everything, and almost never fails in anything he tries to do. I used to just dislike Superman because he was a 'boy scout' but I like Captain America absolutely fine; he's also very much a boy scout. It's the combination. Likewise characters like Dr. Manhatten can be interesting, despite possessing Superman level power. I can't think of a single non-campy Superman anything that I thought wasn't kinda poo poo. I even read Kingdom Come after friends raved (rightfully) about the art in it, and.. it felt like it was some meta-commentary from bitter DC writers about how Marvel put a boot in their face. They tried to frame it as a violence versus 'classic' hero thing, but in the end, their non-stop jacking off over Superman seemed to be present in every single frame. STAC Goat posted:Its seems like a simple natural story progression. Tying the theme together even more is the fact Castle is also Catholic and almost became a Priest, in just about every single version of the character. Even those scenes can be juxtaposed. Maybe he'll wander in to the same Priest Daredevil sees for a confession. The Priest is used to Murdock's stuff but not sure how he'd react to "I killed four men with a Claymore tonight, as a distraction for the dozen more I ambushed with an M60." Snak posted:I agree with both of you. I really hope they do something like this. They did a really good job with Fisk, and even if they just try to copy that formula, I'm sure they will do great. Their hatred of Fisk could really tie in if Fisk had anything to do with his family's death. I would really dig it if they tie the bombing of the Russians to Castle's family death. That would tie him directly into the Daredevil story in many different ways without really altering things too much. They still got killed in a criminal crossfire (Fisk vs Russians); Daredevil's only involved as a red herring given to the Russians, after all. I don't know if they will but I think it would really make it all click and fit the timeline perfectly. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 10:42 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 09:35
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Blazing Ownager posted:Except that's kinda true with Superman. Read "Red Son". Which is interesting because Supes is still a boyscout but he's a communist, and despite the other problems in the comic (they force characters in just because), it's a really good story that shows how all that power is not all that great. But otherwise yes, I agree, Superman is boooorriiiing.
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Jun 27, 2015 13:12
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Something that crossed my mind back when I saw it, and then I forgot about until today. I forget which episode it was, but Matt's walking down the street with his cane, tapping his way along, and then he thows his cane away, and runs into an alley to climb up to a roof. I wonder how many times he's done that. Does he have a closet full of canes? And is there some hobo who keeps finding all the ones Matt tosess aside? Yeah, nothing important, just silly. v  v
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Jun 27, 2015 14:16
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When are we getting the title change to Daredevil Avocado at Law?
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Jun 27, 2015 16:52
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Gyges posted:When are we getting the title change to Daredevil Avocado at Law? Elevate that poo poo to QCS if you have to.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:
If you want a Superman that's both potentially corruptible and not omnipotent, may I suggest the hit film Man of Steel.
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Jun 27, 2015 17:21
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Whatever story written by Alan Moore for Superman, Miracleman, the Supreme or Tom Strong is a really strong argument for my point of view.
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Jun 27, 2015 21:25
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computer parts posted:If you want a Superman that's both potentially corruptible and not omnipotent, may I suggest the hit film Man of Steel. no don't
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Jun 28, 2015 00:11
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computer parts posted:If you want a Superman that's both potentially corruptible and not omnipotent, may I suggest the hit film Man of Steel. And then when you're done, I suggest heading over to the Comic Book Movie Megathread and letting everyone in there really know how you felt about the movie. They'll all appreciate it, I'm sure.
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Jun 28, 2015 16:11
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Kheldarn posted:Something that crossed my mind back when I saw it, and then I forgot about until today. I remember someone posting this exact thought like a month ago in this thread, so you aren't alone friend!
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Jun 28, 2015 17:57
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Hi thread, just finished the series, loved it. The only down note for me was (are spoiler tags still necessary?) Wesley nooooooo  I loved that smug, super-competent, utterly devoted bastard and actually got choked up when Fisk found his body. I understand how his death was necessary for Fisk's growth arc, but I wish he could have died (if at all) in a less atypically careless way. It's one thing for him to be off his game doing something he doesn't usually do and while under stress, but seriously, how could he have not known the gun was loaded? At least he could have died while still competent.  What are the odds of him being mysteriously magically resurrected offscreen like Phil Coulson and coming back to the show? Or any MCU iteration? Or at least getting some flashbacks with him is season 2? Any rumors?
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Jun 28, 2015 22:17
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Rabbit Hill posted:Hi thread, just finished the series, loved it. The only down note for me was (are spoiler tags still necessary?) Wesley nooooooo Almost no chance he will be resurrected, as far as I know. He knew the gun was loaded. He was bluffing, because he didn't think Karen was a killer. He thought wrong.
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Jun 28, 2015 22:20
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He obviously knew the gun was loaded and was flailing trying to keep control of the situation.
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Jun 28, 2015 22:21
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Squidster posted:They should make The Punisher a fun-loving sociopath. A confident, happy man satisfied that his bullets make the world a better place. Let Matt have a monopoly on doubt and fear - contrast him with someone who 'has it all' by taking the easy way out every time. This is absolutely the last thing they should ever do, apart from Castle never doubting himself. If Frank Castle was happy he wouldn't be the Punisher.
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Jun 29, 2015 10:29
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Snak posted:Almost no chance he will be resurrected, as far as I know. He knew the gun was loaded. He was bluffing, because he didn't think Karen was a killer. He thought wrong. drat. He was cool. 
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Jun 29, 2015 13:26
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Rabbit Hill posted:What are the odds of him being mysteriously magically resurrected offscreen like Phil Coulson and coming back to the show? Or any MCU iteration? Or at least getting some flashbacks with him is season 2? Any rumors? Less than zero. Kingpin goes through right-hand men like toilet paper. See: Arranger, The Dan, Fancy Hammerhead Smythe, Alistair Landon, Herbert Winkler, Dr. Gerhard Hobgoblin (Urich, Phil) etc.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:44
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Rabbit Hill posted:drat. He was cool. They'll probably use his son if they decide to use The Owl but, yeah, I was sorry to see the charachter get whacked also. I think they should just do the Elektra, Punisher, Bullseye and Kingpin bit for season 2 though. That poo poo practically writes itself it's been done so well. They can move into the Bendis Brubaker stuff once they establish Born Again and the Miller run. I hope they don't get too nuts with The Hand but obviously they'll need them in there somewhere.
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Jun 29, 2015 16:59
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BiggerBoat posted:They'll probably use his son if they decide to use The Owl Thats Owlsley (Jr), not Wesley.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:03
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I just finished watching the show and also just came here to say Wesley's death bummed me out. He was the smuggest of characters.
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Jun 30, 2015 02:42
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computer parts posted:If you want a Superman that's both potentially corruptible and not omnipotent, may I suggest the hit film Man of Steel. The reason Man of Steel blows is Superman is both hosed up, and nobody involved in the film seems to understand how hosed up he is. Or how dumb everyone is. His father's death is one of the most hilariously pointless deaths ever. But yeah even when you have a Superman who's willing to throw cars through loaded buildings, it doesn't have any punch if nobody involved in the movie acknowledges it. In fact the only way I might get somewhat onboard with Batman vs Superman is if they flat out have the reason Batman wants to hunt him as being he's a murder-machine in the first movie. In fact I'd say he's less corruptible, and really just more of a dick. I think Marvel's inclusion of scenes where it's heroes are actually trying to minimize deaths is a direct result of Man of Steel. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 23:22
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Blazing Ownager posted:But yeah even when you have a Superman who's willing to throw cars through loaded buildings, He never actually does this, FYI. (But this is the Daredevil thread so I won't continue this derail!)
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Jun 30, 2015 23:30
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computer parts posted:He never actually does this, FYI. At least the one guy Superman killed didn't have to burn to death and then have everyone ignore his death. Good thing for Matt that Catholicism apparently grants you one manslaughter mulligan.
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Jun 30, 2015 23:51
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Gyges posted:At least the one guy Superman killed didn't have to burn to death and then have everyone ignore his death. Good thing for Matt that Catholicism apparently grants you one manslaughter mulligan. Just statistically speaking, the odds are good that one death of the tens of thousands caused by superman in that movie probably involved fire somehow. If you destroy enough of a city, eventually you'll come across some fuel and it will spill and then woosh, flaming agony.
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Jul 1, 2015 00:25
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counterfeitsaint posted:Just statistically speaking, the odds are good that one death of the tens of thousands caused by superman in that movie probably involved fire somehow. If you destroy enough of a city, eventually you'll come across some fuel and it will spill and then woosh, flaming agony. You must have watched a different movie, because in Man of Steel the only person Superman kills is Zod. It's not even like Daredevil's drop a guy off a roof an shrug about him being in a coma, because that's technically keeping with your not killing, except for ninjas, rule.
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Jul 1, 2015 02:24
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pull up thread PULL UP
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Jul 1, 2015 06:33
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I hope S2 adapts a lot of Daredevil/Punisher: Means & Ends. That book is great and they really go at it in it. The covers are just an escalation of violence.
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Jul 1, 2015 06:54
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