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dude789 posted:Titty god is so bad at this. He really should have gone with his first plan... do nothing. It's the safest option for him. Although in his defense he's not even particularly untrustworthy compared to the other players, it's just that he's extremely bad at hiding it and he is not smart enough to profit from it like Sangmin for example.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:07
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That was a good-rear end episode, yeah. First of all, Jinho gets Extreme Ways as his theme song, yesssss. Main Match was won by a pretty bold move by Sangmin, who I feel is playing unlike himself? Going for solo victories wasn't really his style, I feel. Junseok and TITTYGOD are there just to be jokers, those guys smashed any careful planning by the 11-man alliance with their decisions. Hyunmin's calculations and strategies are worth poo poo when two players do whatever the gently caress they want. I'd be sniping those two (and Sangmin, on principle alone) ASAP, if only to avoid them making a mess out of things. I'm back to default "can't remember Korean names that well", so I'll say the girl that got the convict card made the correct play dumping it on the old dude. Pretty sure it says something about Korean culture that Sangmin panicked when he realized that the convict card changed hands too..that, or he was deathly afraid of it landing on Jinho/Dongmin/Hyunmin and him burning even more bridges. I'll say that banning Quattro (Quattro had audience participation a couple of times before) and all the memory games were pretty smart vetoes by both deathmatch players. Old Dude had a better shot at any gambling contest than other games, but he got outplayed plain and simple. Evil won. Poor Old Dude.
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Jul 1, 2015 21:12
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extreme ways 
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Jul 1, 2015 21:21
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Dias posted:That was a good-rear end episode, yeah. That was the perfect decision because Old Dude was Sangmin's biggest detractor. This way Sangmin wins the main match, removes someone who was openly mocking Sangmin at the beginning, gains the most garnets for the upcoming Garnet Match, doesn't burn Old Man bridge because he's pretty forgiving overall, destroys the main alliance and makes future alliances shaky and more open to more conniving measures, and gets to make it all seem like it's Tittygod's fault for being such a dumbass. Also he gets Tittygod as a flunky but I'd argue that that's more a hindrance than anything else. It was a pretty perfect play honestly. Nobody will even get that angry at him because Sangmin has a buffer of three people that everyone hates more. Edit: Jinho - Iron Man Kyungrun - Captain America Dongmin - Hulk Hyunmin - Thor Sangmin - Black Widow Yohwan - Loki Soylentbits fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 21:21
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 Extreme ways are back again
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Jul 1, 2015 21:28
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Tonfa posted:
Boy are they ever. 
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Jul 1, 2015 21:38
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Sangmin, you sly devil. I'm glad this show is back and it was nice to get fully invested into this show again. The editing still plays me like a fiddle. Fun times to be had over this summer. 
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Jul 1, 2015 21:43
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*Jinho walks through the door* GUITAR SCREECHES Aaaaaa!  Extreme Ways, you I missed most of all
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Jul 1, 2015 21:46
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Tonfa posted:
That was so good, welcome back The Genius. I'm so sad about old man Junghyun, he's only just arrived and it's already time for him to look into the sea. He was my favourite. I'm really upset now, but it was a good episode so it's ok. Can't wait til next week.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:02
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I will stand in line for this. There's always room in life for this.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:07
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Man, that was a fantastic first episode. I love how everyone got their own theme song Extreme Ways for Jinho and that Mi Mi Mi thing for Kyunghoon were perfect . Main match seemed like it was going to be fairly dull after a while but I was so glad to be wrong. Was hoping for Junghyun to pick Junseok so that was great. Super disappointed he lost though. Junghyun was the best part of the latter half of S2 so seeing him go so soon was pretty bad. 
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Jul 1, 2015 22:10
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So many black bars but I don't have time to watch until this evening 
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Jul 1, 2015 22:18
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That was a really good ep and I'm glad Junseok tried to muck up the alliance by going for the solo win. Basically he realized that the first 3 seasons were dominated by majority alliances that guaranteed wins and he wanted to shake that up as early as possible. I was rooting for him to pull it off because Hyunmin always calculates these easy victories that make the main matches boring and usually leave 1-2 people out in the cold. Hopefully this ep prompts the remaining players to think outside their comfort zone moving forward.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:20
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Dias posted:Main Match was won by a pretty bold move by Sangmin, who I feel is playing unlike himself? Going for solo victories wasn't really his style, I feel. Junseok and TITTYGOD are there just to be jokers, those guys smashed any careful planning by the 11-man alliance with their decisions. Hyunmin's calculations and strategies are worth poo poo when two players do whatever the gently caress they want. I'd be sniping those two (and Sangmin, on principle alone) ASAP, if only to avoid them making a mess out of things. I actually thought he had something like this planned (if the opportunity was there). Sangmin is a smart dude, but he must know he can't outplay guys like Hyunmin and Jinho in pure game theory. This way he gets to show his strength (winning the game), gets everyone to realize that they can't fully rely on players like Hyunmin to do everything and forces these better players to bring him into their plans (hence him immediately handing Hyunmin a peace token). I think he panicked simply because he probably didn't realize in advance he would have to play right away again, and his refusal would immediately reveal who had the convict card and make that player an immediate outcast. It would also show that he betrayed his team, which is why he took control and just told the guy.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:27
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Dias posted:
He freaked out because he was the next in line to have to trade with old dude, thus, Sangmin would have ended up with the convict. You even saw the other people thinking that Sangmin was being honorable thinking Sangmin had the convict and didn't want to trade it to old dude out of respect, but it was really cause he didn't want to lose.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:29
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Dragonatrix posted:
Junghyun was the person I was most rooting for. But again his love of a noble victory was betrayed by Sangmin.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:36
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Things are going great for Yohwan. He is already making himself look like a total loser. Just you wait till he becomes Skylar of this season and steals Jinhos Extreme Ways  .
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Jul 1, 2015 22:48
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Crime Scene is over now, so people don't need to whine about it being in this thread anymore. That was a good 13 person episode. Sucks that the old guy had to go, but he was always a wallflower in season 2. Never really involved and just watching from the sidelines. Plus, it's better as time goes on and there are still villains. The intros when everyone came in were great. Extreme ways was good as Jinho enters, and I could anticipate the thread going nuts over it. With so many strong people I have no idea how this season will shape up and that's great. Also, I'm watching this as it comes out this time and was hyped to see it today. The game itself worked pretty well. I was wondering if the optimal way of doing things would be like that one Futurama episode where everyone trades with one another and then ends up with their original card, but since there were only three types of cards, it didn't need to be that complex. I mean, Futurama had to hire some mathematicians to prove it could be done. The huge alliance did have the exclusionary element to it, which would have been boring if everything worked out. I'm glad people messed with it a bit. Also, Sangmin is such a brat and it's awesome. If anyone could get away with that, it's him. Black and White is a neat deathmatch and it is interesting to watch, so no complaints there. I wonder if once they're played once, they disappear from the table? Excited to see this live this time.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:49
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This Post Sucks posted:He freaked out because he was the next in line to have to trade with old dude, thus, Sangmin would have ended up with the convict. You even saw the other people thinking that Sangmin was being honorable thinking Sangmin had the convict and didn't want to trade it to old dude out of respect, but it was really cause he didn't want to lose. Oh, that would make sense, I forgot he was also in line for that.
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Jul 1, 2015 22:50
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CommaToes posted:Black and White is a neat deathmatch and it is interesting to watch, so no complaints there. I wonder if once they're played once, they disappear from the table? That's be great. I can much more easily stomach one Tactical Yutnori than two. Could also explain why it was phased as "some number of vetoes" instead of "three vetoes".
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Jul 1, 2015 23:07
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This first episode was absolutely ruthless. Junseok makes the perfect villain. I'm sad that Mr. Magoo had to leave since I was rooting for him (his bumbling lightheartedness was charming), but honestly this is probably for the best. The best Genius games are those that turn into a huge clusterfuck near the end - Season 3 was a bit too easy imo with the "perfect" plans, so it's fun seeing more people with the guts to ruin the flow. Sangmin Stirring up trouble in S1E1, and now S4E1. I'm super excited to see where this season will go! Also, there better be huge moments with Extreme Ways playing to make up for its absence in S3. The contestants are good enough for it.
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Jul 1, 2015 23:08
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That was great!! I'm very sad about goofy dad losing though I wanted some good bts of his stories. I'm pretty stoked for how this turned out because at least if nothing else this won't be a Sangmin super alliance snoozefest, plus Sangmin is always better in this mode. I love that fate always seems to give him a wildcard if it can.
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Jul 1, 2015 23:09
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Sangmin you glorious motherfucker! / Titty God, you useless pile of sadness and angst, it's all your fault. I was squealing like a little girl that whole episode, no joke. With Extreme Ways back again, I'm hoping Young and Beautiful makes a comeback too. That song made for some really beautiful moments in the first season. I'd say it got better use in season 1 than it did in The Great Gatsby. ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 23:17
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Going back to this:Dias posted:
After thinking about the "playing unlike himself" part, I don't think that's the case. Sangmin is a pretty smart guy who encourages alliances and follows through with joint wins if they work (like S1E5 with Kyungran and the zombie game). I think he noticed that Junseok was planning on breaking the joint win, with Yohwan and Titty-god likely to help because why not, and decided that he'd do something instead. I'm looking forward to Kyungran acting as the enforcer of justice in the future. Her glare in the opening  I missed that.
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Jul 1, 2015 23:25
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Nondevor posted:Going back to this: You're not wrong, in hindsight it was a calculated decision and something he did before, but after seeing him dominate S2 with alliances for the longest time it came a bit out of left field. Honestly, I think he jumped on the opportunity Tittygod's gently caress-up gave him even before that - as soon as he realized the convict changed hands and everyone was confused, he saw the power play and Junseok's disruption just made it even stronger. I'm not sure double-crossing most of the cast (and trying to make a reliable ally out of Tittygod) would be the smartest thing to do too, even if he'll probably get away with it. On another note, Jinho and Hyunmin kinda got overshadowed this episode. I'm guessing there's gonna be a lot of power shifts depending on whether the main match is a social game or more theory-based.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:21
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I think the reason he was able to keep such strong alliances in S2 was more because he had an iron grip on all of them by the mid point than any real friendly coordination. This time, he's realized that making and keeping a season-long alliance would be all but impossible, so he opted to put himself in a strong position early so he could form Sangmin Kingdom later on. With the Garnet Match coming next episode, Having his extra garnet will probably be key.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:30
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Wow Sangnim you beautiful bastard, I'd read your book if you had one. The Genius is him so far. Shining of it. Any similarly HOLYWOW one-mind-victory event in previous seasons? I forget.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:31
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Jul 2, 2015 00:32
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I really thought Junghyun was gonna last longer than that. He was my favorite in season 2, and while I knew he wasn't going to win, I wanted him to at least make it to week 3. That was a fantastic first episode though, hopefully the rest of the season follows suit because that was great. A little disappointed all of the deathmatches are repeats this year, but at least they picked mostly good ones. Kyunghoon is going to be this season's Yohwan and fall upwards to the end isn't he?
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Jul 2, 2015 01:15
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im mad about the result
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Jul 2, 2015 01:18
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Tonfa posted:Extreme ways are back again Best part. The whole thing was amazing. Lim Yohwan - a remarkable 0 garnet, 0 match wins run So much like Hyunmin to come up with a strategy to pick the two elimination candidates off the bat, in week 1. He really isn't afraid to make a lot of enemies again. That said, I'll be disappointed if the finals end in anything but Dongmin passing his item to Hyunmin to take down Jinho  .
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Jul 2, 2015 01:38
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Great episode. I was wondering if you were allowed to hold 2 cards on you right up until Sangmin pulled the criminal out of his pocket. Pengwin posted:So much like Hyunmin to come up with a strategy to pick the two elimination candidates off the bat, in week 1. He really isn't afraid to make a lot of enemies again. That said, I'll be disappointed if the finals end in anything but Dongmin passing his item to Hyunmin to take down Jinho This was a little more interesting, since it grew out of someone making a mistake first. He usually just picked someone right off the bat before. His strategy this time relied on isolating two people who had traded with each other and no one else.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:51
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That was everything I was hoping from in a premiere, and instead of echoing what everyone else has said I want to give a shout-out to the editing of Kyunghoon telling his group he had the convict to his alliance and the immediate cut from Yoonsun's disappointed face to Yoonsun in the middle of the majority alliance talking about the joint win. I hope the clown brigade of Kyunghoon/Yohwan/Junseok are all out pretty soon, I'd love to see where this season would go if that happens.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:52
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The only thing that could have improved this episode would be St. Agnes and the Burning Train playing anytime Kyunghoon was still sitting around all rejected
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Jul 2, 2015 01:59
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Oh man, that was so much better than s3e1, the hype really paid off. I don't even know what to comment. I liked Kyungran catching Jinho's bullshit about calling the women strong. Yohwan's reaction for getting the convict card was classic Yohwan. I'd say the most impressive feat on this episode was how Sangmin read Junseok's betrayal. Jesus christ. Mr Magoo made the best comments, I was cracking up every time he said something. Man I'll really miss him. 
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Jul 2, 2015 01:59
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Symbolic Butt posted:I'd say the most impressive feat on this episode was how Sangmin read Junseok's betrayal. Jesus christ. That was definitely the most impressive moment, honestly. Realizing their plan was going to be de-railed and seizing the opportunity was pretty amazing.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:07
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Sangmin once again proves his intuition. Really glad to have The Genius back!
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Jul 2, 2015 03:05
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Wasn't the 4-point 11-man joint win strategy probably doomed here? If Sangmin didn't interfere and Junseok didn't try anything then everybody would have 4 points, except for Yohwan on 0 and Kyunghoon on 5 (2 for the Convict->Commoner trade, 3 from the last official Convict trade). And I thought Sangmin told Hyunmin that he had unofficially traded away the Convict card to Kyunghoon, so Hyunmin should've realized 4 points was insufficient. With 11 players though a 5 point strategy is doable (a given player has 10 possible trading partners, so that's 5x gaining 1pt and 5x giving away 1pt) which would give a 12 player joint win and might break the game. Well the exception here is if Kyunghoon was holding the Convict card which would automatically make him lose the round instead of winning it (which was actually the case, but I don't think Hyunmin knew that, but maybe Sangmin told him.) Main match was interesting, but I think it revolved a bit too much around alliance play. It seems like the only strategy in that match revolved around teams - to maximize your points you need the maximum number of trading partners, to minimize other people's points you need to restrict their cards either by getting the 7 Commoners or by getting the 5 Nobles + 1 Convict (but the latter is disadvantageous because if forces someone into last place). You can betray an alliance to get a personal victory, but every move in the whole game requires cooperation so there isn't much scope for individual moves. Because there were so many people a lot of players got overshadowed but here's my thoughts on the players that got screentime. Jungmoon absolutely made the right choice in pretending she got a Noble then passing the Convict card off to the next player. "OH NO! The convict card! Sangmin lied!" would've been a fast track to the deathmatch, but playing along allowed her to pass the card on to Junghyun. And Yoohyun seemed proud that he was able to catch Sangmin's sleight of hand, but didn't seem to do anything about it so I'm not sure what he was excited about. Sangmin whispering in Hyunmin's ear was pretty funny, acting like The Genius equivalent of an evil vizier. But thinking about it they'd probably be a strong team together and I think Sangmin realizes that too. Anyway it's kind of bizarre how much people trust Sangmin given his track record, but in the long game think Dongmin is probably the one who's going to take the most offence to Sangmin's move. Kyunghoon was pretty terrible as usual, Yohwan was kind of useless as usual... Junseok also seemed to antagonize all the players unnecessarily but at least he had something that vaguely resembled a plan (but since he didn't follow through on it it seems like he just annoyed people for no reason). And I know people don't like exclusion alliances, but would anybody REALLY have a problem with a Kyunhoon vs Yohwan deathmatch? Whoever loses, we win. Junseok completely outplayed Junghyun in the deathmatch, even though Junghyun had more experience with it. I'm also a bit surprised that Junseok didn't want to play any 'brain games', because he seemed to do pretty well helping Jinho in the S1 final. And presumably each deathmatch is only going to be used once this season (11 different games available, for 11 deathmatches). Also Sangmin has to pretty happy about Junghyun getting eliminated since it seemed likely that they would clash a bit this season. And so far I'm liking the veto system for deathmatches. I also wonder what the rationale is behind removing garnets from the eliminated player. In S1 and S2 eliminated players passed their garnets on to the player who vanquished them which was a little unbalanced (it meant high garnet players were attractive targets and it meant deathmatch winners could rack up garnets faster than main match winners) but in S3 when they removed garnets from eliminated players it just lead to people passing their garnets over to friends for safe-keeping which uhh seemed kind of pointless (in theory it made high garnet targets less attractive since you could annihilate your own prize pool, but if someone is going to sabotage the prize pool to protect themselves then the later you leave it to eliminate them then the more garnets they'll have accumulated). Now this season seems to focus a bit more on garnets so maybe there's more ways to gain or lose garnets mid match, but still the charade of passing garnets back and forth seems kind of silly. Maybe eliminated garnets should get added to the prize pool of the subsequent round?
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Jul 2, 2015 03:16
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The problem with your logic is that Titty God traded his criminal for a Noble. So he would only get the 3 points for being the last criminal trader.Pengwin posted:So much like Hyunmin to come up with a strategy to pick the two elimination candidates off the bat, in week 1. He really isn't afraid to make a lot of enemies again. That said, I'll be disappointed if the finals end in anything but Dongmin passing his item to Hyunmin to take down Jinho He's just too pragmatic for his own good. He sees the game very mechanically, and doesn't consider the long term. ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 04:25
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ViggyNash posted:He's just too pragmatic for his own good. He sees the game very mechanically, and doesn't consider the long term. Yeah, Hyunmin is the best player at breaking down a game's mechanics and figuring out the optimal way to earn garnets and ensure the most people profit, as we saw in this episode. The problem is he's also ruthless in making that happen, and is mostly uncaring about who is left in or out of the arrangement. In the short term I don't see a real reason to not try to ally with him at the start of every game though, if only to not be left on the outside watching team "Ride Hyunmin to victory and profit" leave you in the dust. The other problem is that people almost never follow Hyunmin's plans completely, the exception being the jury game where he just spelled out a complete victory for everyone on his team and the teams had clearly defined sides. I can definitely see a Sangmin/Hyunmin alliance as super potent, with Hyunmin doing the plans and Sangmin making sure they're followed, or smoothing things over after the fact.
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