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I'm short, so ducking into a squat and counterattacking (cut/thrust to the forearm for sabre or epee, thrust to six just under the armpit for foil) is a very viable strategy for me - but only against tall people who aren't expecting it. Not to derail on to the subject of gloves again, but I've been hit hard enough to make me bleed through my glove before. With a foil. (glove in question was one of these - thin leather with padding on the outside of the fingers and hand. Probably not so good for heavy weapons but definitely saved me a lot of grief for foil/sabre/epee.) We practised fleches this week in training, drat that was fun. There are also a couple of newbies who are just on the verge of getting good enough to be fun to fence with without having to hold back too much.
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Jul 7, 2015 14:23
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That is one thing I learned from capoeira, to step in. The meaty part of your leg does not hurt like the heel would. I also am having a hard time maintaining sword distance.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:42
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Relearned an old lesson. Footsweeps do not work unless you are picking up or putting down your foot. drat, I am rusty.
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Jul 8, 2015 02:49
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Verisimilidude posted:You can duck slightly if your sword is in place to defend yourself from immediate counterattack. A drill I learned from JSA utilizes a very minor duck: one person has a padded gekken, and one person has nothing (hand/arm takes the place of a sword, or you can use a sword if you like). The goal of the drill is to not step backwards, which is the typical movement people tend to make when being attacked. You want to step towards your opponent, preferably off to their side (and within the reach of their sword), such that they need to turn their head to see you. Using your sword to shunt their blade (with longsword you can do this safely down to the crossguard or schilt). This teaches you to intercept a blow as it's coming towards you while simultaneously putting yourself into a very advantageous position to either strike or use a takedown. It also embodies the JSA concept of "seme" or pressure, part of which requires your defensive actions (blocking the sword) to be inherently offensive in nature (putting yourself into a strong position). Yeah, as I was taught it, the drill is to step in and to their weak side, shunt the attack past your weak shoulder, and throw the snap cross to their face. Unfortunately I failed at it.
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Jul 8, 2015 04:05
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Liquid Communism posted:Yeah, as I was taught it, the drill is to step in and to their weak side, shunt the attack past your weak shoulder, and throw the snap cross to their face. Unfortunately I failed at it. I never really thought about this, but I wonder if this would give me a slight advantage being left-handed. If I do this against a right-handed fencer and I step in on their weak side, I am now present with my strong side. Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 06:07
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Oh, trust me, you have an advantage being a lefty. Everything is backwards, and beat/opposition to quarte has to be done really, really well or else it doesn't work at all  thewireguy, if you are having trouble keeping distance, grab a partner about the same height as you and work out how far away you need to be to hit them with a lunge or similar attack. Then, from that distance, look at how far your tip is from theirs when you're both standing en garde. For foil, anyway, the "danger zone" is usually roughly when the tips cross - I'm not sure how much this changes for longsword (what is the typical en garde position for that, anyway?) but maybe there's some rough equivalent for you.
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Jul 8, 2015 08:17
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Is there anything like spear fencing? Always seemed like it would be easier to learn and more effective, but google only gives results for like, wooden fences with decorative spears.
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Jul 8, 2015 09:22
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Keldoclock posted:Is there anything like spear fencing? Always seemed like it would be easier to learn and more effective, but google only gives results for like, wooden fences with decorative spears. Or axes? Maybe that sca stuff... I am not trying to get Olympic, just have fun. And be king nerd one day.
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Jul 8, 2015 10:16
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Keldoclock posted:Is there anything like spear fencing? Always seemed like it would be easier to learn and more effective, but google only gives results for like, wooden fences with decorative spears. Quite a bit yeah http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Staff_Weapons
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Jul 8, 2015 10:23
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Crazy Achmed posted:For foil, anyway, the "danger zone" is usually roughly when the tips cross - I'm not sure how much this changes for longsword (what is the typical en garde position for that, anyway?) but maybe there's some rough equivalent for you. (I find the Italian useful, since it reminds me that Fiore is not Liechtenauer is not Suio-ryu. All of these have descending forehand blows, but the context is probably different across the styles.) So yeah, there really isn't a knack to measuring your distance in longsword. You kinda just have to see it, and that's something that comes with pair drills and pellwork. Keldoclock posted:Is there anything like spear fencing? Always seemed like it would be easier to learn and more effective, but google only gives results for like, wooden fences with decorative spears. They're approachable because it's Renaissance and they write like actual people.  Doesn't hurt, of course, that you can find all three books published fairly recently in modern English, too: Manciolino on Freelance Academy Press, Meyer also on Amazon, and di Grassi on Lulu.If you want a more sporting version, you can look up naginata-do (or, occasionally, atarashii naginata). It's kind of like kendo, but with the Japanese glaive. Siivola fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 10:31
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I think it's George Silver that said you use a longsword exactly the same way you use a spear.
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Jul 8, 2015 10:40
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it's all a knife-on-a-stick, there's just different stick : knife ratios
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Jul 8, 2015 10:43
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HEY GAL posted:it's all a knife-on-a-stick, there's just different stick : knife ratios I see you've played knifey spooney before. I appreciate all of the HEMA links, but I don't start a martial art unless I can practice it at least three times a week. I'll look into new Naginata. I won't be able to train, but I'm very interested in just what I can learn in my first six hours, and there's a place I can do it less than a day's travel from me.
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Jul 8, 2015 11:26
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I suspect that wushu might also have a spear form of some kind, but I can't say I really know anything about that. Siivola, so what are you generally doing with your weapon, then, if you're not attacking or being attacked by your opponent - surely you'd be doing some kind of guard or threaten? Or do you mean that there's no particular preference/tendency (whether taught as a "default" or just what people usually gravitate towards) for any particular stance? Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 13:36
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Crazy Achmed posted:I'm short, so ducking into a squat and counterattacking (cut/thrust to the forearm for sabre or epee, thrust to six just under the armpit for foil) is a very viable strategy for me - but only against tall people who aren't expecting it. Crazy Achmed posted:For foil, anyway, the "danger zone" is usually roughly when the tips cross - I'm not sure how much this changes for longsword (what is the typical en garde position for that, anyway?) but maybe there's some rough equivalent for you. Regarding th eguard posiiton, the sources present it roughly like this: They encourage you to keep changing your en-guard position constantly to keep your opponent from adapting his attack and his defense to your current guard. Each of the basic positions lends itself to attacks from certain directions or to certain types of attacks (thrust, cut). And each basic position lends itself to certain parries. In the end both parties will keep moving/changing/adapting until one thinks that he can attack into an opening and takes that opportunity (that said, longpoint is a nice and easy position with a lot of flexibility if you are unsure what to do). One (or both fencers) may score/take a hit now. If no clear hit was scored, they will probably be in the bind and continue from there. Also re: ducking in boxing because Muhammad Ali is just  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSFQrPzSAnE Nektu fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 16:42
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Nektu posted:I fully appreciate that us historical fencers can learn a LOT about speed from sport fencers, but could you leave his area of influence after you scored your hit before he can smack you back with a long and deep lunge like that one going for his armpit? You're planning to do it so that they end up at a distance where they're too close to get to you (say, charging big at you and, whoops, his target is done and he's tripping over you). But we're working with scoring boxes that won't register a second hit after a handful of milliseconds, so, y'know.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:02
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dupersaurus posted:You're planning to do it so that they end up at a distance where they're too close to get to you (say, charging big at you and, whoops, his target is done and he's tripping over you). But we're working with scoring boxes that won't register a second hit after a handful of milliseconds, so, y'know. 
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Jul 8, 2015 17:04
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Crazy Achmed posted:Siivola, so what are you generally doing with your weapon, then, if you're not attacking or being attacked by your opponent - surely you'd be doing some kind of guard or threaten? Or do you mean that there's no particular preference/tendency (whether taught as a "default" or just what people usually gravitate towards) for any particular stance? That said, if you look at tournament footage, people don't really do that a whole lot. There's a lot of waiting with the point in line sport fencer style, with no passing steps or other historical oddities. It wins points, I suppose. Here's what I think proper longsword tournament fencing should about look like. There's a beautiful exchange at 1:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiuUBu_k170
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Jul 8, 2015 17:52
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Siivola posted:That said, if you look at tournament footage, people don't really do that a whole lot. There's a lot of waiting with the point in line sport fencer style, with no passing steps or other historical oddities. It wins points, I suppose. I dont think its useful to change guards while you wait or move around out of range. It makes more sense to me if you see it as something that happens while you start pressuring your opponent with the preparation for an attack - while you are going out there to look for an attackable opening. (Disclaimer: Actually executing that in a useful way is a different thing altogether ).Siivola posted:Here's what I think proper longsword tournament fencing should about look like. There's a beautiful exchange at 1:40. In theory that fleeing from the bind (and the pulling back!) leaves the person breaking contact first open for a followthrough by his opponent (distance and so on permitting). Is that just because of the Federschwerter which dont work well for binding because they just wobble all over the place, or is it taught like that? Nektu fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 20:26
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Rabhadh posted:Quite a bit yeah That was neat.
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Jul 8, 2015 23:23
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Now that you mention it, that is pretty odd. I don't think it's that they're actively fleeing the bind as such, it looks more the blades just immediately deflect and it goes into a parry-riposte-parry-riposte rally. I haven't had the chance to do freeplay so I'm just guessing based on the drills we've done, but it's probably a mix of blunts, stiff gauntlets and prioritising speed over strength in the strikes that is to blame.
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Jul 8, 2015 23:58
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Nektu posted:If he gets that close in historical fencing, you wrestle him to the ground and/or make-believe-bash-his-head-in with your pommel Sport fencers do this too. It's frowned upon in tournaments, though.
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Jul 9, 2015 01:16
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My dearly loved neon yellow Balestras have finally bit the dust. I'd get another pair, but do any of you guys have experience with cheaper options? I'm particularly looking at the cheaper Nikes. Adidas historically run too narrow for me, and I'm not sure I have faith in the AF shoes.ScratchAndSniff posted:Sport fencers do this too. It's frowned upon in tournaments, though. I've had to red card this one guy multiple times for grabbing his opponent's foil with his off-hand.
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Jul 9, 2015 03:04
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I use an overpriced pair of d'artagnans (would not recommend), but one of the best guys I fence with swears by his cheap squash shoes from sports authority.
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Jul 9, 2015 03:47
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dupersaurus posted:My dearly loved neon yellow Balestras have finally bit the dust. I'd get another pair, but do any of you guys have experience with cheaper options? I'm particularly looking at the cheaper Nikes. Adidas historically run too narrow for me, and I'm not sure I have faith in the AF shoes. Jesucristo you ref an awful sport
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Jul 9, 2015 05:52
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Jesucristo you ref an awful sport All sports are awful to ref, believing otherwise is naive. Only ref if you want to see the absolute dredges of the sport. That said, Summer Nats just ended, and I'm already getting emails for tourneys for the upcoming season. Oh well, they can't keep me at a 6 forever! Right? Of course they can. 
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Jul 9, 2015 08:08
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BirdOfPlay posted:All sports are awful to ref, believing otherwise is naive.
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Jul 9, 2015 08:16
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As a rookie, I have been doing mostly basics for a month now, but they will throw in an advanced move at the end, usually in a bind, where you turn the sword upside down, let go with one hand, grab it again and t urn and pull t he other guy, sometimes ending up with his sword in your hand. (this is hems) I never see the other guys doing this when I watch the big boys spar after hours, but it is pretty fun.
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Jul 9, 2015 08:18
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thewireguy posted:As a rookie, I have been doing mostly basics for a month now, but they will throw in an advanced move at the end, usually in a bind, where you turn the sword upside down, let go with one hand, grab it again and t urn and pull t he other guy, sometimes ending up with his sword in your hand. (this is hems) I never see the other guys doing this when I watch the big boys spar after hours, but it is pretty fun. A lot of techniques that work from the bind are impossible to do with blunt weapons which is a huge shame really as I really want to dent some fuckers mask with my buckler
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Jul 9, 2015 09:43
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Rabhadh posted:A lot of techniques that work from the bind are impossible to do with blunt weapons which is a huge shame really as I really want to dent some fuckers mask with my buckler I want a shield bad. I read a book, fiction, not a manual or anything, where the hero was instructed to put the shield in his dominant hand so that he would focus on defense first. I thought that was profound.
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Jul 9, 2015 09:50
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I'm obvs not an expert here but I would have assumed that if you treat your shield as a purely defensive thing you're wasting a load of potential
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Jul 9, 2015 10:46
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HEY GAL posted:he meant that at some point in history, fencing changed from a thing where you are encouraged to grab a dude's sword and punch him in the head (good) to one where you are penalized for it (bad) Does HEMA or whatever really let you punch each other? I thought most of the historical stuff had more like a limited form of wrestling. Would seriously like to see a vid where a swordfight ends in a knockout.
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Jul 9, 2015 12:48
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Not in a tournament, no. But in the original context, it's anything goes. I will strike you so hard in the groin That all of your strength will be taken away.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:14
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Siivola posted:I will strike you so hard in the groin
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Jul 9, 2015 13:26
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Jesucristo you ref an awful sport No, he's just a moron.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:55
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Siivola posted:Not in a tournament, no. But in the original context, it's anything goes. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 16:31
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dupersaurus posted:No, he's just a moron. HEY GAL posted:he meant that at some point in history, fencing changed from a thing where you are encouraged to grab a dude's sword and punch him in the head (good) to one where you are penalized for it (bad) This is correct, though not "encouraged" in a general sense, just encouraged under the right circumstances. thewireguy posted:I want a shield bad. I read a book, fiction, not a manual or anything, where the hero was instructed to put the shield in his dominant hand so that he would focus on defense first. I thought that was profound. That doesn't make any sense to me. The dominant hand is your weapon hand, so really it would just make him less effective and/or teach him ambidexterity maybe? Rabhadh posted:I'm obvs not an expert here but I would have assumed that if you treat your shield as a purely defensive thing you're wasting a load of potential This is correct. I.33 shows striking with the buckler, and Stephen Hand has shown a pretty good interpretation of attacking with a centre-gripped shield, some of which probably translates over into the flatter kite shapes and other strapped forms.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:52
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:This is correct, though not "encouraged" in a general sense, just encouraged under the right circumstances. I guess as like a drill to teach you that if you are good with the shield, relatively simple attacks might work? no one actually fought like that.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:21
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If you wanted to go defense with a shield, you can just shift so that your left foot (and thus your off hand) is forward, which makes it easier (?) to defend, and keeps your weapon in your main hand.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:35
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:This is correct, though not "encouraged" in a general sense, just encouraged under the right circumstances. Yeah ambidextrousness. I try that out regularly. I have a fear of losing my hand, maybe star wars did this. Also, the green belt in judo was trying the throes on the other side, so I see how that is valuable.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:25
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