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 WHAT.IS.THIS.GAME? BIT.TRIP.RUNNER is the fourth installment of the BIT.TRIP rhythm games by Gaijin games, released in 2010 for Wiiware and for other platforms the next year. It's an autoscrolling platformer where you enter inputs to the beat of the game and it gained something of a reputation for being a pretty difficult game. I can't resist that crap. HOW.ARE.YOU.DOING.THIS.LP? This is pretty much an exercise in trying to remain quiet. I'll explain the game mechanics as they come along and discuss some of the elements and things the game throws your way, but seeing how it's a music game, I'm not going to talk too much. If you still find it too intrusive and want to immerse yourself in the music, I suggest you go watch a subtitled LP of the BIT.TRIP series by Ambisagrus. Furthermore, unlike the aforementioned LP, this is a 100% run. I'll be playing on Perfect difficulty, which forces you to get every collectible. ANYTHING.ELSE? Just enjoy! Also feel free to discuss anything BIT.TRIP related and don't worry about spoilers. If you like the music, here's the soundtrack! VIDEOS  PART 1 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) PART 2 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download)  PART 1 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) PART 2 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download)  PART 1 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) PART 1.5 (Intermission)(Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) PART 2 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) Wugga fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jul 5, 2015 23:05
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Reserved for possible use in the future!
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Jul 5, 2015 23:08
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I've played this game (a bit), but I'm pretty sure I've never managed to finish one of these retro areas. But then again, I'm fairly bad at anything that auto-scrolls. Is the "perfect" mark on a level dependent on score (i.e., do you have to kick down all of these purple barriers), or is it just collecting all of the gold pieces (and maybe the score multipliers)?
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Jul 6, 2015 00:07
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Bonfire Lit posted:I've played this game (a bit), but I'm pretty sure I've never managed to finish one of these retro areas. But then again, I'm fairly bad at anything that auto-scrolls. Perfect runs are just dependent on getting all gold pieces and the cores. Score has nothing to do with it.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:17
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UPDATE! (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) At the time of posting this Youtube is still in the middle of processing, so if you want to view this in its full 1080p 60fps glory (which you should), go to Baldurdash or download it. I'm leaving town for a few days but I just wanted to post this before I left. Aaaanyway, that does it for Zone 1, thank goodness. I was stuck in Odyssey for ages my first time through and got real tired of the gray colour scheme. I still don't like it. Thankfully Zone 2 is easier on the eyes and has a lot more going for it.
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Jul 8, 2015 12:27
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Because I'm a giant  here's what I've seen for how scoring has worked thus far.Multipliers
Base Point Values
The points from cores are multiplied by whatever mode they're upgrading to, so the actual points received from them are:
As one additional side note, every hit on the Mingrawn Timbletot was apparently worth 500 million points.
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Jul 8, 2015 13:47
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I never actually paid any attention to the score myself. It's completely redundant because if everything gives you a fixed amount of points, everyone with a perfect ends up getting the exact same amount. As far as I know, there are no penalties for dying or anything so it's just an entirely pointless statistic. And I think there's actually a leaderboard in the main menu, too. What's the point of that? Still, getting half a billion points for just one thing is hilariously over the top.
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Jul 8, 2015 22:06
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I think the 2nd world is the only world in which its impossible to get a Perfect without getting a perfect score. There's a couple of breakable objects you can miss in the 1st world, and you can duck under the beats in the 3rd one. Also, good luck with 3-2's challenge level. That's the only challenge stage that I could never get a Perfect on. There's way too many pixel perfect jumps in that one.  At least the actual level is one of the shortest stages in the game.
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Jul 8, 2015 22:12
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Is there an achievement for carefully dodging every gold that isn't inescapably jammed in your way?
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Jul 8, 2015 22:22
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:Is there an achievement for carefully dodging every gold that isn't inescapably jammed in your way? No, because there's an easy mode in the game. All it does is get rid of the gold. None of the levels change whatsoever.
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Jul 8, 2015 22:25
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Dr. Fetus posted:I think the 2nd world is the only world in which its impossible to get a Perfect without getting a perfect score. There's a couple of breakable objects you can miss in the 1st world, and you can duck under the beats in the 3rd one. Oh right, good point. There's also a couple springboards you don't need to activate. And yeah I'm already a little afraid of the 3rd Zone because I only have a perfect in a few levels right now. Zone 2 is already recorded but it's a lot tamer than the final one. So it's definitely going to get interesting. And frustrating. I have a feeling I might need a new controller before this is over.
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Jul 8, 2015 22:36
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At least three separate times I've started this game up, played through the first 10 levels, and ended my run after an hour or two of attempts at Odyssey. I've still never beaten it. The difficulty has a major spike at that level, mostly due to it's length. Nice save, by the way.
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Jul 10, 2015 08:14
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This is quite nice to watch, though the retro levels give me eyestrain, and nothing gives me eyestrain, it's weird. Also, I don't like how there is no music there. Super Meat Boy had great 8-bit style tunes for its retro levels, I guess bit.trip is already 8 bit (?), but complete silence is jarring in what's supposedly a rhythm game... You could fill it with commentary  .
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Jul 10, 2015 11:54
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Simply Simon posted:Also, I don't like how there is no music there. Super Meat Boy had great 8-bit style tunes for its retro levels, I guess bit.trip is already 8 bit (?), but complete silence is jarring in what's supposedly a rhythm game... The silence bums me out too. I mean there's the rhythm from the gold pieces, but it's just one note. Initially I was planning on making my own tunes to fill the silence, but my recording equipment is broken/scattered about in boxes so that won't fly. I'll try to think of more stuff to say in future episodes. GKirby posted:
Haha, nice. I hoped someone would notice it!
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Jul 10, 2015 14:09
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Two notes and a question: 1. What was that you highlighted in the background at one point? I couldn't understand what you said. 2. The reason kick was removed in retro is probably because it's silent- if its length is timed to the rhythm, you won't have the same sort of barometer for it. Simply Simon posted:This is quite nice to watch, though the retro levels give me eyestrain, and nothing gives me eyestrain, it's weird. 3. The devs appear to have applied a subtle effect to the screen on retro that causes subtle flickering and burned in areas to simulate pixel burn and other old screen effects- that's probably what's causing it. I'm really looking forward to this LP, even as I become curious about the rest of the series- it's all way beyond my ability, though.
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Jul 18, 2015 21:21
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Discendo Vox posted:Two notes and a question: 1. It's Junior Melchkin, apparently a playable character in BIT.TRIP.FATE and also the name of the level in which he appears. I admit that was a bit cryptic. 2. Oddly enough, the kick actually makes a sound in the retro challenges, even though it isn't used. I think I show it in Zone 2. 3. Yes, the middle of the screen flickers. Initially I thought there was something wrong with my recording/encoding but it's definitely a part of the game.
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Jul 18, 2015 22:44
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Junior Melchkin is only a temporary power-up in BIT.TRIP FATE. The only game with multiple playable characters in the series is BIT.TRIP RUNNER 2, though Junior Melchkin isn't one of them. I believe the reason the silence in retro stages is an attempt to stay faithful to the Atari 2600 games in which music wasn't exactly a given. That doesn't make it any less jarring though.
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Jul 19, 2015 09:00
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DoublePLayer posted:Junior Melchkin is only a temporary power-up in BIT.TRIP FATE. The only game with multiple playable characters in the series is BIT.TRIP RUNNER 2, though Junior Melchkin isn't one of them. Right, thanks for clearing that up. I never played FATE, or any other BIT.TRIP game so my knowledge is a bit limited. I bought Runner 2 yeaterday, though. I only beat the first world, but it definitely feels more polished than this one. Oh, and here's an update. We're already half-way through the LP! TENACITY PART 1 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) As I stated in the video, Zone 2 is where the game gets interesting. The input sequences are getting more complex, but it's only a good thing. Zone 1 suffers from slow levels and preys on your boredom, which is why I was stuck in it for so long. Once I finally got to Zone 2, I beat the game in a few sessions, even though the game definitely gets harder. Tenacity is also a lot more pleasing to the eye, which is why I probably didn't get tired of it so quickly. The levels are all a complete mess in my head, but iirc the game gets harder from this point onwards, with more and more complex and precise inputs.
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Jul 20, 2015 13:18
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Good lord those minecarts in the background are disgusting - I must have missed at least 5 meteors that moved precisely alongside them. Their speed is too synched, and the carts are too big - I didn't even realize that they were in the background at first! Some of the jumping sequences later in the video were quite beautiful, though. I feel like this can only get better and better! And echoing the complaints about the score system - it makes zero sense except for a cheap "numbers big" gratification, which immediately becomes laughable parody considering how big the numbers are.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:55
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Wugga posted:Right, thanks for clearing that up. I never played FATE, or any other BIT.TRIP game so my knowledge is a bit limited. I bought Runner 2 yeaterday, though. I only beat the first world, but it definitely feels more polished than this one. It's also much easier than RUNNER 1, as I managed to triple perfect the whole game (that is, beat all of the levels on all three difficulty levels) in 27 hours according to Steam. The only zone I have managed to perfect in RUNNER 1 is Zone 2, but god drat it I'm gonna go back and finish that one up as well. ...Someday.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:18
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The scoring system is something that's been in all the other BIT.TRIP games. But all the BIT.TRIP games are pretty much different games. BEAT and FLUX are basically pong, but more elaborate. FATE is a SHMUP. CORE is the only game that actually plays like a rhythm game. I dunno what to classify VOID as. Those games have arcade style gameplay, so the scoring system makes sense there. It's pretty pointless in RUNNER since it's far easier to get a perfect in there than in any other BIT.TRIP games. For reference, a world in RUNNER would equate to one stage in a different BIT.TRIP game.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:09
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RUNNER is also the only game in the series that doesn't actively hate the player; getting a perfect score in most of the levels of RUNNER is very easy in comparison to what, say, one stage of BEAT will put you through.
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Jul 21, 2015 01:36
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 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) This is where the game gets more interesting. Slobbering Falls marks the point where the actual levels themselves start to incorporate more difficult patterns and it makes the game soooo much more enjoyable. The rest of the levels aren't that bad in comparison, but that may be just me. The retro levels also continue to be more difficult than the actual levels, but they're still easy compared to what we'll see in Zone 3. The difficulty curve is much more noticeable in the actual levels. I may be overstating the fact that Zone 2 is the way the game should've started, but it's just incredibly more engaging than the bland Zone 1. I get that the player needs to be settled in for the gameplay, but Zone 1 just killed the mood for me: it was too easy. It's a whole other deal collecting all the gold and getting a perfect score but personally I think the game should've taken a turn for more difficult patterns a lot quicker. Then again, Zone 3 is so ruthless I may take all this back when we get to the next video.
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Aug 4, 2015 01:39
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So, here's a question: Can you, in a non-Perfect run, get all the Gold without hitting max Level? If so, do you get the bonus stage, and is your trail different? Also (Final Stage Spoilers) Will you be showing off how it's possible to Game Over?
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Aug 4, 2015 02:43
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Wugga, I think you might be underestimating the degree to which your skillz differentiate you from other players of this game. I really think the simplicity of the early levels(even odyssey) is necessary for neophyte superspeedytwitchmemoriperfectionists.
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Aug 4, 2015 02:51
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Valgaav posted:So, here's a question: Can you, in a non-Perfect run, get all the Gold without hitting max Level? If so, do you get the bonus stage, and is your trail different? I actually had to test this, but yes you can reach the retro level by just collecting all gold pieces and leaving the Core pieces alone. The trail is still the "Extra" Rainbow Trail in the retro level though. And regarding your spoiler: yes, I will. It's already recorded. Discendo Vox posted:Wugga, I think you might be underestimating the degree to which your skillz differentiate you from other players of this game. I really think the simplicity of the early levels(even odyssey) is necessary for neophyte superspeedytwitchmemoriperfectionists. Well, I pretty consider myself a neophyte noob as well because I've owned this game since 2011 yet never beat the game until recently, because I was stuck in aforementioned early levels (particularly Odyssey). I can't speak for other gamers, of course, but Zone 1 drags on for too long in my book. But maybe it's just me.
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Aug 4, 2015 03:01
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I've been trying to think of a way to articulate why I didn't like the game. I think it's largely because I think it fundamentally fails as a rhythm game, so all that's left is an endless runner type game, which I can't stand. The best rhythm game interfaces are all very clean as to where you need to look. Consider the interfaces for Rock Band, or Taiko no Tatsujin. They both have very clearly defined target zones, and the notes you have to hit stand out, and they all move predictably. There are some flashy things outside the approach szone if you will, but they don't demand your attention. The relevant information about the level is cleanly presented. In Runner, there are so many distractions. The background is busy, especially with its moving elements like the mine cards Simply Simon mentioned. The obstacles generally move towards you at a constant rate, until one of those tiny cube things flies in from out of nowhere. It's not there when I play my copy, but in the videos, the flash when you collect the gold is blinding. Even with a bad interface though, I think it fundamentally fails as a rhythm game because it demands the player be off sync with the music and sound cues. Whenever you collect, jump over, slide under, or kick something, it plays a sound cue to make some kind of melody with the background track. The problem is that you can't jump, slide, or kick to that rhythm because if you do, you're already done for. So instead, you play trying to keep the tempo in mind, but needing to deliberately ignore the "intended" timing. So, I tried to play it as an endless runner, and I really didn't like it. According to Steam, I spent about two hours on zone one before giving up on Odyssey. I'm sloppy and inconsistent, so it was an easy place to just drop the game. Maybe I'd have enjoyed it more if I could play some of the zone 2 levels, but it just never clicked with me like Super Meat Boy or VVVVVV. I have to say though, I'm a little disappointed you haven't tapped your own rhythm in the empty stretches of levels.
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Aug 4, 2015 03:49
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unpronounceable posted:Even with a bad interface though, I think it fundamentally fails as a rhythm game because it demands the player be off sync with the music and sound cues. Whenever you collect, jump over, slide under, or kick something, it plays a sound cue to make some kind of melody with the background track. The problem is that you can't jump, slide, or kick to that rhythm because if you do, you're already done for. So instead, you play trying to keep the tempo in mind, but needing to deliberately ignore the "intended" timing. I was planning on talking about this at some point, but the "off-beat" problem was also my main gripe with the game for a very long time. It always rubbed me wrong that the beat is created by the obstacles, not by the player hitting a button. It's kind of like trying to record an instrument for a backing track, but there's a short latency that creates the sound slightly off-time. It's an absolute horror for a musician. Once I completely ignored that I started to enjoy the game more. But I fully agree it doesn't really work as a rhythm game, per se. It's refreshing to see someone else noticing this, whenever I've brought it up people just looked at me weird and I thought it was a sync problem with my computer. And man I somehow totally forgot about using the arrow keys to create your own melody, that was a missed opportunity right there, dammit.  It would've been a good way to break the tedium for the early levels. But since I've already recorded everything I'll just have to cut my losses and move on. It also apparently stops working when you get all powerups, which is silly.
Wugga fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 10:26
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Why are the trees swastikas
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Aug 4, 2015 23:13
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^ Haha oh man I'm so including that in an extra video. TRIUMPH PART 1 (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download) I really didn't mean to sound so irate in this video, but 3-2 just did it for me. Holy poo poo Dr. Fetus you weren't kidding when you said that retro challenge is hard. I get it, this game is hard. But that level is beyond difficult, it's romhack level bullshit. I tried a number of strategies for it, jumping a bit later, doing a bit of hovering after 1 jump, after 2 jumps, after 3 jumps... nothing worked. What finally got me through that was tenacity. Hell, they should've named that one retro level tenacity instead of the whole of Zone 2. Because that's all it takes, just playing it dozens of times, hoping you'll get it right at some point. It took me 3 separate recording sessions to finally get it right. There are difficult retro levels after that, but once I beat this one I knew I could beat the rest of them with a little bit of effort. Look at me, here I am ranting even more. I actually like Triumph. Zone 2 is what finally got me into this game, but that was just the game getting you accustomed to more complex patterns. Zone 3 is where it puts all your skills to the test and despite being hard, it still manages to be fun. I said in the video that all the levels kind of blend in and I still think that, but as far as interesting level design goes, this is as good as it gets with this game. Next time: an interlude.
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Aug 18, 2015 00:03
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gently caress 3-2's retro stage. If you still think that looked easy, let me tell you that those jumps and hovers have to be nearly pixel perfect. If you're off by a little bit... Well you can see in the video. And it's not just one jump. That stage has several ways to trip you up. None of the other retro stages come close to being as insane as that one. Yeah, Runner's not too good at the whole difficulty curve thing. Yeah the retro challenges were handled terribly. The fact that you can only get another shot at them by
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Aug 18, 2015 01:25
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Resident music and future Grammy nominee here to criticize the musical aspects of this game. While I enjoy the compositions themselves, it's issues lie almost entirely in the arrangement. To expand on what Unpronounceable stated earlier, lot of the pickups and actions in this game are not only offbeat, but off time completely. I noticed this the most in the Zone 2 boss. The fireball sound effects were off time, and then avoiding them was also off time. This is just poor planning. The lack of music in the retro levels is bothersome and leaves me kind of bored when the video gets to those levels, as well, though this is no fault to you, Wugga. Furthermore, the zones themselves don't have enough variance between soundtracks. They are just far too similar. Lastly, my biggest issue. There's very little evidence that the composer (or level designer) understands dynamics (more specifically how arrangement affects dynamics). The aspect of picking up cores to change up the music is a great idea, however I feel it was implemented so poorly. As with other pickups, the placement of the cores is frequently offbeat/off time, and while that's a minor issue with other pickups, having an off time dynamic shift is incredibly jarring. I found the last core itself (Ultra to Extra) to be the most annoying aspect. While having a musical drop off certainly has it's time and place, it's placement tends to be only a few bars from the previous one, again, usually falling offbeat. The worst part, though, is they tend to be waaay too early in the level, losing so much momentum and excitement while the level is still throwing curveballs at you. Am I being too harsh on an indie game? Probably. My problem is they could've done better. The potential is already there. As it is, it feels like quick and sloppy work. It comes so close to working well, and fixing it wouldn't take much more than moving a few pickups around. That said, the game itself is a pretty neat concept, I'm looking forward to the conclusion. Thanks for showing this off, Wugga.
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Aug 18, 2015 07:37
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Dr. Fetus posted:Yeah the retro challenges were handled terribly. The fact that you can only get another shot at them by Runner 2 fixed many of the issues of the first game and is the better game of the two by miles. It still suffers from the same issue of beat created by the obstacles and not the inputs, but at least those are timed correctly. It's also a lot longer, yet I managed to Triple Perfect+ all stages in about the same time it took me to record this LP. It's like the first game was just a testing ground and Runner 2 is the actual end product. K-ParAdoX posted:Resident music Some of the offbeat sections seem to be related to framerate hiccups: if Fraps decides to go from 60fps to 59fps for a small while, it affects the timing of some of the notes. Occasionally the game also seems to adjust the tune if it's offbeat because I've heard a short pause in the soundtrack. So maybe there are flags in place to start the music from a specific point. I'm just guessing here, but it would be a pretty weird solution. If the arrangement resulting from the powerups ticks you off, try the actual soundtrack. The music is way more enjoyable like that.
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Aug 18, 2015 10:09
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Wugga posted:Tenacity is also a lot more pleasing to the eye, which is why I probably didn't get tired of it so quickly. It's probably just my red-green colour blindness, but this entire zone really hurts my eyes. The colours bleed into one another, confuse and tire my eyes, and the flickering fireballs make me nauseous. Runner 2 has also a zone like that, only in red. Gaijin hates me, I think. unpronounceable posted:Even with a bad interface though, I think it fundamentally fails as a rhythm game because it demands the player be off sync with the music and sound cues. Whenever you collect, jump over, slide under, or kick something, it plays a sound cue to make some kind of melody with the background track. The problem is that you can't jump, slide, or kick to that rhythm because if you do, you're already done for. So instead, you play trying to keep the tempo in mind, but needing to deliberately ignore the "intended" timing. The rhythm game aspect of Runner is different from other games, but I still think it fits. I always felt it was a bit like playing the guitar. Most rhythm games expect you to do the picking, but Runner expects you to grab the chords in time. You're always a bit ahead, so the sound doesn't get mangled. And More fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Aug 25, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 11:53
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Apologies for leaving this LP unattended for so long. I've been going through a rough patch, and as a result I haven't had any motivation to open Premiere for a good while now. It sucks that this should happen with just 2 videos left to go, but it's not in me to leave things unfinished. So I'll finish this once I can, hopefully sooner than later.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:25
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Keep the faith, dude. These threads don't slide off into Archive for a while.
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Sep 28, 2015 04:07
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Still keeping the flame burning for this one. I do like that the game gives you an option to go perfect runs only, even if that means endless parades of replaying levels.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:00
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Glazius posted:Still keeping the flame burning for this one. I wish it gave you the option to practice isolated sections of the level. That's what I'd do with a difficult song, too. Playing all the stuff you already know by heart over and over is a bit pointless.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:09
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And More posted:I wish it gave you the option to practice isolated sections of the level. That's what I'd do with a difficult song, too. Playing all the stuff you already know by heart over and over is a bit pointless. But but my old school difficulty!  Yeah, that's a big problem I have with BIT.TRIP RUNNER and Odyssey was pretty much a stopping point for a lot of players due to how long it is and there's no checkpoints for it. Runner 2 has checkpoints, but it lets you jump over them for a score bonus at a risk of having to start the level over if you make a mistake from that point. Which I think is much better than how RUNNER handled things.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:19
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The rumours of my death something something confucius. This is just a little extra video before the final levels. I recorded it way back before my hiatus so I had some difficulty remembering what I missed but what the hell. I wanted to show some stuff off before finishing the game so here's me rambling on about music stuff. If I use some terms wrong then you can tell me what a big idiot I am. I wanted to post this last year, but I was too busy drinking and having fun on new year's eve. Anyway, next video just needs editing and commentary, so my new year's promise for 2016 is to finish this LP before 2017.  (Baldurdash | Youtube | Download)
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Jan 2, 2016 16:31
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