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RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

BrianWilly posted:

Keep in mind, though, that even if we see Mr. Robot on his own, or even other characters responding to things that he says, it could in reality just be Elliot doing and saying those things whilst imagining that another person -- Mr. Robot -- is saying and doing them instead. That's how Fight Club did it, after all.

That whole sequence was part of the hallucinations, or appeared to be.

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HardKase
Jul 15, 2007
TASTY
Yeah he didn't actually got to a heroin den, that was all just his weird as trip.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
I was actually thinking of the moment where Elliot's in bed and the two other hackers are bitchin' and moanin' about it and Mr. Robot -- who's standing right next to Elliot -- shouts at them to leave if they want to, which they do. It doesn't prove Mr. Robot's real, it could just mean that Elliot shouted at them in that persona.

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.
During the "Here's the plan" conversation with everyone, I became convinced that the members of fsociety were just fragments of his personality. Buuut, that doesn't really hold up given Darlene's actual physical existence. Or maybe she's the only other real one?

In conclusion, I'm not sure why I made this:

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Since I'm not sure if posting something from next week's preview counts as a spoiler..

https://youtu.be/fL0UgD-dgTk?t=24 I don't really know how you'd explain Elliot doing the smashing while standing back behind the other characters and this clearly happens because they jump in response, but we shall see.

Back Hack
Jan 17, 2010


I just finished the first episode of this, I while respect the overall production value this show offers and you can seriously can tell someone put a lot of love into making this show what it is; however, the overall story that's been presented is very transparent and it's twists are televises right way, almost obviously so. I haven't read the rest of the posts in this thread yet, but if I had to guess, people have sauced out what the big twists are going to be, so I just throw mine out as well.

Mr Robot isn't real, Gideon is going to die, and Elliot is going to be blackmailed into joining Evil Corp

Dahbadu
Aug 22, 2004

Reddit has helpfully advised me that I look like a "15 year old fortnite boi"
I just got done watching the first two episodes. This show is amazing. It's like a hybrid of a Neal Stephenson and Chuck Palahniuk novel, filmed and directed with some serious artistic chops and loving care.

Dahbadu fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 17, 2015

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Xoidanor posted:

This episode was a complete waste of time. No cinematography in the world is going to save 40 minutes of uneventful and confusing nonsense with breadcrumbs of plot at the beginning and the end. I have no earthly clue what the rest of you in this thread found compelling about this.
The fact of the matter is that the episode felt like crap because the plot took a backseat to character development in the form of an extended dream sequence that lasted 3 times longer than it needed to. Having Hackers on the TV was the best, having the guys punch you in the nose with the jokes about how hacking is so fake in the media was the worst.

Trabant posted:

During the "Here's the plan" conversation with everyone, I became convinced that the members of fsociety were just fragments of his personality. Buuut, that doesn't really hold up given Darlene's actual physical existence. Or maybe she's the only other real one?
I was thinking the exact same thing but Darlene's excursion really killed that. The more they make it obvious that Mr. Robot isn't real, the more I want him to actually be real because it's so stupid having the show go Fight Club mode when the actual point of Tyler Durden's plot was exactly the same as Mr. Robot's: blow up the credit bureaus.

Also the daemon stuff was this episode's "thing the narrative focuses on" and gently caress I really hope they don't overdo that.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Jul 17, 2015

meristem
Oct 2, 2010
I HAVE THE ETIQUETTE OF STIFF AND THE PERSONALITY OF A GIANT CUNT.

DaveKap posted:

I was thinking the exact same thing but Darlene's excursion really killed that. The more they make it obvious that Mr. Robot isn't real, the more I want him to actually be real because it's so stupid having the show go Fight Club mode when the actual point of Tyler Durden's plot was exactly the same as Mr. Robot's: blow up the credit bureaus.
Oh, this reminds me. An acquaintance recently told me to watch "Who am I - kein System ist sicher": http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3042408/ . It's a German 2014 movie that mostly follows the same beats as this thing (a socially maladjusted young adult with a history of mental illness in the family (aha!) joins a hacker group, abuses drugs, has fun until he doesn't). The movie is much worse on the technical side (my favourite bit of dialogue logic: "I used a 0-day exploit" => "You can read machine code?!"), but besides this, it's actually... pretty decent.

quote:

Also the daemon stuff was this episode's "thing the narrative focuses on" and gently caress I really hope they don't overdo that.
You know, we could make a list. I mean, it's not like it's difficult... (Machine) learning processes. Genetic algorithms. Anomaly detection. Clustering. Anything to do with networks. The EM algorithm. And then, junk code... oh god, anything to do with viruses and immune systems, no? Red pills, taint analysis...

Yeah, I hope they don't overdo that, either.

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.
I really loved the first 2 episodes, but 3 and 4 were pretty bad. Now it seems it's just trying to be weird for the sake of it without advancing the plot in any meaningful way. If I want to watch dream sequences I'll watch Lynch, thank you very much. Also the drug addiction subplot is tv cliché as gently caress and it stopped being interesting around 2005, in House MD.

The writing has taken a nosedive. "What's your monster"? Really? With the distorted voice too?

I don't want to be doom and gloom, but when a tv show starts doing weird poo poo like this it's usually the beginning of the end. The same thing happened with Hannibal and his dumb blood drops slow-mo shots, Penny Dreadful with the ridiculously overacted séance, Walking Dead with- heh, it would take me too long to make a list.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
I actually think the show has gotten more promising. The last episode was the least preachy and campy so far if I recall, though I haven't rewatched it yet. Why is everyone so hung up on this whole idea of not advancing the plot? Developing the FSociety members we've met so far would be a nice way to take things slowly and create motivation for future plot. I wouldn't mind if they go into details about the backgrounds of those characters, much like they did for the nutcase at Evil Corp. Speaking of which, that Evil Corp guy is probably the most interesting after Elliot and drat he needs to come back.

ookiimarukochan
Apr 4, 2011
My personal theory is that Mr Robot is real - he's JD from Heathers.

Holyshoot
May 6, 2010

apatheticman posted:

Was bro fish Keith David?

yes

am0kgonzo
Jun 18, 2010
Good ep, good show, this thread on the other hand? Ehh.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

Something for the weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9aaTSn8qX8

Opposing Farce
Apr 1, 2010

Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.
So have we passed the Bechdel test yet?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Yes, technically. Twice in this episode, in fact.

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
I'm getting caught up on this show. Happy "normal" Elliot from Episode 3 is awesome, I just know this a precursor for bad things to happen :-(

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

Love the show. I'm starting to wonder if they're doing a reverse fight club - add more and more clues that Mr Robot isn't real until you're sure that's the case, then in a few episodes - Bam! Real all along.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.

blunt posted:

Love the show. I'm starting to wonder if they're doing a reverse fight club - add more and more clues that Mr Robot isn't real until you're sure that's the case, then in a few episodes - Bam! Real all along.

If it wasn't for the certain odd scene, i think it would be a masterstroke if Mr Robot was doing a sort of physical NLP thing on Eliot. Like tricking Eliot into thinking Mr Robot is a figment of his imagination so that "Mr Robot" can control him.

Rod Hoofhearted
Jun 18, 2000

I am a ghost




What if Christian Slater is real, and Elliot's part of his imagination! :catdrugs:

Dead Snoopy
Mar 23, 2005
This show has lifted so heavily from Fight Club, I'm hoping Mr. Robot IS real.

JainDoh
Nov 5, 2002

Omar strollin'
*crosses fingers* Cmoooon, gaslighting! NSA gaslighting, NSA gaslighting, NSA gaslighting...

Papa needs a new show to watch.

Feenix
Mar 14, 2003
Sorry, guy.
I'm actually enjoying the hell out of the show but there are a LOT of Fight Club similarities. Even the coming into your "professional office" job all beat up and being asked about it by your corporate boss.


Sill 100% on board with it though...

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Hey, so, just so we're all clear... Was the pilot created without the rest of the series already written? Here's why I ask this:

Once upon a time there was a very fantastic pilot for a semi-fantastic series called "Dead Like Me." In the pilot episode, certain rules were set up, inferences to specific information made, and a world built on a few simple ideas. Unfortunately, after the pilot was created and the series greenlit, someone else came in as the primary writing staff and actually blurred the lines on a few hard rules, messed with specific information, and kinda made the whole idea of what was going on behind the scenes of the built world into something that was more of a shrug than a fact. The show died after 2 seasons and I'm actually convinced it's because they did so little to reveal, twist, and cliff-hang more of the interesting ideas of what happens in the afterlife. In other words, the meta-plot barely moved and it couldn't without the rules of the pilot.

Why am I talking about some other show? In the same stroke as I think Dead Like Me died because of a twist on the original intent of the writing, I'm uncertain if the same fate may be bestowed upon Mr. Robot. What I'm primarily focusing on here is the very first thing we're told. "What I'm about to tell you is top secret... There's a powerful group of people out there that are secretly running the world... The top 1% of the top 1%." as it shows us Evilcorp Bateman with his 11 lawyers. It's unreliable narration, sure, but we're immediately led into believing that the 12 people we're seeing are the group of powerful people running the world. As we get the final scene of the pilot, we believe Elliot is about to meet these people. If this pilot was its own production before the show was greenlit, then it isn't until said greenlighting that the second episode is written as a twist; these aren't the most powerful people and their "leader," Bateman, isn't even very powerful himself (as we come to discover in episode 3.)

To be honest, this was in itself a let down. I wanted them to be the group of shadow leaders; like The Cabal from The Blacklist but made apparent early on. Did anyone else actually think or hope that they would be? Was anyone else let down that they weren't?

Feenix
Mar 14, 2003
Sorry, guy.
No. Not to be too frank or sound too snarky, I got what they meant in the pilot but upon reveal never took it to be literal. He claims there is a powerful super-elite. The image is symbolic and is like a narrator flashback (forward for us) of how Elliot envisions this unseen "illuminati". It never once crossed my mind that they went a direction with it and then got a new path because reasons.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012
I BELIEVE IN STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORIES

Gamesguy posted:

I couldn't find it, can you tell me the search terms?

I am also curious. :colbert:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DaveKap posted:

Hey, so, just so we're all clear... Was the pilot created without the rest of the series already written? Here's why I ask this:

Once upon a time there was a very fantastic pilot for a semi-fantastic series called "Dead Like Me." In the pilot episode, certain rules were set up, inferences to specific information made, and a world built on a few simple ideas. Unfortunately, after the pilot was created and the series greenlit, someone else came in as the primary writing staff and actually blurred the lines on a few hard rules, messed with specific information, and kinda made the whole idea of what was going on behind the scenes of the built world into something that was more of a shrug than a fact. The show died after 2 seasons and I'm actually convinced it's because they did so little to reveal, twist, and cliff-hang more of the interesting ideas of what happens in the afterlife. In other words, the meta-plot barely moved and it couldn't without the rules of the pilot.

Why am I talking about some other show? In the same stroke as I think Dead Like Me died because of a twist on the original intent of the writing, I'm uncertain if the same fate may be bestowed upon Mr. Robot. What I'm primarily focusing on here is the very first thing we're told. "What I'm about to tell you is top secret... There's a powerful group of people out there that are secretly running the world... The top 1% of the top 1%." as it shows us Evilcorp Bateman with his 11 lawyers. It's unreliable narration, sure, but we're immediately led into believing that the 12 people we're seeing are the group of powerful people running the world. As we get the final scene of the pilot, we believe Elliot is about to meet these people. If this pilot was its own production before the show was greenlit, then it isn't until said greenlighting that the second episode is written as a twist; these aren't the most powerful people and their "leader," Bateman, isn't even very powerful himself (as we come to discover in episode 3.)

To be honest, this was in itself a let down. I wanted them to be the group of shadow leaders; like The Cabal from The Blacklist but made apparent early on. Did anyone else actually think or hope that they would be? Was anyone else let down that they weren't?
I don't know the specifics of DLM, but didn't Fuller leave after the first season? In effect, you had what I assume was a pretty mythology-laden show but was then run by someone who didn't create it and presumably didn't know what to do with it but had to run with it anyway.

I'm gonna wait and see this, because how this show unfolds is all on whatever the heck Sam Esmail wants to do with it. But because this show is also extremely mythology-laden and serialized, I also have to believe that Sam Esmail at least has a good outline of where the show is supposed to go. Whether or not you like it is for you to decide though, but for a project like this? Probably had way more material than just the pilot. Probably not as fleshed out, but you learn to work with it.

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005

The thing that makes me think they hadn't written anything more, or weren't sure what direction they were taking is that Elliot was kidnapped.

Elliot being kidnapped just to be given a job offer when surrounded by a ton of lawyers... who leave after a couple of minutes anyway... was just really bizarre. It was either a hallucination, or not the direction the story was headed in the first episode.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


meristem posted:

That was OK again. I don't think I understood, in the end, what the MC meant when he was talking about daemons - normally, the analogy would correspond to unconscious cognition, but here, he almost implied that anything that happened independently of him that he did not control was a daemon (for example Angela going against AllSafe?)?
No, she went back to Allsafe because of her daemons. The point was that we're all driven by these subconscious decisions.

Shakugan posted:

The thing that makes me think they hadn't written anything more, or weren't sure what direction they were taking is that Elliot was kidnapped.

Elliot being kidnapped just to be given a job offer when surrounded by a ton of lawyers... who leave after a couple of minutes anyway... was just really bizarre. It was either a hallucination, or not the direction the story was headed in the first episode.
Elliot's paranoid. I don't think he was actually kidnapped, that's just how he interpreted it. In reality, a couple of guys in suits politely asked him to come to a meeting.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005

Tiggum posted:

Elliot's paranoid. I don't think he was actually kidnapped, that's just how he interpreted it. In reality, a couple of guys in suits politely asked him to come to a meeting.

Yeah exactly. CTO guy even explained they picked Elliot up that way because his AllSafe no-compete makes it illegial for E Corp to offer him a job.

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010
I still think it's too early to say that the secret society/rulers stuff has been discarded. We still don't know where Patrick Bateman's loyalties ultimately lie, and there were some things in his episode that could be a part of a bigger picture involving the secret org.

Trabant
Nov 26, 2011

All systems nominal.
Re: writing:

There's a grantland.com podcast (?) that in part talks about the show. One thing they mention (starting in the 32nd minute) is that it originally started as a movie script, but that Esmail kept writing and writing to the point where it became too long for a feature movie. When they went around to shop it for TV instead, it was pointed out that -- since this was originally a film and therefore had a fixed ending -- stretching it into a TV show could get you in trouble, because it means he'd have to write the show to that fixed ending. Apparently Esmail wasn't interested in changing his approach and is sticking with the original plan.

Where they got this information, I don't know. But it does suggest that (a) the creator knows where he's going with it, and (b) he has enough control to make it happen.

Personally, I don't know how a plot like this can be extended beyond one season. It just seems like a perfect miniseries-style story. So unless there's a reboot (sorry) after each season... I don't know. Guess I'll just enjoy it until then.

hallebarrysoetoro
Jun 14, 2003
I think the best part of this show is that there's absolutely no chance of it being mediocre. It's either going to go on to being an awesome show or a complete trainwreck like Dexter, no middle ground for this ride :getin:

Ape Gone Insane
Dec 10, 2010

Trabant posted:

Re: writing:

There's a grantland.com podcast (?) that in part talks about the show. One thing they mention (starting in the 32nd minute) is that it originally started as a movie script, but that Esmail kept writing and writing to the point where it became too long for a feature movie. When they went around to shop it for TV instead, it was pointed out that -- since this was originally a film and therefore had a fixed ending -- stretching it into a TV show could get you in trouble, because it means he'd have to write the show to that fixed ending. Apparently Esmail wasn't interested in changing his approach and is sticking with the original plan.

Where they got this information, I don't know. But it does suggest that (a) the creator knows where he's going with it, and (b) he has enough control to make it happen.

Personally, I don't know how a plot like this can be extended beyond one season. It just seems like a perfect miniseries-style story. So unless there's a reboot (sorry) after each season... I don't know. Guess I'll just enjoy it until then.

He also just tweeted this:

@antipopculture I have an ending and it's about 4 or 5 seasons away.

https://twitter.com/samthemovie/status/622503766940475393

Holyshoot
May 6, 2010

Trabant posted:

Re: writing:

There's a grantland.com podcast (?) that in part talks about the show. One thing they mention (starting in the 32nd minute) is that it originally started as a movie script, but that Esmail kept writing and writing to the point where it became too long for a feature movie. When they went around to shop it for TV instead, it was pointed out that -- since this was originally a film and therefore had a fixed ending -- stretching it into a TV show could get you in trouble, because it means he'd have to write the show to that fixed ending. Apparently Esmail wasn't interested in changing his approach and is sticking with the original plan.

Where they got this information, I don't know. But it does suggest that (a) the creator knows where he's going with it, and (b) he has enough control to make it happen.

Personally, I don't know how a plot like this can be extended beyond one season. It just seems like a perfect miniseries-style story. So unless there's a reboot (sorry) after each season... I don't know. Guess I'll just enjoy it until then.

Didn't breaking bad know its ending? Worked for them.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.



Sober posted:

I don't know the specifics of DLM, but didn't Fuller leave after the first season? In effect, you had what I assume was a pretty mythology-laden show but was then run by someone who didn't create it and presumably didn't know what to do with it but had to run with it anyway.
The only reason I know what I said about DLM is because the DVD of the show's pilot episode has commentary specifically stating that one person had a vision in the pilot and that person didn't work on the show past the pilot and that was why certain "rules" that were set up got broken later on. Whoever was commentating was basically lamenting this situation as a bad thing, thus the correlation I'm making.

That said, the other chatter about Esmail knowing where the show is going and having an ending drawn up for ~5 seasons down the line is a great thing considering how well that worked for Breaking Bad and, to a lesser extent (primarily because I don't know how far ahead of time they planned it,) The Shield. Watching the "Conversation with Mr. Robot" video seems to indicate that the pilot was shot with a different crew as a separate piece but the folks they brought in for the season are doing a fine job of producing as closely to the pilot as they can. Primarily I'm referring to the director.

So yeah, I'm not doom and gloom about the show, I'm still looking forward to all of it. Just drop the weird per-episode narrative focuses and move the A-plot along a bit faster (or make the B-plot a bit more important to the A-plot) and it'll be difficult to fail.

DaveKap fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jul 19, 2015

Kawabata
Apr 20, 2014

You plebians just don't know what epic literature is. You should try reading Stephanie Meyer, E.L. James, Dan Brown, or Ayn Rand.

Ape Gone Insane posted:

He also just tweeted this:

@antipopculture I have an ending and it's about 4 or 5 seasons away.

https://twitter.com/samthemovie/status/622503766940475393

Yeah it's cool that he tweets that but we're at episode 4 and they are already trying to change the world. Which does not bode well for the upcoming 3 (?) seasons, because they either stretch the story to infinity or they find a new, more important plot than saving the world. Why didn't they keep the fsociety reveal for the end of the season? Way too much stuff has happened already.

Also yes, no doom and gloom but the last episode really looked like it was written in a hurry. A hallucinogenic dream filler with random lesbian kisses doesn't make for great television.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Trabant posted:

Re: writing:

There's a grantland.com podcast (?) that in part talks about the show. One thing they mention (starting in the 32nd minute) is that it originally started as a movie script, but that Esmail kept writing and writing to the point where it became too long for a feature movie. When they went around to shop it for TV instead, it was pointed out that -- since this was originally a film and therefore had a fixed ending -- stretching it into a TV show could get you in trouble, because it means he'd have to write the show to that fixed ending. Apparently Esmail wasn't interested in changing his approach and is sticking with the original plan.

Where they got this information, I don't know. But it does suggest that (a) the creator knows where he's going with it, and (b) he has enough control to make it happen.

Personally, I don't know how a plot like this can be extended beyond one season. It just seems like a perfect miniseries-style story. So unless there's a reboot (sorry) after each season... I don't know. Guess I'll just enjoy it until then.
Yeah from my impression it might've been miniseries stuff, but okay, good for him if he thinks he has 4 seasons (40-52 episodes) worth of material to stretch out to. Obviously you can tell when the show is being a TV show but I think that's okay if Esmail is okay with it being like that. But again, any elaborate plan will not survive with the realities of production but hey, fortunately he's got a writers' room to help him with it.

Holyshoot posted:

Didn't breaking bad know its ending? Worked for them.
Well, BB was an anti-hero show, so the known trajectory is very simple. Anything beyond that, maybe a vague plan will work but all your specifics will fall apart. Even Breaking Bad was known to go off the reservation. I mean, Aaron Paul's character was supposed to die in season one but look where that went, for instance.

I'm sure Esmail has a good idea of where his principal characters will reach by the series' end (beyond Elliot, not sure who else would be on the list IMO), but anything more than that? For instance if we're all right and it is a Durdening I don't see Mr. Robot/Slater staying on past season 1 as a regular for instance unless he wants to do the "4 or 5 seasons takes place over a year" dealio.

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GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Unless he realizes he needs slater to survive and they team up in his head.

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