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100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




You're good. I must've misread that.

What I said means that though you are not behaving in a scummy way I could read posts that seem to indicate you were linked to scum since they were either defending you or you doing the same for them (turns out that's not the case). Doesn't really matter because I wouldn't have voted you that day nor would I vote you today. You're way too sincere in your posting to be scum I find.

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fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
Out of zzyzx and wins, I think wins is scummier.

On D1 he mentions Walrus, in this post. He seems to be critical of Walrus, but he never mentions him again, never votes him (and has no vote down at day end).

wins32767 posted:

This vote is lazy reasoning. My vote was gut. There is a difference.

Then on D2 he comes into the thread and tries to make himself look good for the Walrus lynch.

wins32767 posted:

I can buy that level of skill from merk. Walrus twigged my gut a bit too, but it was just a hunch.

A lot of his posts dont express opinions on players or contribute to scum hunting, examples

wins32767 posted:

I like the effort here, but I don't like the reasoning. It doesn't tell a cohesive story of why Quid is scum, it's listing some stuff Quid did viewed through a suspicious lens.

wins32767 posted:

How is that different from normal zzyzx play?

And his case on Punt could apply to himself.

wins32767 posted:

So, my current thinking is that there are 3 killing roles so I'd wager the scum team is probably pretty small at this point. With two of their members already dead, they're likely to be really demoralized and lurking or frustrated. Based on punt's posts today, he's a pretty good candidate using those criteria.

##vote punt

##vote wins

Max
Nov 30, 2002

Quinquereme posted:

Oh man I'm bad at logic puzzles. It took me a good 15 mins to work out why this makes sense. :downsgun:

f_v said earlier that this is all assuming Ecco has used the normal 5 roles - is this pretty much guaranteed?

I really don't know what to think about this. Like 100 I will vote someone (but how come the votes are on zzyzx and not fv/spoonsy/wwm/wins/gamer?) so the smart people can do more logic stuff, but I'm going to keep my vote on Amoeba because I'm more comfortable with reading tones than logic puzzles. And with my prev. suspicions on f_v I would like to vote for her the most out of the cop group.

That the mason group is a glorified dethy is still an assumption, but looking at a mason group that claims 5 cops, that is the very first thing that I jump to, especially given some of the results. I imagine it's something that wouldn't have come out as fast since cops in the mason group would have been a little shy about revealing that they are cops, much less who they investigate.

We could pick one of the cop groups instead, but if we take gamer's claim as truth (I believe it given the push on him day 1) that narrows the result group down to 2 players there, which is better to pick from than a group of 3, and will also help possibly narrow down the cop group. It's possible WWM is actually the one lying but but given their results, they aren't the insane cop and it looks like whomever the insane cop is nailed scum in their night 1 investigation, so I think it's better to put the vote there today.

I would also vote wins if people are more comfortable with that today. I had found him kinda town for backing off me day 1 and just calling my play stubborn town. That didn't seem like something scum would have done in that situation, but it's possible they had decided to move on to gamer at that point as well.

I would also be wary of people and how they approach all this, because it would be very, very easy to hide behind figuring this out since the results of it are based on logic and deduction (like what I've done so far!)

Max
Nov 30, 2002

FV, have you been more active in the mason doc? I know you had stuff going on but the fact that you have a grand total of zero helpful posts day 1 makes me really uncomfortable reading your opinions.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
Looking at zzyzx he put a vote down on Walrus when he could have voted Gamer instead. Given QPQ's posting around Gamer (and his now confirmed town claim) I think a scum player in this situation would be far more likely to vote Gamer.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Max posted:

FV, have you been more active in the mason doc? I know you had stuff going on but the fact that you have a grand total of zero helpful posts day 1 makes me really uncomfortable reading your opinions.

I posted a little in the doc D1. I've posted more in the doc than in the game I think.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

This is going back to Punt's flip and something Gamer said last real life night: Usually in a dethy scenario you will not find out what kind of cop someone is when they flip, so I would not take punt flipping as just a cop as indicative as sane as gospel. This is, again, all assuming Ecco did a direct copy of a dethy game into the setup and hasn't changed anything about it. I think that is the case though because it's not something that would have been discovered quite so early in most cases.

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.
Gave it some thought, ##vote wins

You've lacked any sort of effort at all this game and have been coasting along without offering any sort of opinion on who you think is even scummy. And what prompted you to rolefish in Amoeba? Not defending Amoeba here, she also hasn't had a decent case all game, but she's at least been active and asking questions.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


While I hate to interrupt dethy chat, Max you just zoomed on by this post and didn't drop an answer off so I'd like this to at least be acknowledged

chaoslord posted:

To make sure I'm not missing anything, your case on Quidnose is QPQ's light defense of him in response to Quinquereme's vote and then Quidnose failing to read the flips right, correct? While I think the former is a (possible) point, I don't think misreading flips is a scumtell. Or, if it is, it's a strange one because Quidnose didn't have to make it public that he missed it.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Quinquereme posted:

Excuse my ignorance again - is it extremely unlikely for two scum to claim this together? Everyone has accepted this claim as real but I don't really know why two scum couldn't be doing this together?

It's possible but "extremely unlikely" describes it exactly. Especially in a game with multiple nightkills and with scum down people. If one of them were to flip something other than confirmed town mason, we know the other is telling a lie and that sinks them, too. It's a brave play if they're not telling the truth. With how hard QPQ was pushing gamer I think it's clear gamer is town and I don't see why town would lie about being in a confirmed masonry.

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Max posted:

I would also vote wins if people are more comfortable with that today. I had found him kinda town for backing off me day 1 and just calling my play stubborn town. That didn't seem like something scum would have done in that situation, but it's possible they had decided to move on to gamer at that point as well.

I would also be wary of people and how they approach all this, because it would be very, very easy to hide behind figuring this out since the results of it are based on logic and deduction (like what I've done so far!)

I'm worried about people just hiding behind logic, too. Could you elaborate on why you went with zzyxx? You say that you are wary of folks who are just hiding behind the "logic" aspect, but you never explain your vote past "more likely".

Spoonsy, what about you? Would you like to back up your vote with anything other than logic?

Gamer and Nth, yall did the same thing so if yall want to add more to your vote feel free, but I'm less interested since I believe the confirmed mason claim

chaoslord
Jan 28, 2009

Nature Abhors A Vacuum


Someone (likely WWM since they called me out or Max since I'm posting at him) will probably come through and ask who I think is scum between zzyzx and wins and the answer is "I don't have a strong thought." Got a slight gut read but I need to investigate it more. Personally, I'd still rather vote Spoonsy, but accepting that this looks, smells, and quacks like a dethy, I need to take a read of their posts in context rather than just the post history. I've got to get around for church now though so I'll be in and out on the phone til mid-afternoon. Oh, also, still interested in why wins was asking about Amoeba.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

merk posted:

code:
	Night 1	        Night 2
fv	zzyzx - TOWN	NO CLAIM YET			
merk	FV - SCUM       RB			
spoonsy	gamer - TOWN	RB			
punt	wins - TOWN     Dead			
WWM	squiggly - TOWN	FV - TOWN			

Here's how I would work through the puzzle, assuming it was a dethy setup:

FV is not insane or paranoid;
merk is not naive;
Spoonsy is not paranoid;
Punt is not paranoid;
WWM is not insane or paranoid.

merk is paranoid. If I believe gamer and believe that Spoonsy's result is correct (and I do), Punt has to be insane, and wins must be scum.

Disregarding FV's result: merk must be paranoid, spoonsy and WWM must be sane/naive, punt must be insane.

Disregarding merk's result: Doesn't work without an additional scum in the five*.

Disregarding Spoonsy's result: merk is paranoid, FV and WWM are sane/naive, Punt is insane.

Punt is town.

Disregarding WWM's result, merk is paranoid, FV and Spoonsy are sane/naive, Punt is insane.

I'm working with an additional assumption from y'all, which is that I'm town; but if I make that assumption, and assume that Gamer is town, wins has to be scum. In the event that I flip, this should all still be useful for the following day.

The fundamental problem, though, is that there's no guarantee that it's a dethy setup. Nobody runs dethy setups because nobody likes them; there could be two naive cops and two paranoid cops and one scum. There could be multiple scum in the bunch, if Quid's flips indicates a recruiting cult (the * above). There could be roles that are investigation immune, or roles that screw with night actions. There could be a dozen different reasons the logic table doesn't hold.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

Honestly I'd still rather vote Spoonsy for scummy behavior and leave cop speculation for later when there are more night actions.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
Punt died. He flipped vanilla cop. QED, it isn't wins as he got a townie result. I claimed townie and I'd like to say I've proven myself, as said. So in an argument of "scum has to be Wins, Gamer or Zz" then Wins and I are town, so-ooo.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

zzyzx posted:

Honestly I'd still rather vote Spoonsy for scummy behavior and leave cop speculation for later when there are more night actions.

That's where I am right now too.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

Gamerofthegame posted:

Punt died. He flipped vanilla cop. QED, it isn't wins as he got a townie result. I claimed townie and I'd like to say I've proven myself, as said. So in an argument of "scum has to be Wins, Gamer or Zz" then Wins and I are town, so-ooo.

Cops generally don't flip with their sanity included, in my experience.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

For the sake of argument, assume that punt's flip confirms him as a sane cop, and assume a dethy.

merk posted:

code:
	Night 1	        Night 2
fv	zzyzx - TOWN	NO CLAIM YET			
merk	FV - SCUM       RB			
spoonsy	gamer - TOWN	RB			
punt	wins - TOWN     Dead			
WWM	squiggly - TOWN	FV - TOWN			

Punt is sane, merk is paranoid, and if/once I flip town, neither FV nor WWM can be insane. Spoonsy must be insane, and gamer and Nth must both be lying scum.

If I thought this were the case, I'd encourage you all to lynch me immediately.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
Given the context I don't exactly take you at face value.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

If you come up with a problem in the logic, feel free to share.

##vote Spoonsy. wins isn't going anywhere.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


zzyzx posted:

Spoonsy must be insane, and gamer and Nth must both be lying scum.

Honest, guys, half the people voting for me are scum.

zzyzx
Mar 2, 2004

You're not paying attention. If it's a regular dethy, I think Punt has to be insane and wins has to be scum; but there are lots of reasons that it might not be a simple logic puzzle, and so it makes more sense to wait on that and vote for the person I think has been scummier (Spoonsy). You don't just throw up your hands and stop playing because somebody roleclaims.

Gamer responds that punt's flip proves Punt is a sane cop, but probably not. One, that's not the way it usually works; and two, Punt can't be the sane cop, in a standard dethy, without both of you being scum.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

It really doesn't prove he's the sane cop at all, correct.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


zzyzx posted:

Punt can't be the sane cop, in a standard dethy, without both of you being scum.

Alright, I understand that a little better now.
##unvote

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Assuming that this is a standard dethy is dangerous. If we get more flips and investigation results that lead us down that path, great, but there's a lot of leaping going on here with only one night of investigation results.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
Zzy's logic assumes he's town, which naturally he would argue. It's a pretty light scare tactic. "WELL. WHEN I FLIP TOWN THAT MEANS YOU MUST BE THE SCUM, SO HA!"

Spoonsy
Dec 6, 2005

Yeah, life is hilariously cruel.
Grimey Drawer
Also if it was standard dethy, there wouldn't be five of us. Standard's 4, right?

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact
Fifth is theorized to be scum.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Gamerofthegame posted:

Zzy's logic assumes he's town, which naturally he would argue. It's a pretty light scare tactic. "WELL. WHEN I FLIP TOWN THAT MEANS YOU MUST BE THE SCUM, SO HA!"

I get that. I cast my vote without doing too much independent thinking. I unvoted to give myself some space to weigh evidence on my own. If and when I do come to a conclusion, I'll post my reasoning inthread.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

Spoonsy posted:

Also if it was standard dethy, there wouldn't be five of us. Standard's 4, right?

Standard is 4 town cops and one scum who fakes investigations.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now
v:)v

Thank you all for posting so much even on a weekend! I will be sending prods to players who have not met my postcount by Monday evening, these are just light prods nothing serious, don't feel too stressed, and most of you are well over (or really, really close).

:d: Deadline is still Tuesday remember!


e: I made lady clarent in ckII!!!

EccoRaven fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 19, 2015

Iron Chef Ramen
Sep 15, 2007

HA HA! YOU HAVE CHOSEN POORLY!
Wow, dude, her liege straight up wants her to die.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Iron Chef Ramen posted:

Wow, dude, her liege straight up wants her to die.

Scum spotted.
##vote King SoandSo

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now

Iron Chef Ramen posted:

Wow, dude, her liege straight up wants her to die.

they had a disagreement about the nature of monogamy...

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
wait we're french

gently caress this

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.

The Ninth Layer posted:

I seriously cannot tell if we are still in joke phase or not.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Quinquereme posted:

Amoeba's back and forth with Squiggly felt genuine to me but I didn't like this:


quote:

I don't see how.



Amoeba seems far too reluctant to vote Squiggly. If he is town, and committed to lynching Squiggly, why not vote him? He seems way too conscious about what people will think of his vote. It makes me think he is overly cautious because he doesn't want to be accused of pushing people to vote a town.


After thinking about it a bit, I'm more suspicious of Amoeba but still very suspicious of f_v too.

##vote Amoeba

I don't know where you're getting reluctance from. It's more like no willing to play to someone elses standards. Would you have said it was reluctance if Squiggly wasn't badgering me?
My posting should have made it clear enough I was committed. Why vote when there is no urgency? My arguments are what would be pushing the execution, not a single vote. You're thinking of it backwards - pushing an execution is all about using reasoning to convince others not the placing of a vote.

Spoonsy
Dec 6, 2005

Yeah, life is hilariously cruel.
Grimey Drawer

Gamerofthegame posted:

wait we're french

gently caress this

GODDAMIT

Okay so without suddenly freaking out too much, the fact that we're French means there's some even deeper level of fuckery because gently caress Ecco games involving France

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now
technically we're part of the province of Vercy under the Queendom of Mereaux which is only loosely inspired by the real-world France; also in the game Clarent is occitan not french u racists, the genocide of the occitan culture after the french revolution is a tumor on french history

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Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.

EccoRaven posted:

technically we're part of the province of Vercy under the Queendom of Mereaux which is only loosely inspired by the real-world France; also in the game Clarent is occitan not french u racists, the genocide of the occitan culture after the french revolution is a tumor on french history


Spoonsy posted:

GODDAMIT

Okay so without suddenly freaking out too much, the fact that we're French means there's some even deeper level of fuckery because gently caress Ecco games involving France

oh jesus how so

scumbag

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