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Spoonsy
Dec 6, 2005

Yeah, life is hilariously cruel.
Grimey Drawer

Gamerofthegame posted:

oh jesus how so

scumbag

Ecco likes to put weird mechanisms on games involving France. I'm not positive how many games Ecco has run involving France but there have been many. And now we're sitting here in one of them.

Joy.

and TIL w Occitan culture

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Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Are you acting serious or hamming it up?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Spoonsy posted:

I'm more tempted to believe zz is scum than wins based on this logic (and no, it's not just because it's showing me to not be insane)

With that in mind, ##vote zzyzx

Spoonsy, why zzyzx over wins? Based on the sanity logic it is equally one of them. What about zzyzx's play makes you think it's him over wins?

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


EccoRaven posted:

technically we're part of the province of Vercy under the Queendom of Mereaux which is only loosely inspired by the real-world France; also in the game Clarent is occitan not french u racists, the genocide of the occitan culture after the french revolution is a tumor on french history

Whomever she is, we need to get :ese: on that kid tout suite. An heir not of your dynasty? Never!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now

Nth Doctor posted:

Whomever she is, we need to get :ese: on that kid tout suite. An heir not of your dynasty? Never!

I took care of it don't worry! (my character married the king of aquitaine and started an affair with an Italian in the court [named Robert!]; the kid is a bastard born with Robert without the King's knowledge, but by the second child the affair became public knowledge. The King then divorced Clarent for adultery [I did "play <userid>" on the king and did it myself] and declared all Clarent's children as illegitimate [I messed with the game files to have them be bastards but under Clarent and Robert's care since afaik there isn't a mechanic for it in-game]. Clarent then married Robert freely and had five more beautiful children. She just abdicated the throne so Bethany, the eldest daughter [aka "the kid"], could take charge [abdication mod + I wanted to actually play as Bethany before she became an old woman]. Clarent is now retired, living as a nun in quiet solitude in order to repent for her youthful adultery and so that she may some day see Robert again in the next life. So good work town it's canon that you win!!)

OKAY GET BACK TO MAFIALAND.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

Spoonsy posted:

Ecco likes to put weird mechanisms on games involving France. I'm not positive how many games Ecco has run involving France but there have been many. And now we're sitting here in one of them.

Joy.

and TIL w Occitan culture

I was scum in a previous France game, and can attest to this. We had the weirdest mechanics for our group, and some polish time traveler was specifically trying to kill me.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Hello what a great weekend I had and what a great time I had catching up on this thread.

Actually I am a little sad I missed the dethy chat. I guess we can't really ASSUME it's a dethy but it does seem fair.

I agree with anyone who said three roleblocks is really weird, but it sounds like Amoeba so then it's just 2, right? That seems more believable.

Now that I know spoonsy was in a masonry and most of his mason buddies don't seem to think he's scummy I feel better about him.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Spoonsy, why zzyzx over wins? Based on the sanity logic it is equally one of them. What about zzyzx's play makes you think it's him over wins?

A fair question. I think zzyzx is pretty suspicious for reasons I mentioned yesterday and he's been pretty quiet about actual scum other than pushing for spoonsy, but wins has been very low-key this game and so far his only post today is:

wins32767 posted:

Amoeba, please claim.

and then nothing. He needs to come back and talk more.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Hal Incandenza posted:

Hello what a great weekend I had and what a great time I had catching up on this thread.

Actually I am a little sad I missed the dethy chat. I guess we can't really ASSUME it's a dethy but it does seem fair.

I agree with anyone who said three roleblocks is really weird, but it sounds like Amoeba so then it's just 2, right? That seems more believable.

Now that I know spoonsy was in a masonry and most of his mason buddies don't seem to think he's scummy I feel better about him.

I can't parse what you are saying.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Amoeba102 posted:

I can't parse what you are saying.

Oh sorry let me try again.

I had a good weekend in real life and I liked reading this thread when I came back,

I like cracking setup spec so I wish I had been around when that was in full swing. There isn't enough evidence to say it is definitely a dethy setup in that masonry but that feels like it could be right.

When I was reading along there was some talk about three roleblocks, but then I got the idea that you know you absorbed a kill and that accounts for one of the roleblocks, but maybe I read that wrong?

I don't feel that spoonsy is as scummy as I did earlier in the game because now I know that he was also talking in a masonry and most of those people don't think he's too scummy (except zzyzx) and also the stuff he's posted in the thread today doesn't feel like scum.

That was about it, really I didn't say much of anything. Is that more parseable?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
Amoeba says he was a target for a kill but it missed and also there were 3 cops in the masonry roleblocked.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Hal Incandenza posted:

When I was reading along there was some talk about three roleblocks, but then I got the idea that you know you absorbed a kill and that accounts for one of the roleblocks, but maybe I read that wrong?


Yeah, this explains the line I had trouble getting.

Me absorbing a kill doesn't really connect with 3 of the cops getting roleblocked.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Amoeba102 posted:

Yeah, this explains the line I had trouble getting.

Me absorbing a kill doesn't really connect with 3 of the cops getting roleblocked.

Yeah I just went back and looked again, so yeah, 3 cops being roleblocked is hard to believe.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Would 2 roleblocks be more believable? Considering that no one has come in sheepishly "sorry guys, yeah that was me on so and so, town roleblocker here", it's safe to assume any blocks were from anti-town sources. Two anti-town roleblockers seems just as unreasonable to me as three anti-town roleblockers.

Has everyone said who they targeted?

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Amoeba102 posted:

Would 2 roleblocks be more believable? Considering that no one has come in sheepishly "sorry guys, yeah that was me on so and so, town roleblocker here", it's safe to assume any blocks were from anti-town sources. Two anti-town roleblockers seems just as unreasonable to me as three anti-town roleblockers.

Has everyone said who they targeted?

I don't think a town roleblocker would necessarily claim here but I get your point. Two is still more likely than 3, and three that all target cops is extra hard to believe because even if scum know who is in the cop masonry I doubt they would have the ability to roleblock three of them. I mean anything is possible but that just seems to stretch credulity too far so my tendency is to think at least one is lying.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Thinking maybe a target wasn't targetable, ala a Jailer/Hider/Commuter.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I was roleblocked as well

Ah this was the post I missed the first time and hence my confusion. Everyone was quoting the one where you hadn't posted your result yet.

Maybe what's strange is that WWM got a result back at all.

Eh this will get me nowhere, going to stop thinking about it.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Amoeba102 posted:

Thinking maybe a target wasn't targetable, ala a Jailer/Hider/Commuter.

Yeah that's a good point too. Too many variables.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Maybe a cop enabler got roleblocked, you think?

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Hello what a great weekend I had and what a great time I had catching up on this thread.

Actually I am a little sad I missed the dethy chat. I guess we can't really ASSUME it's a dethy but it does seem fair.

I agree with anyone who said three roleblocks is really weird, but it sounds like Amoeba so then it's just 2, right? That seems more believable.

Now that I know spoonsy was in a masonry and most of his mason buddies don't seem to think he's scummy I feel better about him.

Amoeba claimed to have stopped a nk, nothing to do with a rb (if I understand her incredibly obtuse softclaim).

Also if you were reading along as opposed to skimming, you would know we *don't* trust Spoonsy, and that's why we claimed the masonry in the first place.

I have to say, I've never been in a dethy game before, and I don't know if there's a standard approach. I'm still doing what I know, which is to hunt scum. If I understand it correctly, we need to clear up our sanities before we can proceed. If that means that this game has turned into a logic puzzle of which of these things doesn't belong, then that means our attention has to shift to one of our investigation targets. There is no sense in killing cops today when we don't even know if their results are accurate or not. Even though I don't trust Spoonsy, I am not going to vote him today. My vote is for wins. He has been - let's just call it what it is - nonparticipatory. Sure, he's been posting, but what is in his history? A joke vote, a throwaway case on Punt, and a whole bunch of white noise. He's the mafia equivalent of beige this game, and so if I can lynch the person I think is scummiest this game AND also get a handle on if I am the naive cop or a straight cop, that's going to not only clarify my sanity, it's also going to (hopefully) vindicate fiery. Remember, merk got scum on fiery and I got town. If wins flips scum, we'll know Punt was the naive cop.

It's the right move for today.

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.
Oh good I missed posts while writing my novella.

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.

Hal Incandenza posted:

Ah this was the post I missed the first time and hence my confusion. Everyone was quoting the one where you hadn't posted your result yet.

Maybe what's strange is that WWM got a result back at all.

Eh this will get me nowhere, going to stop thinking about it.

I think I told merk or put in the doc that it smelled like a trap, like one of Spoonsy or fiery was faking it, that's why I asked for rb flavor. I've been phone posting, and my phone does not like spreadsheets.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


This is all off the hip supposition, but what was the traffic in your masondoc like on Day 2?
I transcribed and updated the Merkpost with fv's night 2 result:
pre:
Player  Night 1 target  Night 1 result  Night 2 Target  Night 2 result
fv      zzyzx           town            ?               blocked
merk    fv              scum            ?               blocked
spoonsy gamer           town            ?               blocked
punt    wins            town            ?               killed night 2
WWM     squiggly        town            fv              town
I think that there's consensus about the number of blocks hitting the servant group being suspicious last night, but something that I find extremely interesting is that WWM investigated squiggly on night 1 and got a townie result.
We know now that that result is in-line with squiggly's actual alignment.

Was previously unseen evidence presented in the mason doc to support merk voting for squiggly 15 minutes after the day started?

How about by the time merk made this post?

I'm inclined to believe spoonsy is not scum based on the supposed investigation of gamer on night 1. I'm also leaning toward disbelieving at least one of the blocks on night 2.

We already have a possible reason to doubt merk's results based on sanity. Is it too far a jump to doubt merk's results based on alignment?

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Nth Doctor posted:

I'm inclined to believe spoonsy is not scum based on the supposed investigation of gamer on night 1. I'm also leaning toward disbelieving at least one of the blocks on night 2.


Can you explain this? Is it the result or the choice of target that makes you say that?

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Amoeba102 posted:

Can you explain this? Is it the result or the choice of target that makes you say that?

The result of Spoonsy's investigation of gamer.

Gamerofthegame posted:

Well, if we're doing this then Nth and I are twins. We know that we're both town and we have a mason doc together, which is why I haven't been jumping on his sometimes suspect posts and we both called each other town in the fake lie detector thing. Trying to get him to :justpost:.

Nth Doctor posted:

Confirming mason with Gamer.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

And a scum couldn't just lie about having an investigation, knowing who is on their team?

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Amoeba102 posted:

And a scum couldn't just lie about having an investigation, knowing who is on their team?

Scum certainly can lie, and would be able to fake investigations accurately.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Yeah, so why would you make the leap that Spoonsy is not scum because he said Gamer was town?

Also, stop worrying about merk. With that many cops, one has to be paranoid - all results return as scum - and that HAS to be merk. So merk has to be town.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Amoeba102 posted:

With that many cops, one has to be paranoid - all results return as scum - and that HAS to be merk. So merk has to be town.

If we take this for granted, then yes you're right: merk was the only scumfinder on night one. If there is a paranoid cop, Merk would be it.

Spoonsy
Dec 6, 2005

Yeah, life is hilariously cruel.
Grimey Drawer

Amoeba102 posted:

Yeah, so why would you make the leap that Spoonsy is not scum because he said Gamer was town?

Also, stop worrying about merk. With that many cops, one has to be paranoid - all results return as scum - and that HAS to be merk. So merk has to be town.

I am super inclined to believe that merk is town for this reason. Just like I'm inclined to believe Nth and Gamer are town due to my result.

As for why I feel zz over why, I don't have a specific reason. As I posed in the doc, we can always do both if zz flips town. I just feel zz's the better one to go first.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Amoeba102 posted:

One of:

FV, Spoonsy, WWM is scum.
Zzyzx, wins, Gamer is scum.

Nth said they are masons but hasn't said they are confirmed town yet. If they are, then you get the idea.

Gut calls: wins more likely scum than zzyzx. Zzyzx's posting doesn't look bad to me and he looks to have put in genuine effort. Wins has really seemed to do much other than comment. Still want to see why he asked me to claim.
WWM looks like he's thinking about the game, but their summary dump on D1. I don't like Spoonsy going all woe is me over the game being set in France with the ~werid poo poo~ speculation. FV seems fine.

Of FV, Spoonsy, WWM I'd say: WWM>Spoonsy>FV.
zzyzx,wins :wins>zzyzx.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Amoeba102 posted:

Gut calls: wins more likely scum than zzyzx. Zzyzx's posting doesn't look bad to me and he looks to have put in genuine effort. Wins hasn't really seemed to do much other than comment. Still want to see why he asked me to claim.
WWM looks like he's thinking about the game, but their summary dump on D1. I don't like Spoonsy going all woe is me over the game being set in France with the ~werid poo poo~ speculation. FV seems fine.

Of FV, Spoonsy, WWM I'd say: WWM>Spoonsy>FV.
zzyzx,wins :wins>zzyzx.

Edit.

Hal Incandenza
Feb 12, 2004

Amoeba102 posted:

Gut calls: wins more likely scum than zzyzx. Zzyzx's posting doesn't look bad to me and he looks to have put in genuine effort. Wins has really seemed to do much other than comment. Still want to see why he asked me to claim.
WWM looks like he's thinking about the game, but their summary dump on D1. I don't like Spoonsy going all woe is me over the game being set in France with the ~werid poo poo~ speculation. FV seems fine.

Of FV, Spoonsy, WWM I'd say: WWM>Spoonsy>FV.
zzyzx,wins :wins>zzyzx.

I'm pretty much on the same page as you. WWM has been giving me a scummy vibe and his opinions don't seem consistent. I disagree with you about Spoonsy though, the woe is me stuff is kind of what made me think he was more likely to be town. I don't see scum acting like that.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

I felt like he was playing it up, but he didn't respond to my question. It's a little thing that makes me think he's less towny than FV, but still well more towny than WWM.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Spoonsy posted:

As for why I feel zz over why, I don't have a specific reason. As I posed in the doc, we can always do both if zz flips town. I just feel zz's the better one to go first.

You don't have a specific reason, but zz is the better one to go with first?

What is your opinion on wins, outside of any cop related theories?

WHICH WAY MADNESS
Apr 28, 2009

You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know.
You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM.
Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what's fresh. Today.

Hal Incandenza posted:

I'm pretty much on the same page as you. WWM has been giving me a scummy vibe and his opinions don't seem consistent. I disagree with you about Spoonsy though, the woe is me stuff is kind of what made me think he was more likely to be town. I don't see scum acting like that.

First time you've even mentioned me all game.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
cuz you've done so much

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
Play nice kids.

Max
Nov 30, 2002

Shower Thoughts (unless this was already thought of): Wins coming in to the thread and asking Ameoba to claim the night that they dodged a night kill makes me think Wins was responsible for said night kill that didn't happen for whatever reason.

The only thing that makes me hesitate about voting for Wins if that is the case is that I can't tell if the mauled to death or fire death would be more likely to be a vig (since I feel like one of the kills is the result of an eager town vig.)

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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Hal Incandenza posted:

I disagree with you about Spoonsy though, the woe is me stuff is kind of what made me think he was more likely to be town. I don't see scum acting like that.

This comment sits poorly with me.

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