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I must know, why were people getting banned for posting from WebTV?Last Chance posted:You got ripped off. In fairness, I got it with a decent 5.1 surround set, so I justify it by saying I paid $50 for speakers and got a free TV with it. It does 1080i and the picture looks OK, it just doesn't always play well with my PS4. It'll do until it either dies or I buy a new TV.
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Jul 24, 2015 14:47
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robodex posted:I must know, why were people getting banned for posting from WebTV? Edit: Found the old quote. "About 91% of visitors are on Windows. Mac users make up 5% and Linux is 2%. The other 2% are permabanned IRC trolls browsing the forums with a text-based browser written in Ruby on OpenBSD. Oh yeah, we have one guy using WebTV but I banned him because WTF." -- Radium
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Jul 24, 2015 14:52
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Cause Radiums a dick, the answer to most things around here.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:16
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robodex posted:I must know, why were people getting banned for posting from WebTV? I'm guessing you're too young to remember the halcyon days of Usenet. Back then AOL users were held in contempt because they were, by and large, clueless - AOL gave away setup discs in every drat magazine, so if you weren't tech savvy they were the first one you'd hear about. Below even AOLers, there were WebTV users. Whatever faults AOLers might have had, they did still at least have to know how to turn on a computer and connect a modem. WebTV was made for people to whom even that was overly taxing to the intellect. In ten years of regularly using Usenet, I never saw a post by a WebTV user that was less than cretinous.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:31
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As an occasional mastering engineer I can report that I will stop mastering for loudness just as soon as clients give me notes consisting of anything beyond "loud as gently caress, please" and stop sending me reference tracks that sound like an argument between a chainsaw and a Formula 1 engine.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:19
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Phanatic posted:Nah, modern CDs suck: I'm not referring to that part, but instead to the claim that iPhones are low-fi. They probably have better fidelity than a lot of car or home equipment (which shouldn't be surprising, because digital audio is extremely mature, and they don't have to do any real power amplification). Now, a lot of headphones connected to these devices are garbage (looking at you, Beats), but that's another issue.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:28
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Basticle posted:My best friend's grandmother's console tv finally bit the dust about 6 or 7 years ago and her kids bought her a plasma unit. She made them take the CRT out and put the plasma inside the console unit. I've seen pictures of it and its as stupid as it sounds. There are a few video games that ape the old-school video game aesthetic that also offer as a setting that "rounding" you get with old tube tv's. 
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Jul 24, 2015 16:42
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Speaking of obsolete TV tech, DLP TVs were the new hotness for all of a couple years in the mid aughts. LCDs still had bad viewing angles, poor blacks, and were pricey. Plasmas were even pricier and had bad burn-in. CRTs were heavy as gently caress, and not really available larger than like 36". CRT Projection TVs were bigger, but still pretty heavy, and kind of pricey. But DLP? Why, friend, DLP was all the good, none of the bad! No burn in, fairly inexpensive, real blacks, lighter than a CRT or CRT-projection (and a little bit thinner, too.) Honestly, they weren't bad TVs, but then the price on LCDs came WAAY down, while getting better blacks and viewing angles.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:44
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But rainbows
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Jul 24, 2015 16:50
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Slanderer posted:I'm not referring to that part, but instead to the claim that iPhones are low-fi. They probably have better fidelity than a lot of car or home equipment (which shouldn't be surprising, because digital audio is extremely mature, and they don't have to do any real power amplification). Now, a lot of headphones connected to these devices are garbage (looking at you, Beats), but that's another issue. Oh, I see, I didn't specify the exact make and model of headphones that came with the device, instead of assuming people would have the common sense to realize that most of the people listening through their iPhones use the stock earbuds or whatever piece of poo poo they can pick up at the convenience store because it says "iPhone" on it. That's what Joe Sixpack listens to music through, not Sennheiser HD 558s. There used to be a time when decent stereos were actually a fairly mainstream thing, and it also happened to be the time when most recorded music sounded a hell of a lot better. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 16:59 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 16:54
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Slanderer posted:I'm not referring to that part, but instead to the claim that iPhones are low-fi. They probably have better fidelity than a lot of car or home equipment (which shouldn't be surprising, because digital audio is extremely mature, and they don't have to do any real power amplification). Now, a lot of headphones connected to these devices are garbage (looking at you, Beats), but that's another issue. Back in the days of click‐wheel‐sporting, hard disk‐containing iPod, I recall aftermarket devices that plugged into the dock port and had their own digital‐to‐analogue converters and amplifiers. Unlike gold HDMI cables, they had a plausible method of operation. I don’t know if Apple’s components were mediocre and theirs were better, but it’s possible. Either way, I haven’t seen such devices advertised for iPhones. Maybe the iPhone’s audio circuitry is better, or maybe the add‐ons were always snake oil. All I’m saying is that if the iPhone’s circuitry were sub‐standard, I’d expect to see marketing for external amps/DACs like I did for the iPod. Then again, gold HDMI cables exist, so maybe my expectations are just out of line and it’s coincidence that I haven’t seen ads for such devices.
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Jul 24, 2015 16:56
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Axeman Jim posted:As an occasional mastering engineer I can report that I will stop mastering for loudness just as soon as clients give me notes consisting of anything beyond "loud as gently caress, please" and stop sending me reference tracks that sound like an argument between a chainsaw and a Formula 1 engine. Do you not have a volume knob? Have you considered lying and giving the deaf-as-gently caress clients the loudened "master" and secretly publishing the good one?
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Jul 24, 2015 16:56
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Wasabi the J posted:Have you considered lying and giving the deaf-as-gently caress clients the loudened "master" and secretly publishing the good one? I'm pretty sure that's some kind of fraud and will get you sued. You don't promise the customer one thing and give them something else. If the customer wants a CD that sounds like flatulence in a wind tunnel than by God that's what he's going to get.  Platystemon posted:Then again, gold HDMI cables exist, so maybe my expectations are just out of line and it’s coincidence that I haven’t seen ads for such devices.  €500 network cables will enhance the tone color of your porn.  Their site qualifies as obsolete and failed too with the 1999 single-resolution layout and PDF price sheet. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 17:14 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 16:58
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Wasabi the J posted:Do you not have a volume knob? Have you considered lying and giving the deaf-as-gently caress clients the loudened "master" and secretly publishing the good one? But I understand the difficulty of giving the client what they want vs what they need. And not everyone feels strongly enough about the issue to educate people. Flipperwaldt has a new favorite as of 17:18 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 17:10
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Woolie Wool posted:Oh, I see, I didn't specify the exact make and model of headphones that came with the device, instead of assuming people would have the common sense to realize that most of the people listening through their iPhones use the stock earbuds or whatever piece of poo poo they can pick up at the convenience store because it says "iPhone" on it. That's what Joe Sixpack listens to music through, not Sennheiser HD 558s. There used to be a time when decent stereos were actually a fairly mainstream thing, and it also happened to be the time when most recorded music sounded a hell of a lot better. lol if you think that modern releases are mastered for earbuds. If that were the case, they would be bringing the bass so far up that it would be hosed on car speakers.
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Jul 24, 2015 17:14
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Well most car speakers are garbage too (and inside a car, so the noise floor is through the loving roof), so 
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Jul 24, 2015 17:16
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Woolie Wool posted:Well most car speakers are garbage too (and inside a car, so the noise floor is through the loving roof), so "Garbage" means nothing in this context. Again, the assumption that anyone would master for earbuds (with poor low-frequency response) is loving ludicrous from a technical perspective.
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Jul 24, 2015 17:24
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Platystemon posted:Back in the days of click‐wheel‐sporting, hard disk‐containing iPod, I recall aftermarket devices that plugged into the dock port and had their own digital‐to‐analogue converters and amplifiers. I think external DACs are still a thing, but it's a small niche. I think that the internal DACs on current iPhones will do 16 bit / 44.1kHz, so an external DAC isn't going to give you any benefit with normal CD-quality audio sources. It''s hard to get 24 bit / 96kHz lossless for most stuff, so there is very little practical usage. Now, some audiophiles claim that even standard audio files will sound better with a high resolution DAC, no ABX test would back that up.
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Jul 24, 2015 17:29
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DrBouvenstein posted:Speaking of obsolete TV tech, DLP TVs were the new hotness for all of a couple years in the mid aughts. I have a DLP Viewsonic projector and it is really pretty awesome.
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Jul 24, 2015 17:31
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Woolie Wool posted:I'm pretty sure that's some kind of fraud and will get you sued. You don't promise the customer one thing and give them something else. If the customer wants a CD that sounds like flatulence in a wind tunnel than by God that's what he's going to get. A lot of websites that remain as such do so because their clients, which are other businesses, often have old as hell hardware and they need to remain accessible to them.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:00
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DrBouvenstein posted:Speaking of obsolete TV tech, DLP TVs were the new hotness for all of a couple years in the mid aughts. I really enjoyed my Samsung DLP. It didn't have the same pixelation of the LCD's at the time (2005) and had more natural colors. We replaced it with a plasma, which I guess will be an obsolete tech pretty soon. Can someone can explain why a plasma at 600mhz doesn't have that terrible soap opera effect that 240mhz LCD's have.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:04
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Because the soap opera effect has nothing to do with refresh rate itself, it's just that higher refresh rate enables them to do it. Think of it like 3D. 120Hz+ enables you to do 3D, but a 120Hz+ TV isn't just 3D all the time, it's an option. And also because that 600Hz number is bullshit for marketing, plasma doesn't refresh like LCD does.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:27
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Kaizoku posted:A lot of websites that remain as such do so because their clients, which are other businesses, often have old as hell software and they need to remain accessible to them. Fixed that. Microsoft had to move mountains to get enterprises off of IE6, and they slashed years off of the support timelines to get them to upgrade from IE8 and IE9. This may backfire tremendously if enterprises just keep running them after the security patches stop. The old model was to pay cheap contract programmers to build your internal web apps in a totally non standards-compliant way, end the contract when they are functional, and not pay to update when a new browser breaks them. Microsoft is forcing enterprises away from that, and they are going kicking and screaming.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:37
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Krispy Kareem posted:I really enjoyed my Samsung DLP. It didn't have the same pixelation of the LCD's at the time (2005) and had more natural colors. We replaced it with a plasma, which I guess will be an obsolete tech pretty soon. Because it's not running an interpolation algorithm to generate the in between frames. You can shut the feature off on most (all?) TVs that have it, and it'll look normal again.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:43
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Konstantin posted:Fixed that. Microsoft had to move mountains to get enterprises off of IE6, and they slashed years off of the support timelines to get them to upgrade from IE8 and IE9. This may backfire tremendously if enterprises just keep running them after the security patches stop. The old model was to pay cheap contract programmers to build your internal web apps in a totally non standards-compliant way, end the contract when they are functional, and not pay to update when a new browser breaks them. Microsoft is forcing enterprises away from that, and they are going kicking and screaming. Fair enough, I was drawing too much from personal experience with companies who bought computers in the late-eighties/early-nineties and figured "we'll replace it when it stops working" and to them 'working' means powering on.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:49
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Woolie Wool posted:I'm pretty sure that's some kind of fraud and will get you sued. You don't promise the customer one thing and give them something else. If the customer wants a CD that sounds like flatulence in a wind tunnel than by God that's what he's going to get. Considering an action is not planning or premeditating an action  I was kidding though; I have a musician brother-in-law and I had to do a basic master on a couple of songs for funsies -- ended up going back and forth with him over the benefit of turning the volume knob clockwise vs making the track hotter in Protools.
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Jul 24, 2015 20:12
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Wasabi the J posted:Do you not have a volume knob? Have you considered lying and giving the deaf-as-gently caress clients the loudened "master" and secretly publishing the good one? You uh, know what a compressor does, don't you?
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Jul 24, 2015 20:56
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Laserjet 4P posted:You uh, know what a compressor does, don't you? Yes but the loudness he wanted was crushing everything to death, making it nearly impossible to tell that they changed dynamics at all in the song. He's loving deaf as gently caress from years of being in front of PAs, any time he couldn't hear any part of the song he wanted it more loving compressed. I'm not practiced at music sound so this was just a hobby project.
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Jul 24, 2015 21:55
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robodex posted:I must know, why were people getting banned for posting from WebTV? When it dies you can harvest the big lens out of it and use it to melt pennies with sunlight. 
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Jul 24, 2015 22:12
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Kaizoku posted:A lot of websites that remain as such do so because their clients, which are other businesses, often have old as hell hardware and they need to remain accessible to them. Enterprises don't buy $1200 VGA cables.
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Jul 24, 2015 23:15
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Also I master the way I (usually) do because there's still plenty of places where the loudness war is fought in earnest - such as internet radio and streaming. When I produced my first album in 2010, for my then-band, I had to do the mastering (another point to make is that the producer in a pro production will almost never do the mastering, and often not do the mixing either) because there was no money to pay anyone else. So I asked for advice and got told "keep the dynamics, don't over-compress" by everyone and their dog. Idiotically I listened to them and produced a master of excellent dynamic range. I felt really pleased with myself, right until we got our first airplay. Our track sounded literally half the volume of the tracks that came before and after it. It was hideous. I then heard it on shuffle on my own mp3 player and yep, compared to every other track in the same genre, it basically wasn't there and I had to crank the device's volume (causing the next track to be deafening if I forgot to turn it down again). I had to do the whole mastering over again and since then I have little choice but to brick-wall it, at least in the loud sections. Also the default earbuds that come with iPhones aren't half bad - certainly compared to the pieces of poo poo the came with my Samsung Galaxy. Decent bass response, and a habit of showing up any noise or errors in a mix that even my nice Sennheisers seem to miss. I set of iPhone earbuds is one of my main monitoring systems when mixing alongside some nearfield monitors, a cheap mono speaker and the proper reference cans. These days you have to mix/master to how 99% of your audience are going to listen, and for every hi-fi dork listening through his $3000 solid gold speaker cables personally blessed by the Dalai Lama or whatever, ten thousand are listening to a Spotify stream through iPhone earbuds.
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Jul 25, 2015 01:06
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I actually run all of my MP3s through software to drop the gain so that they don't deafen me.
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Jul 25, 2015 01:24
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We were always told to master music so it sounded good in the car as it's a good leveller
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Jul 25, 2015 01:58
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peter gabriel posted:We were always told to master music so it sounded good in the car as it's a good leveller This is pretty much how I do it. I've found that if it sounds great in the car, it's going to sound good on anything else. You have stuff like road noise and crazy bass waves from the reflections in the car to compete with, so you learn quickly what works and doesn't.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:49
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Phanatic posted:You can't restore lost dynamic range just by turning down the gain at the playback stage, so unless the producers learn new habits, things will still sound pretty bad. A week ago, the national marketing manager for Samsung tried to convince me that their new soundbars actually will do this. loving idiots. (they also had some unreleased wifi speakers that they didnt know existed until the day our team arrived to have a look at other stuff. Upon asking what it does he says "just play with it for a few minutes and you tell me!) DrBouvenstein posted:Speaking of obsolete TV tech, DLP TVs were the new hotness for all of a couple years in the mid aughts. I love my free 75in DLP TV. All it cost was a new board inside for $50 and away I went. Still think I am missing out on all this new fangled 1080p thing I heard about. 1080i is all I have on ANY TV in my house 
Humphreys has a new favorite as of 11:14 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 08:10
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Axeman Jim posted:These days you have to mix/master to how 99% of your audience are going to listen, and for every hi-fi dork listening through his $3000 solid gold speaker cables personally blessed by the Dalai Lama or whatever, ten thousand are listening to a Spotify stream through iPhone earbuds.
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Jul 25, 2015 11:25
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Flipperwaldt posted:It's not 2010 anymore and as the article pointed out: iTunes and Spotify are two of the big players who adopted the new system. I'm not going to say that is 99% of your audience, but it covers a drat good chunk of listeners for most types of music. And that was the point. Something tangible actually changed in real life and it's a start. I've spent like five minutes trying to figure out what this post is saying, what "the article" is and how the post is saying anything different than the post you quoted. Also what is the"new system"?
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Jul 25, 2015 15:20
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Last Chance posted:I've spent like five minutes trying to figure out what this post is saying, what "the article" is and how the post is saying anything different than the post you quoted. Also what is the"new system"? Flipperwaldt posted:http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb14/articles/loudness-war.htm Axeman Jim: streaming services do not participate in the volume leveling that the broadcast sector uses, so I still have to master for loudness. Here's an example of how I had to do things in 2010. Flipperwaldt: actually some of the largest streaming services do participate, so that's not a foregone conclusion anymore. Maybe a 2010 experience isn't all that relevant anymore since the change happened in 2014. That's leaving out some nuance. I'm aware not everything has changed overnight. It's just that catering for the streaming, idevice owning crowd doesn't bring you in a straight line to mastering for loudness anymore like it did a couple of years ago. There are cracks starting to show in that argument. And I am (maybe too) hopeful that that will allow things to change for the better.
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Jul 25, 2015 17:25
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I was still using a giant RCA console TV up to the late 90's. The picture was actually pretty decent for something from the early 80's. Having a big surface on the top was kind of nice for decorations and stuff. About that same time I was still using a hand me down Technics rack system I got from my mom. It was actually pretty good stuff. Not one of those crummy all in one things, but separate components that just happened to be purchased together in a cabinet. The amp that came with that stuff was a powerhouse.
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Jul 26, 2015 04:47
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I had a mid-80s domestic (I'm thinking Finlux but maybe it was a Salora ) sub-30"* CRT TV up until 2010 or something and boy howdy did switching over from the analogue tuner to an external digital tuner in 2007 change it from "TV with lovely picture" to "TV with great picture." Only reason I got an LCD was that a lot of Xbox 360 games on a smallish CRT through RGB had pretty much unreadable text. *) I mean I don't remember what size it was but I remember it started with a 2.
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