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JesustheDarkLord
May 22, 2006

#VolsDeep
Lipstick Apathy
I've been paid in moonshine

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Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

JesustheDarkLord posted:

I've been paid in moonshine

When I promised to pay you with "Mountain Dew" that's not what I meant

Stabby_McBitchslap
Apr 7, 2008

Ashcans posted:

You should probably head over to the debt collection thread, but if that debt is actually yours and its the creditor suing you (ie, the card company and not the 8th person to buy that debt) I can't imagine a lawyer is actually going to save you any money overall.

I've read a good portion of that thread it hasn't been too helpful in this case. It's the actual credit card company doing it... although they're being sort of weird about the whole thing. At first I received a letter from their lawyer saying they were going to sue if we didn't get the account current, which we did, and I stopped thinking about it. Then out of the blue I start getting all these letters from bankruptcy lawyers trying to get me to hire them since I was being sued, which was news to me. I called this week to make the payment that was due and afterwards kind of casually asked the customer service chick if they were suing us. After putting me on hold for twenty minutes she came back on and said that they were, and that she'd cancelled the payment I'd just made.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

JesustheDarkLord posted:

I've been paid in moonshine

Alcohol is as good as cash for lawyers. Its what they're gonna buy with the money anyhow.
In the 80s, coke worked too.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

nm posted:

Alcohol is as good as cash for lawyers. Its what they're gonna buy with the money anyhow.
In the 80s, coke worked too.

My lawyer friends accept firearms as payment too.

JesustheDarkLord
May 22, 2006

#VolsDeep
Lipstick Apathy
We also got weekly pizza for a year one time from a dui client whose parents owned a pizza place.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
We got 1 client to pay us in leftover granite pavers, and another to pay us in labor and mortar.

Voilà: new backyard patio!

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
I got a sword once.

I also got an edible arrangement.

Wooooooo

fordan
Mar 9, 2009

Clue: Zero

Stabby_McBitchslap posted:

I've read a good portion of that thread it hasn't been too helpful in this case. It's the actual credit card company doing it... although they're being sort of weird about the whole thing. At first I received a letter from their lawyer saying they were going to sue if we didn't get the account current, which we did, and I stopped thinking about it. Then out of the blue I start getting all these letters from bankruptcy lawyers trying to get me to hire them since I was being sued, which was news to me. I called this week to make the payment that was due and afterwards kind of casually asked the customer service chick if they were suing us. After putting me on hold for twenty minutes she came back on and said that they were, and that she'd cancelled the payment I'd just made.

Yeah, debt collector thread is probably your best bet. Based on what I've read there you might be able to avoid a judgement at least temporarily by actually showing up and requesting proof of the debt. A lot of times the lawyer is doing many such suits at once and expecting most/all of them to be default judgements when the debtor fails to show. On the other hand, based on most credit card agreements you're paying for their lawyer so eating up his time may not be in your best interests, and if he actually works for the credit card company he'll have easy access to proof you owe the debt.

nm
Jan 28, 2008

"I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."
As a PD, we don't really get paid by clients, however I did get tamales from a lady who was accused of stealing tamale ingredients. Yum.

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




Cross post from elsewhere:

Anyone familiar with real estate law? Our owners title insurance was charged on HUD, but the lawyer neglected to actually purchase it. This is for a condo in NJ, closed in 2014. Now the lawyer says it will take a month to get the owner title insurance. Is there any cause for concern?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
How can you get title insurance on a transaction that has already occurred?

Title Insurance is:

"Hey, pay us $XXX.xx and we will certify that the person selling you this house has sufficient ownership (title) to do so. We are so confident in our research that we will shell out enough money to cover your loss in the event that we are wrong."

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Rated PG-34 posted:

Cross post from elsewhere:

Anyone familiar with real estate law? Our owners title insurance was charged on HUD, but the lawyer neglected to actually purchase it. This is for a condo in NJ, closed in 2014. Now the lawyer says it will take a month to get the owner title insurance. Is there any cause for concern?

If the lawyer you refer to is your lawyer, you should call and ask her.

Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

This is pretty lol to me personally because I've been doing title poo poo all. loving. week.

RECORD YOUR DEEDS AND LET LAWYERS DRAFT THEM.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
Better yet, draft a release of the mortgage, record that, get a new mortgage based on the old one being released, repeat a half dozen times then avoid service on your boat in the Caribbean.

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




Hot Dog Day #91 posted:

If the lawyer you refer to is your lawyer, you should call and ask her.

The lawyer is giving us the run around; the fact that he can't seem to buy the insurance immediately now suggests that the title is not clean.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Rated PG-34 posted:

The lawyer is giving us the run around; the fact that he can't seem to buy the insurance immediately now suggests that the title is not clean.


blarzgh posted:

How can you get title insurance on a transaction that has already occurred?

Title Insurance is:

"Hey, pay us $XXX.xx and we will certify that the person selling you this house has sufficient ownership (title) to do so. We are so confident in our research that we will shell out enough money to cover your loss in the event that we are wrong."

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004





Yes, the transaction already occurred, and in an uninsured fashion; we're more worried that the title isn't clean, which is suggested by not being able to purchase title insurance on it now for potential resale.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Rated PG-34 posted:

Yes, the transaction already occurred, and in an uninsured fashion; we're more worried that the title isn't clean, which is suggested by not being able to purchase title insurance on it now for potential resale.

The fact that you can't purchase title insurance is suggested by the fact that the transaction already occurred. Because that's how title insurance works.

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




Motronic posted:

The fact that you can't purchase title insurance is suggested by the fact that the transaction already occurred. Because that's how title insurance works.

Okay, that makes the most sense to me too. Why would the lawyer say he ordered it a month ago then, I have no idea. How can I check if the title is clean then?

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys

mastershakeman posted:

Better yet, draft a release of the mortgage, record that, get a new mortgage based on the old one being released, repeat a half dozen times then avoid service on your boat in the Caribbean.

keep going, i'm writing this down

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
I hypothetically took a trip to South America last year, but forgot to buy travel insurance. I'm trying to buy some now, but my travel agent won't return my calls, does this mean there might be something fishy about my trip?

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Motronic posted:

The fact that you can't purchase title insurance is suggested by the fact that the transaction already occurred. Because that's how title insurance works.

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
Are you trying to purchase travel insurance retroactively? I think you should explain a bit more.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
I hypothetically died last year, but I can't buy life insurance

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




Doing some more research, and it looks like title insurance is the only type of insurance that insures backwards in time and not forwards.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

blarzgh posted:

How can you get title insurance on a transaction that has already occurred?

Title Insurance is:

"Hey, pay us $XXX.xx and we will certify that the person selling you this house has sufficient ownership (title) to do so. We are so confident in our research that we will shell out enough money to cover your loss in the event that we are wrong."

There's no reason that can't be done after the fact, just replace "person selling owns" with "purported owner owns". I mean the new owner could buy title insurance for the next sale...

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Rated PG-34 posted:

Doing some more research, and it looks like title insurance is the only type of insurance that insures backwards in time and not forwards.

Reps and warranties insurance is also backwards looking.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
The reason it can't be done after the fact is that it's an insurance of the transaction itself. Without a pending transaction, there's nothing to insure.

You could certainly buy a title opinion any day of the week, but that opinion is just that - an opinion. It doesn't do anything. Title insurance is supported by a Title Opinion, because they're saying "its our opinion that seller has good title, and if we are wrong we will pay."

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
I think people may be conflating the opinion, and the policy. Title insurance is a product. That product is an insurance policy based on a title opinion.

Rated PG-34
Jul 1, 2004




I'm told that it can be bought at any time: refinancing a mortgage requires new title insurance for the bank for instance.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

blarzgh posted:

The reason it can't be done after the fact is that it's an insurance of the transaction itself. Without a pending transaction, there's nothing to insure.

I think you're wrong...its an insurance that the title is clear, usually bought in the amount of the transaction just for convenience. No reason you can't get that done later other than you're obviously hosed when the search comes back "oops" and the insurance company says "no thanks." If it's clean now why wouldn't they write a policy?

Kazak_Hstan
Apr 28, 2014

Grimey Drawer
I don't do real estate and I've never bought a house, so please cure my ignorance:

Title insurance is a bet based on research - the bet being there are not any surprise parties holding some unknown interest in real property. If that's a good bet when A sells the property to B, why isn't it a good bet the next day, or the next year.

Title insurance isn't insuring against the seller coming back and suing the buyer, it's insuring against some unknown third party suing the buyer. I don't see how it's tied to the transaction, other than the fact that it would be dumb to buy property without getting it. It's not like getting trip insurance for last year's trip, or flood insurance after the flood; the thing you're insuring against hasn't actually happened yet.

What is the flaw in my understanding?

Sefer
Sep 2, 2006
Not supposed to be here today
While we're talking title insurance, there was something I was curious about. My sister bought property recently and a neighbor told her husband that some of the land he was mowing belonged to the neighbor, not my sister. They're in a dispute about it now, lawyers are involved. Based on my limited understanding of title insurance, I suggested that my sister contact her title insurance since this sounds like the kind of thing they're supposed to cover- the survey done as part of the purchase indicated she was buying that land, the neighbor claims he has a contradicting survey, and I thought title insurance would step in to help if someone else was claiming land that was part of that purchase. She got in touch and said it wasn't something they cover, which surprised me. What am I missing about title insurance that makes that something it wouldn't cover?

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Sefer posted:

While we're talking title insurance, there was something I was curious about. My sister bought property recently and a neighbor told her husband that some of the land he was mowing belonged to the neighbor, not my sister. They're in a dispute about it now, lawyers are involved. Based on my limited understanding of title insurance, I suggested that my sister contact her title insurance since this sounds like the kind of thing they're supposed to cover- the survey done as part of the purchase indicated she was buying that land, the neighbor claims he has a contradicting survey, and I thought title insurance would step in to help if someone else was claiming land that was part of that purchase. She got in touch and said it wasn't something they cover, which surprised me. What am I missing about title insurance that makes that something it wouldn't cover?

From some random web page:

quote:

One aspect that often goes unmentioned though is what is commonly referred to as the "survey exception". Near the back of most title insurance commitments are "standard exceptions" which are matters that the title policy will not insure against. These commonly include unrecorded claims, taxes and liens that are due after the date of the title examination and policy, etc. This is understandable, and of no surprise. But the one that can really come back to a property owner later is the "survey exception". Varying according to the title insurance company and type of policy, this exception generally omits coverage against any encroachment, overlaps, encumbrance, boundary line dispute, or other matters which would have been disclosed by a current survey. What qualifies as "current" varies but is generally between 30 and 90 days of the date of the title examination.

This means that if any of these matters exist at the time of the title examination, but a current survey is not used in conjunction with the closing and title policy, they will not be covered under the title policy. Though we all want to be insured against an error of a filing clerk in the 1970s or an imposter selling someone else's land, the matters that the "survey exception" encompass are the among most common problems associated with owning property. This doesn't keep people from filing title insurance claims regarding these matters, but title insurance companies routinely determine that a current survey would have revealed the problem prior to the policy being written, and thus deny coverage. Part of their logic is that the parties involved would have been alerted to the matter and could have resolved or addressed it prior to closing, but chose not to by not obtaining a current survey.

http://www.chastainassociates.com/title-insurance.aspx

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Rated PG-34 posted:

I'm told that it can be bought at any time: refinancing a mortgage requires new title insurance for the bank for instance.

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Title insurance isn't insuring against the seller coming back and suing the buyer, it's insuring against some unknown third party suing the buyer. I don't see how it's tied to the transaction

The cost of the transaction (this includes a refi) is what the policy is written against.

I'm talking about a normal and typical real estate transaction in the US.

Can you get insurance on just about any drat thing at any time for any reason if you're willing to pay for it? Sure. But that's not how regular title insurance works in my experience.

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
Ok, let me clarify: If there was a defect in title at the time of the purchase, then the title company may find it for him now, after the fact - when they perform a title opinion. But if they do, they sure as gently caress aren't going to give him insurance. "Here, pay us $500, so we can shell out $500,000 on your behalf!"

Typically when you go to closing:
1. You ask for a title policy
2. The Title Co. reviews the deed history and and liens or other encumbrances.
3. The Title Co. contacts lienholders or other holders of title defects and tries to fix them.
4. When everything comes back clean, or gets fixed,They generate their final title opinion, and exceptions from the conveyance.
5. They issue title insurance.
6. Everything else happens > closing > sale goes through.

He can't retroactively get title insurance on the sale. He would have to look to the seller to indemnify him in the event of some defect. He can't retroactively insure his title with respect to the underlying transaction, [sidebar: its odd, because this is usually a condition of sale - I've never heard of an escrow agency that would sign off on the funds without a good title policy; its generally a condition to closing.]

Its a catch 22. If there is a problem with his title right now, he's hosed, and they won't issue the policy. If there's nothing wrong with his title, there's no reason for him to pay for the policy that they'd be happy to issue. I assume you can walk into any Title Company and ask for a title insurance policy on your house. They'll take your money, I'm sure. But if there is a defect in your title, they won't cover you anyways.

Edit: /\ /\ /\ This is NOT ADVICE GET AN ATTORNEY /\ /\ /\

I'm a real estate attorney in Texas, which is as different from NJ as humanly possible.

blarzgh fucked around with this message at 00:58 on Jul 25, 2015

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer

Sefer posted:

While we're talking title insurance, there was something I was curious about. My sister bought property recently and a neighbor told her husband that some of the land he was mowing belonged to the neighbor, not my sister. They're in a dispute about it now, lawyers are involved. Based on my limited understanding of title insurance, I suggested that my sister contact her title insurance since this sounds like the kind of thing they're supposed to cover- the survey done as part of the purchase indicated she was buying that land, the neighbor claims he has a contradicting survey, and I thought title insurance would step in to help if someone else was claiming land that was part of that purchase. She got in touch and said it wasn't something they cover, which surprised me. What am I missing about title insurance that makes that something it wouldn't cover?

Most states have a Board of Insurance or something akin that writes all their standard insurance policies. Life, Title, or Car insurance; will often times be the same across the board on the most basic level, and then companies will add on coverages and other features on top of that. I'd bet a dollar that your state has that rule about surveys.


Title research is kind of like ""Paul definitely owns all of Lot 1, Block 17 of Eastonwood Estates. Jane sold it to Steve who sold it to Janice who is sold it to Paul. We are confident that whatever Lot 1, Block 17 is, Paul owns that bitch."

A metes and bounds description (generated by the surveyor) is "Here is what Lot 1, Block 17 is. its 1.2756 acres, where if you start at the southeast corner, and go 50 feet, turn west, blah blah blah."

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

We will insure this title

EXCEPTION: entrenched colony of gypsies

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Hot Dog Day #91
Jun 19, 2003

Title insurance doesn't necessarily get involved over boundary disputes. I've never seen a title insurance policy issued after the transaction. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

I'm also a real estate attorney in Texas and one day blarzgh and I WILL come into conflict and I can't wait.

Hot Dog Day #91 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 25, 2015

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