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Ineptitude posted:I had forgotten how annoying it is to have to remove all those trees. In the game i started i was right in the middle of a huge rear end forest. I suppose i could have restarted until i started in a desert or something, but id rather have a better system for dealing with trees than that. Maybe a tree removing robot you can build early on in the game? Use poison capsules for deforestation until you research construction bots, then make them 'deconstruct' the forest. Medium poles give better area coverage than the large ones, and substations are even better yet. The only advantage to large poles is how far apart you can place them.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:46
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Fans posted:Does anyone else use Circuit networks? The only circuits I used in my last factory where to drain the capacitors instead of turning on the engines at night.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:50
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Are there any applied demonstrations of the new logistics devices? I have no idea how they work, or what use they are/could be.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:56
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Overwined posted:His point is that the resources and time put in to manufacturing those 5000 robots is astronomically higher than if you used belts. it doesn't feel like much effort. The drones pick up the ore from the sites and move them back to the factory regardless of distance as long as you have drone hives on the way to recharge them. The factory processes all the ores to build more robots. All I do is place out miners at new ore sites. To clarify. On my latest playthrough I skipped logistics drones all together because they make the game a lot less fun but I believe they are more efficient.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:17
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Yes and no. They have their place in really dense factory setups (with lots of small quantities of unique items) but bulk work over long distances, where trains would shine, they are terribly inefficient. Here's a good breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of each transport system.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:09
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Foehammer posted:Use poison capsules for deforestation until you research construction bots, then make them 'deconstruct' the forest. Yeah i know of/use both those, but they both require blue science and by the time you get to that stage base building is practically done (at least for me) Medium poles give more coverage but its not enough for an assembler with inserters on both sides, which means you need the same amount of medium poles as you do small ones. If the area was increased to 8 instead of 7 (i suppose it would have to be 9) then they would effectively halve the amount of poles needed
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Jul 23, 2015 18:16
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Incoming wall of text about gameplay. I think the best use of logistics bots is to enable you to make your base copy-paste-able. Once you have assemblers set up that produce literally every item in the game (that aren't being produced in bulk on your main bus-line), you can just go wild with blueprints and know that eventually everything will get built. But setting up an assembler for every single item, using belts, is horribly tedious. That's where the logistics bots come in. I stole this design from the 1-minute rocket defense base, and it works wonderfully:  My complaint about this is once you're at this phase in factory development, the challenges faced by you as a player are somewhat tedious. You no longer have to deal with the interesting logistic challenges of laying out these production bits; logistic robots are true to their name when used this way. In order to feed this universal fabricator with inputs, you'll need huge numbers of raw materials. Building the train networks to suck those in is fun, but having to relocate your mining outposts frequently when they run dry isn't. Repeatedly murdering alien bases by spamming combat robots loses its fun after a while. I feel like combat robots appear probably a little too early in the tech tree based on how powerful they are; there should probably be some useful tier of military gear after the tank (which is hugely fun until it becomes underpowered). There should probably also be a useful tier of defensive tech after laser turrets. Maybe the combat robots could fill both roles: act as another type of logistic/construction robot, and they're powered by roboports but don't blow up after 30 seconds of existence. With a setup like that, you'd have a harder time just wandering into an alien base with a hundred of them swarming around you. Instead you'd need to slowly push your roboports outward, adding to the feeling of your factory steadily covering the world. In that situation it would be nice if roboports drew less power when idle. I also feel like solar power/accumulators are a little overpowered (pardon the pun). They basically end your need for gathering fuel materials; might be less powerful if they had less power density (while costing less), so you needed to clear a lot of land of biters before you could produce a lot of power from them. They should probably appear later in the tech tree as well, with maybe a new tier of power like nuclear occupying their current space. I haven't tried any mods that add nuclear yet; do any of them do an interesting job of it? I sort of like how the layout gameplay changes a lot when you're working with petrol plants compared to putting down belts. Perhaps the relative placement of the components of your nuclear power are similarly interesting? So yeah the gameplay eventually progresses to the point where a lot of the original charm and interesting bits are made irrelevant. And the things that replace it aren't very interesting, although the godlike feeling of power armor and an army of robots is kind of neat. Maybe the player should have to progress through more tiers of stuff to get there, though?
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Jul 23, 2015 18:36
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Sage Grimm posted:Yes and no. They have their place in really dense factory setups (with lots of small quantities of unique items) but bulk work over long distances, where trains would shine, they are terribly inefficient. Here's a good breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of each transport system. I'm fairly certain that from a pure game perspective trains are just an RP thing that is just for fun and they could safely be discarded in favour of Conveyor highways. Just driving a tank in a straight line and laying down conveyors will certainly give more materials per second for the effort than laying down tracks and placing stations.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:02
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But biters attack Conveyers, so if just one gets through you got to go fix the loving thing.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:21
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To anyone working with the Landfill mod...I think I found a bug.
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Jul 23, 2015 19:22
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Fans posted:But biters attack Conveyers, so if just one gets through you got to go fix the loving thing. Biters would chew up my train track like pacman last timed I play with them set to aggressive. Zephyrine fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 19:25
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Means you aren't running enough trains! Constant engines flying around the tracks, daring you to cross without getting sideswiped. 
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Jul 23, 2015 19:49
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Sage Grimm posted:Means you aren't running enough trains! Constant engines flying around the tracks, daring you to cross without getting sideswiped. Can a train run down a big biter? Just Curiosity really.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:04
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If it's got a little speed, yeah. It's got 50/60% impact resistance. Which I think means it just ignores the first 50 impact damage, and 60% of whatever's left. So it can take a hit pretty well.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:38
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I don't know about the new super ones, but at full speed a train would kill anything before. At lower speed it would bounce off and possibly be destroyed before it drove over them. Long distance belt lines are too expensive. By the time I can afford it I've already got a train network going.
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Jul 23, 2015 20:42
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drat, concrete sure doesn't last long. I stored 5k and then decided to carpet my base for the looks of it, but it only covered the immediate environs around the rocket silo.  I need to measure stuff more often I guess.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:58
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Yeah paving takes an absolute shitload of concrete. At least it gives you something to do with all those stone deposits.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:02
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Fans posted:Yeah paving takes an absolute shitload of concrete. At least it gives you something to do with all those stone deposits. That's a nice change. Since I set the aliens to passive my only use for stone has been furnaces and tracks.
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Jul 24, 2015 05:27
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0.12.1 is out! Burner inserters now start with enough energy to pick up one item and fuel itself, so the initial phase of the game should be notably less fiddly. Also plenty of bug fixes, including the shield thing.
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Jul 24, 2015 22:49
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Wait, burner inserters fuel themselves now?
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Jul 24, 2015 23:10
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oxbrain posted:Wait, burner inserters fuel themselves now? They've done that for at least as long as I've been playing, provided they were given one piece of fuel to start them off (no longer necessary). If their fuel stock ran out and they were positioned to pick up a fuel item, they would claim the fuel item rather than moving it across. If you were always vigilant to make sure your inserters had several coal to burn you probably wouldn't have seen it. This is why it's a good idea to have one burner inserter on your steam boilers in case of a total blackout; it would never let itself lose power.
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Jul 24, 2015 23:13
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I upgraded my dedicated server(ikanreed.net) to run 0.12.1. They still haven't fixed the problems with clients sometimes needing to forward ports, but I hope they will soon.
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Jul 25, 2015 01:06
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So, I started fresh on 0.12 and I'm trying some new stuff: Maybe you can tell what I'm going for here. I'm trying to design a sorter that I can belt the 4 raw materials into and have it sort it and send it to the correct place. This is my second design, and it has wound up being like those Japanese restaurants where the food goes around on a belt until someone that wants it takes it off. I like playing with trains mostly, and not having to sort remote train stops into "Iron field 5", "Copper field 3", and just letting them pickup a mess of stuff and having it sorted back at base is what's driving me. The biggest problem I can see is throughput, as even with the top tier belts it'll max out pretty fast. This all feeds into a bus system, so the other problem is if you get too much of any one thing further on and it starts backing up, it'll cut off supply to other materials once the sorter gets jammed. Neither of which is a giant issue to me, because I spend hours and hours playing with the early game stuff and just building train lines. But if someone has tried something like this, I wouldn't mind hearing about your experience.  This is the second new thing I'm trying out. Instead of having one line of belts, I'm doing this weird branching-combining belt system to hopefully spread the load more evenly across furnaces. With the way belts work, it looks like it's going to be about the same, but I thought I'd try it out.
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Jul 25, 2015 04:18
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RVT posted:So, I started fresh on 0.12 and I'm trying some new stuff:
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Jul 25, 2015 04:28
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You need a 'trash' storage area for the times it gets overwhelmed so the belt doesn't get jammed. Once it eases off you could then reintroduce it back to the start using the circuit network to determine this and it can be properly sorted!
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Jul 25, 2015 04:43
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Sage Grimm posted:You need a 'trash' storage area for the times it gets overwhelmed so the belt doesn't get jammed. Once it eases off you could then reintroduce it back to the start using the circuit network to determine this and it can be properly sorted! I've thought about this a little, played with chest to increase the buffer amount, but if you get really clogged, I don't see a way to fix it except manually. Which is fine for me, because that's pretty much all I do. But if you have a "trash" system that'll actually automate it I'd love to hear it. Reading your post closer, I've never used the circuit network in my many hours of factorio, so maybe I'm missing out. RVT fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 05:07
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RVT posted:So, I started fresh on 0.12 and I'm trying some new stuff: I was thinking the same and never got past that problem. Currently my trains have 10 cars instead.  The upper car marked for solid fuel is in fact a coal cart but my chemical plant moves solid fuel into the system through that car which means the car will pick up less coal from the miners when it's full of solid fuel. The other car always has coal so that there's coal for things like plastics and explosives. Oil is only turned into fuel when the production storage is full and coal will only be burned for fuel when there's no spare oil to burn. I opted out of using speed modules on anything but bottlenecks like advanced circuits. In my experience I have more than enough room for a few extra furnaces or oil refineries but when the whole factory is boosted I quickly run out of space for steam power plants and although you can easily power any base fully with solar power and accumulators. That feels a bit like cheating to me. Zephyrine fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 06:46
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RVT posted:I've thought about this a little, played with chest to increase the buffer amount, but if you get really clogged, I don't see a way to fix it except manually. Which is fine for me, because that's pretty much all I do. But if you have a "trash" system that'll actually automate it I'd love to hear it. Well if you ever get clogged you have three ways of fixing it without siphoning up the materials yourself: expanding the sorting array with more belts, expanding the unsorted storage array with more chests or expanding the buffer of the sorted material with more chests. The chests are easier on space since you only need a chest and two inserters for input and output. There's also the possibility of staggering your sorting inserters so that each 'vane' on your sorting array isn't dedicated to a single material. That way you aren't prone to having a glut of a single material block the operation entirely. The downside to this is it'll eat up more space because you'd need spots for tunnel belts and splitters. Circuit network is more to get fancy with using a timer and the input of the unsorted storage array to determine if it hasn't been used over such and such a period. If it does then it starts the output of the same to start dropping off material back into the sorting array. There's literally nothing preventing you from constantly feeding the unsorted stuff without such efforts; it's more of an aesthetic choice. Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 15:32
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  A setup like this should let you handle any combination of up to 5 ingredients in any train without backing up.
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Jul 25, 2015 18:46
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So uh.... Did they change something about the biters in this patch or the previous content patch? I haven't played in a few months, and I remember the early game being relatively peaceful with a few weak biter attacks to keep you awake while building the base. Now I'm getting absolutely crushed by huge packs, but I'm playing on the default difficulty setting (apart from slightly increased resources) as always. I haven't yet seen an attack where the pistol was enough to make even a dent in the attacking biter swarm. I researched the submachine gun as fast as I could this time, and that was barely enough to kill the first swarm before they killed me (I had ~5% health left), but I didn't stand a chance against the next swarm. Granted, I'm not very good at the game, but I'm building as fast as I can here and both the pistol and the SMG are useless against the very first attacks I see. I have had maybe 10-20 burner miners running, so the pollution shouldn't be that bad, surely? I think I can just about salvage this game (though I've died and reloaded a bunch), because I just managed to get 3 turrets up before the second attack wave now. They were only barely able to stop the biters though, so hopefully the waves won't get much stronger for a while now. A single turret on its own didn't stand a chance, and there's not even any point in me shooting my puny SMG at them. Is something hosed or is the default difficulty just much higher than it was?
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Jul 25, 2015 19:05
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Apoffys posted:So uh.... Did they change something about the biters in this patch or the previous content patch? I haven't played in a few months, and I remember the early game being relatively peaceful with a few weak biter attacks to keep you awake while building the base. Now I'm getting absolutely crushed by huge packs, but I'm playing on the default difficulty setting (apart from slightly increased resources) as always. You probably are scaling up too quickly.
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Jul 25, 2015 19:25
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Apoffys posted:So uh.... Did they change something about the biters in this patch or the previous content patch? I haven't played in a few months, and I remember the early game being relatively peaceful with a few weak biter attacks to keep you awake while building the base. Now I'm getting absolutely crushed by huge packs, but I'm playing on the default difficulty setting (apart from slightly increased resources) as always. Biters got changed a lot to be more aggressive. I would suggest getting gun turrets researched and walls and building up a few pill boxes that you can run to when the biters attack. You'll really need to rely on turrets as the smg can't really repel a full biter attack focused on you. But if you can get near a pillbox the biters will go aft it rather than you.
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Jul 25, 2015 19:26
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I've found an SMG + first armor to be sufficient to stop biter attacks for the first hour or so. Turrets are preferable though, obviously. Biters are much more aggressive this game and I feel like pollution spreads further faster as well. Especially across deserts. You really need to automate ammo and science production (via boxes if necessary) as soon as possible.
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Jul 25, 2015 19:44
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Pop and Loch Nessy posted:You probably are scaling up too quickly. This. 10-20 burner miners is an obscene amount of pollution for the early game, which in my opinion is a bit of a shame. Given their mining speed their pollution could easily be cut to 3-5 instead of the 10 that it's at right now. It'd be nice to have the option at least of going with burner miners in the short term instead of trying to transition over to electricity as soon as possible.
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Jul 25, 2015 20:15
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People use burner inserters? I immediately jumpstart electricity even if its just powering coal mines and a research facility
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Jul 26, 2015 01:22
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I use burner inserters to power the Boilers for Steam Engines and that's pretty much it.
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Jul 26, 2015 01:26
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LLSix posted:and I feel like pollution spreads further faster as well. Especially across deserts. Ambient pollution decay is slower, yes. Where before it as a flat 0.55 / second per chunk (not counting trees), now it's terrain dependent. A chunk of deep ocean removes more than 0.55 pollution now, but everything else (even good ol' grass) is more like 0.46. Desert is a double whammy, at roughly half the old value, and of course no trees. Guessing a little at the numbers here, but they seem to jive.
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Jul 26, 2015 05:17
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Are there any good mods that expand what is available without adding in absurd amounts of new resources and arbitrary building requirements? I just tried out Bob's mods after Arumba talked about them for a bit, but holy poo poo is it a grind to get loving anywhere. Not only do you need wood for basic circuits (because lord knows the best possible material to make heavy machinery components out of is wood, right?), but the second tier of circuits not only requires wood, it also requires resin (made from wood/oil), three different kinds of new ore, two different chemicals, and something like six different components. Add in to that that not only do some machines require plates of new metals, but they require gears/bearings/whateverthefuck built out of those new metals on top of that. It's a clusterfuck of build requirements. I like the idea of having higher tech things available, but some of the production chains are just needlessly complex, especially for basic components.
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Jul 26, 2015 06:55
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Dirk the Average posted:Are there any good mods that expand what is available without adding in absurd amounts of new resources and arbitrary building requirements? I just tried out Bob's mods after Arumba talked about them for a bit, but holy poo poo is it a grind to get loving anywhere. Not only do you need wood for basic circuits (because lord knows the best possible material to make heavy machinery components out of is wood, right?), but the second tier of circuits not only requires wood, it also requires resin (made from wood/oil), three different kinds of new ore, two different chemicals, and something like six different components. Add in to that that not only do some machines require plates of new metals, but they require gears/bearings/whateverthefuck built out of those new metals on top of that. It's a clusterfuck of build requirements. It's like watching minecraft modding all over again.
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Jul 26, 2015 09:39
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Turrets are insane now   Edit: Flame throwers are surprisingly bad. Rocket launchers are better than I remembered but still bad. Zephyrine fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 13:43
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