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emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
when you click on the bookmark in the top right corner it should just show you a list of all of your bookmarks in the current book i think.

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24-7 Urkel Cosplay
Feb 12, 2003

Grendels Dad posted:

Another theory I've seen speculates that it's about Sansa and Littlefinger because his old family sigil is a giant, or something. Not the Umber one.

The Baelish sigil is the Titan of Bravos, which could easily be called a savage giant. Or it's a doll.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Sansa and Baelish have already descended the Eyrie by the end of ADWD, I doubt the Eyrie will be visited again now that winter supposedly actually came at full blast, what's more, the Eyrie isn't really a castle made of snow, so unless Sansa visits some other location that could be aptly described as a castle made of snow it would seem that this prophecy only fits the sansa/robin 'fight' in the snow winterfell.

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
The only reasonable candidates are the castle literally built out of snow by Sansa, or Castle Black which is uhh, beloning to Jon Snow and has a giant in it? I think it's the former but no way is it Winterfell.

Iggles
Nov 24, 2004

By Jove! Commoners!

Or given that snow is falling everywhere north of the stormlands it could be most any castle now

Duckbox
Sep 7, 2007

emanresu tnuocca posted:

And anyway yes, Sweetrobin and the doll are the savage giant, not everything seen in a prophecy is always of utmost importance, for instance, Jojen's prophecy about Bran and the Walder Freys being served a dish which he will find disgusting and they will find delicious which turns out to be the rather trivial news of Stevron Frey's death.

Jojen is a bush league prophet compared to the Ghost of High Heart. Anyway, has it occurred to you that the snow castle scene might also be foreshadowing of events to come? Every single one of her other prophecies turned out to be about something incredibly important. I see the doll and the snow castle more as Martin winking at his readers "remember this?" than an actual fulfillment of the prophecy.

Also, good catch with the old Baelish sigil guys, but I wonder if that was included just to muddy the waters a little. Having it be Petyr based on a couple lines in Feast would be a little obtuse compared to the other prophecies, but if we hear a little more about Baelish's Braavos roots in this next book we'll know to be suspicious. I still say the castle made of snow is Winterfell though, both because that's what Sansa made and because its damaged and unmaintained state and the blizzard at the end of Dance mean that most of it is currently being buried in snow. Plus it was captured by Ramsay Snow. I suppose it could be a reference to Jon Snow or the Wall, or some other castle, but it definitely involves Sansa and none of the Vale castles seem to fit. My money is on it tying in with Littlefinger and his plan to use her to conquer the North.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Jojen is a greenseer just like the Ghost and everything he prophesied comes true, it's just that mostly everything he sees involved Bran, I am not sure that every prophecy has to be important, or for that matter that her seeing Sansa at the eyrie isn't important on its own, but anyway, it just occured to me that one of the Eyrie's waycastles is actually called Snow.

kcroy
May 30, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Grendels Dad posted:

Have you seen the window dressing, that window was asking for it.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011
How do you dudes even know the maid in question is Sansa?

I know she's called a 'maiden with purple serpents in her hair' or something during the prophecy about Joffrey but does the prophecy imply that the snow castle maiden is the same girl from the earlier prophecy? Whole lotta girls walking around, maybe it'll be a foreshadowing about Arya's eventual faceless man adventures

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

A Typical Goon posted:

How do you dudes even know the maid in question is Sansa?

I know she's called a 'maiden with purple serpents in her hair' or something during the prophecy about Joffrey but does the prophecy imply that the snow castle maiden is the same girl from the earlier prophecy? Whole lotta girls walking around, maybe it'll be a foreshadowing about Arya's eventual faceless man adventures

She says that it's the same maiden.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

quote:

I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow

Yup.

'castle built of snow' really sounds pretty specific to me.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.
Or maybe Sansa travels north of the Wall and slays Wun Wun in his snow castle after he revealed himself as the Night King.

Maybe.

brap
Aug 23, 2004

Grimey Drawer
The maiden with purple serpents in her hair is obviously Sansa because Sansa was wearing a hairnet with poisoned purple gems in it at Joffrey's wedding.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

fleshweasel posted:

The maiden with purple serpents in her hair is obviously Sansa because Sansa was wearing a hairnet with poisoned purple gems in it at Joffrey's wedding.

good job detective

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
The things with GRRM's prophecies is that sometimes they're allegorical but quite often they are fully literal, and to top that off there's the frequently recurring device where a prophecy is completly obvious only the character receiving said prophecy is not familiar with the characters/places they see in their visions so they interpret it differently or focus on the wrong details, that's why I think that the Ghost is basically been shown Sansa's involvement with Joffrey's assasination and is later shown that she's been ferried off to the Eyrie, both visions are 'important' though focusing on Sansa playing around with sweetrobin itself isn't. It should also be noted that almost all of the visions she sees pertain directly to the Starks (the only one that doesn't is the vision of Balon's death) and it's likely that she experiences these specific visions due to Arya's presence as Arya herself is a skinchanger and a greenseer (she talks to the old gods through the Hearttree in Harrenhal).

Obviously it's very possible I'm dead wrong and that in TWOW Sansa will murder some Umber in Snow as she's climbing up to the Eyrie again, who knows, but it seems to me that the vision is rather specific.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The things with GRRM's prophecies is that sometimes they're allegorical but quite often they are fully literal, and to top that off there's the frequently recurring device where a prophecy is completly obvious only the character receiving said prophecy is not familiar with the characters/places they see in their visions so they interpret it differently or focus on the wrong details, that's why I think that the Ghost is basically been shown Sansa's involvement with Joffrey's assasination and is later shown that she's been ferried off to the Eyrie, both visions are 'important' though focusing on Sansa playing around with sweetrobin itself isn't. It should also be noted that almost all of the visions she sees pertain directly to the Starks (the only one that doesn't is the vision of Balon's death) and it's likely that she experiences these specific visions due to Arya's presence as Arya herself is a skinchanger and a greenseer (she talks to the old gods through the Hearttree in Harrenhal).

Obviously it's very possible I'm dead wrong and that in TWOW Sansa will murder some Umber in Snow as she's climbing up to the Eyrie again, who knows, but it seems to me that the vision is rather specific.

I could be wrong because I don't have the books in front of me but the part about Balon's death reminded me, most of the prophecies are about leaders of great houses dying. Robb, Balon and Joffrey's deaths are all talked about by the Ghost and you could make the case that Lysa Arryn's death was a result of Littlefinger creeping on Sansa's snow castle

Traxus IV
Sep 11, 2001

it's our time now
let's get this shit started


A Typical Goon posted:

I could be wrong because I don't have the books in front of me but the part about Balon's death reminded me, most of the prophecies are about leaders of great houses dying. Robb, Balon and Joffrey's deaths are all talked about by the Ghost and you could make the case that Lysa Arryn's death was a result of Littlefinger creeping on Sansa's snow castle

That was my takeaway from the snow castle vision. Wasn't that when Littlefinger forces a kiss on Sansa and Lysa sees him do it? Which then sends her into a tizzy that ends in a quick jaunt out the Moon Door. I figured that was the significance of it, but then it's been a while since I read it last.


Unrelated question: How did Dondarrion recognize Catelyn's corpse when he found it in the river? Or did he just see a dead lady and was upset about it? I'm not sure that they'd ever met while either of them were alive, Beric being from the Stormlands and Cat being from the Riverlands/the North and was on the down-low when she was in King's Landing. I can't remember why he insisted she be brought back to life, or why he cared enough to do it himself when Thoros wouldn't.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

Traxus IV posted:

That was my takeaway from the snow castle vision. Wasn't that when Littlefinger forces a kiss on Sansa and Lysa sees him do it? Which then sends her into a tizzy that ends in a quick jaunt out the Moon Door. I figured that was the significance of it, but then it's been a while since I read it last.

This is true and a very valid interpetation.

24-7 Urkel Cosplay
Feb 12, 2003

Traxus IV posted:

That was my takeaway from the snow castle vision. Wasn't that when Littlefinger forces a kiss on Sansa and Lysa sees him do it? Which then sends her into a tizzy that ends in a quick jaunt out the Moon Door. I figured that was the significance of it, but then it's been a while since I read it last.


Unrelated question: How did Dondarrion recognize Catelyn's corpse when he found it in the river? Or did he just see a dead lady and was upset about it? I'm not sure that they'd ever met while either of them were alive, Beric being from the Stormlands and Cat being from the Riverlands/the North and was on the down-low when she was in King's Landing. I can't remember why he insisted she be brought back to life, or why he cared enough to do it himself when Thoros wouldn't.

He could have seen her at some point in King's Landing, or maybe the brotherhood had heard how she was murdered and saw the body of woman with a slit throat on the side of the river, seeing as there probably weren't that many women among the dead. Or maybe because the whole thing resurrection thing is divine intervention he was willed into finding her.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Harwin was with the Brotherhood and he must have recognized Cat. He's the one who asks Thoros to revive her, after all (and then Beric did it when Thoros refused).

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
It's not Beric who recognizes Cat, it's that Harwin fella who Ned sends with Beric and his band, he was the son of Winterfell's horsemaster and knew Cat for his entire life.

edit: Too slow, it seems.

Traxus IV
Sep 11, 2001

it's our time now
let's get this shit started


I had forgotten about Harwin completely, that makes sense.

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
You know why the theorycrafting about ASoIaF is more fun than it was for WoT? Everyone can come up with anything but because there's no more books we'll never know, thus this goes on for all time!

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Barristan Sey is not actually a knight. Did I just blow your minds or did we talk about this five years ago, can't remember.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


Se[lm]y isn't a knight how? The first three words after his name on the wiki disagree with you?

Ague Proof
Jun 5, 2014

they told me
I was everything

Krinkle posted:

Se[lm]y isn't a knight how? The first three words after his name on the wiki disagree with you?

Duncan was never knighted. Duncan knighted Aegon. Aegon knighted Barristan.

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.
Aegon is a royal though so he can knight people legitimately without being a proper knight himself (even though I suspect Dunk was legitimately knighted at some point later in his life, which, in-turn, would have allowed him to knight Egg).

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



In It For The Tank posted:

Aegon is a royal though so he can knight people legitimately without being a proper knight himself (even though I suspect Dunk was legitimately knighted at some point later in his life, which, in-turn, would have allowed him to knight Egg).

Wouldn't Dunk have been knighted when he joined the Kingsguard?

Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Dec 22, 2005

GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS
I thought he was knighted by the knight he squired for.

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I thought he was knighted by the knight he squired for.

No that only comes up in dialogue(ie when Dunk is lying in order to get into the Ashford tourney).

If a king can make Knights it doesn't matter as much but as it seems that knighting is really specific. They're supposed to say their vows only to the Seven (no old gods which is why you don't see any Stark get called Ser), get anointed, kneel in a vigil for however long but maybe that's just ceremony, but they definitely have to get knighted by an actual knight.

Maybe Dunk will get knighted for real later but who can he get to hook him up? Remember at this point the crown prince has been killed in a trial by combat that was premised on the belief that Ser Arlan knighted the guy, so there's a big risk in coming clean to anyone.

Which is too bad because that would be a good "oh poo poo" world breaking revelation for Barristan (maybe the ghost of hh or Bran could drop that knowledge bomb still). When the time comes it might free him enough to slay the Mad Queen Danaerys Stormborn, first of her name.

A Tasteful Nude
Jun 3, 2013

A cool anime hagrid pic (imagine nude pls)
This whole series is at its best when it takes a silly, knightly, chivalrous world and says "lol even here power is what people think is powerful - right don't matter u dum dum."

I feel like a dude who's been recognized as a sir, and made a folk hero for his deeds in that capacity, isn't gonna give too many fucks about his grumm designed lineage being wrong

the pretend people of westerworld wont give no fucks about technicalities

motherfuckin pretend b sel wont either

MyChemicalImbalance
Sep 15, 2007

Keep on smilin'



:unsmith:
I can't help but think the show has spoiled what will be an underwhelming Selmy death.

I like Dunk saying gently caress the system and living as a true knight and getting into the white book after lying about even being knighted in the first place. It plays into gurms subversion of vows and their importance in westeros, and then there's the echo with Brienne trying to do the same while living as a knight without ever taking the true vows.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



MyChemicalImbalance posted:

I can't help but think the show has spoiled what will be an underwhelming Selmy death.

I like Dunk saying gently caress the system and living as a true knight and getting into the white book after lying about even being knighted in the first place. It plays into gurms subversion of vows and their importance in westeros, and then there's the echo with Brienne trying to do the same while living as a knight without ever taking the true vows.

Dunk and Egg is the best part of this whole shitshow.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


When Jaime takes a nap on a wierwood stump is that just a random rear end wierwood stump or is that the hill where the brotherhood without banners visits the ghost of high hill? Most dreams have prophecy. He just gets a standard rear end dream where you know emotions like there is fear in that place. You do not want to go in that place.

Is the dream about him rejecting his father's wishes for him to go back to casterly rock and inherit it? Tywin says "I gave you a sword" that feels like it's meant for double meaning but besides that he eventually gives him a sword it doesn't stick out. Brienne is tossed down into the pit and specifically asks if there's a bear in there which feels so on the nose that I am going crazy trying to connect even a single other dot.

"This is your darkness" cersei says. Why would Cersei want him to feel guilty about anything?

Preston Jacobs would say that the children of the forest were using stock images in his subconscious to guilt him into acting a certain way probably. I think he doesn't even believe bloodraven exists or that he's just a proxy for the children of the forest now that he's been subsumed by the tree.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

So when is the book coming out?

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
In the year 9595, I'm kinda wonderin' if Gurm is gonna be alive.
He's taken everything this old Earth can give, and he ain't put back nothin', whoa-whoa...,

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

Krinkle posted:

When Jaime takes a nap on a wierwood stump is that just a random rear end wierwood stump or is that the hill where the brotherhood without banners visits the ghost of high hill? Most dreams have prophecy. He just gets a standard rear end dream where you know emotions like there is fear in that place. You do not want to go in that place.

Is the dream about him rejecting his father's wishes for him to go back to casterly rock and inherit it? Tywin says "I gave you a sword" that feels like it's meant for double meaning but besides that he eventually gives him a sword it doesn't stick out. Brienne is tossed down into the pit and specifically asks if there's a bear in there which feels so on the nose that I am going crazy trying to connect even a single other dot.

"This is your darkness" cersei says. Why would Cersei want him to feel guilty about anything?

Preston Jacobs would say that the children of the forest were using stock images in his subconscious to guilt him into acting a certain way probably. I think he doesn't even believe bloodraven exists or that he's just a proxy for the children of the forest now that he's been subsumed by the tree.

Dude that dream is prophetic, at least significant portions of it are. He sees Brienne and the bear in it and that's why he rides back to Harenhall.

I always interpret that dream as Jaime being killed in a cavern, by the ghosts of his enemies (lady stoneheart) with Brienne being the only one on his side, that's why I think that Jaime gets offed by the brotherhood very early in TWOW.

Junkenstein
Oct 22, 2003

MyChemicalImbalance posted:

I can't help but think the show has spoiled what will be an underwhelming Selmy death.

It's pretty likely that the TV character death GRRM bitched about before the season started was Barristan, so there's an even higher chance of him surviving now.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


emanresu tnuocca posted:

Dude that dream is prophetic, at least significant portions of it are. He sees Brienne and the bear in it and that's why he rides back to Harenhall.

I always interpret that dream as Jaime being killed in a cavern, by the ghosts of his enemies (lady stoneheart) with Brienne being the only one on his side, that's why I think that Jaime gets offed by the brotherhood very early in TWOW.

I went googling for interpretations on this as soon as I posted that, instead of going to bed, and someone made the point that everyone except cersei going back up the stairs was known to have died later, they were all ghostly glowing so Jaime will outlive cersei. When he touches Brienne "she's warm" so the darkness is life and the world and the words she keeps repeating will have double meaning when standing in front of stoneheart and if the word that saves her life turned out to have been Sword then she says it about six times here.

I don't know what sword-candle-fire-is-your-life could mean, though.

And I think the word that saves her life is stannis, or did before she shows up and steals jaime, so probably it was just "okay".

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Zephyrine
Jun 10, 2014

This is what meat is supposed to be like, dingus
I'm currently listening through the audiobooks. They were great from 1-3 but for 4-5 and the voice actor has gone complete bonkers.

He gave Daenerys a the voice normally used for small thin and feeble men.

The same voice was given to Arya

Little finger used to share a voice with Varys and that worked out well but then little finger got a generic voice instead.

Jaime Lannister and the knight of flowers literally had their voices switched which made their conversation pretty awkward. (Jaime gets his voice back later)

In the scene where Daenerys watches over a fighting pit the voice actor literally switches Strong Belwas voice to "small thin, feeble man" and then all of a sudden has the voice of Davos Seaworth before going back to "small man"

Also the pronunciations are all over the place. He pronounces Targaryen at least three different ways and sometimes Brienne is pronounced "Brian"

Surely there must be enough money involved in the making of these for a voice actor to warrant listening to the previous book to get a reminder on what sounds like what?

or at least someone listening through it and going "We're not paying for this until you redo these lines"

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