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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Aren't his missing teeth because he contracted syphilis? Both Hornblower and Master and Commander stopped due to cost more than interest. So even if we did get more, I'd fear it would be really lovely and green-screened everywhere.
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Jul 21, 2015 11:53
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i81icu812 posted:So what is the best way to get the full series of these books? I know the full hardcover print has some unfortunate typos: http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels-volumes/dp/039306011X http://www.foliosociety.com/category/9609/patrick-o-brian-offer Oh god I want these - Folio Society hardbacks of the entire series
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Jul 21, 2015 12:25
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Duckbag posted:There is so much vague implication and obtuse jargon in Maturin's descriptions of people and events that I often feel like I'm missing something important that I just can't place. Sometimes I figure it out eventually, sometimes I have to wait for him to talk to Jack about it, and sometimes he gets to keep his secrets. Normally, I let the arcane medical chatter wash over me the same way I handle the more inscrutable descriptions of fouled leads and flying tops'l yards (or whatever), but sometimes I feel like I really should be looking up some of these terms he's using. I probably would have realized Jack had chronic constipation a little earlier if I'd known what "costive" meant. A lot of meaning and subtext is hidden in plain sight when Maturin talks foreign. I found it very helpful to have this open alongside: http://www.agbfinebooks.com/Publications/Perp2004/Classic/Right%20Frame.htm Owlkill posted:http://www.foliosociety.com/category/9609/patrick-o-brian-offer Oh god I want these - Folio Society hardbacks of the entire series Very nice looking (although I would have loved the original dust jacket illustrations), but there is no way I can justify buying the series a fourth time, even less at this price. Decius fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 13:57
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Duckbag posted:There is so much vague implication and obtuse jargon in Maturin's descriptions of people and events that I often feel like I'm missing something important that I just can't place. Sometimes I figure it out eventually, sometimes I have to wait for him to talk to Jack about it, and sometimes he gets to keep his secrets. Normally, I let the arcane medical chatter wash over me the same way I handle the more inscrutable descriptions of fouled leads and flying tops'l yards (or whatever), but sometimes I feel like I really should be looking up some of these terms he's using. For nautical terminology, if it matters to the story then someone will come along and explain it to Stephen (i.e. you).
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Jul 21, 2015 14:24
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Decius posted:A lot of meaning and subtext is hidden in plain sight when Maturin talks foreign. I found it very helpful to have this open alongside: http://www.agbfinebooks.com/Publications/Perp2004/Classic/Right%20Frame.htm This looks like a killer resource. I'm definitely gonna keep it handy for my next read through the series 
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Jul 21, 2015 14:32
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withak posted:For nautical terminology, if it matters to the story then someone will come along and explain it to Stephen (i.e. you). And if they don't, there's always this.
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Jul 21, 2015 14:43
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withak posted:For nautical terminology, if it matters to the story then someone will come along and explain it to Stephen (i.e. you). Oh I know, and that's why I don't really worry about still not knowing what "hawsers" are (don't tell me, I enjoy the mystery). Plus he's gradually explained enough of it that if I reread the early books I think I'd have a much clearer view of the action and that's neat. Likewise, it would be nice if I were sufficiently erudite to get all of the multi-lingual jokes and literary allusions buried in the prose (Maturin sometimes literally speaks in riddles), but I recognize that that's basically impossible for anyone not named Patrick O'Brian and I feel like relying on a reference book would impact the sense of discovery that makes these books so special. I might start looking more things up when I inevitably do a second read through, but for now I think I'll just muddle through, even if that means not knowing precisely what diseases these sailors are getting or what Maturin is getting at when he speaks French. C'est la vie.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:02
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Duckbag posted:Oh I know, and that's why I don't really worry about still not knowing what "hawsers" are (don't tell me, I enjoy the mystery). Plus he's gradually explained enough of it that if I reread the early books I think I'd have a much clearer view of the action and that's neat. Likewise, it would be nice if I were sufficiently erudite to get all of the multi-lingual jokes and literary allusions buried in the prose (Maturin sometimes literally speaks in riddles), but I recognize that that's basically impossible for anyone not named Patrick O'Brian and I feel like relying on a reference book would impact the sense of discovery that makes these books so special. I might start looking more things up when I inevitably do a second read through, but for now I think I'll just muddle through, even if that means not knowing precisely what diseases these sailors are getting or what Maturin is getting at when he speaks French. C'est la vie. This really is the best way to do it. I've probably gushed about this before, but these books have the rare distinction of being excellent on the first read through, but getting better on each further one. The first time through I was as clueless as Stephen about things like the weather gage and felt his confusion whenever anything nautical was mentioned, but by later readings you can personally relate to Jack's incomprehension when Stephen doesn't even know the basics of rank or the difference between a ship and a sloop. And yet, because of how well written it is, it's still enjoyable to experience from both perspectives.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:45
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Owlkill posted:http://www.foliosociety.com/category/9609/patrick-o-brian-offer Oh god I want these - Folio Society hardbacks of the entire series Those are beauties but definitely can't justify the cost in money or already-limited shelf space. Could buy just one to fondle, but that sounds like a risky proposition as well... I'd just end up wanting the rest. Looks like some of the later books are sold out, do TFS do reprints?
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Jul 22, 2015 19:24
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The Master and Commander film, while not 100% faithful, got so much of the look and the feel of the characters right that it would be very hard to make an extended small-screen version that lived up. Such a drat shame they didn't make more of those movies.Duckbag posted:I seem to recall some of the action in the earliest Hornblower books being pretty drat stupid, actually. I remember one of the stories, "The Spanish Galleys," involved him taking a ship with like four guys and a "daring" plan that didn't make any sense. The galley's huge crew just sits around like scenery while the initial fighting is going on and then they meekly surrenders for no good reason. At several points, the Spanish could have just shot him, but they didn't because that would have put Forrester out of a job. The Hornblower books are usually much better than that, but you have to accept that some of Hornblower's brilliant plans only succeed because his opponents are complete morons. Hornblower is still a fun character though. My favorite book is the one where he's on trial for trying to kill his captain and we're never entirely sure if he pushed him down that hatch or not he totally did. Sorry to keep going with the Hornblower chat. I had a huge argument with my brother about that hatch/captain incident after we'd watched the show version. He did in my opinion, my brother disagreed. Hornblower is all about taking insane risks if according to his neurotic perspective they are the 'right' thing to do. I see where everyone's coming from on the unlikeable side, but you're not supposed to really like everything about him - he's a smart, fairly sensitive but emotionally crippled man who does really well at everything while hating himself - it's known precisely because it's such an unlikely combination (not one which ever occurs in real life, in my experience).
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Jul 24, 2015 13:40
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Yeah, to me the hatch incident is consistent with one of the (chronologically) earliest stories where he's tired of living under the tyranny of the complete bastard who runs the Midshipman's berth and contrives an excuse to duel him over a minor public slight. He didn't really have any sort of brilliant plan, he'd just rather die than put up with any more poo poo. He really only survives because he gets lucky. It's stuff like that that makes him such an interesting character.
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Jul 25, 2015 03:47
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Genghis Cohen posted:The Master and Commander film, while not 100% faithful, got so much of the look and the feel of the characters right that it would be very hard to make an extended small-screen version that lived up. Such a drat shame they didn't make more of those movies. I haven't read that book, but I just watched the series and imo no one pushed the captain. But according to the guy who wrote his non-canonical biography, Hornblower pushed him.
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Jul 25, 2015 16:46
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Sir, that is an insult! My friends shall wait upon you.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:53
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Tomorrow dawn at the Gas Chamber. And the weapons:
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Jul 26, 2015 17:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcE4RxDWUHk
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Jul 26, 2015 19:36
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Jul 26, 2015 19:57
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I read a passage recently that describes babbington's choice in women and one of the women he pursued was a Chinese lady that weighs 16 stone. People were shorter back then so this lady was a butterball.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:17
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Molybdenum posted:I read a passage recently that describes babbington's choice in women and one of the women he pursued was a Chinese lady that weighs 16 stone. People were shorter back then so this lady was a butterball. 16 stone is heavy in any era, but it's a myth that everyone was shorter.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:41
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No it isn't. It's just that people confuse "average height" with "everyone's height." The nobility and anyone else who was relatively healthy and well-fed was about the same height as they are now, but malnutrition and childhood diseases did tend to stunt the growth of many.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:59
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No (well sort of):quote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#History_of_human_height And not much has changed in China.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:28
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Actually, average height in China has grown hugely in the past 30 years (as much as 6 cm by some measures), but that may have more to do with a recovery from the famines of the mid-century period. I'm not sure how it compares with Chinese height in the 19th century, but they had their share of famine and privation in that era too. The 1810-11 famine is believed to have killed millions, but Babbington's girlfriend would have been an adult by then and the 18th century seems to have been a somewhat more prosperous time for China and she may have been an outlier in any case so who knows how tall she was, really?
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Jul 27, 2015 02:26
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China's pretty big, most famines were regional. Also; class differences. Also by the early 19th century there were lots of Chinese people living in other places, like every Chinese character in the novels.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:30
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They don't got to the mainland, but don't they visit islands in the South China Sea a couple times?
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Jul 27, 2015 04:38
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Yeah they visit communities with Chinese Diaspora minorities in what is now Indonesia, but they never get up towards Canton (Guangdong). Nutmeg does stop in Canton on the way back to Java but Jack and Stephen transfer to Surprise before that.
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Jul 27, 2015 06:07
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In my experience/layman's knowledge, the southern, Cantonese-speaking Chinese, which is where the Chinese population of Malaysia, Indonesia etc originate from, are significantly shorter than the northern Chinese. I was taught in school it was because white rice, as a staple rather than grain, was less nutritious. Who knows. The point is a 16-stone woman, short or tall, is pretty loving bulky. For the non-Brits among us, that is 224 lbs. Babbington rules. "No, they are all Lesbians sir" " - and I expect they are all parsons daughters, or your cousins in the third degree, like that wench off Ceylon?" . . . "So you see, sir, I am blameless in thought word and deed. Well, word and deed, anyway."
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Jul 27, 2015 16:59
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Genghis Cohen posted:In my experience/layman's knowledge, the southern, Cantonese-speaking Chinese, which is where the Chinese population of Malaysia, Indonesia etc originate from, are significantly shorter than the northern Chinese. I was taught in school it was because white rice, as a staple rather than grain, was less nutritious. Who knows. The point is a 16-stone woman, short or tall, is pretty loving bulky. For the non-Brits among us, that is 224 lbs. I liked how when he rescued the women from the pirates, some of them didn't want to leave their new pirate husbands.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:04
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I just got a copy of a companion cookbook from Amazon today: Lobscouse and Spotted Dog: Which It's a Gastronomic Companion to the Aubrey/Maturin Novels and it is fantastic. The recipes seem well-researched and translated into modern ingredients, measures and methods... where applicable. I've only had a chance to skim through it but it is entertaining to read.
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Jul 29, 2015 00:35
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Please continue posting when you have tried the recipes!
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Jul 29, 2015 01:14
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If anyone is curious as to what Aubrey's Nile medal looked like: http://www.historicmedals.com/viewItem.php?no=1018&b=2&img=A Silver ones were for junior officers.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:30
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Murgos posted:If anyone is curious as to what Aubrey's Nile medal looked like: http://www.historicmedals.com/viewItem.php?no=1018&b=2&img=A The medallion bears an image of a person holding a giant medallion bearing the image of the subject of the medallion.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:48
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Duckbag posted:Oh I know, and that's why I don't really worry about still not knowing what "hawsers" are (don't tell me, I enjoy the mystery). Which it's a bloody great rope about 18" wide mate, cable-layed which is anticlockwise or as some says widdershins, but however is called a hawser and never a cable, and which you'd know already if you wasn't the great dutch-built lubber of the world.
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Jul 29, 2015 08:38
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I've got the cookbook too, I particularly like the drink recipes like negus and flip.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:37
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withak posted:The medallion bears an image of a person holding a giant medallion bearing the image of the subject of the medallion. It's even better when you realize that Nelson (the subject) designed them and paid for them out of his own pocket.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:09
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Murgos posted:It's even better when you realize that Nelson (the subject) designed them and paid for them out of his own pocket. Nelson was remarked by some of his contemporaries (eg the Duke of Wellington) to be almost unbelievably vainglorious and self-obsessed when talking about his public image and reputation, to the extent that it would completely conceal his abilities until someone started to talk about war.
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Jul 30, 2015 20:05
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Economic Sinkhole posted:I just got a copy of a companion cookbook from Amazon today: Lobscouse and Spotted Dog: Which It's a Gastronomic Companion to the Aubrey/Maturin Novels and it is fantastic. The recipes seem well-researched and translated into modern ingredients, measures and methods... where applicable. I've only had a chance to skim through it but it is entertaining to read. Make the raspberry shrub. Use raspberry puree (available at any decent homebrew store). Let it age for four to six months (the one week in the book is a flaming lie). Serve to friends, especially lady friends. Watch the drink quickly become a staple of your parties. Just take my old roommate's advice to heart. "I found out last night you aren't supposed to drink shrub by the pint".
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Aug 2, 2015 20:08
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I will have to try making one of the shrubs soon, but I just put a drowned baby in the pot. Excited to pull it out in a few hours and see what the rage is all about. I mean it's basically a desert where the whole thing is made out of pie crust, so i am not sure how it could go wrong.
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Aug 7, 2015 03:40
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VendoViper posted:I will have to try making one of the shrubs soon, but I just put a drowned baby in the pot. Excited to pull it out in a few hours and see what the rage is all about. I mean it's basically a desert where the whole thing is made out of pie crust, so i am not sure how it could go wrong. If you're going to use a Papin's digester, for God's sake don't put a smoothing iron on the safety valve to make it cook faster.
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Sep 3, 2015 06:38
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Also, I just finished "Blue at the Mizzen" for about the 5th time, and it's still as bittersweet as it ever was, knowing that there were no books after that, but also knowing that Aubrey got his flag, and it appeared that Christine Wood was waiting for Stephen back in England. (Also, yes, I know there's "Twenty One", but I don't count that. A partially written book fleshed out by notes is good to get a sense of the overall plot, but not all the delightful layers of prose that O'Brien was so good at bringing.)
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Sep 3, 2015 06:41
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CarterUSM posted:Also, I just finished "Blue at the Mizzen" for about the 5th time, and it's still as bittersweet as it ever was, knowing that there were no books after that, but also knowing that Aubrey got his flag, and it appeared that Christine Wood was waiting for Stephen back in England. (Also, yes, I know there's "Twenty One", but I don't count that. A partially written book fleshed out by notes is good to get a sense of the overall plot, but not all the delightful layers of prose that O'Brien was so good at bringing.) Still haven't bothered with "Twenty One". Blue at the Mizzen ends everything well, and if I never read "Twenty One" I can pretend that they're still out there somewhere, sailing along.
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Sep 3, 2015 16:34
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I read it - interesting enough plot points, but as people said, not truly fleshed out. I definitely respect people's choice to leave it at 20. The news of the flag is just a really good natural ending point. The books are about Aubrey and Maturins' careers and lives, ultimately, not a particular battle or conflict, so it's nice to imagine that's in some ways the end of their middle age and the independent commissions.
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Sep 3, 2015 17:00
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