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Great episode, but based on the preview I'm rooting for a Jinho Kyungran win next. It'll be an uphill struggle, but I'd love to see them make an aggressive move together that works out.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:02
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:01 |
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This is the best show on the planet.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:22
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That's it. gently caress it. I want Tittydog to win it all. Holy poo poo. Besides the joint win, and besides solving monorail, just look at that Spy vs. Spy action. Jungmoon unknowingly hosed up and got suspected anyway and didn't have a great reason to betray besides being terrible. Tittydog had the joint-win motivation and fully evaded suspicion EVEN AFTER he made a move contrary to what "his side" wanted. I'm not kidding myself about Jungmoon going anytime soon, though. She's too selfish and bratty to get herself into the position of an individual loss. I hope Changyeop is having fun watching this.
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Aug 6, 2015 05:47
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Kyunghoon is totally gonna win this season. Deserves to, as well. I am ridiculously bored of Dongmin playing the 'do what I say I can't tell you why' role all the time. Some of it is probably editing but Hungmin, Jinho and Kyungran are all way too willing to just go along with him.
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Aug 6, 2015 06:01
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Nondevor posted:Tittydog's deduction skills are surprisingly good. I'm liking his new detective role, and honestly he's been outplaying a bunch of people. If only he would stop messing up big plays though... but then that wouldn't make him Tittydog I guess.   Mentality King, at least you had some good plays this season. Preview spoilers: Are we finally getting the Dongmin/Hyungmin vs Jinho/Kyungran matchup next week?! 
Can Of Worms fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 06:02
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Tittygod: I will get revenge for sangmin and send junseok to the deathmatch! Tittygod: ok junseok, here is how you win the deathmatch props to everyone who said "gently caress jungmoon" last week and major props to that one guy who said tittygod was feigning incompetence after wk 3. remaining player tiers dongmin = junseok > hyunmin > tittygod > kyungran = jinho >>>>>> jungmoon
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Aug 6, 2015 06:03
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Why did you unspoiler the biggest spoiler?
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Aug 6, 2015 06:04
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Can Of Worms posted:I believe you'll find that Tittydog didn't mess up any big plays this game. Yeah, if it wasn't obvious I hadn't finished the episode at that point.  I really hope the previews aren't lying again. I want a huge Jinho-Kyungran win...
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Aug 6, 2015 06:05
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CommaToes posted:Why did you unspoiler the biggest spoiler? 
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Aug 6, 2015 06:09
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^^^ No worries, I just found it funny that you spoilered your commentary and unspoiled the actual result. ^^^ S4E6: Kyunghoon's been my sleeper hit pretty much all season. He has been constantly hilarious with his sandbagging and really smart when he needs to be. Plus, he kept breaking into english this episode and I always enjoy that on Korean shows. Very nice joint win, but yeah, there are a few people who need to step it up and take control before they're swept under the rug. S4E7 Preview: Now this episode looks like it may begin with the power struggle. Let the games begin.
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Aug 6, 2015 06:12
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the talent deficit posted:Kyunghoon is totally gonna win this season. Deserves to, as well.
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Aug 6, 2015 06:13
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Part of me still wonders if he actually just messed up and then was just like "oh yeah, I was acting" again...
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Aug 6, 2015 07:30
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I actively hate Jungmoon so hard now. Those 5 minutes of the episode where she was whining and begging the person she was ACTIVELY BETRAYING to please give her a garnet to save her were just insufferable. I was so mad when he caved, too. She spent the whole episode betraying Junseok's team and trying to make him lose, and he's saved her butt how many times this season, now? She cannot get eliminated fast enough.
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Aug 6, 2015 07:48
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Kyunghoon is going to get offers for parts in a KDrama based off this season
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Aug 6, 2015 09:00
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Jungmoon needs to go, and will probably be the "safe" pick for death match if it comes to that. You could see that on everyone's faces when she started begging for a garnet. I kind of agree that I'm getting tired of King Dongmin's strategies just boiling down to "do what I say." That being said, everyone that is still around is very good in their own right, and I think the game is going to be quite vicious going forward. Although, haha, Tittygod saying "I will get revenge for Sangmin by putting Junseok in the death match," and then immediately providing Junseok with the solution to the game.
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Aug 6, 2015 11:08
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Too bad about Yeonseung, Jungmoon deserved to get eliminated after her poo poo performance this week. She seems to have realized that nobody really wants to team up with her, but somehow ignores her one white knight Junseok. Last episode I could understand why she was desperate, but this episode it was just annoying... At least Yohwan begged with class. Not surprised to see tittygod do well, his strength is that he seems to be incredible social. You can tell often after the deathmatch. He might not be in the Dongmin-in-group, but he does seem to be close to Hyunmin and Kyungran, which is probably why he ended up being a spy despite Dongmin being uncertain about him. Somehow he gets away with betraying his own team to help team Dongmin win, assists Junseok to win the deathmatch and still ends up receiving all the garnets from the loser. It's incredible really. Preview:I think the reason why Kyungran was so upset last week is not just that she felt betrayed by Jungmoon, but mainly that it forced Dongmin to send her to the death match. She can't be openly angry at Dongmin for sticking to his principles, but she probably did feel very disappointed that he wouldn't save her regardless. So I'm not surprised to see her team up with Jinho and move away from Dongmin next week. She must be smart enough to realize that soon she will be the arm that is cut off...
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Aug 6, 2015 11:50
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At this point I think Dongmin is going to be in serious trouble if he gets sent to a deathmatch. He could get away with it in Season 3 because the group wasn't as good and he could psyche most of them out, but with the remaining games and players, the only match type he would have a solid chance of winning would be Poker and the only player he could really psyche out would be Jungmoon.
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Aug 6, 2015 12:05
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Luminous Obscurity posted:At this point I think Dongmin is going to be in serious trouble if he gets sent to a deathmatch. He could get away with it in Season 3 because the group wasn't as good and he could psyche most of them out, but with the remaining games and players, the only match type he would have a solid chance of winning would be Poker and the only player he could really psyche out would be Jungmoon. His spatial memory is insane so he would easily win Same Picture Hunt too. If he chooses to go against Jungmoon in Quattro, he's going to win that too. He's good at 12 Janggi (but not as good as Hyunmin). The only one he (and probabyl everyone) will struggle on is Gyul! Hap!
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Aug 6, 2015 12:27
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:
Can't see how people who are (justifiably) down on Jinho and Kyungran - though I think the latter hasn't really done that different from season 1 since she's always been a jack-of-all-trades surviving on making good alliances, which she certainly has this time around as well - keep rating Hyunmin so high. Seriously, has he done ANYTHING of note this season? The only game he 'stood out' in was 3, where basically everyone ganged up on Sangmin and his win was more incidental than anything. Outside of that episode he's been as useless as the other two in most matches and outright been outplayed a couple times including sending himself to the deathmatch by executing the fairly obvious plan for the main game terribly - Jinho has been absolutely invisible but at least he's made the best of that by consistently staying safe, and hasn't really been at much of a risk to go to a deathmatch at all. Rating him ahead of those two seems insane to me. Also I was all about criticizing Dongmin for just giving orders and expecting people to follow them previously (like when he did it to Jinho and he naturally went 'naaah' because for all he knew Dongmin was setting him up to betray his team and be the bad guy) but I don't see the complaint this game. The only person he did it to that I can remember was Kyunghoon at the end, but Kyunghoon was his spy and they didn't have time for a lengthy chat so a short order makes sense, AND it was perfectly possible if not outright easy for Kyunghoon to reason out the purpose of that move and see it'd benefit him. It's not like he would be betraying anyone he wasn't already betraying either. He was communicating fine with his actual team and they were clearly in on everything. Still, I'm hoping the others can mount a serious challenge to him next episode! E: I mean looking at the wikipedia episode charts I think it's worth noting that only two players have never gotten immunity nor gone to the deathmatch - Jungmoon (with an impressive zero wins or deathmatches so far, basically she's been a non-entity) and Jinho. Granted Jinho has won two of six games now but so has every player but Jungmoon, and they have all gone to a deathmatch anyway besides Dongmin. Jinho has been terribly unimpressive entertainment-wise and not shown any smart plays at all, BUT he's honestly been playing the social game perfectly - setting himself up with Dongmin who's dominated, kept away from attention unlike season 2 where, admittedly, he couldn't really escape it. He's not looked impressive and he's not betrayed or wronged anyone, there's basically no reason to target him. He may have gotten here by accident, maybe not, but for someone who excels at the later, more individual and smaller-alliance games and deathmatches like him, this is seriously the ideal position to be in at this point - far better than if he had a flashy win for garnets and landing on everyone's radar early on. That said he's still been boring as poo poo and unimpressive on screen so he better shape up. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 13:45
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Insurrectionist posted:Also I was all about criticizing Dongmin for just giving orders and expecting people to follow them previously (like when he did it to Jinho and he naturally went 'naaah' because for all he knew Dongmin was setting him up to betray his team and be the bad guy) but I don't see the complaint this game. The only person he did it to that I can remember was Kyunghoon at the end, but Kyunghoon was his spy and they didn't have time for a lengthy chat so a short order makes sense, AND it was perfectly possible if not outright easy for Kyunghoon to reason out the purpose of that move and see it'd benefit him. It's not like he would be betraying anyone he wasn't already betraying either. He was communicating fine with his actual team and they were clearly in on everything. His recruitment pitch to Jungmoon was basically, Do what I say and don't ask questions. If he's acting that way to Jinho or someone like that it's a bit annoying. With Jungmoon, she was basically in the doghouse and he could get away with it. That said, although he recruited her as a spy, did he do anything to keep her from being last place? Doesn't seem like she got a very good deal out of it...
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Aug 6, 2015 14:04
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Fast Luck posted:His recruitment pitch to Jungmoon was basically, Do what I say and don't ask questions. If he's acting that way to Jinho or someone like that it's a bit annoying. With Jungmoon, she was basically in the doghouse and he could get away with it. That said, although he recruited her as a spy, did he do anything to keep her from being last place? Doesn't seem like she got a very good deal out of it... I guess but I see spies differently, they gotta earn their trust, letting them in on everything can work out but it can also just hand the other team your strategy if you picked the wrong spy. As for the latter, I was surprised by that too, but more that she didn't beg the winning team's players for garnets. I guess due to the totals, it was easier to get from Junseok (leaving three of them at 6, conveniently) but it still felt weird to me. Of course, Dongmin had a really good reason not to give her gems since anyone on their team doing so would ruin the combined win. So no wonder he wouldn't want to.
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Aug 6, 2015 14:14
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Insurrectionist posted:I guess but I see spies differently, they gotta earn their trust, letting them in on everything can work out but it can also just hand the other team your strategy if you picked the wrong spy. Well one thing everybody seems to be forgetting is that they had previously agreed to split the two garnets for her agreeing not to go Begger herself. So basically what happened is what they agreed would happen she just got super paranoid that he was going to renege on that.
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Aug 6, 2015 14:27
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Symbolic Butt posted:Tittydog was super good this episode but I gotta say that his reasoning for taking revenge on Junseok made zero sense lol What made that perfect was him rubberbanding back and giving Junseok the total solution to the game right afterwards
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Aug 6, 2015 14:55
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Zythrst posted:Well one thing everybody seems to be forgetting is that they had previously agreed to split the two garnets for her agreeing not to go Begger herself. So basically what happened is what they agreed would happen she just got super paranoid that he was going to renege on that. Yeah, I was already disliking Junseok but once he was seriously considering not honoring the arrangement I really started to hate him. I was rooting for Mentality King, but Junseok happened to go to the right guy for strategy. Kyunghoon definitely made some Sangmin level plays this episode, he was an undetected spy, gave one person on his team a perfect strategy, and got the garnets of the person he helped eliminate. He's been using that troll and idiot rep of his extremely well too, it's what helped him eliminate Sangmin and again it helped him here. I'm still rooting for Dongmin, Jinho or Kyungran above all others, but at the very least Tittygod isn't my most hated player now. I actually like Jungmoon more than most as well, but if she doesn't make a decent play next episode I think even my patience will have run out. Also, I don't usually quote myself, but... NowonSA after episode 3 posted:I've hated Tittygod all along for wrecking games, but with that deathmatch performance I'm at least open to the idea that he's Keyser Sozeing everyone and trying to appear comically inept while really making plays that ultimately use others for his own gain.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:34
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I think it's established right, that Dongmin is the best Genius player we've seen? He's slightly below Hyunmin and Jinho in terms of game strategy (though not significantly; and perhaps is equal to Jinho in the current season), but his social game, intuition, memory, and magic hands more than make up for that.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:41
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NowonSA posted:Yeah, I was already disliking Junseok but once he was seriously considering not honoring the arrangement I really started to hate him. Jungmoon was awful this episode and basically flat out revealed that she wasn't on their team. I could see why Junseok didn't really want Jungmoon to do anything. Why he didn't pick her in the deathmatch, I'll never know.
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Aug 6, 2015 17:47
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Insurrectionist posted:Can't see how people who are (justifiably) down on Jinho and Kyungran - though I think the latter hasn't really done that different from season 1 since she's always been a jack-of-all-trades surviving on making good alliances, which she certainly has this time around as well - keep rating Hyunmin so high. Seriously, has he done ANYTHING of note this season? The only game he 'stood out' in was 3, where basically everyone ganged up on Sangmin and his win was more incidental than anything. Outside of that episode he's been as useless as the other two in most matches and outright been outplayed a couple times including sending himself to the deathmatch by executing the fairly obvious plan for the main game terribly - Jinho has been absolutely invisible but at least he's made the best of that by consistently staying safe, and hasn't really been at much of a risk to go to a deathmatch at all. Rating him ahead of those two seems insane to me. hyunmin is still cool: He's taken a back seat in S4 compared to S3, but he's still demonstrating sound knowledge of game theory and is the best strategist on the show (except maybe Junseok). Hyunmin dictated the main match in weeks 1-4 and very well could have resulted in a boring "hyunmin figures it out, main match is a foregone conclusion" if not for Junseok. S4 jinho sucks: The game theory mastery in S4 is lightyears beyond anything he faced in S1 or S2. S1/S2 main matches were learning experiences where the players hadn't seen the games before and jinho shines there, but in S4 the other players have already devised fleshed out strategies and counterplays - his role has been reduced to a puppet controlled by stronger players. Jinho's best move this season has been allying with Dongmin (in terms of rankings, hyunmin's relationship with dongmin is much stronger) and the most screentime Jinho has had this season is pregame banter/getting wrecked in Yutnori. Agreed king dongmin is growing stale and hope the S1 players can challenge him
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Aug 6, 2015 18:06
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NowonSA posted:Yeah, I was already disliking Junseok but once he was seriously considering not honoring the arrangement I really started to hate him. That's really silly. She was actively betraying him the entire game and doing an incredibly poor job of concealing it. He'd have had every right to keep his garnet at that point. If anything, Junseok's soft spot for Jungmoon seems like a major weakness of his.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:11
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Hey, I didn't say it makes sense, I'm just under Jungmoon's spell.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:22
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Okay, so having stumbled on this thread at random, am I to understand that this is Liar Game, the show? because holy poo poo, if so
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Aug 6, 2015 18:56
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DolphinCop posted:Okay, so having stumbled on this thread at random, am I to understand that this is Liar Game, the show? Yes and it owns and you should watch the best show on Television.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:58
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Fight Club Sandwich posted:hyunmin is still cool: Bullshit. Sangmin ruled the first two matches entirely on his own and Hyunmin barely did anything. Hyunmin was completely outplayed in episode 4 and one of the worst players in that main match, like I seriously can't see how that can even be argued. Episode 3 he was alright but nothing special and the main game ended up being a bizarre parody of most due to Sangmin and Kyunghoon's involvement even before Junseok interrupted.
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Aug 6, 2015 20:24
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People keep saying Kyunghoon solved monorail but I've been looking at his suggested opening move and I'm reasonably certain that given perfect play, its a player 2 win.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:12
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Blue Star Error posted:People keep saying Kyunghoon solved monorail but I've been looking at his suggested opening move and I'm reasonably certain that given perfect play, its a player 2 win. Yep, I think whoever puts down the 4th tile is guaranteed a win. Junseok's opening results in only one possible winning line, using all 16 tiles. Whoever puts down the 4th tile wins, because then they get to put down the 8th tile, which lets them put down the 12th tile, which forces a win. Player 1 - 3 tiles Player 2 - 1 tile Player 1 - 1-3 tiles Player 2 - ...8th tile Player 1 - 1-3 tiles Player 2 - ...12th tile Player 1 - 1-3 tiles Player 2 - conplete rail
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Aug 6, 2015 21:32
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Sure, but if Yeonseung deviates from the line at all, which he would, since he doesn't know the path, Junseok could call impossible.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:50
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qbert posted:Yep, I think whoever puts down the 4th tile is guaranteed a win. Not true: It's possible for Player 1 to win leaving 2 tiles for Player 2, so long as that the 2 tiles are not connected.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:55
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Pretty sure we weren't discussing what actually happened, but rather how viable that line is for a starting player in an abstract sense.N posted:Not true: It's possible for Player 1 to win leaving 2 tiles for Player 2, so long as that the 2 tiles are not connected. qbert fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 6, 2015 |
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Aug 6, 2015 21:55
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Yeah, but the line seems super simple to me, just do bends until it loops around on the bottom and then go straight, one bend, straight, bend into station. And that's just one of multiple possible paths. I figured it was solveable just by eyeballing it, but if I had all the pieces in front of me I'm reasonably sure I could confirm that in the moment. I don't know that I'd be able to route myself a sure-fire win in his situation though, if there even is one with the possibility of playing out 1 tile at a time on places like the curves. I think that opening is still a strong turn 1 play though, it's a pretty good strategy to rattle the opponent and you have an advantage if you have the route in mind and have already thought about it. You're then basically playing a number game only, while they're playing a number and spatial awareness game. You also start mind-gaming people into thinking "If it is impossible and I play down some tiles, will he just declare it impossible right after my move" which I felt was a big factor in Yeon's decision. You're probably best served as player 2 starting to build from the other end with a number count in mind.
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Aug 6, 2015 21:58
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qbert posted:Yep, I think whoever puts down the 4th tile is guaranteed a win. I'm not 100% sure your system works, or at least, I can follow your moves and come out with a player 1 win if you aren't careful about where the tiles are placed. If player 1 leaves you with 3 in an L shape for you final turn you're screwed. There is more than one possible winning line, as there are multiple configurations for the 2x3 area in the bottom left, everything else is set in stone though. Assuming all the other neccessary pieces are in place, that 2x3 rectangle is a win for whoever's turn it is, so the game becomes "who can make sure they aren't the last to complete the neccessary pieces", which player 2 can ensure by playing the horizontal line [straight, straight, upbend] at 1,3 (0,0 being the left square of the station). I thought maybe player 1 could get a win by ignoring the neccessary pieces and trying to fudge something with that 2x3 area before the end but whatever move they make player 2 has a winning strategy.
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Aug 6, 2015 22:00
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The assumption that as a 2nd mover, you can play such that the sum of tiles is 4 is not valid, since there exists situations where it is impossible to play 3 tiles in a row. When only two unconnected tiles are left, you have won.
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Aug 6, 2015 22:14
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