|
Madkal posted:One thing that I got from that book was that Kirby started saying that Spiderman was his idea and the entire industry kind of gave off a "are you joking here" look. Has there ever been verification into the claim though? If not, why would Kirby have to claim that when he can already accurately claim to creating (or co-creating) stuff like Hulk, Captain America, Hulk etc? He did at least do a character design that they decided not to go with. I remember reading that the web-shooter in Kirby's version was a pistol that Spidey would use. It was Ditko who moved the webs to the hands.
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
Kirby was senile as hell by the time he started claiming he'd created everything in the Marvel Universe and that Stan Lee spent his days crying in corners.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 18:43
|
|
|
It's possible that the germ for the idea that became Spider-man came up in conversation between Stan and Jack and I remember reading that Jack did an original design for him that Stan didn't think fit the character, then gave it to Ditko and he came up with what we know of today. Still just coming up with the idea of something doesn't mean much since the execution of it was done by Lee and Ditko.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 18:54
|
|
|
Madkal posted:One thing that I got from that book was that Kirby started saying that Spiderman was his idea and the entire industry kind of gave off a "are you joking here" look. Has there ever been verification into the claim though? If not, why would Kirby have to claim that when he can already accurately claim to creating (or co-creating) stuff like Hulk, Captain America, Hulk etc? Because Spider-Man is way bigger than the guys Kirby did create.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:04
|
|
|
Yeah a chunk of that book is devoted to pointing out that Kirby was also kind of a dick. He's been deified I the industry so long that no one really wants to say anything bad about him. He definitely got a poo poo deal and Stan Lee ruined his life, but the guy was still a Brooklyn dude from the 40s.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:16
|
|
|
As much as the golden mean is a fallacy in most cases, in Stan Lee's case it's kinda true. Yes, he's kind of a huckster and screwed people over. No, he is not Satan in a moustache and aviator shades. Yes, he claims credit for a lot of stuff that other people had a hand in or outright did without him. No, he is not a complete fraud that never contributed anything creatively to Marvel. prefect posted:He did at least do a character design that they decided not to go with. I remember reading that the web-shooter in Kirby's version was a pistol that Spidey would use. It was Ditko who moved the webs to the hands. Which is basically the same amount of work Bob Kane did for Batman, so I guess you can see why Kirby might think he had a case.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
There were a few interviews with Jack in the early 80's where he claimed to have created a few characters that were created well after he left Marvel. And to be fair, Stan Lee once claimed to have created the Punisher.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:53
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:As much as the golden mean is a fallacy in most cases, in Stan Lee's case it's kinda true. Yes, he's kind of a huckster and screwed people over. No, he is not Satan in a moustache and aviator shades. Yes, he claims credit for a lot of stuff that other people had a hand in or outright did without him. No, he is not a complete fraud that never contributed anything creatively to Marvel. And really, people downplay Lee's contributions way too much in reaction to his own self-promotion. Even if you set aside all of the collaborative stuff where you can make an argument that someone else did it (and that's really not fair since it was collaborative), Lee was absolutely amazing as an editor. His management of the entire line of books is what made Marvel stand out in the 1960's. It's telling that once Lee left for California, everything fell apart at Marvel.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
Random Stranger posted:And really, people downplay Lee's contributions way too much in reaction to his own self-promotion. Even if you set aside all of the collaborative stuff where you can make an argument that someone else did it (and that's really not fair since it was collaborative), Lee was absolutely amazing as an editor. His management of the entire line of books is what made Marvel stand out in the 1960's. It's telling that once Lee left for California, everything fell apart at Marvel. That's all behind-the-scenes stuff. This might be my favorite visible thing Stan Lee did: With "Bullpen Bulletins," Lee created the friendly, chatty editorial voice of Marvel Comics — "a style that could be characterized as High Hipster — two parts Lord Buckley, one part Austin Powers,"[1] putting "himself on a first-name basis with the readership at a time when the rival DC editors generally came across... as... stodgy adults."[2] The "Bullpen Bulletins" page was where Lee rhapsodized about the Marvel "bullpen," the stable of in-house creators who produced the company's comics. He often bestowed colorful sobriquets on Marvel staffers and creators; nicknames such as Stan "The Man" Lee and Jack "King" Kirby permeated into mass culture. The fictional Marvel staffer Irving Forbush also appeared regularly — as the butt of Lee's humor. Similarly, phrases like "Excelsior!", "'Nuff said," "True Believer," and "Make Mine Marvel," as well as other company mainstays like the No-Prize, were popularized there as well. Lee often used "Marvel Bullpen Bulletins" and "Stan's Soapbox" to needle other comic book publishers,[3] which he referred to as the "Distinguished Competition" (i.e., DC) or, more disparagingly, "Brand Echh."[4] ("Brand Echh" was a play on an advertising convention of the time, in which a competitor's product was not referred to by name, but simply as "Brand X.")[5] Splendiddio!
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Twelve Labours was a JLA sort-of crossover as well, wasn't it? Martin Pasko (?) did it when he was writing both comics at the same time. Yes, Twelve Labors is the story of Wonder Woman rejoining the Justice League, which she had quit parallel to her losing her powers and the Amazons leaving Earth in the late '60s. In Twelve Labors, she has to perform a series of feats, each overseen by a different member of the League, in order to prove to herself that she's worthy to rejoin. The thing about this story is that not even this one story was by a consistent creative team. Various issues are written by Len Wein, Cary Bates, and Elliot S! Maggin, with Pasko writing the last few issues, and subsequently taking over as the regular writer, which didn't mean much in that era, as "regular" writers generally only did a few issues at a time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 21:15
|
|
|
Looking at that Sporcle quiz list, there's a lot of writers that I never knew touched Wonder Woman that have had, admittedly short in most cases, runs. BKV and Walt Simonson are the two that stun me that they only got about one arc each.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Looking at that Sporcle quiz list, there's a lot of writers that I never knew touched Wonder Woman that have had, admittedly short in most cases, runs. BKV and Walt Simonson are the two that stun me that they only got about one arc each. And then you remember that Byrne was on the book for three godless years.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 21:45
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:And then you remember that Byrne was on the book for three godless years. Benito Cereno posted:Depending on the era, I might be able to help you out. I know much more about the '40s and '60s than I do about the '70s and '80s, though. Random Stranger posted:I don't think anyone knows anything about Wonder Woman in between the white jumpsuit and Perez. I mean, I know the comics were published, but they could have been blank inside. Well, ha ha!, that's the era I had questions about. I came across a huge chunk of WW issues from like 289 through the very last pre-Crisis issue (#329) for cheap, and I was curious if there was a primary writer/artist team from that section, good stories, blah blah. I did my Internet Research, and I saw that starting with 288 (and a preview/prequel in a DC Comics Presents issue just beforehand), DC tried to revitalize the comic with a new team of Roy Thomas and Gene Colan and make the WW comics more action-packed and exciting (the logo change kicked in here, as well). I did see that there was a 3-part story that teams Wondy up with like every female DC superhero, and that looked cool. Also, that #300 spectacular is nothing to sneeze at, it's huge. I'm sure these aren't the Greatest WW comics of All Time, but they still look pretty fun and there's still some beautiful Don Heck artwork too. Just wanted to see what others' opinions were. The website Amazon Archives has been incredibly helpful as well for background info and whatnot. I like that at the end of the last issue, there's a note to look forward to the upcoming relaunch penned by Greg Potter. Sorry, Greg! redbackground fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Aug 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:34
|
|
|
OK, that gives me a question: Is there a story behind why that relaunch didn't happen and we got the Perez version instead?
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Looking at that Sporcle quiz list, there's a lot of writers that I never knew touched Wonder Woman that have had, admittedly short in most cases, runs. BKV and Walt Simonson are the two that stun me that they only got about one arc each. Heh. Says on my "create game" page that it's been played five times today. Who wants to own up?  Man, I did more of those things than I thought. Aside from Wonder Woman, I did Flash, Spider-Man, Ultimate Marvel, the Legion, Batman, Punisher, Teen Titans, Thor, Cap, Hulk, Green Lantern, JLA, Iron Man, Daredevil, Avengers, FF, X-Men and, for some reason, WildC.A.T.S. (?). A lot of these are out a bit out of date. I actually still have a Superman one that I'm probably never going to finish (because, as mentioned above, a) DC books didn't always have "regular" writers as we'd understand them in the 1950s through the 1970s; and b) a lot of the Superman books had three stories per issue for a long time and, as far as I can tell, they would rotate writers a lot, which makes it more difficult to pick out a "lead" writer for the purposes of the quiz.) Still no idea why I decided to do that WildC.A.T.S one. I must have been running short on ideas.
|
|
#
?
Aug 12, 2015 22:59
|
|
|
redbackground posted:Well, ha ha!, that's the era I had questions about. I came across a huge chunk of WW issues from like 289 through the very last pre-Crisis issue (#329) for cheap, and I was curious if there was a primary writer/artist team from that section, good stories, blah blah. I did my Internet Research, and I saw that starting with 288 (and a preview/prequel in a DC Comics Presents issue just beforehand), DC tried to revitalize the comic with a new team of Roy Thomas and Gene Colan and make the WW comics more action-packed and exciting (the logo change kicked in here, as well). I did see that there was a 3-part story that teams Wondy up with like every female DC superhero, and that looked cool. Also, that #300 spectacular is nothing to sneeze at, it's huge. I looked to see if there was anything from that run in my best Wonder Woman stories article, but nope. It turns out I straight up have not read anything from that stretch of issues. There are certainly worse comics out there than whatever Thomas and Colan could cook up, but I'd be surprised if that team lasted for many consecutive issues. I know that's around the time the eagle was changed to the WW on her costume, but that's about it. quote:OK, that gives me a question: Is there a story behind why that relaunch didn't happen and we got the Perez version instead? The Greg Potter relaunch? We kind of did. Potter is the scripter and co-plotter on the first two issues of Perez's relaunch. If I recall correctly, Potter had some other job in addition to writing comics (advertising, maybe?) and he had to leave the book. Len Wein took over as co-writer for a little bit until Perez just wrote the whole thing himself. quote:Heh. Says on my "create game" page that it's been played five times today. Who wants to own up? I did. I think I've played most of your comics writer quizzes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
Madkal posted:If not, why would Kirby have to claim that when he can already accurately claim to creating (or co-creating) stuff like Hulk, Captain America, Hulk etc? Woah woah woah, gotta be clear here because Stan gets sole credit for this all the time: He had absolutely nothing to do with Captain America's creation. That was all Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. Gaz-L posted:Which is basically the same amount of work Bob Kane did for Batman, so I guess you can see why Kirby might think he had a case. That is vastly more work than Kane did for Batman.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 03:17
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:That is vastly more work than Kane did for Batman. Not at all! Kane totally came up with a design... that Finger made him totally change and basically told him how to do the version we still have.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 03:25
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Not at all! Kane totally came up with a design... that Finger made him totally change and basically told him how to do the version we still have.  What a beautiful abomination.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 03:33
|
|
|
Somebody post Bob Kane's gravestone because I'm a charlatan and keep forgetting to save it every time it comes up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
 Just the worst.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:16
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:
Wouldn't be shocked if he stole the wife, kids and grandkids implied there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
Senior Woodchuck posted:There was Stan Lee as Funky Flashman and Roy Thomas as his lackey HouseRoy. (I actually think HouseRoy was the nastier portrayal of the two.) I've read that and I never made the connection 
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:22
|
|
|
Black Lighter posted:Wouldn't be shocked if he stole the wife, kids and grandkids implied there. You might just be right.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 05:25
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:
I wish this costume was DLC for the Arkham games
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 07:07
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:I wish this costume was DLC for the Arkham games It's basically what the Robin costumes look like now. If Damien were blonde and the wings were a cape.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 15:19
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:
The utility belt is there, at least.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 15:57
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:
Now I want a thread that photoshops Batman into this costume in all his iconic moments.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 16:14
|
|
|
It's basically Flash Gordon with wings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 18:27
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:
Bob Kane is the ultimate troll, even in death.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Chinaman7000 posted:Now I want a thread that photoshops Batman into this costume in all his iconic moments. If I had the slightest inkling of artistic talent I'd love to draw that Bat-costume into the Year One scene where Bats breaks into the mobster dinner.
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 22:39
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:If I had the slightest inkling of artistic talent I'd love to draw that Bat-costume into the Year One scene where Bats breaks into the mobster dinner. The scene where he pees himself?
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2015 23:06
|
|
|
So this is a really specific one. When I was a kid, back in the 90s, I owned a huge comic collection. I don't remember where I got it, or when, but I do remember the thing was about half the thickness of a dictionary, maybe, and had a whole bunch of stuff in it. I'm wondering if anyone knows what the hell this thing was. I know a lot of specific info but I've had very little luck investigating this every few years when I remember it again. Aside from a single Age of Apocalypse comic a friend owned where Blink fought Holocaust, this was my first exposure to most of these comic characters. I remember there was a Superman story (probably a John Byrne one), that was the first time I'd ever seen skintones done with multiple little dots, that had Superman being interviewed by Lois Lane, that seemed to follow on from a previous issue where Superman saved "a crashing space-plane". It had such moments and Superman flying/swimming through water for some reason, and telling Lois that he didn't drink and never developed a taste for Brie. As well as dodging suspicion that he knew where she lived by him "knowing where everyone lives" in a creepy manner. There was a story with Spider-Man fighting Doctor Octopus on a nuclear submarine, it had a bunch of cool moments like Doc Ock using crude oil so Spidey couldn't stick to walls, and a lot of villain speeches. (Doc Ock also "died" at the end) There was a Hulk story where he is minding his own business in a corn field when he is abducted by a weirdo alien. I remember the alien trying to inject/dissect Bruce Banner for some reason and him Hulking out and the needle snapping. In the end, just the dirt under the Hulk's fingernails was enough to save the alien's species. There was a Batman story where he had a blue cowl/cape. It was a story where Batman, I think, encounters the scarecrow for the first time. A guy dies ... of fright and Batman tracks the culprit to an abandoned fairground or something (helpful, I know). I think the entirety of a Tintin story was in there. I want to say Tintin and the Black Island, but I maybe have read that separately later. There was also a Captain America story I don't recall much about too, as well as a fuckton of smaller, newspaper style comics. A lot of which I'm positive were never published here in the UK. Marmaduke, Funky Winkerbean, Love Is, Peanuts, Garfield, Beetle Bailey. I think it may have also had a Frank Sidebottom comic? This thing was jam-packed. I seem to recall it was made for some kind of charity concert thing, or at least had images from one in it. To the extent I'm sure it was some kind of charity thing. Maybe Live Aid, though I haven't found anything searcing for that. And while Live Aid was some time before I was even born, I'm sure I got the comic second hand, and I think it was missing pages too. I'd be interested in finding a copy, or even just knowing what the hell this was. e: There was also a Judge Dredd story where he was inside a giant pinball machine. Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
Prison Warden posted:When I was a kid, back in the 90s, I owned a huge comic collection. I don't remember where I got it, or when, but I do remember the thing was about half the thickness of a dictionary, maybe, and had a whole bunch of stuff in it. I'm wondering if anyone knows what the hell this thing was. I know a lot of specific info but I've had very little luck investigating this every few years when I remember it again. Aside from a single Age of Apocalypse comic a friend owned where Blink fought Holocaust, this was my first exposure to most of these comic characters. I don't understand. Your "huge comic collection" was "about half the thickness of a dictionary," or are you referring to one large book that was part of your collection? Do you live in Europe? American comics often reached European shores with no regard for their original publishing schedule/format. I'm not sure why stories from DC, Marvel and a bunch of other publishers would appear in the same book — assuming that's what you meant — but it's a lot less likely to have happened in America where lawyers representing those corporations would have developed giant money boners at the mere idea of such a thing. (Unless you're referring to one of the periodic company crossovers, but your description doesn't sound like that.) Edit: Is it possible that this thing was an amateur-bound collection of various stories? I don't know if that was a thing in the 90s, but it certainly is these days. ecavalli fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Aug 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 04:31
|
|
|
He's saying the book was a collection of comics, and was quite large.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Doesn't help much, but the Superman story definitely sounds like Man of Steel #2. It had an interview between Superman and Lois, the craft Superman saved in the previous issue was changed to a space plane because of the Challenger disaster, and it was written by Byrne.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 04:40
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:He's saying the book was a collection of comics, and was quite large. Yeah this. It was one big book with a whole bunch of different comics in it. I may have thought it was amateur if it weren't for the charity stuff being in it, and also, I seem to vaguely recall, the page transitions didn't always fit that. Like, you'd have a page with a couple of Garfield strips on one side and the start of a Spider-man story on the other side.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 04:44
|
|
|
WickedHate posted:Doesn't help much, but the Superman story definitely sounds like Man of Steel #2. It had an interview between Superman and Lois, the craft Superman saved in the previous issue was changed to a space plane because of the Challenger disaster, and it was written by Byrne. Yeah, the space plane bit sounds a lot like Byrne's Man of Steel mini-series. I have no idea why that'd appear alongside Tintin and Spider-Man though. Prison Warden posted:I may have thought it was amateur if it weren't for the charity stuff being in it, and also, I seem to vaguely recall, the page transitions didn't always fit that. Like, you'd have a page with a couple of Garfield strips on one side and the start of a Spider-man story on the other side. DC and Marvel occasionally allowed their characters to appear in comics to promote stuff like dental hygiene. You wouldn't happen to remember what this charity was, would you? Edit: vvv This is my guess too. An utter lack of Google search results supports this idea. ecavalli fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Aug 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
It sounds like someone got a bunch of random comics bound.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
CapnAndy posted:It sounds like someone got a bunch of random comics bound. I was going to say, it sounds like a total custom job.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2015 05:08
|
|