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imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Opop you should give vig to me

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Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


imgay posted:

Opop you should give vig to me

Who would you kill? Would you immediately kill me? Because that would be pretty funny

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back
Grimey Drawer
Between me and Taste, kill Taste.

But I think WWM has been acting weird in a scummy way, so that's my vote.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

to be clear, opop, do you think one of us is scum? Or are you itching for reads? Or just to kill someone!

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Tremendous Taste posted:

to be clear, opop, do you think one of us is scum? Or are you itching for reads? Or just to kill someone!

I think there was scum on that mission and I don't think it was mithross.

Also it will be good to kill a potato early on so I don't get confused

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

to be clear then you think that the only way it would fail is with a scum, and on top of that a scum couldn't make it fail externally?

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Opop, I would kill either taste or asiina on a whim, I can't stand both having the same avatar at this juncture

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back
Grimey Drawer
Just put Taste on ignore like I do. Problem solved.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

That's only because I said I had a gay encounter in my time

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Tremendous Taste posted:

to be clear then you think that the only way it would fail is with a scum, and on top of that a scum couldn't make it fail externally?

I suspect it was sabotaged yes. Do you have reason to believe scum can affect them from outside? How would that work?
It only make sense with a risk or as an x shot so seems stupid to waste now

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Opopanax posted:

I suspect it was sabotaged yes. Do you have reason to believe scum can affect them from outside? How would that work?
It only make sense with a risk or as an x shot so seems stupid to waste now

Well, I guess I don't buy that it was sabotaged as it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to risk outing themselves like that if the mechanic isn't integral to the game. if anything it would seem in their benefit to build up the town cred by having it succeed and grabbing the points for purchases along the way

If they aren't involved it could make sense to crash it if they think the prize to town will be considerable, but for the first challenge of the game that seems unlikely unless they think they could drive suspicion onto someone and direct the lynch that way. Note that's not meant as an accusation of you


so if it's a dumb play for scum to sabotage on the inside and at best a middling play to sabotage from the outside, i think it's just possible our party sucked. I think it's the reasonable conclusion, and the fact that asiina jumped to a different one really confuses me

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back
Grimey Drawer
I think that a scum being on the team being the reason it failed is definitely possible, but I don't know who is could be of Taste and Mithross and it's setup spec anyway. I think in thread scumhunting is more useful for the moment, and WWM has made some very strange calls that do not ring true. I want people to look at his posts and tell me if they make sense.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

on top of that, if mithross is what he says he is as a challenge monster, that sort of implies both asii and I would have to sabotage to compensate, and surely you don't think we're that dumb

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
pls kill one of them opop or let a real business man pull the trigger

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

Well, I guess I don't buy that it was sabotaged as it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to risk outing themselves like that if the mechanic isn't integral to the game. if anything it would seem in their benefit to build up the town cred by having it succeed and grabbing the points for purchases along the way

If they aren't involved it could make sense to crash it if they think the prize to town will be considerable, but for the first challenge of the game that seems unlikely unless they think they could drive suspicion onto someone and direct the lynch that way. Note that's not meant as an accusation of you


so if it's a dumb play for scum to sabotage on the inside and at best a middling play to sabotage from the outside, i think it's just possible our party sucked. I think it's the reasonable conclusion, and the fact that asiina jumped to a different one really confuses me

I don't get this post. So far everyone involved has said they didn't get any input regarding how that went down, but you seem to be implying here that scum would know they would get to submit if it succeeded or not, as evidenced by the fact that you were saying a scum would know it was a risk going into it. That's...kinda of a weird jump to make if you, as town, didn't really know what the hell was going on.

I mean Asiina's response reads far more genuine in that regard. Why are you so certain that scum would know how their involvement would make the event play out?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Quidnose posted:


I don't get this post. So far everyone involved has said they didn't get any input regarding how that went down, but you seem to be implying here that scum would know they would get to submit if it succeeded or not, as evidenced by the fact that you were saying a scum would know it was a risk going into it.
That's...kinda of a weird jump to make if you, as town, didn't really know what the hell was going on.

I mean Asiina's response reads far more genuine in that regard. Why are you so certain that scum would know how their involvement would make the event play out?

Can you rephrase the bolded?


And in any scenario, scum know what's going to happen wrt their joining a mission, I don't follow

1) scum can choose to sabotage or succeed

2) scum can only attempt to sabotage

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

those are the only possible scenarios, in fact, if we believe scum can sabotage. They would know so going in, right?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

actually, I could see another scenario outside of a town failure

if scum is *compelled* to sabotage, but was unaware, that explains joining up d1 and drawing heat


still, though, with mithross' claimed super-event powers that suggests that to compensate both asiina and I would have to be scum

if he's telling the truth it speaks to her town alignment in my eyes

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

with that I'm going to bed, I guess

it felt like more of a eureka moment than it looks once I posted it


I don't understand how you think scum choosing whether or not to sabotage would be a weird jump, quid, as that's the basis of resistance and avalon

I guess we can talk about that tomorrow!

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

OK, so first thing's first. This isn't adding up.

CapitalistPig posted:

There is still a small chance you could lose though so be careful!

Nothing about a win/fail mechanic similar to Avalon or Resistance.




Asiina posted:

I didn't even do anything via PMs. I just got a LOL U FAILED pm that was basically the same as what was just posted in the thread.

Re: the info TT got about the fight:

Tremendous Taste posted:

U tried really hard but u failed basically


So nothing there either about Avalon/Resistance mechanics. Asiina suggests that something the scum did made them fail without the Avalon connection, and Opop floats the Avalon suggestion, but I'm not seeing anything in what was shared with us by Pig or TT, Asiina, and Mithross about the mechanics of the event we just had.

Next, why TT is confusing the gently caress out of me

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

You either think scum sabotaged it or you don't


If you do, you have to think there is a sabotage mechanic

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

You're almost intentionally misinterpreting my words around to make common sense seem like the strangest thing in the world

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Like, if you think that the event failed because someone on it was scum that inherently means you think a scum person's presence fucks it up


If you think that a scum persons presence fucks it up, it's because they sabotage it


If they sabotage it, they probably have a choice, like in somber's game that pig and I were in last fall


If they don't, they know going in that they will sabotage


Find the error

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

You even acknowledge that opop has raised the same line of reasoning im working under and yet somehow act mystified I'm working under it!


It seems insincere and weird, like a supplementary gotcha off of the event failure

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

I didn't think she was freaking out, just that it was a relatively illogical move. I didn't really assume it had to have failed because of scum. It's not like Avalon,where it's clear that scum need them to fail, so why would they stick their necks out at all?

It read to me like overcompensation, playing up the failure more so than I felt about it

Taste here first mentions that he is certain what happened wasn't influenced by scum saboteurs. This is weird to me, because all the information we have been given in thread by CPig, Mithross, Asiina, and TT himself before this stated they got zero information about the mechanics of that event. But TT is certain here that it wasn't a sabotage mechanic. That is very strange.

Tremendous Taste posted:

Well, I guess I don't buy that it was sabotaged as it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to risk outing themselves like that if the mechanic isn't integral to the game. if anything it would seem in their benefit to build up the town cred by having it succeed and grabbing the points for purchases along the way

If they aren't involved it could make sense to crash it if they think the prize to town will be considerable, but for the first challenge of the game that seems unlikely unless they think they could drive suspicion onto someone and direct the lynch that way. Note that's not meant as an accusation of you


so if it's a dumb play for scum to sabotage on the inside and at best a middling play to sabotage from the outside, i think it's just possible our party sucked. I think it's the reasonable conclusion, and the fact that asiina jumped to a different one really confuses me

I already questioned him on this but I really dislike this post because it's setup spec on a theory he has already completely dismissed. If TT is so certain there is no sabotage happening why spend all these words discussing the possibility of it and what scum would do with it if it existed? That's incredibly weird.

This, however, is the damning piece to me:

Tremendous Taste posted:

Can you rephrase the bolded?


And in any scenario, scum know what's going to happen wrt their joining a mission, I don't followp/b]

1) scum can choose to sabotage or succeed

2) scum can only attempt to sabotage

What? Where did this come from? What, in thread, and in the innocuous PM responses that Asiina told us said nothing and TT corroborated is what he received, leads us to believe that scum knew how the event was going to work? To me it's just as likely it was a small RNG failure that they happened to hit but TT is first CERTAIN it's not a sabotage mechanic, then CERTAIN the scum know how it works. What? What? How? Am I missing something?

[b]##vote TT
scumslip if I ever saw one.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

I'm gonna try to sleep for real, it's 3:00 am :(

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

those are the only possible scenarios, in fact, if we believe scum can sabotage. They would know so going in, right?

This immediate followup looks a shitton like "oh gently caress I said too much time to cover"

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

actually, I could see another scenario outside of a town failure

if scum is *compelled* to sabotage, but was unaware, that explains joining up d1 and drawing heat


still, though, with mithross' claimed super-event powers that suggests that to compensate both asiina and I would have to be scum

if he's telling the truth it speaks to her town alignment in my eyes

And this reads as a further backpedal combined with throwing shade on Mithross (which he already did earlier) and a buddyup to Asiina. Rapid fire damage control, those posts.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

You even acknowledge that opop has raised the same line of reasoning im working under and yet somehow act mystified I'm working under it!


It seems insincere and weird, like a supplementary gotcha off of the event failure

The strangest callout since I've already shown that TT's opinion on the sabotage element has changed from "definitely not" to "almost certainly."

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Sorry for loving up the bold in my post, I think you guys get the point. Hella comfortable with my vote.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

I'm saying that by following the mechanics of svum=fqilure it would require both of us to be scum

As I know that to be false I buy us all as town

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

I'm saying that by following the mechanics of svum=fqilure it would require both of us to be scum

As I know that to be false I buy us all as town

Why do you know that to be false? What told you that was not how the event worked?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Quidnose posted:

The strangest callout since I've already shown that TT's opinion on the sabotage element has changed from "definitely not" to "almost certainly."

What? My opinion has been from the start, consistently, that it wasn't sabotaged. The entirety of my posting today is trying to convince people that isn't what occurred. Are you confusin me with someone else?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Quidnose posted:

Why do you know that to be false? What told you that was not how the event worked?

I know it's not false because I am not scum, and the hypo is dependent on mithross going into the event with me and Asii both scum

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

If you don't believe that there's a sabotage mechanic at all why are you spending so much time speculating on a scenario you don't believe happened wherein Mitrhoss is megapowered and you and Asiina have to be scum?

You are pushing this in entirely the wrong way as far as I am concerned and that is scummy as heck.

Quidthulhu
Dec 17, 2003

Stand down, men! It's only smooching!

Tremendous Taste posted:

What? My opinion has been from the start, consistently, that it wasn't sabotaged. The entirety of my posting today is trying to convince people that isn't what occurred. Are you confusin me with someone else?

I guess in reviewing Asiina is the one who flat out said "this is a possibility" and I thought you had said that since you're both loving potatoes right now but you have consistantly been dancing around the idea and floating hypothesis you don't believe to be true which is a waste of time and a distraction. Why do it? What do you gain?

You also flat out said "the scum would know how their mechanics work for that event" and I see nothing in thread that tells us that is true. You haven't responded to that. Why are you 100% certain that is the case?

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

I'm trying to disprove the incorrect premise that opop is going to use to kill either Asii or me

There could very well be a sabotage mechanic but in no application of said mechanic I can think of does it make sense that a scum sabotaged this past mission


And what do you mean "so much time"

It's d1 and we're a mile from deadline, I'm talking about something that actually happened rather than fabricating :masterstroke:s out of things that didn't happen

Mithross
Apr 27, 2011

Intelligent and bright, they explored a world that was new and strange to them. They liked it, they thought - a whole world just for them! They were dimly aware that a God had created them, was watching them; they called out to him, thanking him in a chittering language, before running off.
I also never said I was megapowered, just have a different bonus.

If your flavor is from the time/dimension an event is occuring in, you are worth extra in that event, compared to someone from somewhere/when else. Instead of that, I give a somewhat smaller (I'm not sure how much) bonus to all events. Essentially, I always count as being home. It's a passive ability.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Quidnose posted:

I guess in reviewing Asiina is the one who flat out said "this is a possibility" and I thought you had said that since you're both loving potatoes right now but you have consistantly been dancing around the idea and floating hypothesis you don't believe to be true which is a waste of time and a distraction. Why do it? What do you gain?

You also flat out said "the scum would know how their mechanics work for that event" and I see nothing in thread that tells us that is true. You haven't responded to that. Why are you 100% certain that is the case?

It's all we have to go on right now, and I don't think mechanics talk is worthless if it doesn't preclude scum hunting. I think focusing on me/moth/asii will do that.

I think it's only reasonable to assume the scum would know if they sabotage events or not. I don't have any confirmation of it but by the same token I don't have confirmation that scum have a nightkill either and yet I'm going to operate as if I have confirmed proof they do

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t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010

Mithross posted:

I also never said I was megapowered, just have a different bonus.

If your flavor is from the time/dimension an event is occuring in, you are worth extra in that event, compared to someone from somewhere/when else. Instead of that, I give a somewhat smaller (I'm not sure how much) bonus to all events. Essentially, I always count as being home. It's a passive ability.

What does this even mean, though? Do you know how events are calculated?

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