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The Sharmat posted:The difference is that one uses burning as a long term cultural fixture where as the other only became common place recently due to the whims of a madman. Skelliger women burning themselves is not a punishment. If you can show me something where they are coerced/forced I'd love to hear it. I'm trying to compare one punishment (which you claimed was extra barbaric) to another. And if it's not burning at the stake on the continent it's something else: Like being "drawn and quartered in victory square" as per Witcher 2 or being impaled which seems to happen a ton. All those forms of torture and death seem super barbaric to me. At least the Skelligers appear to apply it in circumstances where it's mostly deserved. Not that they don't make mistakes in their justice system like with Craven. And Kovir is indeed mentioned: But we don't know anything about it because we can't see as a player what it's like. it's only mentioned a few times - like where Triss decides to take all the novigrad mages. So you can't use it. For all we know Kovirians are as barbaric as the rest of the continent. Edit: Again - to be really clear here: Turd that doesn't smell as bad as other turds.
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Aug 14, 2015 21:52
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What the gently caress are you ever arguing about? ...I heard you witchers steal young'ns!
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Aug 14, 2015 21:55
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Snak posted:What the gently caress are you ever arguing about? Just two nerds arguing about the finer points of video game barbarism.
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Aug 14, 2015 21:57
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I don't understand how you think Skelligen culture is less barbaric, when raiding people is a serious tradition in their culture. It makes them almost as bad as the loving elves. Have I mentioned how much I like the design of the elves in this? A lot of LOTR-style elves are like "humans but prettier" and with pointy ears. The cheekbone structure of these elves makes them seem much more alien, different rather than superior. It's funny how I can sympathize so much with Iorveth in W2 and hate elves so much in W3.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:02
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Ice Fist posted:And Kovir is indeed mentioned: But we don't know anything about it because we can't see as a player what it's like. it's only mentioned a few times - like where Triss decides to take all the novigrad mages. So you can't use it. For all we know Kovirians are as barbaric as the rest of the continent. Kovir is richer and more advanced than the rest of the Northern kingdoms, gives no fucks about magic or nonhuman bullshit, and is neutral (well, mostly) towards Nilfgaard. It's not in the games all that much but it is featured enough in the books to give you an idea. Also Skjall's fate is pretty typical of their justice system if you read the notices posted around Skellige. Edit: You can sympathize with the plight of elves and hate the behavior of the Scoia'tael at the same time. It's a complicated thing.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:02
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Kovir sounds like a pretty good place to live, unless you really need your hot and long summers.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:05
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Ice Fist posted:Skelliger women burning themselves is not a punishment. If you can show me something where they are coerced/forced I'd love to hear it. I'm trying to compare one punishment (which you claimed was extra barbaric) to another. And if it's not burning at the stake on the continent it's something else: Like being "drawn and quartered in victory square" as per Witcher 2 or being impaled which seems to happen a ton. All those forms of torture and death seem super barbaric to me. At least the Skelligers appear to apply it in circumstances where it's mostly deserved. Not that they don't make mistakes in their justice system like with Craven. dude you're loving nuts
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Aug 14, 2015 22:05
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Duh, it goes without saying that all cultures in the medieval world of the Witcher are harsh and lovely when compared to ours.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:06
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Speaking of Elves: just replayed the whole return to Kaer Morhen sequence and just wanted to say again how great the voice work is in this game, not just in terms of acting ability, but in the attention to detail of the voice direction. What struck me this time is hearing Geralt and Yennefer recite the same curse in Elder Speech. Geralt's is clumsy and very phonetic, whereas Yennefer's is elegant and using different pronunciation rules. In fact the only time the Elder Speech sounded more natural was when Iorveth uses it in TW2. It's those little details like that that really impress me with how dedicated CDPR was to world and character building. It's a minor thing, but it illustrates a lot in the difference in education and background between the two characters. Geralt learned the Elder Speech largely on his own, late in life. Yennefer's been speaking it most likely since she was about 13 or so, as part of her magical education.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:08
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Meta-Mollusk posted:Duh, it goes without saying that all cultures in the medieval world of the Witcher are harsh and lovely when compared to ours. Thanks for condensing my page of terrible posting into a single sentence.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:09
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One thing that surprised me about Skellige is how most clans don't seem to have a problem electing a woman as their ruler. Given their culture, you'd think that would be kind of a bigger deal, even if she's a proven badass. Also, I can't believe I'm still considering a second play-through of this 140 hours long game. That new game + DLC can't come soon enough.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:09
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The Sharmat posted:Edit: You can sympathize with the plight of elves and hate the behavior of the Scoia'tael at the same time. It's a complicated thing. It's something this franchise does really well. Where there's a reasonably realistic set of conflicts, and, go figure, the perspective you look at things from influences your opinion on which side is less wrong. It's basically impossible to get a full, impartial view of situations because the only way to find out what's going on is from people, who bring their own biases into the mix. This franchise is the only time I haven't felt like an RPG is just obfuscated good and bad choices. sertalman posted:One thing that surprised me about Skellige is how most clans don't seem to have a problem electing a woman as their ruler. Given their culture, you'd think that would be kind of a bigger deal, even if she's a proven badass.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:10
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The Sharmat posted:Kovir is richer and more advanced than the rest of the Northern kingdoms, gives no fucks about magic or nonhuman bullshit, and is neutral (well, mostly) towards Nilfgaard. It's not in the games all that much but it is featured enough in the books to give you an idea. DLC 1: gently caress all y'all, I'm going to chill in Kovir.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:10
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sertalman posted:One thing that surprised me about Skellige is how most clans don't seem to have a problem electing a woman as their ruler. Given their culture, you'd think that would be kind of a bigger deal, even if she's a proven badass. If you look around at the NPCs, all the clans in Skellige have Shieldmaidens as like 20-30% of the Guard NPCs. I don't think Skelligers give that much of a poo poo about women being involved in violence or decision making really. I mean, Birna Bran is a big political force there, and even with Yennefer they give her poo poo about being a sorceress, not about being a woman. Snak posted:It's something this franchise does really well. Where there's a reasonably realistic set of conflicts, and, go figure, the perspective you look at things from influences your opinion on which side is less wrong. It's basically impossible to get a full, impartial view of situations because the only way to find out what's going on is from people, who bring their own biases into the mix. And even within extreme factions, there's a gradient. Iorveth and Yaevinn are hugely different people for example. And hell, even the Witch Hunters have one or two decent people among them shown in the game. Tamara and her commander are alright, for instance.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:13
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The Sharmat posted:And even within extreme factions, there's a gradient. Iorveth and Yaevinn are hugely different people for example. And hell, even the Witch Hunters have one or two decent people among them shown in the game. Tamara and her commander are alright, for instance. And it's really easy to see, given the influences in these people's live, how they came to the conclusions they did. Geralt, being on the path, gets to see a much broader view of things than the average person, and he lives long enough to see the less immediate consequences of things. edit: Just ordered Blood of Elves. Can't wait.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:22
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Just to make sure, you have read Sword of Destiny, right? For a long time there was no official translation of it because the publisher is stupid, but one came out this year and it's absolutely vital.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:26
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The Sharmat posted:Just to make sure, you have read Sword of Destiny, right? For a long time there was no official translation of it because the publisher is stupid, but one came out this year and it's absolutely vital. I haven't. But I'm not super worried about it being out of chronology. My understanding was the Sword of Destiny was another anthology, and I would rather mix it up by reading it in between the novels. But I guess I better add it to my order in case you tell me that's a really bad idea. edit: well it's not even out in paperback yet, so that answers that.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:30
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One thing about the item progression in this game keeps bugging me, The game and crach an craite makes a big deal about winter's blade - and then it's barely better than my enhanced griffin sword which i'll be upgrading in a level (25 now), same with the sword the elf gives you after swords and dumplings - "oh great, thanks for the sword you spent so much time on that is significantly worse than anything I have, where's the nearest vendor?"
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Aug 14, 2015 22:31
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Snak posted:I haven't. But I'm not super worried about it being out of chronology. My understanding was the Sword of Destiny was another anthology, and I would rather mix it up by reading it in between the novels. But I guess I better add it to my order in case you tell me that's a really bad idea. It's an anthology but the stories are actually in chronological order, tell a unified story, and are crucial to Geralt and Yennefer's character development. It's also the first time Ciri shows up. You are seriously hurting the experience if you don't read it before Blood of Elves, not least because Blood of Elves opens immediately after the ending of Sword of Destiny. I wouldn't even bother continuing if you don't read it to be honest. Just get the kindle version or something.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:31
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Level progression is the most broken-rear end worst thing about this game. The artificial difficulty scaling that happens when you're under-leveled basically ruins the game. The only concievable purpose of it is to force you to do content in order to level, which is poor design for a game that is so heavily story driven.The Sharmat posted:It's an anthology but the stories are actually in chronological order, tell a unified story, and are crucial to Geralt and Yennefer's character development. It's also the first time Ciri shows up. Really not a fan of e-books. Snak fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 22:33
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It's arguably the best book in the series, and it's not an out of order loosely connected anthology. It introduces vital plot concepts and is very much part of the overall story of the saga at every level, not like the Last Wish. It's almost like reading the Two Towers without reading Fellowship of the Ring or something. I cannot emphasize enough what a bad idea skipping it would be. You are likely to be very confused reading Blood of Elves without it.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:38
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Trolls are the superior society in the game. They have mastered fine arts such as painting and superior naval strategies. No barbaric acts of burning, just soup.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:38
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Skellige owns. 
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Aug 14, 2015 22:39
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The Sharmat posted:It's arguably the best book in the series, and it's not an out of order loosely connected anthology. It introduces vital plot concepts and is very much part of the overall story of the saga at every level, not like the Last Wish. god what the gently caress is wrong with Poland then. It doesn't come out for 4 more months. only 23 years late. Yes I am blaming the entire country of Poland for whatever this dumbfuck publisher's problem is. I could have learned Polish by now.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:41
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Snak posted:god what the gently caress is wrong with Poland then. It doesn't come out for 4 more months. only 23 years late. Like everything wrong with the world, the blame lies with Great Britain.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:42
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The Sharmat posted:Like everything wrong with the world, the blame lies with Great Britain. That makes sense. Also, it's no surprise that Andrzej Sapkowski's education is in business and economics.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:44
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Yeah comes across pretty well in the reading. The wars' aims are largely economic and I think getting an economics education in Poland during the Cold War probably contributes to his cynicism for grand initiatives and big political causes.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:45
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JetsGuy posted:Skellige owns. Also, despite being exactly the same concept, Skellige has the property of making the Iron Islands from GoT look even more ludicrous by comparison.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:46
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Poolparty posted:Trolls are the superior society in the game. They have mastered fine arts such as painting and superior naval strategies. No barbaric acts of burning, just soup. Peasanters, good food. Army mans, not so good. Big stew, ALWAYS GOOD. Snak posted:Level progression is the most broken-rear end worst thing about this game. The artificial difficulty scaling that happens when you're under-leveled basically ruins the game. The only concievable purpose of it is to force you to do content in order to level, which is poor design for a game that is so heavily story driven. Yeah, on one hand I like that the game isn't loot or level-driven in the sense the payoff isn't in doing a bunch of grindy poo poo so you can hit level 10 and equip your awesome sword. In that sense it's sort of the polar opposite of DA: Inquisition where the "open world" aspect is MMO-style generic grinding and collection quests. On the other hand the loot and level progression in Wild Hunt don't really make any sense and it's probably the single biggest outstanding issue with it imo
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Aug 14, 2015 22:48
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The Sharmat posted:Yeah comes across pretty well in the reading. The wars' aims are largely economic and I think getting an economics education in Poland during the Cold War probably contributes to his cynicism for grand initiatives and big political causes. I money is a pretty universal driving force, and people who have a decent understanding of how it works create more realistic/believable settings. LOTR, which has a huge and detailed setting, feels very fluffy and unrealistic when compared with the Witcher universe. I guess I'll just get tthis dumb kindle version and try to read it all in 2 days. edit: Pellisworth posted:Yeah, on one hand I like that the game isn't loot or level-driven in the sense the payoff isn't in doing a bunch of grindy poo poo so you can hit level 10 and equip your awesome sword. In that sense it's sort of the polar opposite of DA: Inquisition where the "open world" aspect is MMO-style generic grinding and collection quests. On the other hand the loot and level progression in Wild Hunt don't really make any sense and it's probably the single biggest outstanding issue with it imo The way they've designed the game is basically the opposite of good progression. They've made a game that can only get easier. I am low level, so I don't have very many abilities. Fighting enemies is harder because I have poor abilities and poor stats. Fighting higher level enemies is harder because of the red skull stat adjust. When I level up, these enemies will become trivially easy, because i will have more abilities and my damage will no longer be gimped. It's like they don't want you to have a fun challenge, it must be an impossible grind or easy as gently caress. That is poor game design. Snak fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 14, 2015 |
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Aug 14, 2015 22:49
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Snak posted:I money is a pretty universal driving force, and people who have a decent understanding of how it works create more realistic/believable settings. LOTR, which has a huge and detailed setting, feels very fluffy and unrealistic when compared with the Witcher universe. Yeah, sinews of war, unlimited money, etc etc I like the bit in The Last Wish where Sapkowski actually bothered to address how Elven society actually worked back in the day, something that Tolkien never did. It's hard to imagine a Noldor farmer. In The Witcher setting the Aen Seidhe literally didn't farm. They just used magic and kept in good with local post-conjunction nature powers and now that the world is changing they have to either adopt plows and crop rotation or starve. It shouldn't be hard to read it fast. It's not that long.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:53
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I just finished Baptism of Fire and I am amazed that the Witcher books aren't more popular. They are some of the best fantasy books I've read recently. Still waiting on the last two to be translated though.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:53
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The publisher botched their release and they're known in the Anglosphere as video game tie-in novels. They're really popular in Europe.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:54
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Snak posted:I money is a pretty universal driving force, and people who have a decent understanding of how it works create more realistic/believable settings. LOTR, which has a huge and detailed setting, feels very fluffy and unrealistic when compared with the Witcher universe. Tolkien is writing LotR with a very different purpose and context, yeah. Really it's an elaborate exercise in fantasy language, myth, and world-creation heavily structured by Tolkien's Catholic/Aristotelian belief system. He was very into his idea of "sub-creation" where he was honoring God's creation of the world by creating Middle Earth. Comte, please let there be a quest line in one of the expansions where Dandelion and Geralt and maybe the theater lady whose name I forget put on a Shakespeare play. The entire cast are rock trolls.
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Aug 14, 2015 22:58
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The Sharmat posted:And even within extreme factions, there's a gradient. Even the Witch Hunters have one or two decent people among them shown in the game. Tamara and her commander are alright, for instance. I was hoping they would ever do anything again, because outside of Graden the whole organization is a massive pitch black streak, who I was happy to put to the sword at every chance. Them and the Baron's men, both groups wholly deserve every knifing they get.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:02
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Pellisworth posted:Comte, please let there be a quest line in one of the expansions where Dandelion and Geralt and maybe the theater lady whose name I forget put on a Shakespeare play. The entire cast are rock trolls. There was at one point in the leaks a cut quest where Dandelion and that lady involve Geralt in a play version of the short story in the Last Wish with the Sylvan.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:02
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Pellisworth posted:Tolkien is writing LotR with a very different purpose and context, yeah. Really it's an elaborate exercise in fantasy language, myth, and world-creation heavily structured by Tolkien's Catholic/Aristotelian belief system. He was very into his idea of "sub-creation" where he was honoring God's creation of the world by creating Middle Earth. I don't disagree there. Tolkien's work is an amazing accomplishment and there's a reason it's a cornerstone of the genre now. it's just that, for a lot of people, it's some kind of golden-child of quality, when really I think Tolkien's storytelling is mediocre. Reading the appendices and The Silmarilion, that's some neat stuff, but the characters and stories of The Hobbit and the LOTR are really two-dimensional larger-than-life archetypes that I find pretty boring as an adult.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:06
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I think Tolkien is like the anti-GRRM. His prose is incredible and his world building is great but his characters are kinda boring outside of one or two of them which makes it a bit harder to care a lot about the story. The Witcher beats both of them on delivering on a theme though.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:07
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I think GoT/ASOIAF is garbage. I only read the first book and part of the second, but I've watched most of the god-awful show. It's so formulaic. At first, it doesn't seem formulaic because it's subverting the usual formulas, but it follows it's own so strictly it's loving boring. Also children characters. Who cares. Good acting and production values in the series though.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:10
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The show is significantly more poorly written and formulaic than the books.Snak posted:Also children characters. Who cares. Boy you're gonna hate Blood of Elves. Like half the book is from 12-14 year old Ciri's perspective.
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Aug 14, 2015 23:11
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