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ocrumsprug posted:You should learn how to farm if you are worried about the collapse of civilization. A few years ago when the Arab Spring started up, my Facebook was loaded with these idiots. A big thing that got me to stop being involved in social media were the number of people calling for a revolution and civil war here in America while being disgusted with actual revolutions happening in other countries. I don't wanna have to get up every morning and equip myself with an AK and gas mask and neither does anyone else you weirdos
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Aug 17, 2015 06:31
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We're not supposed to survive the Tribulations that CWII or the zombies or whatever represent. We're just there (at best) as someone whose death can provide a valuable lesson. Most of the people who are into TEoTWawKi are also really into sorrowfully mourning the deaths of most of the people they know.
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Aug 18, 2015 08:05
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Peztopiary posted:We're not supposed to survive the Tribulations that CWII or the zombies or whatever represent. We're just there (at best) as someone whose death can provide a valuable lesson. Most of the people who are into TEoTWawKi are also really into sorrowfully mourning the deaths of most of the people they know.  but unironically.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:32
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I always imagined that the luckiest of us would die immediately, and anyone who's doomed to rebuild from the ashes would have a horrible time.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:51
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Me, in the afterlife: so I guess you stayed around for some time after the bombs dropped? Newly arrived prepper: yeah, mostly by thirsting and eating faeces.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:53
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Nosfereefer posted:I always imagined that the luckiest of us would die immediately, and anyone who's doomed to rebuild from the ashes would have a horrible time. Yeah, that's pretty much the balance of things. Generally if something happens like that, the people left better at the very least get used to making GBS threads outside a toilet.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:51
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FAUXTON posted:Yeah, that's pretty much the balance of things. That's why the food comes in buckets.
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Aug 20, 2015 16:46
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Nosfereefer posted:Me, in the afterlife: so I guess you stayed around for some time after the bombs dropped? They'll become kings thanks to their ample supplies of dehydrated soup. They can barter soup for their heart medication.
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Aug 20, 2015 16:59
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CellBlock posted:That's why the food comes in buckets. Yeah but what happens when it's beef stew bucket night?
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Aug 21, 2015 04:23
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How much of this stuff is people hosed over by capitalism staking all their hopes of agency and a meaningful life on being a feudal lord after the Big Event?
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Aug 21, 2015 13:38
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Vitamin P posted:How much of this stuff is people hosed over by capitalism staking all their hopes of agency and a meaningful life on being a feudal lord after the Big Event? Probably a LOT. In my experience these folks and conspiracy people (chemtrails, etc.) are all down on their luck financially and don't have very fulfilling lives.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:57
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FAUXTON posted:Yeah but what happens when it's beef stew bucket night? Very careful labeling.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:58
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Vitamin P posted:How much of this stuff is people hosed over by capitalism staking all their hopes of agency and a meaningful life on being a feudal lord after the Big Event? Very little. Referring to the recent posts on doomsday preppers and whatnot, I think it's a hodgepodge of deep cultural stuff such as hoarding tendencies. Some constellation of events in one's life may trigger near-instinctive level traits, and then the same ancient behaviors consistently spring up, and it suddenly appears reasonable to stockpile food and build a bunker. I think one precondition for that particular path is isolation, like rural isolation. I remember, as do lots of men who grew up in the country during the cold war, playing a childhood version of what would later be rendered into "Red Dawn." Well, a lot of grownups still play it, too. They haven't been hosed over by capitalism at all. They don't play it too much in the city, though. You just don't see doomsday preppers in environments where people communicate and work together a lot, but there are other structures out there. For instance, you have stuff like tendencies to incite pogroms as another one. Nothing about these latent behaviors are rational, but all follow a deep survival template that is pretty consistent among different civilizations, or at least among my fellow Christians. Another such structure is weapons fetishes. Little boys love knives. Men's thinking regarding war, especially again in rural isolation, begins there and often doesn't go much further, except it evolves from knives and fishing tackle to guns, and moves away from hunting weapons to combat gear. The list goes on. Fear and loathing for homosexuality is another. Racism in general is one that's currently biting us all in the rear end right now, as people are simply incapable of overcoming some of the stuff that's programmed deep in us, even though our survival depends on it. I can't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies. Again, for anybody new to this thread, one favorite reading recommendation is "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" by Charles Mackay. It's published online, and public domain. Good read and very entertaining too. You can find it on Gutenberg, or here: http://www.econlib.org/library/Mackay/macEx.html
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Aug 21, 2015 15:04
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Racism is not a deep programming in the human mind, fear of these other is. If we didn't let parent indoctrinate children and made sure kids got lots of exposure to different types of people (both physically and mentally) their definition of normal would shift and they wouldn't be much harder to separate. There's childhood development studies supporting this. And cross-cutting social cleavages that break up ethnic groups are a huge moderator on identity based conflict. You have to be really careful making the sort of evopsych attributions you are, they aren't nearly as supported as you seem to believe.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:17
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Vitamin P posted:How much of this stuff is people hosed over by capitalism staking all their hopes of agency and a meaningful life on being a feudal lord after the Big Event? Not much, because you gotta have a lot of money to afford to stock up on sheds full of guns, ammo, and other such junk.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:33
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Political Whores posted:Racism is not a deep programming in the human mind, fear of these other is. If we didn't let parent indoctrinate children and made sure kids got lots of exposure to different types of people (both physically and mentally) their definition of normal would shift and they wouldn't be much harder to separate. There's childhood development studies supporting this. And cross-cutting social cleavages that break up ethnic groups are a huge moderator on identity based conflict. You have to be really careful making the sort of evopsych attributions you are, they aren't nearly as supported as you seem to believe. Are you saying then that racism isn't a cultural construct? I think you're chasing windmills here.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:42
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I'm saying that fear of the different in any form is entirely socially constructed and it only exists because the people head sheltered narrow upbringings that perputuated white sumpremacism. There's no deep survival instinct in humans to be racist or hate gay people.
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Aug 21, 2015 17:56
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Political Whores posted:I'm saying that fear of the different in any form is entirely socially constructed and it only exists because the people head sheltered narrow upbringings that perputuated white sumpremacism. There's no deep survival instinct in humans to be racist or hate gay people. I'd agree. I said near instinctive. But both your examples, racism and queer-hating, are so universal across so many cultures that sheltered upbringings doesn't adequately explain it everywhere, especially outside of western white supremacy. And it's not just fear of the different, although that's absolutely part of it. I think there have been studies on siblings separated at birth demonstrating that people are more strongly attracted to those who resemble their own kind genetically. This, combined with the "fear of the different" as you say, working in combination pretty much do generate a space for a "natural" proclivity to racism, and yet I wouldn't go so far as to call it instinct. I might call it part of our mental topography. Traditionally I think it's been said in modern times that humans don't have instincts. I think that may be pretty far off, but not sure. And I'm not real clear on where cultural constructs, instinct, programming and so forth are identified from one another. I've heard that chickens will gang up and kill a wounded bird, and I see this as to some extent a universal shared by humanity in the form of all kinds of our more undesirable behaviors, but how much of it is actual instinct in us is a mystery to me. I've been tempted to think that there's a layer of human "programming" as you say that's somewhere between culture and genetics, between inborn and learned, but I don't want to get all  on y'all. ;------------------------------------------------ But slightly more relevant to PJ's thing, an interesting event lately, those two dildos that beat up on a homeless guy claiming they were inspired by Donald Trump, and then the Trumpster allowing in response that his followers are "very passionate." Some chilling loving poo poo right there. I think we have a little way to go before we reach Wiemar Republic levels of being in the poo poo yet, but that's a call to latent brownshirts everywhere is what that is. Frankly, I'm hoping the Donald is sort of serving as a pied piper here, drawing away some of the soul-less trash from the mainstream discourse so some humanity can be restored, for those who respond to politics with something other than their lizard brain.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:52
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SnakePlissken posted:;------------------------------------------------ I was just going to post about that incident myself. I quite agree with your Wiemar Republic comparison. I have generally avoided making comparisons between the rise of the Third Reich and my Narrativist framework thus far because 1.) I am not a historian and 2.) I hate easy  and felt that if my framework held promise I should be able to demonstrate it well enough with what I knew of extremists in the US. I still am not entirely comfortable with making the comparisons myself currently (because it just reeks of "Lol Schizophrenic predicting the rise of NAZI'S lol" and I really would rather avoid that) but I am aware of what appears to be a similar pattern emerging in the US at present. With the incident above we have a charismatic right wing extremist running on a strong nationalist platform encouraging his "followers" (and he called them "the people who are following me", not his "supporters" or "fans") to violently attack a hated other for which the ills of society are being blamed for said by charismatic right wing extremist. And Trump is not the extreme of right wing thought on illegal immigrants at the moment. Oh no. Not anymore. This video is demonstrating pure, outright, open fascism, and it is clear that Cenk just has no idea how to react to this. This is a clear demonstration of Inner Narratives starting to come out into the public sphere in all their horrid narcissistic glory. In this video a right wing radio host that is a bigshot in Iowa calls for no poo poo enslaving all illegal aliens. No exaggeration, this man's plan is basically "Give em 30-60 days to clear out, and if they do not leave the country, they become property of the state. We take a lesson from Sheriff Arpaio and give them minimal shelter, minimal food, and we find them work to do. First thing they can do is build that wall." And as bad as that is, AFTER this man gets called out on the remark and refuses to apologize/doubles down, Scott Walker goes on his show for an interview. It was known that this man is openly advocating for slavery, and a serious corporate backed GOP POTUS candidate went on his show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3QTCBrQ_Sk And now for a couple of video's that I feel demonstrate the accurateness of my original projections for how SSM would play out. Prester John posted:Important to keep in mind here is that the Fundie Skyman is fond of indiscriminate murder. Gay Marriage puts every American at risk. once the Supreme Court decision goes through, every Hurricane, every Tornado, every stray hiker in PA that gets struck by lightning, is going to be God punishing us for Gay Marriage. The only way to protect yourself from God's wrath is going to be to oppose the sodomites at every turn in every way possible. In this fight either you are with God or you are with Satan. Since Satan controls the world, if the world is attacking you, that means it is Satan attacking God. So you will be safe from God if everyone else is condemning your actions. What I am trying to say here is, opposition to Gay Marriage will become a matter of not only personal safety, but safety for your family. When Satan's minions call you an ignorant bigot, that means that you are safe from the inevitable punishment God is cooking up for America. She Shoots She Scores!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL2Ldj2e7CE Also; Prester John posted:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhr-Et2shQI Also this one, which is the above but with a shitload of Narrative Convergence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scQBgyZS0JQ
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Aug 21, 2015 20:08
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This video deserves its own special post. What we are seeing here is the Outer Narrative starting to peel away and a very deep Inner Narrative start to peek out. A Narrativist's ultimate loyalty is to the Inner Narrative, not to anything else. Because of the loss of the culture wars right wing Narrativists feel rejected by America itself, and their loyalty to the concept of being American is being openly questioned here. Despite what they might portray, patriotism is only an affectation among Narrativists, a useful Outer Narrative. Now that Outer Narrative's are starting to be whittled away across the board in all four right wing aligned Narrativist Clusters we are starting to see the Outer Narrative of patriotism being shed. The ultimate loyalty is to the Inner Narrative, and the Inner Narrative has gone from "It is prophesied that one day the US Gov't will turn against us 'true (insert group label here)'" to now "The prophesied time is here, the Us Gov't is our enemy NOW!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUtk7EEbSEM **Disclaimer, a Schizophrenic projects her own experiences onto a diverse group of people. Take the below with a giant grain of salt. This is a crucial change (psychologically speaking) to the Narrativist mindset. Although not quite as directly as one might expect. Despite the fact that many Narrativists believe they are living in whatever their personal version of the End Times is currently, people are still people and not likely to simply go out and start living in the woods/shooting race traitors. Or well, at least not right away. What causes problems in the long run is the stress of believing that you are living through the end of the world. When you see a blue sky and think soon there will be no more blue skies or when you look around at your favorite restaurant and think I sure am glad I got to experience this place before it all went to poo poo, I'm gonna miss all this, your thinking changes over at time. At first it is kind of a rush, and kind of empowering. You can see the world for what it really is, and you can see the horror on the horizon that the sheeple around you are blind to. You feel superior to everyone around you, and you also begin to savor each of life's little delights. (at first) You stop to get ice cream on impulse and order a double just because might as well enjoy it while I can. The constant indulgence goes from a fun lark to an accustomed habit rather quickly though, and the fun of feeling smugly superior gives way to a sense of dread and despair. You become unable to enjoy anything after awhile, and the stress eats at you. You live with the Sword of Damocles forever dangling over your head, and eventually the stress of it leaves you wishing that it would just loving fall already and get it over with. Even all the above will generally just leave the average person miserable and depressed. However, within Narrativist Clusters modern mental health is very suspect, if not outright verboten. It is my conjecture (obviously unproven at this point) that as a result of this and the Narrativist blind spot for symptoms of mental illness in general, Narrativists have a higher per-capita incidence of untreated mental illness than the general population. And under the constant stress of living in a delusion that the world is literally ending there is a very high chance that we see a significant uptick in hate crimes/spree shootings/general domestic terrorism. There are just so many unfortunate souls that are caught up in the Narrativist behavior pattern that do not understand the world around them, have been taught not to seek the actual source of help they need (psychology) and to instead embrace whichever self deluded "fix" seems to help, and are now being tormented by the sheer terror of the world they believe they are living in. I am quite concerned that some of them may start snapping as this drags on. It may even go beyond the current lone nut level and into "small groups" level. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 20:39
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Prester John posted:She Shoots She Scores! Wait wait wait. Do they or don't they believe god is all knowing and all powerful? 'cause if you have to go outside and stand in a crowd to be a 'sign to god' then you've got it backwards. God doesn't know *poo poo*. Omniscient beings shouldn't need a human being to be a 'sign'. He should know based on your being. I'm starting to wonder if they *Really* believe, but are so terrified of being seen as an unbeliever that they're trying to basically just throw themselves into the spotlight to go "LOOK LOOK I'M THE BIGGEST BELIEVER OF ALL!' 'Apostate'. Nothing but 'Apostate this' and 'Apostate that'. Wasn't the sin of Sodom that they had an over abundance of good fortune and refused to share it with their neighbors? I also still maintain that it's kind of effed up that the 'good answer' on the bioware choice wheel of 'evil, neutral, and good' that lot apparently had was 'No no please don't rape these strangers, rape my daughters instead'. So y'know. .. maybe the Christians shouldn't be leaning on the tale of sodom all that much since their 'hero' Lot was going to throw his daughters under the bus to score brownie points with god. Prester John posted:I am quite concerned that some of them may start snapping as this drags on. It may even go beyond the current lone nut level and into "small groups" level. I've been scared of this for a long time. The transformation into the christian version of terrorists. They'll say if you're not with us, you're against us, and start killing people. Anyone killed accidentally, well it didn't matter because he's in heaven/hell now because god puts you where you deserve. I'm still not sure how anyone can look at what they're espousing and not see the mirror image of ISIS. Not see how they're literally the same people, just using different words.
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Aug 21, 2015 20:57
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 This is a thing that someone said in 2015 on a show that's popular enough to have multiple presidential candidates on it.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:04
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I think one could make a good argument for a half-modernization in the South (pretty much up to this day) coupled with a psychological inability to demobilize after the Civil War and lingering effects from that to build a kind of "Southern Sonderweg" analysis -- but I don't think that's really sufficient. While  -style Narrativism plays an important role in Southern politics, it isn't an exclusively Southern phenomenon in the United States. Nativism and racism are deeply woven into the political framework of the United States. No need to look to Weimar when we can look at our own backyard with things like the "Know Nothing" Party or more recently the New Klu Klux Klan, John Birch Society, etc.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:48
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I am pleased. Keep going Narrativists. Continue forth and be bold and honest on your feelings. Show everyone your impotent rage over decades of losing.
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Aug 21, 2015 23:24
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E-Tank posted:'Apostate'. Nothing but 'Apostate this' and 'Apostate that'. Wasn't the sin of Sodom that they had an over abundance of good fortune and refused to share it with their neighbors? Kind of... of course, you'll still see people stating that it was certainly definitely positively homosexuality. Ezekiel 16:49-50 posted:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. quote:Classical Jewish texts concur that God did *not* destroy Sodom and Gemorrah because their inhabitants were homosexual. Not at all. Rather, the cities were destroyed because the inhabitents were nasty, depraved, and uncompromisingly greedy. Classical Jewish writings affirm that the primary crimes of the Sodomites were, among others, terrible and repeated economic crimes, both against each other and to outsiders. Saying "God killed them because they were gay" is, to say the least, not the Jewish teaching on the subject. quote:The men of Sodom waxed haughty only on account of the good which the Holy One, blessed be He, had lavished upon them...They said: Since there cometh forth bread out of (our) earth, and it hath the dust of gold, why should we suffer wayfarers, who come to us only to deplete our wealth. Come, let us abolish the practice of travelling in our land... quote:Common in that time period, male rape was used as a means to discourage strangers from coming near a home or a city. Statues of gods with phallic symbols, or simply phallic symbols, were erected to protect the gardens and doorways of citizens’ homes in Ancient Greece and Rome. The god Priapus evoked that protection and the message was clear: “you come in here to our space and we will rape you.” People entering an area would stroke the god for protection. I do not imagine the angels complied with that tradition that evening. They had the protection of the I AM God. Evil_Greven fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 23:24
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E-Tank posted:'Apostate'. Nothing but 'Apostate this' and 'Apostate that'. Wasn't the sin of Sodom that they had an over abundance of good fortune and refused to share it with their neighbors? quote:A new video purportedly released by the Islamic State shows six men charged with being members of “Apostate Rejectionist Committees” being executed by gunshot. quote:In a new video purportedly released by the Islamic State, ten “apostates” are mass executed by detonating a bomb in Khorasan, an ISIS region of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India. quote:ISIS terrorists have publicly executed a human rights lawyer in the Iraqi city of Mosul after she criticised the group on Facebook for destroying religious monuments. Samira Salih al-Nuaimi was seized from her home on September 17 shortly after she allegedly posted messages on Facebook that were critical of the militants' destruction of religious sites in the city. quote:Abu Qatadah Al-Filistini (Palestinian Abu Qatadah), who is one of the people who came from the Gaza Strip and joined ISIS in Aleppo, expressed profound delight that he is one of the caliphate's soldiers. He called on all "monotheists in Gaza to join the convoy of the Muhajidin and to join the State of the Caliphate." But seriously this is kinda terrifying hearing just how close this rhetoric is, and that's without even mentioning the "we should make slaves of illegal immigrants". (Hey, ISIL does that too!  )
fade5 fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 23:36
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Never because the Right Wing will try their damnedest to deny any and all Christian terrorist attacks.
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Aug 21, 2015 23:50
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E-Tank posted:Wait wait wait. Do they or don't they believe god is all knowing and all powerful? That Eco quote about enemies simultaneously being all powerful and incredibly weak applies to all enemies. God's just the ultimate boss monster.
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Aug 22, 2015 00:07
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Goon's forgetting their Terry Pratchett ITT. Specifically, Granny Weatherwax's quote about treating people like things.
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Aug 22, 2015 04:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiNGP9Rn_xs Whoever is behind this campaign to take down PP is really, really loving stupid. This isn't just playing with fire, this is kicking a 55 gallon drum of kerosene onto a bonfire. Narrativists who buy into this particular Narrative will find it almost impossible to regard themselves as Americans while PP continues to exist. Some may even find it impossible to consider themselves "good guys" while evil baby harvesting is freely taking place and they sit back and "do nothing". The direction this propaganda campaign is driving the Narrativists into is a very black place that puts extremely powerful psychological demands for action on to Narrativists. This is really loving stupid and I would love to meet the sociopath designing this because Jesus Christ whoever is behind this must just want to watch the world burn. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Aug 22, 2015 |
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Aug 22, 2015 15:39
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Prester John posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiNGP9Rn_xs Why do these PP employees talk to these loving people? I know they lie about who they are but it doesn't matter; if you work somewhere you don't just tell some random rear end in a top hat whatever they want to know about your place of business. These people are seriously, incredibly naive and stupid.
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Aug 22, 2015 16:30
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Prester John posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiNGP9Rn_xs They're what internet trolls grow up to be.
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Aug 22, 2015 16:51
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Prester John posted:Whoever is behind this campaign to take down PP is really, really loving stupid. This isn't just playing with fire, this is kicking a 55 gallon drum of kerosene onto a bonfire. Narrativists who buy into this particular Narrative will find it almost impossible to regard themselves as Americans while PP continues to exist. Some may even find it impossible to consider themselves "good guys" while evil baby harvesting is freely taking place and they sit back and "do nothing". The direction this propaganda campaign is driving the Narrativists into is a very black place that puts extremely powerful psychological demands for action on to Narrativists. I think you're weighing it too heavily. And in any case, if you really believe abortion is murder then it's worth starting a civil war over.
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Aug 22, 2015 16:56
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The whole abortion is murder thing just really reinforces either their hypocrisy or their laziness, as they've been at it 50 years and killed at most a dozen people. The majority shout out the standard rage lines and at most march in front of a clinic on Saturday. They don't really care or they don't really believe it's murder.
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Aug 22, 2015 17:53
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Noam Chomsky posted:Why do these PP employees talk to these loving people? I know they lie about who they are but it doesn't matter; if you work somewhere you don't just tell some random rear end in a top hat whatever they want to know about your place of business. These people are seriously, incredibly naive and stupid. Joybombing works, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some are actors.
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Aug 22, 2015 18:26
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Jack Gladney posted:They're what internet trolls grow up to be. Hey, I resent that remark, some of us are trying to use our trolling for good. We're just too busy starting slapfights in comment sections. 
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Aug 22, 2015 18:34
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So do narrativst evangelicals ever fear that they might fail? That the End Times might come and no one will be saved, not even then? Like a possible apocalypse where God just says 'gently caress all this noise", kills everybody/sends everybody to hell, and goes back to the drawing board to design a new species or retire or whatever it is gods do with their time?
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Aug 22, 2015 19:29
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Woolie Wool posted:So do narrativst evangelicals ever fear that they might fail? That the End Times might come and no one will be saved, not even then? Like a possible apocalypse where God just says 'gently caress all this noise", kills everybody/sends everybody to hell, and goes back to the drawing board to design a new species or retire or whatever it is gods do with their time? No. They're absolutely convinced that if they go down fighting they'll get into Heaven so the important thing is that they fight to the bitter end, even if they fail to win. The idea that God will just drat everybody or that the human race will end without them individually getting into Heaven is an impossibility.
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Aug 22, 2015 19:35
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ErichZahn posted:Joybombing works, though I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some are actors. What is "joybombing?"
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Aug 22, 2015 19:46
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| # ? Jun 14, 2024 12:27 |
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Woolie Wool posted:So do narrativst evangelicals ever fear that they might fail? That the End Times might come and no one will be saved, not even then? Like a possible apocalypse where God just says 'gently caress all this noise", kills everybody/sends everybody to hell, and goes back to the drawing board to design a new species or retire or whatever it is gods do with their time? "21 The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done." God will never again wipe out mankind, which gives mankind justification to do all the poo poo that caused the first flood.
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Aug 22, 2015 20:02
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