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I'm not that big  Has foolofsound shown the mongler horde yet? In any case they're the ones with the swastika flag, they have great research potential and can do lots of blood things later on. Almost everything he has is recruitable without a fort, but he is very weak earlygame. And he doubled down on it with an imprisoned full scales build. These guys are his only real defence. Good, undead troops who deal extra stun damage against sacreds.  I on the other hand have really good early game troops, so I jumped him as soon as possible, around turn 8 or 9. Red indicates where my fly bats blocked him from expanding and took his provinces and orange is where I'm gathering my forces to attack his capital next turn.  I hadn't been taking screenshots, so these are from later in the game or from the reenactement I did for the thread xD I've hired all the mercenaries, they are very cheap for what they bring and early game they can give you a large numerical advantage.  Here's my army setup, with archers instead of the barbarians I actually had:  a bunch of priests up front to banish his undead, mercenaries in the middle to take the brunch of the casualties. The bats can't do much here so I have them guard the priests and take hits as well. We'll be fighting in magic 3 dominion, lowering the magic resistance of his undead. Also jonjoe, who's playing the mongler, has to drop out and is replaced by iloveyou, who misses a turn, at some point during all this. Meanwhile I make a non agression pact with Goran and talk about killing Xanrick. I haven't played against most people in this game, so as far as I know he is the strongest player in the game. I prefer to team up against the strongest player, for some combination of player skill, nation strenght and game situation, at all times.
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Aug 22, 2015 14:33
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 06:23 |
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uguu posted:Has foolofsound shown the mongler horde yet? Yeah, I talked about them a while back.
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Aug 22, 2015 15:48
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I actually only take 1 turn in total uguu
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Aug 22, 2015 17:04
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Hitlerretardbetrayed
Decrepus fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Aug 24, 2015 |
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Aug 24, 2015 03:03
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Axolotl should be obese
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Aug 24, 2015 15:05
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hi do NOT hurt axolotl
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Aug 24, 2015 15:22
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If this is still Year 1 it's about the right time to still be accelerating research, right? Or is going research so early kneecapping expansion? Well, I guess we'll see.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:12
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Glazius posted:If this is still Year 1 it's about the right time to still be accelerating research, right? Or is going research so early kneecapping expansion? Unless you're really trying to rush something, most players only do research when they have excess money/fort turns during year 1. Having good expansion is generally much more useful.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:15
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fool_of_sound posted:Unless you're really trying to rush something, most players only do research when they have excess money/fort turns during year 1. Having good expansion is generally much more useful. No one said I was good at this game 
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Aug 24, 2015 20:16
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Turn 14: Someone claimed a throne - this is how you win this game. Get enough Thrones of Ascension and you’re acclaimed as the new god of the world, with the others cast down and mocked (on irc but only if they were dumb). The two unexpected events are death related - one features me lose about 100 people, the other is an increase in the death scale and more people dead. It’s fine, they’re probably not actual giants   Claiming thrones also gives events that are worldwide - this is a good one that offsets my natural death scale with a bit of growth. Awesome!  I also found a gem deposit! I have no idea what this does, but it’s gotta be good (probably a single earth gem)  Yes. I got a new hero unit! He’s a giant (all my heroes are giants) but he also has a bunch of water paths, which I do not need. I’ll set him to research until I can figure out what the hell I can do with him.  I also lost a province to an independant invasion, which is a mild issue. I need to retake it, but I also want to set up an invasion of another nearby power. Hrm.  Nasy, vicious, vine ogres and men.   Ok. I’ll try to deal with both at once and divide up my forces. Rafa, the Kohen Gadol will deal with the independant invasion, while my prophet, Hitler’s Worst Nightmare will launch a completely surprise invasion of Burlap. Coincidentally I’ve been mentioning that I’ll be retaking that province in IRC quite a lot. I wonder if he’ll send troops to reinforce the province? I guess we’ll find out!  End Turn!
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Aug 24, 2015 20:21
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fool_of_sound posted:Unless you're really trying to rush something, most players only do research when they have excess money/fort turns during year 1. Having good expansion is generally much more useful. Most of my forts turns starting from turn 1 are used to make mages. Only rarely do I make a commander instead if I really want to save a turn. I guess I could not make mages and spam troops but you'll rarely have the resources at the very start and when you have your cap circle you should have enough money to make a mage generally.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:23
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Yeah uh I make a lot of researchers in Y1. Yes, some of them get sent out for bless duty but for the most part they stay at home reading books while indy commanders shuffle people around.
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Aug 24, 2015 20:32
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For those following this thread who may have never, or nearly never, played before and are interested in trying, a new beginner game has gone up. Check the Dominions 4 thread in the Private Game Servers section for more details.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:21
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ChickenWing posted:Yeah uh I make a lot of researchers in Y1. Yes, some of them get sent out for bless duty but for the most part they stay at home reading books while indy commanders shuffle people around. Yeah you prioritize expansion while using as few capital commander recruitment turns as possible, and then immediately switch over to a research mage ASAP, which should happen sometime in the first year.
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Aug 24, 2015 21:23
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uh isn't getting a W5 natural mage a big deal isn't that, like, really good
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Aug 24, 2015 21:25
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V. Illych L. posted:uh isn't getting a W5 natural mage a big deal It'd be great if I had any way to take advantage of it. I have very few water gems, no immediate access to water and I'm not going to side track my research to aim for any decent water spells. Plus the best summons need to happen underwater if I understand the spells correctly (this is not a solid bet)
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Aug 24, 2015 21:36
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Lord Koth posted:For those following this thread who may have never, or nearly never, played before and are interested in trying, a new beginner game has gone up. Check the Dominions 4 thread in the Private Game Servers section for more details. fool_of_sound posted:Since we have a few newbies kicking around, announcing PoorTasteInGames, a MA newbie game. Barding costs and summoned creature upkeep are removed (so heavy cavalry is better and Shinuyama/Bandar Log don't have to pay upkeep on their summons), and the following nations are banned:
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Aug 24, 2015 22:04
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With his mages, he's probably looking to go evo-heavy. Since he's not going to risk his one-of-a-kind mage in battle, he's a bit wasted right now. Eventually, he could try to cast some good summons (maybe with an empower for cross-path), or try for the w globals. However, since draft games are high-powered, it's more important to be ready now. So research and maybe site searching is what he'll do.
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Aug 24, 2015 22:07
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Baudin posted:
 Gem Deposits increase a province's income by 75 pounds of gold! So this is a pretty drat good find.V. Illych L. posted:uh isn't getting a W5 natural mage a big deal Extremely, with water cloak and water ring that takes you to W7 which lets you cast The Best Global: Anger Waters. Also a ton of useful buffs.
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Aug 25, 2015 01:41
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Neruz posted:Extremely, with water cloak and water ring that takes you to W7 which lets you cast The Best Global: Anger Waters. Also a ton of useful buffs. Angry Waters is kinda bad now. You hardly ever get size 4+ elementals now and you only get like half as many attempts. It's pretty much only good for popping scouts.
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Aug 25, 2015 01:45
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fool_of_sound posted:Angry Waters is kinda bad now. You hardly ever get size 4+ elementals now and you only get like half as many attempts. It's pretty much only good for popping scouts. Because making it effectively impossible for enemies to get reliable scouting information on you as well as forcing them to use real commanders instead of cheapo indie commanders if they want to reliably attack you is obviously bad 
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Aug 25, 2015 01:53
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He's obviously comparing it to the old version that was basically a game winner by itself. Don't be difficult.
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Aug 25, 2015 02:04
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It has a neat condition now where rivers or coasts have larger elementals. Though I've not used it since the nerf.
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Aug 25, 2015 02:09
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V. Illych L. posted:uh isn't getting a W5 natural mage a big deal that dude can cast every water spell in the game, but baudin will need a lot of research and gem income to take full advantage of that. water can be kind of an iffy path, too, vengeful water aside
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Aug 25, 2015 04:17
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To be fair, it still kills fair amounts of other things - either directly or indirectly. Maybe not as well as before, but they can still luck into crits, or just jump something with no real defenses or paths. Hell, for mages I've found those with A access have a tendency to cast Shock Wave a decent amount of the time when the elemental moves next to them. Despite the fact that they likely take damage too. In a recent game, Spooky was losing a decent number of Vanjarls and Vanadrotts over time simply due to them killing themselves. And if someone has a clump of researchers that end up under your dominion for whatever reason, water elementals can wreck havoc.
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Aug 25, 2015 04:55
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Even after the nerf Vengeful Waters is still one of the best globals in the game, both for how easy it is to cast and how good it is to have. Before the nerf it was just blatantly op, now it's merely amazing.
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Aug 25, 2015 04:59
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Baudin posted:
w7 Falling Frost if you're going down evo: Range: 25 Area of effect: 5+ [1/lvl] Number of effects: 1 Fatigue cost: 20- Damage: 17+ otherwise you could do frost fend + grip of winter for 3 gems. turn 14: during the space between turns the following diplomacy happened: <thespo> .tell fleurs hey let's do a minotaurs nap until end of year 2 --homero-- fleurs said 9 hours, 24 minutes ago in #dom4goons: sure, are you the greenflagged one <thespo> .tell fleurs yeah, I'm on the otherside of what's left of swastika nation this is good because holy poo poo fleurs has like half the map plus it gives me time to concentrate on Burlap. idiot fucker BMC claimed the throne of gaia so a bunch of foresty bullshit is going to randomly attack a bunch of provs. Burlap did not attack that throne, so his dumb army is hiding somewhere. Samog, my prophet, has a fuckload of crossbows and is heading for the northern throne. I hope it's a cool one! Fleurs has basically swallowed up iloveu at this point, only like three provs left. Sending in mighty pig to take Heartmourn Wastes. Next turn a joint force is going to take that cave since there's a bunch of bats and axemans in there. 
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Aug 25, 2015 05:26
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Crossposting my victory meme to this thread. I'm willing to let a newbie sub into my winning position if they promise not to go for the instant throne victory but actually play to conquer.
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Aug 25, 2015 17:58
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water dude can cast grip of winter, but it won't be as good as heat from hell in that heat dominion + you can't have both up at the same time
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Aug 25, 2015 21:58
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Since it's probably going to be relevant shortly let's talk about Morlockia, possibly the only nation worse than OP's. Capital Only Mage: Camazotz [img]http://lpix.org/2189044/caponlymage.PNG[/img] This is the other, less good kind of Camazotz, and thus under draft rules is technically a different unit. Same things apply as before: weak for a cap mage, but not slow to recruit; death and blood are both nice paths; flying mages are cool. Not the kind of cap only mage I favor but a reasonable choice. Anywhere Mages: Hurin Priest and Diabolist  Really loving overpriced skelespammers. Death 2+ mages can repeat cast the spell Horde of Skeletons, which means that they can swarm the battlefield with piles of bones that can beat anything that doesn't have a strategy to deal with it. Unfortunately, it's a mage-priest, which means it has the Sacred tag, which means it's pretty expensive for a mage that you really want to be able to spam. To be fair, it can get an Air random, which mean it can do the job of 'flying Rain of Stones caster', which is very nasty, but kinda runs counter to what Burlap wants to be doing. It's an ok choice I guess, but not good. http://lpix.org/2189042/anywheremage_2.PNG Diabolists own; too bad Burlap took Death scales, and thus can't effectively do bloodspam. Diabolists are excellent researchers who can easily be converted into battlemages, summoners, or item crafters, thanks to the inherent power of Blood magic. They can cast the powerful Summon Imps and Leech spells, summon the very useful Fiery Imps outside of battle, and can craft both Lightless Lanterns (best research item) and Sanguine Dousing Rods (improved blood hunting) without any investment whatsoever. As it stands, I guess Baudin can use them to power Blood Sacrifice, which is powerful, but probably won't save him. Other Commanders: Blindlord, Runancha, and Minister of Rituals  A fairly powerful but extremely expensive commander that has the very rare Magical Leadership, allowing him to lead certain summoned and recruitable creatures that can normally only be led by mages in this case Blindfighters, moderately decent elite troops. I guess they make for pretty strong PD, if you're into that kind of thing, but otherwise they probably aren't worth the money.  Flying scout. Useful, though arguably less useful that a scout that can be recruited outside of forts.  Ok, to be fair to Burlap this is probably the best Holy 1 priest in the game. Having them around increases you chance of getting good events, reduces your chance of getting bad events, and increases the number of events you get. Having on fort somewhere spamming these might be beneficial in the long run. Probably not a great pick when you have Blood Sacrifice though. Capital Only Troop: Earthbound  Powerful but easily counterable, Earthbound are nasty with a good bless (like Earth or Fire), but are extremely resource taxing. Their big problem is their massive encumbrance score, which means that they rapidly become exhausted in battle then get killed; pretty easy to take advantage of with the proper spells. An Earth bless helps a lot with this, plus improved one of their existing strengths: their high armor score. Anywhere Troops: Blindfighter, Agarthan Sapper, Agarthan Heavy Crossbowman, Raven Guard, Agarthan Heavy Infantry, Troglodytes  Strong but too expensive to be used regularly outside the early game, where Earthbound are probably more useful anyway. Decent PD though.  Really overpriced. They can only throw their Cave Fire once per battle, and it's short range, inaccurate, and not that powerful. They're also really expensive for sieging when you could have drafted literally any Pale One instead for half the price.  Way too resource intensive for a crossbowman, especially an inaccurate one. I guess it's nice that they are hard to kill with arrows?  Flying troops are nice, but they're much better on the alpha strike, which means a lot of them and that means cheap, preferably armed with spears. This guy ain't either of those.  Pretty ok arrow catchers   Elephants but better imo. Less tanky but braver, and half the price. These make great flankers to your main army, and can do a ton of damage to non-giants, oh wait... National Gimmick: Blood Sacrifice The most overpowered mechanic in the game, stolen by a nation that can barely make use of it. Blood sacrifice allows priests to sacrifice blood slaves based on their holy levels at temple to generate additional temple checks every turn. With even a low level blood economy, it's easy to have a massive dompush that is all but uncounterable by many other nations. This is great for killing enemy caps that would be difficult to siege, as well as spreading nasty dominion based Globals. Too bad Burlap is in almost no position to take advantage of this.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:35
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God that IS a terrible nation. Like if you wanted a skelespammer there were still LA Sauromancers, who can also all Bane Fire as well. And they can rarely end up with some scary high D levels.
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Aug 26, 2015 01:45
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Troglodytes are really hard to use well; with good positioning they will stomp all over indies with ease but with poor positioning they will get utterly mangled and you will lose them all to a bunch of deer tribe. On the Sappers; they're 20 gold for 8.21 siege strength for a 10:4.1 gold to siege strength ratio. Pale One Militias are a better ratio, being 7 gold for 3.44 siege strength which gives them a 10:4.9 ratio, plus Pale Ones don't eat which is super useful for sieging. That said only one person can get militias, everyone else has to settle for one of the 10g pale ones who have a worse ratio than the Sappers at 10:3.44, though they still don't need to eat. Thus ultimately Sappers are actually very cost efficient for sieging, though the fact that they need to eat is a definite downside and is why Pale Ones are so freaking good at sieging.
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Aug 26, 2015 03:45
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Nuclearmonkee posted:This guide is the best guide ever made. It was made for dom3 but still works. That should have been a gimmick god in some game or another. The flavor for it is beautiful: A bunch of noble frost giants all get suckered into worshipping a lifeless rock, and every month they heap more and more sacks of gold around it and pray to it for salvation, receiving nary a response. After about a year of this, a monkey horde shows up and kicks their asses.
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Aug 26, 2015 04:02
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Just going to point out that Blind Fighters are absolutely horrible, and I have no idea why one would take them. They also have that same issue that Earthbound do of having Enc 10, but lack the reinvig that helps the former out. Blindlords have that magic leadership, which can make them valuable - I took them in the other draft game - but generally that's only in specific circumstances. Like my special is MA Agartha's spells, so I needed someone to lead Magma Children and statues around even early on. Generally there's nothing in the base spell list you really need a basic commander with magic leadership for though, and if they were taken for Blind Fighters, I repeat that Blind Fighters are absolute trash. If you want high prot, go for MA Ulm stuff, or knights, or anything but dudes that have Enc 10. Especially since they're only wielding bloody short swords.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:31
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Yeah all that armor is very deceptive because they'll quickly hit the fatigue point where it stops really helping anymore.
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Aug 26, 2015 05:50
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The other reason Earthbound can get away with Enc 10 is that ranged attacks don't cost any encumbrance so they only start building up enc after having first spent a few turns shooting you full of bolts.
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Aug 26, 2015 06:42
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Yeah and at least they can't fly and thus don't suffer from The Caelian Problem. So I don't know if it's still this way but Caelian troops were pretty poo poo in dom3 because of a combination of factors: 1) All Caelians have terrible encumbrance because they're weak birdymans. This seems to still be the case in 4. 2) Using flying in combat cost fatigue, so they pick up fatigue even faster. 3) Caelians were pretty universally poo poo at fighting. So generally what would happen is you'd want an alpha strike from them and instead they'd fly in, feebly swing at something failing to kill it with their noodle arms, then they'd get splatted. I suspect this isn't quite so bad in dom4 since there seems to have been a patch entirely dedicated to making Caelum have strategies not 100% dependent on hitting things with lightning bolts (which while it is a good trick does have counterplays).
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Aug 26, 2015 14:43
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Caelians are better than they used to be; they're still lovely weak birdymans but they get huge charge bonuses on the first strike with their ice lances and their equipment has been tweaked so their enc isn't quite as horrible as it once was.
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Aug 26, 2015 14:47
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Caelum pd is great how the poor militia birdmen fly in and get shot in the back by their archers.
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Aug 26, 2015 14:54
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Decrepus posted:Caelum pd is great how the poor militia birdmen fly in and get shot in the back by their archers. Ironically, you can prevent this poo poo with scripting. Scripts for firing allow archers to stop firing and start advancing until they can hit something else instead. (Of course they could still all miss and hit their own troops, but that's how the cooky crumbles sometimes.)
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Aug 26, 2015 15:42
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