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.12.5 is out: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-101 Also, I got a bug fixed in this round: http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15241
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Aug 28, 2015 21:16
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FISHMANPET posted:.12.5 is out: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-101 Quite a screed in the update. In fcatorio news: holy cow does Bob's mod complicate getting started. About 4 hours in and green science is only mostly automated. I say mostly because you need oil to fully automate green science and I don't have oil yet so I'm making do with a chest full of wood feeding the circuit board assembler until I can get synthetic wood from oil.
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Aug 28, 2015 22:11
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This was recorded a few minutes ago, perhaps this problem is fixed there although I don't see it in the changelog. OK so here's the ~30 second vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ss5t5Go-4c Mute the sound, forgot to do that while recording. Two problems, occasionally the stone furnace makes iron plate instead of copper plate resulting in my research coming to a halt. And why can't I place the splitter? Thanks for any help!!!!
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Aug 28, 2015 22:59
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Lorini posted:This was recorded a few minutes ago, perhaps this problem is fixed there although I don't see it in the changelog. Mining drills collect resourses from their footprint +1 square all the way around them. There's an iron patch to the top right of your bottom drill and its getting the iron from that.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:07
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The first is the miner has in it's range a deposit of iron ore (it's 5x5, one space out from the actual building), so it'll occasionally mine that up and deposit in your furnace. The second is you need to first take out a belt before placing the splitter.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:07
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lol (bolding mine)quote:The way to slavery
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Aug 28, 2015 23:09
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Sage Grimm posted:The first is the miner has in it's range a deposit of iron ore (it's 5x5, one space out from the actual building), so it'll occasionally mine that up and deposit in your furnace. Thanks all!!! Didn't know about the 5xt thing, I'll fix it. I knew I was missing something with that splitter!!! P.S. and thanks Windows 10 for making recording so simple!!!!! Love it!
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Aug 28, 2015 23:10
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Also holy poo poo this dev should not have blurted that out in the blog. He's so drat ignorant of what taxes are and what the grant was about.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:20
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Samopsa posted:lol (bolding mine)  On reflection, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the author of a game about single-handedly bootstrapping your way from being a dude with a pickaxe to Tony Stark, Captain of Industry is a libertarian anti-tax whackjob.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:45
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It might be specifically an EU thing, mind. Euroskepticism is sadly popular all over the continent. It's all to easy to only see the EU doing anything when it's arbitrary or restrictive, since those are the only things that get talked about. Well, that and immigration.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:49
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Tenebrais posted:It might be specifically an EU thing, mind. Euroskepticism is sadly popular all over the continent. It's all to easy to only see the EU doing anything when it's arbitrary or restrictive, since those are the only things that get talked about. Well, that and immigration. "Taxes are theft/slavery" is a pretty common refrain in US politics too (see, for example, the Tea Party). Up here (  ) it mostly seems restricted to the occasional Sovereign Citizen/Freeman-on-the-Land nutjob, AFAICT.
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Aug 28, 2015 23:54
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Sage Grimm posted:Also holy poo poo this dev should not have blurted that out in the blog. He's so drat ignorant of what taxes are and what the grant was about. I'm not from the Eurozone so this is the first I've heard about it. What is the tax about? ToxicFrog posted:
It is wildly excessive but given the direct connection to his work, livelihood, and passion I can understand that. I don't think he's necessarily an anti-tax whackjob, the screed is targeting a specific expense. Most folks hate way more than just one of the ways tax dollars are spent, he could be just fine with most government spending. A popular complaint is the millions my government spent studying the social patterns of pigeons.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:00
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3.2 million euros is kind of a hilariously small amount of money to be mad about the government spending, that's not even enough to piss it away to Accenture in some lovely IT project that ends up terribly.
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Aug 29, 2015 01:20
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LLSix posted:I'm not from the Eurozone so this is the first I've heard about it. What is the tax about? He just thinks that it's unfair that the taxes they pay as a small company are subsidising the work of a much larger company, and in his frustration seems to be piling up false assertions about it, maybe to try to rationalise the anger/frustration, there are some things about it that are lovely but for the most part he's just gone on an inappropriate public rant. The truth of the matter is that there are a bunch of subsidies for various types of media that companies can apply for, and they're assessed based on meeting various criteria. There are some legitimate gripes to be had about how it is handled, the main thing he's grumpy about is the exclusion of games that aren't telling a story and then there's a time exemption, which would exclude the deluge of lovely and perpetually-"early access" pure-sandbox games that have cropped up in recent years from applying, the game is supposed to "release" within 30 months of applying, just the former would exclude factorio, but the latter could also(though apparently they plan to release next year?). And take, for example, this part of the eligibility section of the subsidy/grant info: quote:The contribution is between EUR 10.000 and EUR 150.000 for the concept and project Personally I'd take that to mean that the intention of the subsidy is to help fund new games and get them to the point where you have a proper proof of concept that you can pitch to a publisher or the public(early access, kickstarter, etc), or to otherwise fund what we could consider to be the base-game rather than follow-up content for games that have already been released. Also the amount of money they're talking about there is pretty significant, they'll cover up-to €150k or %50(whichever is less) of a game's estimated budget, for the factorio guys this would have been a pretty huge chunk of income, remember they started the funding for the game back in 2012 on an indiegogo campaign where they asked for €17k(and got €21). That 150k is more than 10% of factorio's lifetime sales income(still under 100k total sales), versus being 7% of the budget for an expansion of a game that sold 6million copies in 6 weeks. I can see why he would be salty about that, using their weekly update section to go on a public rant is dumb and embarrassing though.
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Aug 29, 2015 03:41
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Here's a mod I wanted so bad in my last game, and it looks like the devs had the same idea because they added the neccessary hooks for it in 12.5: http://www.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=15308 Autolaunch your rockets. So simple, so amazing.
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Aug 29, 2015 04:23
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LLSix posted:It is wildly excessive but given the direct connection to his work, livelihood, and passion I can understand that. I don't think he's necessarily an anti-tax whackjob, the screed is targeting a specific expense. Most folks hate way more than just one of the ways tax dollars are spent, he could be just fine with most government spending. A popular complaint is the millions my government spent studying the social patterns of pigeons. "Stolen from other people through taxes" "They decide what kind of food should be supported and what kind shouldn't be. They put quotas of production because they know better how much is enough. The list goes on, and it is all getting worse every year and if we let it go like this for another 20 years, we are all going to be just slaves." The game grants may have been the trigger for this, but that sounds less like "targeting a specific expense" and a lot more like the usual "taxes are theft, government regulation is slavery" rhetoric. Although it's possible that I'm reading too much into it after spending too long in the USPol thread.
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Aug 29, 2015 11:33
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And all that while they're one Steam-listing away from being filthy rich. I guess the attitude comes early.
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Aug 29, 2015 12:07
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The government paying for games (other than the military games the pentagon paid to have developed) in the US would be a disaster. Ted Cruz and his buddies would threaten to shut down the government unless only games based on his interpretation of the Bible were funded.
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Aug 29, 2015 17:16
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Playing Devil's Advocate here but maybe English isn't the guy's first language and he doesn't realize how ridiculous and hyperbolic "if this continues in 20 years we will all be slaves" sounds in English? If not he needs to run for President against Trump, he'd fit right in over here.
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Aug 29, 2015 18:23
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Network Pesci posted:Playing Devil's Advocate here but maybe English isn't the guy's first language and he doesn't realize how ridiculous and hyperbolic "if this continues in 20 years we will all be slaves" sounds in English? If not he needs to run for President against Trump, he'd fit right in over here. I read that blog on the bus home yesterday and while the hyperbole is pretty high, I'll cut him some slack and just ignore it I think. Being Czech (though who knows how old) he may well have more experience of heavy handed monolithic governmental apparatus than many of us. I wouldn't be surprised if people in the ex-russian pawn states were extremely sensitive to 'big government' type moves in general and eyeing off the EU with suspicion. On a more factorio note: the update broke a couple of mods I was using but they're fixed already (I'm trying out treefarm and crafted artifacts - no aliens).
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Aug 29, 2015 18:41
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Lorini posted:The government paying for games (other than the military games the pentagon paid to have developed) in the US would be a disaster. Ted Cruz and his buddies would threaten to shut down the government unless only games based on his interpretation of the Bible were funded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios
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Aug 29, 2015 18:57
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Bailed on my Bob's mod game after getting red circuit equivalents up. I like all the new end products, but there are so many intermediate steps that scaling production up is a nightmare. I think it would be a lot better with maybe half as many base materials and intermediates.
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Aug 29, 2015 19:29
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I was clearly talking Fed and that state got what it deserved. That won't happen again.
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Aug 29, 2015 22:15
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I don't know if there are specific video game grants, but there are countless tax breaks for video game companies at every level from the city up to the Federal level. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/technology/rich-tax-breaks-bolster-video-game-makers.html
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Aug 29, 2015 22:21
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LLSix posted:Bailed on my Bob's mod game after getting red circuit equivalents up. I like all the new end products, but there are so many intermediate steps that scaling production up is a nightmare. I think it would be a lot better with maybe half as many base materials and intermediates. The game's progression is kind of weird to me in general - once you get to green science packs, there's a ton of things to research but not a whole lot you can build until you can actually get the blue packs / oil production up. Maybe it's just the way I progress? I mean my path is generally burner miners into smelters -> 14/10 steam power -> Temp Red Packs -> mining drills into 8x2 row of iron, copper smelters -> 4 steel smelters -> Bus creation -> Steel furnace upgrade -> Red + Green Packs from bus -> aux factories (red belts, gears, green circuits, pipes) -> AP ammo -> A million oil/fluid researches while I clear out nearby biter nests But then it sort of devolves into "well i need an entire oil production setup to do anything else, it seems like the things that open up with "just" green packs require higher tier things to make, like batteries, red circuits, and I feel like once you get oil you might as well just get blue packs because then you can get bots and solar power and advanced oil processing. I end up sitting for quite a while with nothing to research because I'm trying to get the million different factories and assembly lines up all at the same time.
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Aug 29, 2015 22:40
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Yeah, same for me. I'll research basic oil processing and then build a temp refinery to generate enough resources to get my 75 blue science to research advanced oil processing and then I'll get my real refinery but then all of a sudden I'm making this leapfrog from belting everything up to red and green science to suddenly building robots to feed blue science and it does seem like kind of a weird jump.
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Aug 29, 2015 23:26
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That's the part I just burn out on. All of a sudden everything has a million dependencies.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:19
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Bhodi posted:I end up sitting for quite a while with nothing to research because I'm trying to get the million different factories and assembly lines up all at the same time. I usually waste this time by researching *everything possible* that doesn't require blue science.
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Aug 30, 2015 01:55
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Truga posted:I usually waste this time by researching *everything possible* that doesn't require blue science. At that point, I end up with so much crap I've researched that I can now build that it's overwhelming. The expansion curve is just weird. Maybe if things took longer to research.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:59
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I just spend so much time stopping and thinking, especially since every time I play I'm trying to do something different. Which is interesting when a lot of my designs are on autopilot. I have a pretty standard refinery setup (made even easier with blueprint strings) where the oil is refined and then batteries, plastics, solid fuel, and anything needing lubricant is all made. But this time I'm trying to go all trains all the time to an even more extreme. So I have a station with the oil refineries, and then auto pilot took me to producing batteries and plastics there, but is that actually something I want, or should I split it up more? A few requirements for a design, I'm thinking:
So I'm thinking, the refinery complex is just for refining the oil, and it should output Heavy Oil, Light Oil, and Petroleum. There will be a Heavy Oil station that would take Heavy Oil and output Lubricant and Light Oil, a Light Oil station that will output solid fuel (used only for the rocket) and petroleum, and a Petroleum station that outputs plastics and either sulfur or sulfuric acid. Then a station that takes either Sulfur or Sulfiric Acid and outputs Batteries and Advanced Circuits. I've got a pretty interesting situation on this map, my starting area is a large island with a small link to the "main land." It had enough resources to get me started with a small starter bus, but there's not much room for railways, and I'm using RSO so things are far away, so I have to figure out how to just build a new factory from scratch using advanced technology, rather than building organically from the start.  Map Seed: 2912979974
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Aug 30, 2015 04:13
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FISHMANPET posted:
As for your concerns, I have a few recommendations. First, your concern for shipping oils. While you CAN use lots of underground pipes (as a quirk, the fluids teleport to the other end of the pipe instead of having a tracked underground bit hidden away), at RSO distances it's probably not worth it. The way I see it, you can either just ship oil barrels from all of your distant pumpjacks, or their products. The only products worth shipping though are Solid Fuel (for dedicated Solid Fuel refineries, crack the Heavy Oil to Light Oil) and maaaaybe Sulfur but Sulfuric acid is super easy to make from Petroleum anyway. Everything else just uses so much of other materials that you're better off shipping the oil to your main factory and going from there. If you go with shipping Oil Barrels, just make enough barrels to fill your train about twice over. Don't do what I do and waste a ton of steel from an automated factory and forgetting how long I had it running. I couldn't unload my empty barrels at the refinery because I made so many empty barrels there sitting in line already.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:51
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I should add I'm using the Rail Tanker mod so shipping liquids is pretty easy. But the more I think about it, the more I think it would be easier to just ship in coal, iron plate, and copper plate to make batteries and plastics, and... I don't know about the rest but I'll worry about that later. Right now I just need more batteries for my research, as the oil in my home base is all gone.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:03
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FISHMANPET posted:I should add I'm using the Rail Tanker mod so shipping liquids is pretty easy. But the more I think about it, the more I think it would be easier to just ship in coal, iron plate, and copper plate to make batteries and plastics, and... I don't know about the rest but I'll worry about that later. Right now I just need more batteries for my research, as the oil in my home base is all gone. You can also use Speed Modules and those AoE Module Buildings (name I can't remember) to get more oil from dried up wells. It will eat the poo poo out of your power supply, but it'll help.
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Aug 30, 2015 15:07
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Krysmphoenix posted:You can also use Speed Modules and those AoE Module Buildings (name I can't remember) to get more oil from dried up wells. It will eat the poo poo out of your power supply, but it'll help. Put it all on separate solar panels, and it will only run during the night, but be free. The beacons that is. Be "free" as in, the boost will only be active during the day, when I assume you have thousands of solar panels to run your stuff. Also, production module before the oil well dries up, speed module once it's empty.
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Aug 30, 2015 17:03
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FISHMANPET posted:Yeah, same for me. I'll research basic oil processing and then build a temp refinery to generate enough resources to get my 75 blue science to research advanced oil processing and then I'll get my real refinery but then all of a sudden I'm making this leapfrog from belting everything up to red and green science to suddenly building robots to feed blue science and it does seem like kind of a weird jump. I agree, the step up from pack 2 to pack 3 is pretty hefty. You go from trivial 1, easy-ish 2 and the WTF 3? The game also has way too much that requires electric circuits too, it's easily the biggest part of my late factories. I hope some balance passes happen before too long.
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Aug 31, 2015 20:19
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I just tried using red wire to make smart connections. Factories that I can set up to make limited runs so that I'm not using all of my materials to make water pumps and gun turrets? Yes please!
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Aug 31, 2015 21:39
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You can also limit chest size to make a really simple limiter, without smart inserters or wires. Just hit the red X on the chest screen and limit it to one or two stacks, all inserters won't insert past that point. Great for early game or just being lazy.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:51
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Uncomfortable Gaze posted:You can also limit chest size to make a really simple limiter, without smart inserters or wires. Just hit the red X on the chest screen and limit it to one or two stacks, all inserters won't insert past that point. Great for early game or just being lazy.  How did I not know about this?!
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Aug 31, 2015 22:16
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I have real trouble ever deconstructing my initial factory, I'll just build a second one instead with the plan of eventually destroying the first one, but strangely the scope and scale of the second factory keeps growing...
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Aug 31, 2015 22:44
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It's not like you ever need to remove the initial factory. Space isn't exactly at a premium, unless it's occupying an important tactical position or something. Just leave it as a relic. Pave the world. Nuke the whales.
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Aug 31, 2015 23:01
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