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Rudoku posted:It got watchable when they knew the show was getting cancelled. It finally had jokes and I liked the final episode. Someone at Cartoon Newtork had to have been a Puffy AmiYumi fanboy/fangirl or something. It felt like they were everywhere for a bit: they had their own show (well, a show based on them), they did the Teen Titans theme song. A lot of their stuff was on the little spots and commercials they had between shows. It was kinda weird. Not even necessarily bad, just... strange.
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Aug 30, 2015 23:52
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Jsor posted:Yes, thank you. One of the reasons I kept watching Steven Universe was it kept being positive and characters in the show were actually nice and supportive to each other. I had gotten exhausted of cartoons for a while around the mid 2000s because everything was a constant barrage of assholes and cynicism. To some degree it started in the Cartoon Cartoon era; Dexter and Ed Edd n Eddy were definitely like this, but for a while it felt like every show had to be about bad things happening to assholes and I got tired of it. I'm a sucker for Hero's Adventure stuff so my main issue with that era (other than literally growing out of the demographic) was that there wasn't really any of that except Ben 10. I won't say it's the serial aspect that appealed to me either because I think I only ever caught Ben 10 on reruns.
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Aug 30, 2015 23:53
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Jsor posted:Someone at Cartoon Newtork had to have been a Puffy AmiYumi fanboy/fangirl or something. It felt like they were everywhere for a bit: they had their own show (well, a show based on them), they did the Teen Titans theme song. A lot of their stuff was on the little spots and commercials they had between shows. It was kinda weird. Not even necessarily bad, just... strange. I can only imagine that it was Time Warner's brief and extremely poorly executed attempt to have their own kids' TV stars like Disney does.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:01
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computer parts posted:I'm a sucker for Hero's Adventure stuff so my main issue with that era (other than literally growing out of the demographic) was that there wasn't really any of that except Ben 10. I watched that show because Colonel Campbell was a cool alien fighting uncle.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:06
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I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:14
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mycot posted:I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know. The Fairly Oddparents, maybe?
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Aug 31, 2015 00:20
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Jsor posted:Someone at Cartoon Newtork had to have been a Puffy AmiYumi fanboy/fangirl or something. It felt like they were everywhere for a bit: they had their own show (well, a show based on them), they did the Teen Titans theme song. A lot of their stuff was on the little spots and commercials they had between shows. It was kinda weird. Not even necessarily bad, just... strange. IIRC, that show was the pet project of Sam Register, the head of CN at the time who was a huge fan of the band.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:29
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mycot posted:I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know. I mean it was fairly common even during the 90s. Looking at the Cartoon Cartoon shows, you have:
and then a bunch of random stuff. Not the best track record if you're trying to avoid assholes.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:44
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Camp Lazlo was bland as gently caress. Nothing like Rocko's Modern Life. I only watched a few episodes of Class of 3000, but I thought it had some pretty decent writing. And I probably would have liked My Gym Partner's a Monkey a lot more if it wasn't for the fact that Tom Kenny has like the most grating voice in the industry.
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Aug 31, 2015 00:44
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mycot posted:I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know. I don't know how much it carried over into animation, but the biggest sitcom of the 90s was Seinfeld, a show which basically hinged its premise on the main characters being jerks. That could have led writers of kids' shows to see a formula for comedy that worked and try to emulate it. (Of course, Seinfeld did by no means originate the idea of the jerk protagonist, and there are plenty of live-action comedies still around that utilize jerk protagonists, but I'm just spitballing theories since writers do tend to pull from other popular things of the time)
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Aug 31, 2015 01:09
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computer parts posted:I mean it was fairly common even during the 90s. I can totally buy it just being a natural extension of the Nineties, yeah. Powderpuff Girls isn't actually much different from the other stuff on that list, despite the super sugary appearance. Seinfeld did cross my mind, but none of these shows seem to go for the banality (they all seem way more wacky, I guess) which is the other main part of Seinfeld's comedy.
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Aug 31, 2015 01:28
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Jsor posted:Someone at Cartoon Newtork had to have been a Puffy AmiYumi fanboy/fangirl or something. It felt like they were everywhere for a bit: they had their own show (well, a show based on them), they did the Teen Titans theme song. A lot of their stuff was on the little spots and commercials they had between shows. It was kinda weird. Not even necessarily bad, just... strange. It was at the height of the Naruto/Bleach anime boom, they wanted in on it by hiring their own jpop idols. Then they figured out that kids will watch whatever is put in front of them and that the actual fans of anime specifically would just go on the internet to load up on pirated episodes and weird porn and they stopped bothering because they could get much more merchandising money from original shows mycot posted:I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know. Yeah I think a lot of it is just the Zeitgeist, probably combined with hiring a bunch of indie comic writers for the AT batch of shows icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 01:31
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HorseRenoir posted:Camp Lazlo was such a bland vanilla-paste nothing of a show. One of my biggest disappointments as a child was being a huge Rocko fan and desperately trying convince myself that it was funny. How old of a "child" could you be that you were old enough to have watched Rocko's Modern Life at the time that Camp Lazlo came out? The shows were like 15 years apart. computer parts posted:I mean it was fairly common even during the 90s. Dexter wasn't really any more of an rear end in a top hat for his attitude toward Deedee than The Brain was for his attitude toward Pinky. raditts fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 03:04
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Brain was WAY more of an rear end in a top hat than Dexter. Dexter just wanted to be left along to do his experiment and Deedee just constantly hosed with him. He was a dick about it but she wasn't much better. Brain brought Pinky into his plans while looking down on him and blaming most of his own failings on him. Meanwhile Pinky was just did his best to be helpful and friendly. I like the episode where Brain lets Pinky do the plan and it totally works until he feels the need to take over, at which point it completely falls apart.
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Aug 31, 2015 03:24
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Not really a kids show, but I want my opinion to be made known that Bee and Puppycat kinda sucks? The pilot looked like it was going to be a neat parallel to Steven Universe and it's just kinda been weird and twee and boring and bad. Maybe it will pick up but man it's been a disappointing ride so far.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:08
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You have my full agreement there.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:11
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mycot posted:I definitely noticed that period of overwhelmingly jerk based comedy (and the deliberate rejection of it that seems to be going on these days), but I still have no clue what was the cause or reason of it. Was it just the general zeitgeist? Did Mascots with Tude end up turning into mascots that are giant assholes? Is there some massively popular character/show in that time period that I'm forgetting? I don't know. Shrek made more money than god so everybody that made cartoons tried their hand at crass irreverent jerk-rear end protagonists and pop-culture references after that.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:12
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Sockser posted:Not really a kids show, but I want my opinion to be made known that Bee and Puppycat kinda sucks? The pilot looked like it was going to be a neat parallel to Steven Universe and it's just kinda been weird and twee and boring and bad. I honestly thought it was meant to be a parody of magical girl shows like Cardcaptor Sakura. That's definitely the impression the pilot gives. Apparently they were being sincere about wanting to make one of those, and it's awful. Camp Lazlo was a great little show, except for one thing: Lazlo. He's boring as paste. He's supposed to the wacky main character who bounces off everyone else, but he's outshined by his cabin mates, by the rival, by Scoutmaster Lumpus, by any random character in the show. They should have written him out and made somebody else the putative star. And Foster's was great and I will not listen to anyone who says otherwise. 
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Aug 31, 2015 05:14
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Sockser posted:Not really a kids show, but I want my opinion to be made known that Bee and Puppycat kinda sucks? The pilot looked like it was going to be a neat parallel to Steven Universe and it's just kinda been weird and twee and boring and bad. I don't hate it but yeah the pilot was way better than what's come since and it has been a let down, especially because it's one of the few kickstarters where I didn't give to the most basic "just give me the thing" level. The main problem is Bee kind of went from kind of amusing to just sort of annoying really quickly. It's also in this weird in between place where it's not weird enough to justify how lose and directionless it feels but it's also not normal enough where any effort at an overarching plot doesn't come off as tonally awkward.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:15
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I think Bee and Puppycat is cute
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Aug 31, 2015 05:16
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Sleeveless posted:Shrek made more money than god so everybody that made cartoons tried their hand at crass irreverent jerk-rear end protagonists and pop-culture references after that. Wait, Shrek? I'm not a fan of that franchise, but Shrek wasn't a jerk. He just wanted to be left alone.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:19
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Another strike against Bee and Puppycat, at least to me, is the art direction. I liked it in the pilot, but the changes in the actual episodes were not to my liking.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:27
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Mr Interweb posted:Wait, Shrek? I'm not a fan of that franchise, but Shrek wasn't a jerk. He just wanted to be left alone. Yeah I don't see it; it doesn't have the "a bunch of assholes running into each other" feeling of that sort of cartoon. Maybe that's what happens if you remove the characters from the context of a movie plotline? But you could say that about almost anything; I'll admit I'm biased against this sort of thing because it felt like a lot if cartoons turned into that style out of laziness (later Spongebob). mycot fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 05:31
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There was one subplot in Shrek 4 that I thought was done surprisingly well: Fiona presents as an Ogre for the entire movie, and hides herself during the day because she is leading an Ogre Rebellion against King Rumplestiltskin and doesn't want the other ogres to see her a a weak princess during the day. She became disillusioned with the concept of true love when her's failed to show up, forcing her to rescue herself, which is summarized by a great line between her and Shrek when they 'first' meet (for her) "But... I'm your true love!" "THEN WHERE WERE YOU!?" Edit: I also like how Rumple convinces Shrek to accidentally wish he was never born. Shrek wants things to go back to the way they were due to everything in his life being more complicated now, and him still being somewhat short sighted, and Rumple tells him that he can have all that back if he just allows him to take one day from his life "You were so young, you don't even remember it." He takes the day of Shrek's birth BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 05:52
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Nothing ever actually happens in Bee and PuppyCat. It's all malingering and none of the characters involved have any interest in anything other than lounging around and watching television. It's so dull.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:14
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Sockser posted:Not really a kids show, but I want my opinion to be made known that Bee and Puppycat kinda sucks? The pilot looked like it was going to be a neat parallel to Steven Universe and it's just kinda been weird and twee and boring and bad.
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Aug 31, 2015 06:20
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I remember when that show started y'all couldn't shut the gently caress up about it. Weirdly, the same thing happened with Uncle Grandpa at first so I've just resigned myself to just not understanding you guys sometimes.axleblaze posted:Brain was WAY more of an rear end in a top hat than Dexter. Dexter just wanted to be left along to do his experiment and Deedee just constantly hosed with him. He was a dick about it but she wasn't much better. Brain brought Pinky into his plans while looking down on him and blaming most of his own failings on him. Meanwhile Pinky was just did his best to be helpful and friendly. I like the episode where Brain lets Pinky do the plan and it totally works until he feels the need to take over, at which point it completely falls apart. There was an episode where Brain did a calculation to determine that his plans all failed because of Pinky, so he did a Flowers for Algernon thing to make Pinky intelligent, and then Pinky, in his new intelligence, recognized a flaw in Brain's calculations that determined that Brain himself was the reason his plans all failed.
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Aug 31, 2015 07:32
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Mr Interweb posted:Wait, Shrek? I'm not a fan of that franchise, but Shrek wasn't a jerk. He just wanted to be left alone. The cartoons I mentioned predate it pretty significantly too. I dunno, it's also possible there was just an extreme culture shift away from that sort of stuff. Like I don't think Johnny Bravo would be approved today even though he's (mostly) a well meaning moron.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:32
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Mr Interweb posted:Wait, Shrek? I'm not a fan of that franchise, but Shrek wasn't a jerk. He just wanted to be left alone. Donkey was popular and a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:56
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It's not as though the "perpetually annoyed straight man / joker" / "schlemiel / schlemazel" comedy pairing is particular to any time period, in animation or otherwise. Abbot & Costello and Daffy & Porky are the oldest examples I can think of and I doubt they are even remotely the oldest.
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Aug 31, 2015 13:54
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Yeah, there's nothing new aboput assholes in comedy, it's just at a certain point the assholes became more annoying and central.
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Aug 31, 2015 14:12
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TwoPair posted:I don't know how much it carried over into animation, but the biggest sitcom of the 90s was Seinfeld, a show which basically hinged its premise on the main characters being jerks. That could have led writers of kids' shows to see a formula for comedy that worked and try to emulate it. (Of course, Seinfeld did by no means originate the idea of the jerk protagonist, and there are plenty of live-action comedies still around that utilize jerk protagonists, but I'm just spitballing theories since writers do tend to pull from other popular things of the time) That's not to say that those shows were bad, but I guess they get to be the scapegoat for inspiring lazy rear end in a top hat-comedy shows of the early 2000s. Sockser posted:Not really a kids show, but I want my opinion to be made known that Bee and Puppycat kinda sucks? The pilot looked like it was going to be a neat parallel to Steven Universe and it's just kinda been weird and twee and boring and bad.
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Aug 31, 2015 18:16
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FronzelNeekburm posted:And at the same time as Seinfeld, you had Simpsons, which spent its early days tearing down the traditional '80s family sitcom. The '90s had no shortage of sarcastic meta-commentary comedy shows to choose from. Daria was considered a trailblazer when it came out with its nihilistic attitude about teen and high school life. But now looking at it you just kind of go "LOL that's so 90's".
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Aug 31, 2015 18:25
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They're kind of inseperable because Daria's level of cynicism pretty much epitomized '90s American teen culture, and we all grew up to become snarky thirty-something assholes. I don't think something like Daria would be possible today.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:37
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I feel like you guys are forgetting that Teen Titans Go! Is CN's top rated program.....
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Aug 31, 2015 21:41
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Bass Bottles posted:I feel like you guys are forgetting that Teen Titans Go! Is CN's top rated program.....
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Aug 31, 2015 22:04
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you don't have to pipe up every time someone mentions it, I'm sure no one has forgotten how much that cartoon upsets you
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Aug 31, 2015 22:06
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Bass Bottles posted:I feel like you guys are forgetting that Teen Titans Go! Is CN's top rated program..... Yeah but Robin(who's the biggest rear end in a top hat on that show) regularly gets his comeuppance for being a complete choad(and he's the only one who's constantly an rear end in a top hat, the others are only when the plot calls for it/it would be funny
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Aug 31, 2015 22:23
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Robin in TTG is almost a parody of rear end in a top hat comedy, in that he's not just an rear end in a top hat, he's a goofy rear end in a top hat. The thing about the other shows is that the characters were actually, legitimately abrasive and rude. Unlike Robin who mostly just screams and acts like he has some rare type of brain parasite making him slowly go mad.
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Aug 31, 2015 22:28
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Acne Rain posted:you don't have to pipe up every time someone mentions it, I'm sure no one has forgotten how much that cartoon upsets you It'd be one thing if it actually upset me. The writer's attempts at being petulant and in particular the episodes that are about them having a go at the original and Young Justice have all the offence (and comedic value) of an episode of Teletubbies. I came here expecting a grand old time ("Yeah, it IS stupid that their main bad guy was just this random dood in a mask who they couldn't even name properly in 2003 and, wow, let it go about Young Justice.") and they haven't brought anything as much as a game to the table, let alone their a-game. Hell, making a roast out of Slade should have been the best drat thing about the show but instead they throw that away to rub it in people's faces that they get exactly why the people who are actually pissed at the show and it's success are as they are. I can't wait to see how they squander the open goal of Weird Al voicing Darksied because they're going to have to pull out all the stops to be not funny there. ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 31, 2015 |
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Aug 31, 2015 22:44
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