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fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Lumpen posted:

Yes, to a degree. But still, the most active players in any game tend to flip Town, that is just true, unless someone shitposts their way to the top of the postcount.

It isn't impossible to be a Scum who leads everyone around by the nose, but there are factors inherent in the game that make it really hard to do successfully and very risky to try.

That isn't saying I couldn't pull it off myself or would never try, but in this game I am effortful Town (and claimed and vouched Unconfirmed Mason) and would be a terrible choice for a D1 mislynch unless one prefers a lurkier low-energy game going forward.

I'm not pushing people to lynch you, but when you're talking to new players and saying "I'm doing X, scum wouldn't do X" thats a load of bullshit. Especially for experienced players. Scum would do X, Y or Z.

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Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I'm not pushing people to lynch you, but when you're talking to new players and saying "I'm doing X, scum wouldn't do X" thats a load of bullshit. Especially for experienced players. Scum would do X, Y or Z.
Well, some people do play terribly, do stupid things, and lose the game as Scum, that's true. But it's not bullshit to say to new players "Scum tend to lurk (especially here at SA) because it is the #1 most successful strategy", and to fight against the tide of lurk-enabling (such as piling on active posters), and that's what I'm getting at.

I concede that I am spouting ~general Mafia theory~ because I feel posty.

I do not want to distract from my contention that Rarity is Scum. Her posting is disingenuous, she does not believe her own justification, her bandwagon vote is opportunistic. I would like other people to go back, and look, and evaluate this.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


The only Rarity post that makes me question their alignment is this one:

Rarity posted:

To be fair I didn't realise you were already on 5 votes, but once I did I didn't feel bad about it :v:

which I was reading as half-jokey anyway. :shrug: I mean, the only reason I'm not voting Lumpen is because I don't want to put him at -3 to lynch when we still have like 2 days left

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Someone Awful! posted:

The only Rarity post that makes me question their alignment is this one:


which I was reading as half-jokey anyway. :shrug: I mean, the only reason I'm not voting Lumpen is because I don't want to put him at -3 to lynch when we still have like 2 days left

So you think he is scum? Why?

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Someone Awful! posted:

The only Rarity post that makes me question their alignment is this one:
which I was reading as half-jokey anyway. :shrug: I mean, the only reason I'm not voting Lumpen is because I don't want to put him at -3 to lynch when we still have like 2 days left
You're clearly paying attention and I appreciate you not rushing to vote. I hope you'll feel more confident I'm Town by deadline.

Hopefully Rarity posts more and doesn't just lurk out the rest of the day to escape the heat.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

hi have some time now that i wasn't sure i'd have so i'm gonna re-read a bunch of stuff

my lastread gave me 48 new posts to read and i found lumpen to be trying to strongly lead town which i find not good; not because it is scummy per se but because one person alone is so rarely correct 100% and it tends to drown out other reads

that being said I haven't yet read earlier in the thread so I'm not sure what his arguements are actually based on yet.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

HiipFire posted:

you know, it's really impressive that you think people who are hedgy are scum while thats the exact thing you do in this post

##vote hiipfire

this post is grandstanding. it doesn't actually achieve anything. why is it worded as if it's trying to convince lumpen that he himself is scum?

moreover it comes off to me as hiipfire posting what he thinks a townie would be thinking rather than what a townie would actually think which is

Someone Awful! posted:

Yes, he's generating content, which is good, but is it helpful content? I haven't really learned anything from content game, personally. It seems like an easy route towards looking like a helpful townie while not actually accomplishing much.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Someone Awful! posted:

I dunno, I don't read Lumpen as nervous so much as really really assertive. The way he seems to be trying to control the dialog from the outset has me feeling uncertain. Yes, he's generating content, which is good, but is it helpful content? I haven't really learned anything from content game, personally. It seems like an easy route towards looking like a helpful townie while not actually accomplishing much.

I can't help wondering if I'm getting Townie vibes off of Rarity because I agree with them, though, which is something I'm trying to keep on my guard about.


I've been lurking games on SA for ages, but I've only ever played on EpicMafia, which... wasn't exactly a helpful experience. Like, apparently lynching in D1 is considered scummy there. :psyduck:

this is the towniest post in the game so far

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


fiery_valkyrie posted:

So you think he is scum? Why?

"he" being Lumpen? I thought I explained, his assertive style of posting combined with saying things like "X is how scum would play"-type statements seem like he's trying to lead me to infer that because he's not doing X, he must be town, which gives me a really bad feeling. I don't have a scum reading on anyone else, or much of anything to be honest. I'll reread in a bit and see if I pick up anything.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I'm not pushing people to lynch you, but when you're talking to new players and saying "I'm doing X, scum wouldn't do X" thats a load of bullshit. Especially for experienced players. Scum would do X, Y or Z.

mega agreedo

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Lumpen posted:

I was bored yesterday, and want Mafia action. I want to encourage posting and get the newbies involved.


this rings true though i am not at all convinced that you are doing it in a way that is actually useful

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Kashuno posted:

Lumpen has been pretty nervous for a guy who got a bunch of votes during joke phase. That's all I got for now

lumpen doesn't seem nervous at all imo

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

TMMadman posted:

Alright, so right now it seems like this is a game of guess which vote on Lumpen is scum.

I'm going to go with this one:

##vote Kashuno

This is not my standard joke vote on Kashuno. I think he is actually scum this game.

why

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


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1-800-GAMBLER


Ultra Carp

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Acebuckeye, Chamale, Colonel Corazon, LowellDND and Someone Awful,

what is your previous mafia experience? If you have played mafia before was it online or in real life?

Played Werewolf a bunch of times IRL, never online.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Lumpen posted:

Rarity, I think this post seems disingenuous. Do you really believe I've done anything to "take control of the game" in my 17 posts? I haven't even advocated any lynches. Playing content game gets people to post and creates something to post about. It encourages a more active game, and that is good for Town. I would love for everyone to get super engaged and come out of the gates hard, although I know it's the weekend.

You're also wishy-washy about voting or not. Hesitant.

So I'm wondering if you're Town and struggling with a desire to vote me but it's personal but you don't want to look petty and you think I'm probably Town, or else you're Scum and struggling with the desire to jump on a bandwagon but not wanting to have it look totally unjustified. You don't seem to actually think I may be pursuing "NEFARIOUS PURPOSES hmmmmm" (which I am not, and you are a good enough player hopefully to see that and not really want the game to lurk more). Kashuno is pretty clearly voting for someone he does not think is Scum.

I don't love this post. While I also don't like rarity's pointless "nefarious purposes" thing, the bigger issue here to me is lumpen's response. Specifically, that he finds the callout of trying to control the game incredulous, and then specifically tying the number of posts in. Seriously, lumpen's obviously been taking a strongly aggressive leadership role upon himself. Doesn't need to advocate any lynches at this point in the game and to his own point, the game is young. wasn't a lot to generate real lynch cases from yet. in fact, strongly advocating for lynch on anyone that early is suspicious on its own. it is quite possible to take control of the game while not advocating any lynches early - that's what lumpen is actually doing yet he seems to be saying that taking control of the game requires advocating lynches. it doesn't, he's just driving the discussion.

secondly, the last part of the post is really weird. lumpen is trying to do a very complex analysis of rarity's post and the reasons for it, while also setting up a dichotomy that doesn't at all have to be true. this really rubs me the wrong way. furthermore "you're a good enough player to X" is a really dangerous argument to make at best and hilariously WIFOM at worst. it assumes a ton about how an experienced mafia player would play, that there is a General Correct Strategy or Tactic, and that there wouldn't be some other reason to not follow a generally expected strategy. It's poo poo, through and through.

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Acebuckeye, Chamale, Colonel Corazon, LowellDND and Someone Awful,

what is your previous mafia experience? If you have played mafia before was it online or in real life?

I've played plenty in real life. Never played a match with so many additional roles. I've usually had good luck voting for whoever talks too much right out of the gate so I've thinking of voting lumpen but I'll hang in here a bit longer before I decide anything.

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

I should also say that I'm out of town taking care of family right now so once I get home I'll be able to chime in more.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

His posting is weak. It's a non-content vote on Lumpen which is goes on to say is serious. I don't like it, so I put my vote there.

Then later he explains his "case" boils down Lumpen is acting weird and defensive, plus gut, which doesn't come until after people have already expressed that opinion.

Plus, when Lumpen challenges him, he quickly backs off quoting a second post by Lumpen, but skips over a question about Rarity.

I like Kash or Rarity so far for scum.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
You always like me for scum :shrug:

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I wonder why some of the most loud players are being considered scum when it usually ends up being the least vocal ones in the end.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Kashuno posted:

You always like me for scum :shrug:

kashuno plz explain why you think lumpen seems nervous

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Captain Foo posted:

kashuno plz explain why you think lumpen seems nervous

I rescind this argument on a reread

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Although that probably makes me look scummy as hell.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

Although that probably makes me look scummy as hell.
I think it makes you seem less Scummy, but I still want you to consider and give your opinion on Rarity's posts now that you've reread with a different perspective.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Kashuno posted:

I rescind this argument on a reread

what made you change your mind?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Kashuno posted:

Although that probably makes me look scummy as hell.

imo it's stating your opinions without any evidence to back them up that looks scummy, not necessarily changing your mind about things.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Captain Foo posted:

what made you change your mind?

I had gotten a vibe from lumpens overall posting, but going back to read it I couldn't find anything to substantiate it

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Kashuno posted:

Although that probably makes me look scummy as hell.

I think it'd be scummier to not change your opinion based on evidence or to just not engage it at all. I mean it was still kind of a weird post/read but I can kind of get how "posts a lot of words" can seem to = nervousness at a glance

I mean there's definitely a scummy way to change your opinion but this feels clean to me, it's all just gut though

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Disagree.

What do you think of my comment that you're going for the low hanging fruit? Do you agree? Disagree?

Disagree.

Your turn. Reread Lumpen's posts, do you think he was trying to set himself up as town leader? If so, why and if not, why not?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Lumpen posted:

Yes, to a degree. But still, the most active players in any game tend to flip Town, that is just true, unless someone shitposts their way to the top of the postcount.

This is total bullshit. There are a bunch of players on SA who play exactly that way as scum. merk, Byers, diqnol, in this game there's you, me, FV and Ernie who are all capable of that and have done so in the past. I still think you're trying to drive your own narrative here.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Lumpen posted:

Hopefully Rarity posts more and doesn't just lurk out the rest of the day to escape the heat.

FV, do you really think that knowing me as a poster Lumpen would seriously believe or question that I would lurk in a game?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Ernie. posted:

##vote hiipfire

this post is grandstanding. it doesn't actually achieve anything. why is it worded as if it's trying to convince lumpen that he himself is scum?

moreover it comes off to me as hiipfire posting what he thinks a townie would be thinking rather than what a townie would actually think which is

This is a good post that makes a good point. Furthermore, it's making me wonder if Hiipfire and Opop are hiding behind an essential policy lynch to prevent having to make content.

Hiip, Opop, tell me another player you think is scum.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Captain Foo posted:

I don't love this post. While I also don't like rarity's pointless "nefarious purposes" thing, the bigger issue here to me is lumpen's response. Specifically, that he finds the callout of trying to control the game incredulous, and then specifically tying the number of posts in. Seriously, lumpen's obviously been taking a strongly aggressive leadership role upon himself. Doesn't need to advocate any lynches at this point in the game and to his own point, the game is young. wasn't a lot to generate real lynch cases from yet. in fact, strongly advocating for lynch on anyone that early is suspicious on its own. it is quite possible to take control of the game while not advocating any lynches early - that's what lumpen is actually doing yet he seems to be saying that taking control of the game requires advocating lynches. it doesn't, he's just driving the discussion.

secondly, the last part of the post is really weird. lumpen is trying to do a very complex analysis of rarity's post and the reasons for it, while also setting up a dichotomy that doesn't at all have to be true. this really rubs me the wrong way. furthermore "you're a good enough player to X" is a really dangerous argument to make at best and hilariously WIFOM at worst. it assumes a ton about how an experienced mafia player would play, that there is a General Correct Strategy or Tactic, and that there wouldn't be some other reason to not follow a generally expected strategy. It's poo poo, through and through.

This is a solid and well thought post, I'm liking Foo for town.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Kashuno posted:

You always like me for scum :shrug:

This post gives me ~*vibes*~, I feel like Kash is trying to make a show of being casual.

HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES

Rarity posted:

This is a good post that makes a good point. Furthermore, it's making me wonder if Hiipfire and Opop are hiding behind an essential policy lynch to prevent having to make content.

??????

I pointed out that he was being a hypocrit which makes me only feel more confident that he's scum

Rarity posted:

Do you think he was trying to set himself up as town leader?

also somehow I never pointed this out but I agree with this

Nobody else has pinged me yet so for now lumpen is my only scum read

it's day 1 and we're only 6 pages in why are you expecting multiple scum reads from me what

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Rarity posted:

Disagree.

Your turn. Reread Lumpen's posts, do you think he was trying to set himself up as town leader? If so, why and if not, why not?

Ok, sorry for my abrupt reply, but I didn't think talking about the content game any further was helpful. I do still want to talk further about your vote on Lumpen. He was pretty much the only vocal player in the thread, he has an abrasive play style and he already had a couple of joke votes sitting on him. Please elaborate on how he wasn't a low hanging fruit vote.

I think Lumpen probably was trying to set himself up as a town leader, and I think the why is because Lumpen likes to be in control and I see that as an aspect of his personality that is not alignment dependent. Can you explain why you think only a scum player would try to put themselves in that position? Do you really think Lumpen couldn't behave this way as town?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Rarity posted:

This is total bullshit. There are a bunch of players on SA who play exactly that way as scum. merk, Byers, diqnol, in this game there's you, me, FV and Ernie who are all capable of that and have done so in the past. I still think you're trying to drive your own narrative here.

I totally disagree with you here. The winning strategy on SA recently would be to just lynch from the bottom of the post count up. Town would win consistently. You even overestimate me, go back and look at my post count in Port Lourde. I am absolutely not a high volume poster there -- I got called out by the mod for lurking.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
Ugh, sorry I should have multi-quoted for my replies.

Rarity posted:

FV, do you really think that knowing me as a poster Lumpen would seriously believe or question that I would lurk in a game?

No, but maybe he was just prodding you? Do you think Lumpen is a player that wouldn't do that?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
For the new players, we have a tradition here on these forums that we dont lynch new players on Day 1 of their first game, so dont be afraid to post!

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fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.
TMM, having just played a game with you as scum, you talked about how you are a high volume poster as town. Should I be reading anything into your low post count so far?

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