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  • Locked thread
HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES
To be fair he was a high volume scum poster that game

also its day 1

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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

fiery_valkyrie posted:

TMM, having just played a game with you as scum, you talked about how you are a high volume poster as town. Should I be reading anything into your low post count so far?

Not particularly. I just finished a game where I posted a ton as the town rolecop and it was pretty draining. So I am just trying to be more relaxed and will probably take it easy on posting in this game. Now don't take that to mean I won't be paying attention or willing to put my thoughts forward, it just means that I won't be shoving those opinions down peoples throats with a massive amount of posting.

And remember, I was the highest posting scum in that game even though I died first. So my post count should definitely not be seen as indicative of my alignment. How much or little I post depends on my mood not my alignment.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

TMMadman posted:

So I am just trying to be more relaxed and will probably take it easy on posting in this game. Now don't take that to mean I won't be paying attention or willing to put my thoughts forward, it just means that I won't be shoving those opinions down peoples throats with a massive amount of posting.

:yayclod:

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
Doing a quick read on Hiip, I could see him as scum.

He quotes Lumpens scum tell list with a vote and then points out that sucking up is on the list. His next several posts can only be described as suck up posts.

I also don't like that he points out there are only 6 pages on D1, but the only person pings him is Lumpen so far. There is plenty of content to work with in those 6 pages, but Hiip doesn't want to do the work. Possibly because he already knows who is town?

Would vote Hiip. Keeping vote on Kashuno. At the moment, I'd vote Rarity to avoid a no lynch, but for now she's only third on my list.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Chamale posted:

We're going to the green place!

Chamale posted:

No unnecessary killing!

Chamale posted:

Look how slick he's fooled you!
##vote Lumpen

Several real life games, no online

Say something else. Anything. Which 3 players are you most suspicious of right now and why? Write at least 75 words about this game.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I don't know who to trust :ohdear:

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Played Werewolf a bunch of times IRL, never online.
(^full post history^)
Hi. You signed up to play a game of Mafia. Don't be shy, we want to hear your thoughts. All thoughts are welcome. You are safe from being voted out D1 no matter what you say.
How does what you've seen in the last 7 pages compare with your bunch of IRL Werewolf D1's? What criteria do you usually use in deciding who to vote for? Who do you think is Scum?
Please take a few minutes to type at least 75 words about this game.

HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES

TMMadman posted:

He quotes Lumpens scum tell list with a vote and then points out that sucking up is on the list. His next several posts can only be described as suck up posts.
this was a joke vote that stayed since i felt like he's been playing scummy since

TMMadman posted:

I also don't like that he points out there are only 6 pages on D1, but the only person pings him is Lumpen so far. There is plenty of content to work with in those 6 pages, but Hiip doesn't want to do the work. Possibly because he already knows who is town?
or maybe most of the content in these 6 pages have been jokes, lumpen playing town leader, random empty posts, posts pinging newbies and some occasional content posts from people who I see as town right now.

Also I have done the work and right now Lumpen is the only person I like for scum right now and if you think that's me being lazy than I don't know what to tell you man.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Colonel Corazon posted:

I've played plenty in real life. Never played a match with so many additional roles. I've usually had good luck voting for whoever talks too much right out of the gate so I've thinking of voting lumpen but I'll hang in here a bit longer before I decide anything.

Colonel Corazon posted:

I should also say that I'm out of town taking care of family right now so once I get home I'll be able to chime in more.
(^full history^)
When can we expect more from you? I'm looking forward to your thoughts. I think you have an interesting point about IRL Werewolf, it is effective as a wolf to dominate and lead the village around and be a distracting loudmouth to waste the limited discussion time. In the forum format, though, where every post and every vote is permanently recorded to be reflected on and analyzed in a leisurely way, the dynamic is a lot different, I find. I hadn't really thought of that before.

I hope you'll take some time to refer to posts and comment on interactions in this game rather than voting by a general rule-of-thumb.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

TMMadman posted:

I also don't like that he points out there are only 6 pages on D1, but the only person pings him is Lumpen so far. There is plenty of content to work with in those 6 pages, but Hiip doesn't want to do the work. Possibly because he already knows who is town?

There are 6 pages of Lumpen-chat and jokephase stuff, and a combined page of me being dumb and people questioning it.

It's d1. There isn't going to be a lot of solid content to go on.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I also agree with Lumpen, don't be worried about your opinions being weak/weird or anything like that new people. I post lovely opinions all the time and do just fine. :justpost:

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
What's with the assumption that playing Town Leader is somehow a bad thing, anyway? Ok, I am Mayor of Town. I will lead Town to victory. I will do this by encouraging every player to be engaged and involved in discussion, and relentlessly focus on effectively hunting Scum. If it turns out that I lead mislynches of Townies, or distract and defend from someone who flips Scum, then it would make sense to be suspicious of me. If all my posting and effort lynches Scum, hooray for me. If not, I embarrass myself and get lynched.

Trying to imply that posting actively and making an effort is somehow inherently Scummy is bullshit. "He actually cares about the game, that's fishy. He's trying, lynch him!" is an attitude that makes boring lovely lurky games. Is the role-model Townie around here supposed to be someone who is detached and barely interested, just shows up in the last couple hours before deadline to apathy lynch whoever happens to be the lynch leader?

Even if you really thought I was Scum, interact with me and be more sure, get me to talk about other people so if I flip Scum you have a sense of who might be my Scumbuddies. Or reassure yourself that I'm not likely Scum after all.

Interrogate people who are contributing nothing, pressure them to get some info while the day is open. There's multiple Scum. It's not LYLO.

##unvote Still suspicious of Rarity but she is posting and her last few posts were unexpectedly less bad.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
After that last post I'm feeling reasonably confident Lumpen is town and I'm sure others can see why.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

After that last post I'm feeling reasonably confident Lumpen is town and I'm sure others can see why.
No, why?

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Lumpen posted:

No, why?

Because he's scum who already knows your alignment.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

TMMadman posted:

Because he's scum who already knows your alignment.
I disagree. His backoff seemed sincere and reasonable to me, at a time where if he were Scum it would've been easy and effective to just keep pushing.

Kashuno posted:

This is a good point ##unvote
From my perspective he's a lot less Scummy for that reversal. From someone else's perspective I can't see how it would make him look more Scummy unless you thought we were Scumbuddies and he had been distancing with his vote and took an opportunity to hop off.

Why are Hiip and Rarity lower priorities for you, TMM? Any other suspicions to mention?

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but something in it stood out to me as a particular word choice.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but something in it stood out to me as a particular word choice.
Uh, there was no breadcrumb, softclaim, or secret layer of communication in that post. It was entirely meant plainly and sincerely and meant to be taken at face value. But I'm curious about what you thought you saw.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Lumpen posted:

What's with the assumption that playing Town Leader is somehow a bad thing, anyway? Ok, I am Mayor of Town. I will lead Town to victory.

Reading that I honestly thought it was a really good way to breadcrumb and was seriously impressed. Guess not.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

Reading that I honestly thought it was a really good way to breadcrumb and was seriously impressed. Guess not.
No, I already claimed Unconfirmed Masons with Ernie in my first post.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Lumpen posted:

No, I already claimed Unconfirmed Masons with Ernie in my first post.

I wasn't fully sure if that was a serious claim or not. I'll take it at face value now, though.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Lumpen posted:

Say something else. Anything. Which 3 players are you most suspicious of right now and why? Write at least 75 words about this game.

Aaaaaaah!

I'm most suspicious of you, motherfucker. You know you're not trustworthy, and you're trying to lead the new people around by the nose and distract them from yourself. It's not going to work. Scum protects scum, and I wasn't convinced by Kashuno's cute little vote and unvote. See how he's defending you now! Then there's Ernie, who vouched for you, in a way that we conveniently can't verify. Lumpen, Kashuno, and Ernie. are scum.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
It's much more likely that I'm just having a hard time focusing because I hate d1 and Lumpen is writing a lot of words so I skimmed, got something, and when called out on it turns out I never actually had anything.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Chamale posted:

Aaaaaaah!

I'm most suspicious of you, motherfucker. You know you're not trustworthy, and you're trying to lead the new people around by the nose and distract them from yourself. It's not going to work. Scum protects scum, and I wasn't convinced by Kashuno's cute little vote and unvote. See how he's defending you now! Then there's Ernie, who vouched for you, in a way that we conveniently can't verify. Lumpen, Kashuno, and Ernie. are scum.
That's adorable. :shobon:

Keep the postin' cranked up to 11 as you continue bustin' this case wide open!!!!!!!!! :allears:

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Lumpen posted:

I disagree. His backoff seemed sincere and reasonable to me, at a time where if he were Scum it would've been easy and effective to just keep pushing.

From my perspective he's a lot less Scummy for that reversal. From someone else's perspective I can't see how it would make him look more Scummy unless you thought we were Scumbuddies and he had been distancing with his vote and took an opportunity to hop off.

Why are Hiip and Rarity lower priorities for you, TMM? Any other suspicions to mention?

We'll just have to disagree because to me his back off felt weird and self-conscious.

And I fail to understand how you think the only options are you're both town or you're both scum because that is what you're second paragraph is implying. Honestly, the whole second paragraph makes me want to rethink my position on you.

Kash could be town backing off a charismatic scum pressuring him in a reasonable fashion or he could be scum backing of an active and direct townie I'm at a convenient time.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
If there's one thing that I don't do in mafia, it's feel self-conscious about my votes. I can acknowledge when they suck or are low content, but that doesn't mean I feel bad about it.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Lumpen posted:

That's adorable. :shobon:

THEN WHO KILLED THE WORLD?

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

TMMadman posted:

We'll just have to disagree because to me his back off felt weird and self-conscious.

And I fail to understand how you think the only options are you're both town or you're both scum because that is what you're second paragraph is implying. Honestly, the whole second paragraph makes me want to rethink my position on you.

Kash could be town backing off a charismatic scum pressuring him in a reasonable fashion or he could be scum backing of an active and direct townie I'm at a convenient time.
Possible, yes. Likely, I don't think so. But that's my opinion from my perspective. Your thoughts on the record are a good contribution to judge you by as things become more clear. I think you seem sincere and plausibly reasonable, even though we disagree.

HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES

Lumpen posted:

What's with the assumption that playing Town Leader is somehow a bad thing, anyway? Ok, I am Mayor of Town. I will lead Town to victory. I will do this by encouraging every player to be engaged and involved in discussion, and relentlessly focus on effectively hunting Scum.
the issue is that it seems more like you're being town leader so that you can gain trust from the new players through just being the most active poster than that you're actually trying to lead to town to victory

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Kashuno posted:

Reading that I honestly thought it was a really good way to breadcrumb and was seriously impressed. Guess not.

Also just to nitpick but how is this in anyway a good breadcrumb? It's literally saying the name of his role and that's not a breadcrumb.

You better WATCH out Kashuno because you're standing on the TRACKS and if the train hits you even a DOCTOR wouldn't able to save you.

P.S. - You should just COP to being scum now.

HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES

TMMadman posted:

Also just to nitpick but how is this in anyway a good breadcrumb? It's literally saying the name of his role and that's not a breadcrumb.
this

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
It's something that's easy to glance over but if he were to reference it later it'd be clear?

Like I'm not interested in people breadcrumbing as a cop with some obscure reference to some noire cop drama where the vice cop #2 said something, something clear and easy to get but also easy to skip over is nice.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Kashuno is not making me feel particularly good about himself right now. Admittedly, I gave him a pass last night for that comment about Lumpen being nervous-seeming because I could kind of get that reading if I squinted and tilted my head funny, but when you combine it with his more recent posts about Lumpen reading as townie to him because of word choice -- those posts specifically seem insincere to me.

I can't make the idea of Kashuno and Lumpen being scum together make any sense at all with their respective post histories though, so there's gotta be something up here. Gonna give Lumpen another reread.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I don't ever post anything insincere, Someone Awful.

My role is the most town aligned role possible in Mafia so if we could move on to other things that'd be cool and neat.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


##vote Kashuno

The Lumpen thing pinged me but that post seals it

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Lumpen posted:

What's with the assumption that playing Town Leader is somehow a bad thing, anyway? Ok, I am Mayor of Town. I will lead Town to victory. I will do this by encouraging every player to be engaged and involved in discussion, and relentlessly focus on effectively hunting Scum. If it turns out that I lead mislynches of Townies, or distract and defend from someone who flips Scum, then it would make sense to be suspicious of me. If all my posting and effort lynches Scum, hooray for me. If not, I embarrass myself and get lynched.

Trying to imply that posting actively and making an effort is somehow inherently Scummy is bullshit. "He actually cares about the game, that's fishy. He's trying, lynch him!" is an attitude that makes boring lovely lurky games. Is the role-model Townie around here supposed to be someone who is detached and barely interested, just shows up in the last couple hours before deadline to apathy lynch whoever happens to be the lynch leader?

For me at least it's not that you're posting and being active and all that, it's the specific way that you are going about it, which feels like an attempt to mislead. I've elaborated on this before so I'm not going to repeat myself.

It is early days still though, you're right. If you're not Scum (which I still think you are), it's possible that the scum team are hanging back and letting you paint a target on yourself, rather than feeling the need to step in. There are a lot of people we haven't heard too much from (Opop, who's been busy; Acebuckeye; Colonel Corazon; and LowellDND specifically are on my mind) and I hope they step in and say something soon now that the weekend's over.

preview edit: well I guess you can cross Opop off that list then!

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Ok, sorry for my abrupt reply, but I didn't think talking about the content game any further was helpful. I do still want to talk further about your vote on Lumpen. He was pretty much the only vocal player in the thread, he has an abrasive play style and he already had a couple of joke votes sitting on him. Please elaborate on how he wasn't a low hanging fruit vote.

Ok, you have a point. I was being needlessly abrasive, he was low hanging fruit. However, I vote for the person I think is scum, it doesn't matter how their fruit hangs.

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I think Lumpen probably was trying to set himself up as a town leader, and I think the why is because Lumpen likes to be in control and I see that as an aspect of his personality that is not alignment dependent. Can you explain why you think only a scum player would try to put themselves in that position? Do you really think Lumpen couldn't behave this way as town?

As I've already explained, in a newbie heavy game as you can lead the newbies around in any direction you wish. What reason do you think a town Lumpen would have for trying to get that level of influence?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I totally disagree with you here. The winning strategy on SA recently would be to just lynch from the bottom of the post count up. Town would win consistently. You even overestimate me, go back and look at my post count in Port Lourde. I am absolutely not a high volume poster there -- I got called out by the mod for lurking.

Port Lourde is anecdotal evidence. We all play against our meta sometimes. The point is it's something you can do, it's something many people can do and just because it's not what other people do doesn't mean it should be completely disregarded as a scum playstyle.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Ugh, sorry I should have multi-quoted for my replies.


No, but maybe he was just prodding you? Do you think Lumpen is a player that wouldn't do that?

I think he's once again trying to control the narrative by portraying his lynch target in a certain light so that newbies get an impression based on that and not from actual posts.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Can I invoke Madman's Law (TM) and claim the second vote on me is definitely scum?

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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Chamale posted:

Aaaaaaah!

I'm most suspicious of you, motherfucker. You know you're not trustworthy, and you're trying to lead the new people around by the nose and distract them from yourself. It's not going to work. Scum protects scum, and I wasn't convinced by Kashuno's cute little vote and unvote. See how he's defending you now! Then there's Ernie, who vouched for you, in a way that we conveniently can't verify. Lumpen, Kashuno, and Ernie. are scum.

Hi, it's great to have you playing :)

That said, I'm never a fan of people basing reads on unknown flips. Do you have any thoughts that aren't relating to the Lumpen discussion?

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