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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Alaois posted:

it's a video game with guns, people are gonna default to the expected way of dealing with problems in that situation

This is from a series where you can end a man by throwing a frog at him. They should know better.

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My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

The End did have a very similar feature. You could pick up his breathing with the directional microphone. In fact, that's my go-to way of finding him.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Oxxidation posted:

About that second spoiler, there's a whole bunch of ways to stop the Man on Fire. Dousing him with the water towers is the most obvious, but you can also call in a shotgun (Kaz specifically gets on the radio and mentions this) to stagger him into the central reservoir or off the cliff. If you don't want to shoot him, ramming him with the jeeps will send him flying. Even the water fountains in the facility can gently caress him up. And on replays, calling in a Weather Control (Rain) will end him instantly.

Phantom Pain's bosses leave a lot to be desired, but between stuff like this and everyone talking about how difficult the Skulls are I'm starting to think that not many people are even trying alternate solutions beyond "shoot with thing, then shoot with bigger thing."

I think the structure of the codecs makes things a little harder to try those. In 1-4, codec calls were always a separate thing you could pause the game and go into. Then you can talk to Colonel or Otacon or whatever about the boss, they'll come up with something, and you can utilize that. Even if you don't, the fights are usually pretty slow-paced, and even switching weapons pauses the game, so you've got plenty of time to stop, look at your options, and think.

Peace Walker and V give you limited loadouts, you can't pause to look at them, and codecs are 'press a button to call Mother Base for a few short sentences'. In Peace Walker that was generally okay since the bosses were fairly straightforward firefights, but in V it's a little rougher. You've got relatively few weapons on hand to look through, ordering in more requires you to do a lot of looking through menus (that don't pause the game) and then waiting for delivery, and the codecs are too short and simple to really glean much from.

All that means that it both relies more on you looking for the solution yourself, and makes it a lot harder to do the required experimentation.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Can you play as characters other than Mario? Hell, a good selling-point would be a character-creator in the Mario-style.

You can get character skins of other Nintendo characters but can only use them with the Mystery Mushroom item in the Super Mario Bros tileset, but its nothing but a pallet swap of Mario, you can't even play as Luigi normally, he's just a character skin.

Poulpe
Nov 11, 2006
Canadian Santa Extraordinaire

Judge Tesla posted:

Super Mario Maker is an incredibly fun toolkit where you can build your own Mario levels using a number of items from the Mario Series, but the thing dragging it down is the Playerbase itself.

The overwhelming majority of user made stages are Kaizo Mario inspired nightmare stages where only the creator and the grognards who like this stupid poo poo can complete them, I at least try to make my own stages completable by anyone, children included, who are funnily enough, the target market for Mario games. :v:

Ugh, seconding this. It's nice that you can trade a life to skip a level but 90% of the expert courses are "Nintendo Hard" schlock or courses with hidden passages/powerups so the original creator can actually complete it. I've played more than one "Pick a pipe- 2/3 of them are instant death! :D" levels.

It would be really great if Nintendo added a weekly "curated 100-Mario course" or something, with expert level difficulty on intelligently designed levels.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Poulpe posted:

Ugh, seconding this. It's nice that you can trade a life to skip a level but 90% of the expert courses are "Nintendo Hard" schlock or courses with hidden passages/powerups so the original creator can actually complete it. I've played more than one "Pick a pipe- 2/3 of them are instant death! :D" levels.

It would be really great if Nintendo added a weekly "curated 100-Mario course" or something, with expert level difficulty on intelligently designed levels.

Based on the way they rolled out splatoon and the unlocks in mario maker, I wouldn't be surprised to find out Nintendo already designed such a mode.... but simply figured that it would be "too much" for our wee brains to handle at release. So we could get it in an update in a couple weeks or something.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
It's also fairly barebones as far as map editors go, the only Mario series boss you can use is Bowser and Bowser Jr, no Koopalings, Boom Boom, Reznor or anything, there's also no options to add background decorations so a lot of maps just have a crapload of dead space and empty backgrounds.

I do realize that Nintendo want this to be as user friendly as possible but, now that the maker has been out for a few days, I am starting to chafe at the lack of features like the above mentioned ones.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Judge Tesla posted:

It's also fairly barebones as far as map editors go, the only Mario series boss you can use is Bowser and Bowser Jr, no Koopalings, Boom Boom, Reznor or anything, there's also no options to add background decorations so a lot of maps just have a crapload of dead space and empty backgrounds.

I do realize that Nintendo want this to be as user friendly as possible but, now that the maker has been out for a few days, I am starting to chafe at the lack of features like the above mentioned ones.

Yeah the WYSIWYG editor is great, everything "just works".

But all the things that we can't do just bother the poo poo out of me. Can't have warp pipes that go to the same level. Can only have one sub-level. Backgrounds are locked and tied to theme. Lots of backgrounds just don't exist.

Like, it would take all of one button and a single texture to add the forest background as an option for SMW.

Not to mention things like the mystery shroom only working in Mario 1. I don't care if things don't look 100% right, they already don't! That's how the mystery shroom works. Its not like you'd have to create Mario 3 and SMW graphics for each of the mystery shroom characters!

Take sonic, the sonic sprite they use in the mystery shroom would be impossible to render on an NES. They use the Genesis sprite, which would make more sense in SMW on the SNES (talking about palette and resolution) and yet you have to use him only in Mario 1. Can't use sonic in Mario 3 or SMW levels. Why? It makes no drat sense.

Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Oxxidation posted:

About that second spoiler, there's a whole bunch of ways to stop the Man on Fire. Dousing him with the water towers is the most obvious, but you can also call in a shotgun (Kaz specifically gets on the radio and mentions this) to stagger him into the central reservoir or off the cliff. If you don't want to shoot him, ramming him with the jeeps will send him flying. Even the water fountains in the facility can gently caress him up. And on replays, calling in a Weather Control (Rain) will end him instantly.

Phantom Pain's bosses leave a lot to be desired, but between stuff like this and everyone talking about how difficult the Skulls are I'm starting to think that not many people are even trying alternate solutions beyond "shoot with thing, then shoot with bigger thing."

You can also shoot the psychic boy and fulton the man on fire which ends the fight instantly.

As for the skulls, bait out their melee, counter it, unload in their face with an AR.

Deport The Irish
Nov 25, 2013
In the hour long opening "tutorial" (a cutscene where you have to hold forward the whole time so you can't just go make a sandwich) for MGS V, there's a bit where some panicked guy grabs your ankle and begs you to save him. The ELITE EVIL ASSASSIN responds by shooting him in the butt and dragging him away, screaming, then shooting him in the butt three more times to kill him (no man can survive with four pieces of metal in his behind). The EILITE EVIL ASSASSIN then walks away without bothering to look around for who or what the guy was holding onto and begging to save his life. This is a tense dramatic moment.

MGS V is a great game mechanically but good god it should have never tried to have a story because it's garbage.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Oxxidation posted:

This is from a series where you can end a man by throwing a frog at him. They should know better.

Being fair this is a series in which shooting does solve most problems fast enough for most players to never feel the need to vary up their strategy, plus you have essentially an entirely new generation getting their feet wet with MGSV and aren't aware of how insanely diverse the problem-solving in MGS boss fights can be.

Zaphod42 posted:

Yeah the WYSIWYG editor is great, everything "just works".

But all the things that we can't do just bother the poo poo out of me. Can't have warp pipes that go to the same level. Can only have one sub-level. Backgrounds are locked and tied to theme. Lots of backgrounds just don't exist.

Like, it would take all of one button and a single texture to add the forest background as an option for SMW.

Not to mention things like the mystery shroom only working in Mario 1. I don't care if things don't look 100% right, they already don't! That's how the mystery shroom works. Its not like you'd have to create Mario 3 and SMW graphics for each of the mystery shroom characters!

Take sonic, the sonic sprite they use in the mystery shroom would be impossible to render on an NES. They use the Genesis sprite, which would make more sense in SMW on the SNES (talking about palette and resolution) and yet you have to use him only in Mario 1. Can't use sonic in Mario 3 or SMW levels. Why? It makes no drat sense.

Sounds pretty standard for modern Nintendo to me. The stuff that does work is polished to a mirror shine but all that does after a while is cast a spotlight on the depth they either sacrificed or ignored to get said polish.

Contrecoup
Mar 30, 2015
MGSV on the OC only shows keyboard and mouse controls even if you use a controller which makes even figuring out how the game works a loving chore. Thank god for steam refunds on shovelware.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Contrecoup posted:

MGSV on the OC only shows keyboard and mouse controls even if you use a controller which makes even figuring out how the game works a loving chore. Thank god for steam refunds on shovelware.

Except for the prompts that arbitrarily only show gamepad controls, and the fact that the 'Controls' section in the pause menu only ever shows an Xbox controller's layout.

The control scheme stuff in MGSV is weirdly divided.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010

Deport The Irish posted:

In the hour long opening "tutorial" (a cutscene where you have to hold forward the whole time so you can't just go make a sandwich) for MGS V, there's a bit where some panicked guy grabs your ankle and begs you to save him. The ELITE EVIL ASSASSIN responds by shooting him in the butt and dragging him away, screaming, then shooting him in the butt three more times to kill him (no man can survive with four pieces of metal in his behind). The EILITE EVIL ASSASSIN then walks away without bothering to look around for who or what the guy was holding onto and begging to save his life. This is a tense dramatic moment.

MGS V is a great game mechanically but good god it should have never tried to have a story because it's garbage.

Another annoyance in the same vein is that there are several instances where you manage to sneak up on a given bad guy in a cutscene, and instead of just putting a bullet/tranquiliser in their face the Boss will just stand there and scowl in their direction until they just walk away and/or trigger a boss fight.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
Controls in the menu only shows gameoad controls, but if you go to key assignments you can see and set the binds for kb/m. And then the game will randomly a mix of keyboard and gamepad controls in game. Like moving an analog stick and pressing the e key to jump from roof to roof.


I feel sorry for any person coming into mgsv without having thrown a tree frog to defeat a boss. Or two.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

mind the walrus posted:

Being fair this is a series in which shooting does solve most problems fast enough for most players to never feel the need to vary up their strategy, plus you have essentially an entirely new generation getting their feet wet with MGSV and aren't aware of how insanely diverse the problem-solving in MGS boss fights can be.

Guns solved the Man on Fire boss fight so quickly for me that I didn't even realize that that was the Man on Fire boss fight. Call in a helicopter, shoot a water tank, done. I thought there would be a much more involved "real fight" later on.

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Is this some kind of extended joke? I've been using a gamepad on the PC version of MGSV and I've never ever seen a keyboard/mouse prompt; I dunno about the other way around, though, because who wouldn't use a loving controller for a game like this

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


The Moon Monster posted:

Guns solved the Man on Fire boss fight so quickly for me that I didn't even realize that that was the Man on Fire boss fight. Call in a helicopter, shoot a water tank, done. I thought there would be a much more involved "real fight" later on.

One thing I really didn't like about the Man on Fire boss fight is that I had DD with me and since he just kind of runs around he got "killed" and needed to be Fultoned out through no fault of mine.

Amorphous Blob
Jun 26, 2009

by Lowtax

(and can't post for 2 years!)

Jia posted:

Is this some kind of extended joke? I've been using a gamepad on the PC version of MGSV and I've never ever seen a keyboard/mouse prompt; I dunno about the other way around, though, because who wouldn't use a loving controller for a game like this

M n k are making me own Zillah at it and aiming with analog is a drag.

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

yeah I've been playing MGSV for 70-80 hours on PC and I haven't seen a single keyboard prompt when playing with a controller

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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You've played 80 hours on a game thats been out for 2 weeks?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
lol if you don't sink 80 hours into a new MGS game per day

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
I've been using mouse and keyboard with very nearly no issues outside of the control popups I mentioned earlier.

The only issue I've found is that movement sensitivity when zoomed in with a scope is the same as unscoped, when it really feels like it should be lower. Even then, the only reason I feel like that's an M+KB-only issue is because I saw it mentioned as such somewhere.

Cleretic has a new favorite as of 14:40 on Sep 15, 2015

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

oldpainless posted:

You've played 80 hours on a game thats been out for 2 weeks?

Couple hours a night on weeknights, marathon sessions on weekends because I'm an enormous loser with nothing better to do? :confused:

Bunni-kat
May 25, 2010

Service Desk B-b-bunny...
How can-ca-caaaaan I
help-p-p-p you?

Kaubocks posted:

Couple hours a night on weeknights, marathon sessions on weekends because I'm an enormous loser with nothing better to do? :confused:

4 hours on weekdays, 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. Don't admit this poo poo dude. Have a little loving self-respect.

Heavy Lobster
Oct 24, 2010

:gowron::m10:
hosed up how posters in a video game thread enjoy playing new and good video games.

Justin Godscock
Oct 12, 2004

Listen here, funnyman!

oldpainless posted:

You've played 80 hours on a game thats been out for 2 weeks?

Look at the forum you are posting on.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009

Jia posted:

Is this some kind of extended joke? I've been using a gamepad on the PC version of MGSV and I've never ever seen a keyboard/mouse prompt; I dunno about the other way around, though, because who wouldn't use a loving controller for a game like this
Because i am playing on a computer and pretty much every gamepad design sucks rear end, especially microsoft ones, so why wouldnt i use one. The default controls are also actually laid Pretty Good for once too.

Cleretic posted:

I've been using mouse and keyboard with very nearly no issues outside of the control popups I mentioned earlier.

The only issue I've found is that movement sensitivity when zoomed in with a scope is the same as unscoped, when it really feels like it should be lower. Even then, the only reason I feel like that's an M+KB-only issue is because I saw it mentioned as such somewhere.

Buy a mouse with adjustable DPI. Dont rely on games to wlter the sensitivity for you.

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

Avenging_Mikon posted:

4 hours on weekdays, 10 hours Saturday and Sunday. Don't admit this poo poo dude. Have a little loving self-respect.

game's dope

I haven't even beaten it yet

EDIT: I'm gonna play more of it when I get home from work. These side ops aren't going to complete themselves.

Kaubocks has a new favorite as of 21:06 on Sep 15, 2015

spudsbuckley
Aug 29, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

(and can't post for 5 years!)

Kaubocks posted:

These side ops aren't going to complete themselves.

They are that samey that i'm pretty sure you could write a script to complete them automatically.

"Extract The Highly Skilled Soldier 01 was good but Extract The Highly Skilled Soldier 17 is a much better side mission"

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

by VideoGames

Away all Goats posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12VETiPbyV0
And despite that video's title, that's not even the hardest platforming section

Heh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnqkV8r6FU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuF4GqD-9dE

gently caress the orbs.

Deport The Irish
Nov 25, 2013

Jia posted:

Is this some kind of extended joke? I've been using a gamepad on the PC version of MGSV and I've never ever seen a keyboard/mouse prompt; I dunno about the other way around, though, because who wouldn't use a loving controller for a game like this

My quitting point was when I had a keyboard prompt to do something and I tried every single button on my controller and none of them did the thing. It's a lovely port.

An Actual Princess
Dec 23, 2006

Deport The Irish posted:

My quitting point was when I had a keyboard prompt to do something and I tried every single button on my controller and none of them did the thing. It's a lovely port.

I would super love to know when this was, because --as stated -- I've been playing the game for almost 80 hours on a controller and never once seen a keyboard prompt. Also lmao at a lovely port this thing runs like a goddamn dream; I haven't seen many ports much better than this one.

Less Fat Luke
May 23, 2003

Exciting Lemon

Jia posted:

I would super love to know when this was, because --as stated -- I've been playing the game for almost 80 hours on a controller and never once seen a keyboard prompt. Also lmao at a lovely port this thing runs like a goddamn dream; I haven't seen many ports much better than this one.

I play with a controller and get that bug anytime that I accidentally move the mouse or keyboard; when I do that (or rather my dumb cat) all prompts switch to keyboard ones and the controller will only change the view until restarting the whole game.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

A fancy little mouse🐁!

It's 2015 and you dorks need to just accept using a controller for PC gaming.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009
the game wasnt perfect for me ergo its a lovely port

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Evilreaver posted:

The more I play Mad Max, the saltier I get. [...]

Now that I've finished the game, a final assessment:

Don't 100% the game for fucks sake.
Bumrush the Scrotus camps, clear them all, that's the real moneymaker. (Again, don't 100% them)
Go into the final fight (there's a "warning: final fight" popup) with 3 Thunderpoons or fewer

:perfect:

Holy poo poo the ending chase battle is fantastic. If you've played MM and gave up because it's boring (??), do the core story missions. Don't worry about car upgrades, you probably have enough.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Evilreaver posted:

Now that I've finished the game, a final assessment:

Don't 100% the game for fucks sake.

What games would anyone even suggest you should 100% anyway?

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

malae fidei cum XI_XXVI_MMIX

Evilreaver posted:

Now that I've finished the game, a final assessment:

Don't 100% the game for fucks sake.
Bumrush the Scrotus camps, clear them all, that's the real moneymaker. (Again, don't 100% them)
Go into the final fight (there's a "warning: final fight" popup) with 3 Thunderpoons or fewer

:perfect:

Holy poo poo the ending chase battle is fantastic. If you've played MM and gave up because it's boring (??), do the core story missions. Don't worry about car upgrades, you probably have enough.

The best thing is that I somehow read this assuming you're talking about MGSV, and thought you already developed a lingo.

Because I would totally call those russian bases Scrotus camps

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Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


kazil posted:

It's 2015 and you dorks need to just accept using a controller for PC gaming.

Why?

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