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Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


For real though what do you want me to do? I'm waking up now.

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Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Opopanax posted:

For real though what do you want me to do? I'm waking up now.

just give me an opinion

about anything you feel like talking about

preferably game related!

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Ernie. posted:

see, the minute i got my role pm and knew i was a mason, i knew who you were. i don't get why you couldn't arrive at the conclusion privately and then do the logical thing of determining my alignment independently. this whole act about pretending like asking pointless questions is valuable is an annoying meta gimmick. :shrug:
Well, why be cagey about it though? I thought you might be another wife, or Angharad. Nux is a good guy anyway, right? You're being defensive and acting all offended for no apparent reason. Flavor is usually meaningless, but reactions and interactions between players, and choices made, are always meaningful.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Lumpen posted:

Well, why be cagey about it though? I thought you might be another wife, or Angharad. Nux is a good guy anyway, right? You're being defensive and acting all offended for no apparent reason. Flavor is usually meaningless, but reactions and interactions between players, and choices made, are always meaningful.

"Nux is a good guy anyway right?" is exactly why I'm cagey. That's a valueless proposition and at worst it actively insults sirsamvines' game design.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Im seeing some vote drop off from Lumpen, and I just want to restate why I think that’s a bad idea. Lumpen has:

Introduced himself as unconfirmed mason, and tried to do the playful 'maybe I am and maybe I’m not.’ This is a sign of a guilty conscience. Furthermore, Lumpen tried to make alliance with Ernie, as scum are prone to do.

Not content with that, Lumpen made a comprehensive list of rules for newbies to follow (one of which he violated immediately, with his OMGUS vote of me). This shows both that he is trying to control the narrative, as well as further proof of a guilty conscience. He lists such things as ‘over defensiveness, overemotionally, flailing, and sucking up’, all of which have been seen in this thread.

This can be noted in a later post, when he argues that ‘townies need to talk, while scum stay quiet.’ This is obviously an indicator that he wants the town to think that, and works within that strategy to talk nonstop. As a scum, he thinks that this will show he is part of the town, but he doesn’t realize he has already revealed himself thereby.

Vote Lumpen.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Ernie. posted:

"Nux is a good guy anyway right?" is exactly why I'm cagey. That's a valueless proposition and at worst it actively insults sirsamvines' game design.
Flavor doesn't matter but being self-conscious and cagey and making lovely excuses does matter. :colbert:

If you were another of the wives, yeah, I would've "insulted SSV's" game design and assumed you were almost certainly Town.

But as is, you Scumclaimed in the MasonDoc, made a really terrible vote on f_v, and now you're jumping on HiipFire but have said nothing substantial about Rarity. So I am suspicious of you.

What's your take on Rarity? What's your read on me?

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Lumpen posted:

Flavor doesn't matter but being self-conscious and cagey and making lovely excuses does matter. :colbert:

If you were another of the wives, yeah, I would've "insulted SSV's" game design and assumed you were almost certainly Town.

But as is, you Scumclaimed in the MasonDoc, made a really terrible vote on f_v, and now you're jumping on HiipFire but have said nothing substantial about Rarity. So I am suspicious of you.

What's your take on Rarity? What's your read on me?

I refuse to engage with you on your terms. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Saying flavor doesn't matter then saying being a wife would make me town is backwards.

And pretending like me not talking about rarity is alignment indicative for either of us is fallacious thinking.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

You're not being helpful right now lumpen. If you think d1 is the best day to get content out of people please let me get people to talk about hiipfire and take a back seat.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


Ernie. posted:

just give me an opinion

about anything you feel like talking about

preferably game related!

Like, besides me calling Kashuno scum and voting Lumpen earlier, you mean?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Lumpen posted:

Flavor doesn't matter but being self-conscious and cagey and making lovely excuses does matter. :colbert:

If you were another of the wives, yeah, I would've "insulted SSV's" game design and assumed you were almost certainly Town.

But as is, you Scumclaimed in the MasonDoc, made a really terrible vote on f_v, and now you're jumping on HiipFire but have said nothing substantial about Rarity. So I am suspicious of you.

What's your take on Rarity? What's your read on me?

this post smells bad

flavor arguments are not good arguments unless there's been some indication that flavor is going to play a part in the actual game rather than be, y'know, flavor. There's been no evidence of that either way. A wife and nux in a masonry? sure, sounds reasonable except for the fact where either of them could be lying about anything so it's completely worthless to speculate on

I wouldn't assume two players being in an unconfirmed masonry means anything at all w/r/t alignment, especially on D1

why should we care what lumpen says ernie says in the masondoc; it's smokescreen at worst and evidence nobody else can use at best. let me revisit what ernie has to say about f_v and hiipfire

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Ernie. posted:

##vote fiery_valkyrie

her post was motivated by a need to interject/talk. townies are under no such need. :3:

game solved

this was an early vote though it's not actually horrible reasoning, and lumpen trying to push it as "really terrible" is a reach and a half

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

LowellDND posted:

Im seeing some vote drop off from Lumpen, and I just want to restate why I think that’s a bad idea. Lumpen has:

Introduced himself as unconfirmed mason, and tried to do the playful 'maybe I am and maybe I’m not.’ This is a sign of a guilty conscience. Furthermore, Lumpen tried to make alliance with Ernie, as scum are prone to do.

Not content with that, Lumpen made a comprehensive list of rules for newbies to follow (one of which he violated immediately, with his OMGUS vote of me). This shows both that he is trying to control the narrative, as well as further proof of a guilty conscience. He lists such things as ‘over defensiveness, overemotionally, flailing, and sucking up’, all of which have been seen in this thread.

This can be noted in a later post, when he argues that ‘townies need to talk, while scum stay quiet.’ This is obviously an indicator that he wants the town to think that, and works within that strategy to talk nonstop. As a scum, he thinks that this will show he is part of the town, but he doesn’t realize he has already revealed himself thereby.

Vote Lumpen.
I think you have misunderstood a few things.

Unconfirmed Mason means that I am Masons with Ernie, this is established in our role PM's, and it just means that our special role power is the ability to talk with each other privately out of the thread as much as we want. The "Unconfirmed" part means that neither of us knows for sure what the other's alignment is. One of us could be Scum and the other Town, or we could both be Town. Or we could both be Scum and completely fabricating the claim (but that would be a very dumb gambit). In contrast, if we had been given the role Confirmed Mason, then we woukd know for sure that we were both Town (Confirmed by the Mod).

Lumpen's Infallible Scumtellidex, posted in the jokephase, is an old in-joke. I created that list in the Mafia Discussion Thread several years ago and it's always good for starting arguments. I posted it here mostly to troll a self-important person who is not in this game but was/is presumably watching.

That lurking sucks and only benefits Scum is an uncontroversial and important Mafia truth. I contend again that my efforts to keep the thread active are a positive thing for the game and inherently benefit Town.

Hopefully in light of this information you'll reconsider you premises in judging me. I'm Town, and I think you're very likely Town too after that post :)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Ernie. posted:

##vote hiipfire

this post is grandstanding. it doesn't actually achieve anything. why is it worded as if it's trying to convince lumpen that he himself is scum?

moreover it comes off to me as hiipfire posting what he thinks a townie would be thinking rather than what a townie would actually think which is

this post is significantly weaker than the f_v one; calling the wording the way it is seems dumb as opposed to the more up-front reading that it's just biting and sarcastic

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Captain Foo posted:

this was an early vote though it's not actually horrible reasoning, and lumpen trying to push it as "really terrible" is a reach and a half
It is actually horrible reasoning.

Ernie himself called it "the scummiest vote in the game".

I agree with you on the HiipFire vote though.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Lumpen posted:

It is actually horrible reasoning.

Ernie himself called it "the scummiest vote in the game".


¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

quote:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Captain Foo posted:

this post is significantly weaker than the f_v one; calling the wording the way it is seems dumb as opposed to the more up-front reading that it's just biting and sarcastic

but it's not, sarcasm has a function and that's dismissal. the wording hiipfire used is directed at lumpen. will he really manage to get lumpen to dismiss lumpen?

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Sick 90 posts, im gonna assume most of it is about voting lumpen though, which is pretty null cause every game I've played with lumpen the people want him dead

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

imgay posted:

Sick 90 posts, im gonna assume most of it is about voting lumpen though, which is pretty null cause every game I've played with lumpen the people want him dead

Who should we lynch?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Ernie. posted:

but it's not, sarcasm has a function and that's dismissal. the wording hiipfire used is directed at lumpen. will he really manage to get lumpen to dismiss lumpen?

why would you ever think that someone is trying to convince someone that they themselves are scum

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Prob Kash or TMM, i think they are both aggressively cautious players that will yield some decent content after a flip. if you flip lumpen its gonna be like digging around a garbage dump for anything useful

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Ernie. posted:

HiipFire posted:

you know, it's really impressive that you think people who are hedgy are scum while thats the exact thing you do in this post
##vote hiipfire

this post is grandstanding. it doesn't actually achieve anything. why is it worded as if it's trying to convince lumpen that he himself is scum?

moreover it comes off to me as hiipfire posting what he thinks a townie would be thinking rather than what a townie would actually think which is
It seems to me that HiipFire was intending to call me a hypocrite, and a Scum, and for others to come to the same conclusion. It was based on a misunderstanding or mischaracterizarion of my post about Rarity, and it is not a good justification to vote me, but it came off as a plausibly sincere post to me and not at all an alarming Scumpost like Ernie makes it out to be. So Ernie's criticism of it and use as a justification to vote are wrong and bad, in my opinion.

The second part, contrasting Hiip's posting with Someone Awful and saying Someone Awful ia making good, Townie posts, I agree with.

I wouldn't be inclined to vote HiipFire today.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012

Lumpen posted:

It seems to me that HiipFire was intending to call me a hypocrite, and a Scum, and for others to come to the same conclusion. It was based on a misunderstanding or mischaracterizarion of my post about Rarity, and it is not a good justification to vote me, but it came off as a plausibly sincere post to me and not at all an alarming Scumpost like Ernie makes it out to be. So Ernie's criticism of it and use as a justification to vote are wrong and bad, in my opinion.

The second part, contrasting Hiip's posting with Someone Awful and saying Someone Awful ia making good, Townie posts, I agree with.

I wouldn't be inclined to vote HiipFire today.

it's like you're repeating everything i'm saying. i called his post grandstanding, too. sniping from the sidelines so 'other people come to the same conclusion' is also scummy. you either put it in no uncertain terms that you think someone is scummy or you vote them or you don't think they're suspicious. oddly hitting the middle ground just screams someone unsure of how to voice their opinion because they have something to hide.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
1-800-GAMBLER


Ultra Carp

Rarity posted:

Guys, can we all take a moment to appreciate how poo poo this post is?

Now this is how I know to play Mafia: in an exceedingly petty fashion. :colbert: ##vote rarity

I'm Cheedo the Fragile, by the way. Wives unite!

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Now this is how I know to play Mafia: in an exceedingly petty fashion. :colbert: ##vote rarity

I'm Cheedo the Fragile, by the way. Wives unite!

##vote ace13

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

imgay posted:

Prob Kash or TMM, i think they are both aggressively cautious players that will yield some decent content after a flip. if you flip lumpen its gonna be like digging around a garbage dump for anything useful

How can someone be aggressively cautious? It's an oxymoron.

This seems like a weak post and there is no actual scum hunting in it. Imgay doesn't seem to think that either of us scum but thinks our flips will generate content.

Would vote imgay.

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Interesting, we still have six who haven't voted.

apostateCourier
Colonel Corazon
imgay
Kashuno
Lumpen
Someone Awful!

They might bear watching. And oh hey, Lumpen is in the list.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

LowellDND posted:

Interesting, we still have six who haven't voted.

apostateCourier
Colonel Corazon
imgay
Kashuno
Lumpen
Someone Awful!

They might bear watching. And oh hey, Lumpen is in the list.

Actually I think several of them have voted but then unvoted at some point.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



TMMadman posted:

Also, I don't like this post either. It doesn't seem like an outburst but what he believes. Plus there is a fatal flaw Chamales post because I think that guy is new and he doesn't seem to know that around here it seems like scum throw each other under the bus more often than they protect each other. Lumpen spent half of the Pearl game sniping at me despite both of us being scum there.

Killing everyone and everything!

You have a point, I'm used to seeing scum stick together but that's because the real-life games I've played were at least 50% completely new people. So my attempt to assess who is scum, which was largely based on my suspicion of Lumpen, may be off. But I'm still personally convinced that Lumpen is scum.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

Ernie. posted:

it's like you're repeating everything i'm saying. i called his post grandstanding, too. sniping from the sidelines so 'other people come to the same conclusion' is also scummy. you either put it in no uncertain terms that you think someone is scummy or you vote them or you don't think they're suspicious. oddly hitting the middle ground just screams someone unsure of how to voice their opinion because they have something to hide.
He was already voting me. He had put it in no uncertain terms. The only thing Scummy about HiipFire's post is that it targeted a Townie. You were totally off base with the false "gotcha" of saying he was "addressing Lumpen as if to convince Lumpen that Lumpen is Scum", but now you've apparently abandoned that and now say it's Scummy that he was calling me out for perceived hypocrisy with a snarky post? That's not particularly Scummy, just wrong. Grandstanding as you've just redefined it is not Scummy, in my opinion. There was nothing in that post that hinted at "oddly hitting a middle ground", he was clearly critical and seemed to believe he had a valid point (although he in fact didn't). He was mischaracterizing my post, but not in what I judge to be a calculatedly malevolent or disingenuous way, or logically incongruent (as you were previously contending).

Your posting and voting has been much more Scummy than HiipFire's.

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop
##Vote Ernie

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Chamale posted:

Killing everyone and everything!

You have a point, I'm used to seeing scum stick together but that's because the real-life games I've played were at least 50% completely new people. So my attempt to assess who is scum, which was largely based on my suspicion of Lumpen, may be off. But I'm still personally convinced that Lumpen is scum.

I'm just not seeing Lumpen as scum right now. Some of it probably because I was just in a game with him where we were both scum and his posting here seems more focused and directly engaging than it did in the other game. Sure, he's posting a lot and some of it weird, but it doesn't seem insincere or out of place really and nobody can say he isn't getting reactions from his posting.

Hey Lumpen, what do you think of this imgay post:

imgay posted:

Prob Kash or TMM, i think they are both aggressively cautious players that will yield some decent content after a flip. if you flip lumpen its gonna be like digging around a garbage dump for anything useful

While I have my doubts about Kash, you seem to think he is town and I believe your thinking the same thing for me, so how does this post sit with you?

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Why do people keep saying they're thinking of lynching me but don't vote it's weird

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Kashuno posted:

Why do people keep saying they're thinking of lynching me but don't vote it's weird

Hey, I voted for you!

Lumpen
Apr 2, 2004

I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.
Plaster Town Cop

TMMadman posted:

Hey Lumpen, what do you think of this imgay post:

While I have my doubts about Kash, you seem to think he is town and I believe your thinking the same thing for me, so how does this post sit with you?
Dumb not Scum. imgay hasn't posted much but what he's postes hasn't set off my Scumdar at all. Vaguely mentioning a couple of not-likely-viable lynches seems more like an honest opinion than a Scum-minded move. I can understand why it may seem more menacing when it's about oneself, though. Are you being fair or just having an OMGUS reaction?

TMM is currently more likely to be Scum, in my view, than either imgay or kashuno.

I'm going to make a LumpenList in the morning.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Lumpen posted:

Dumb not Scum. imgay hasn't posted much but what he's postes hasn't set off my Scumdar at all. Vaguely mentioning a couple of not-likely-viable lynches seems more like an honest opinion than a Scum-minded move. I can understand why it may seem more menacing when it's about oneself, though. Are you being fair or just having an OMGUS reaction?

TMM is currently more likely to be Scum, in my view, than either imgay or kashuno.

I'm going to make a LumpenList in the morning.

No, I'm being fair. He didn't vote me and I still think Kashuno is probably scum.

I just think his post is odd because it came right after him basically saying that he didn't read the last 90+ posts because he assumes most of it revolved around you and then when f_v asks who he would lynch today, he pops up with that post. So it feels like he's just picking two names out of hat and saying our flips will generate content, not that he thinks we are actually scum.

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
TMM and Kash are the kind of scum that would kill me n1, so your pressure on my seems scummy. I'm not voting because I haven't actually read those 90 or so posts I skipped over

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

imgay posted:

TMM and Kash are the kind of scum that would kill me n1, so your pressure on my seems scummy. I'm not voting because I haven't actually read those 90 or so posts I skipped over

Wait, what? If I'm the kind of scum that would kill you on N1, then why would I be questioning you on D1? I'd just ignore you and then kill you. This post doesn't make any sense at all.

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Holy poo poo, what a wierd deflection, I'm not even pushing you hard. You shouldn't jump on that baity bait so quick there bucko.

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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

imgay posted:

Holy poo poo, what a wierd deflection, I'm not even pushing you hard. You shouldn't jump on that baity bait so quick there bucko.

It's not a matter of you pushing me. It's a matter of you holding an inconsistent position because you have no idea what I'd do as scum. Hell, half the time people don't understand why I do what I do as town, so do you really think you could peg my motives if I was scum?

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