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Pollyanna posted:"Hey, my Kanban board is looking a little empty, is there anything good I can take up? Also, on what I mentioned during the last one-on-one, I'd love to maybe work on the SDK, or the data platform, or even on the front-end UI side, maybe." Well you could always do more "performance testing" and generate confusing graphs with so much crap you can't understand a thing. These go well with your boss's 5,000 word emails of useless information that are regularly sent to superiors to show how we're keeping on top of things! (tm) While the business spends months deliberating what products features to not release, and QA tries to figure out how git works. Wait that's my job, oops.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:03
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Pollyanna posted:I started with a cohort of 2 or 3 peers of similar skill levels to me. Within the next 4 months or so, we hired a good 8+ people of the same skill level. Most of these people started in the same team I started at, alongside me, and eventually were moved to other more interesting feature crews and teams. They've also been noted in email chains and all-hands for helping out on serious improvements to our product and process. I, on the other hand, have not really moved teams and haven't been given the chance to involve myself in things like those. I feel like the rest of my cohort advanced while I have remained stagnant, and I'm not quite sure why. You've been pigeonholed because you likely didn't make a good impression early on. There's now a hole to climb out of, and the climb may not really be feasible. As a young developer, I was in a position where I was supporting an app no one else wanted to support, and though I worked on multiple side projects that helped the entire team out, and asked for more work, I never really got any recognition or respect from leadership because early on, I made some huge political mistakes and despite technical skill was never looked at as someone who could handle responsibility. My attitude at the time mirrored this, I wasn't confident and the negative feedback was a constant downer. Then I switched jobs, and with a new outlook on life, within a year found myself leading some of the most interesting projects available and soon got promoted into a leadership role. I've now turned that opportunity into another career path in technical leadership that I couldn't have imagined just 5 years ago. A fresh start can be an excellent thing, just make sure you take some learned lessons away from your current job. For me, the major takeaways were to have confidence in my abilities, to defend my decisions, and to understand the line between taking charge and being a loose cannon. Also, here's a little truth - there's only so much good and interesting development work available, but a metric ton of poo poo work to do. If you aren't visible, likable, politically aware, and demonstrably competent, you often don't get to work on the good stuff.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:36
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baquerd posted:Also, here's a little truth - there's only so much good and interesting development work available, but a metric ton of poo poo work to do. If you aren't visible, likable, politically aware, and demonstrably competent, you often don't get to work on the good stuff. There can be value in poo poo work. I've got a ton of old, poorly made Angular apps to refactor & standardize, and while it's not exactly exciting, I enjoy the challenge of refactoring everything to a consistent state. Of course, I'm the main person pushing for the standardization and made all the decisions on what the standards should be, and it would not be nearly so interesting otherwise.
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Sep 9, 2015 18:55
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JawnV6 posted:1) Look up "set up to fail" and read last decade's MBA's describe your situation I am incredulous at how accurately Set Up to Fail describes my exact situation. Like, holy poo poo, this is exactly how it feels - doesn't matter if it's objectively happening or not, I don't want it to loving continue anyway. It's also a great reminder that the reason I feel like poo poo is because my situation is poo poo, and if I improve it my mood is likely to improve too - it's not inherent to me being me. The part about subordinates either withdrawing from their bosses or going to them for everything is particularly hilarious to me - both happen in my case, it's just that the second was a reaction to negative feedback about the first, and it's still clearly annoying to him! I can't win, so I'm not gonna play the game. There's still one thing left to do, and that's figure out what I've learned from this job. I can tell you that one thing I've learned is that if you're not excited to work on something, you're probably gonna hate it, so make sure you enjoy what you do. I don't want to do Rails janitoring and crappy bug fixes because I feel like that's all they think I'm good for - I get bitchwork that amounts to "change the text in this HTML here please", and I don't care enough to suggest integrating an outside service to handle marketing updates and poo poo. Oh, yeah - I've also learned to have more confidence, or I won't ever get confidence. For example, my manager has outright expressed disliking my manner of speech - his words! - and I think that's plain bullshit, so I'm not gonna let that gently caress me up again. I'm not going to apologize for my personality, just cause someone doesn't like it. (And I know the difference between personality and having a lovely attitude/being a plain rear end in a top hat, trust me.) Man. I got a lot of thinking and email writing to do. Edit: And I don't resent poo poo work - I resent only getting poo poo work. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 19:43
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JawnV6 posted:1) Look up "set up to fail" and read last decade's MBA's describe your situation Huh, that describes my experience in my first job pretty well.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:39
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Pollyanna posted:Oh, yeah - I've also learned to have more confidence, or I won't ever get confidence. For example, my manager has outright expressed disliking my manner of speech - his words! - and I think that's plain bullshit, so I'm not gonna let that gently caress me up again. I'm not going to apologize for my personality, just cause someone doesn't like it. (And I know the difference between personality and having a lovely attitude/being a plain rear end in a top hat, trust me.) Well, there's a very fine line there, I wouldn't discount feedback of this sort entirely because it most likely means there's room to improve if nothing else. If you're not seeing a therapist at least a few times a year, they can be very helpful as neutral observers to the way you come across.
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Sep 9, 2015 21:56
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Munkeymon posted:Huh, that describes my experience in my first job pretty well. Holy crap, that describes three out of my last five jobs.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:04
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Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:Holy crap, that describes three out of my last five jobs. With a .600 batting average I think it's time to think about if it's really the luck of the draw.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:18
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baquerd posted:Well, there's a very fine line there, I wouldn't discount feedback of this sort entirely because it most likely means there's room to improve if nothing else. If you're not seeing a therapist at least a few times a year, they can be very helpful as neutral observers to the way you come across.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:31
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Vulture Culture posted:I would suffix this by saying that different rules apply to interpreting this kind of feedback if you're a woman, also. Women routinely receive personality-oriented complaints, particularly about tone and communication style, in performance reviews -- very significantly more than men do. Women should consider the difference between real issues with communication style versus systemic bias in the workplace. I've already gotten dinged for somehow being both "too meek" and "too aggressive" at the same time, so at the risk of disturbing the shrughes, this is a real thing and is already a concern. I already have a therapist and she is somehow even more horrified at the situation than I am, so I don't think that's the case anyway. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 22:33
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piratepilates posted:With a .600 batting average I think it's time to think about if it's really the luck of the draw. It also pretty much describes the start of the movie Office Space so it's probably a pretty common defect in manager/employee relationships.
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Sep 9, 2015 22:35
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piratepilates posted:With a .600 batting average I think it's time to think about if it's really the luck of the draw. 
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Sep 10, 2015 00:07
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So how exactly do you schedule an interview, phone or in-person, during the work week? I can't imagine saying "hey, I'll be out from X to Y on Thursday, I've got an interview to go to" going over particularly well, and I'm worried I'll get caught if I do it in some random meeting room at work. I'd take a personal day or work from home, but I'm already in hot water for doing that too much for my manager's tastes, and I don't want to get fired before I'm hired elsewhere. I've also started thinking about what I want to do for my next job. Something I really wanted to do during this job was to get more front-end experience (data viz, etc.), but unfortunately that front-end experience was Angular which I've subsequently sworn off ever working with (don't try and convince me otherwise). What kind of skills should I build as I progress in my career? Higher level skills like how to plan an application, how to refactor, how to write specs and documentation, and architecture and all that come to mind. I've got a bunch of books to read! Also, maybe I'll look into remote work, or consulting, or freelancing. Or, I dunno. Some sort of change. Speaking of my manager, he responded to a few concerns I raised on our feedback tracker. I brought up the conflicting messages I was getting, and got a response from him. I think he's misinterpreting my concern about being "too aggressive" as relating to me requesting PR reviews (which are required for the code to be merged and for me to know if I didn't gently caress something totally different up, and which to be fair I get a little whiny about sometimes) and being blocked on progress, rather than my actual concern which was about the feedback I got when I asked people filing tickets to separate exploration tickets from bug fix tickets from dev tickets, which was "don't be so aggressive". That's what really bugs me. He's also said that he's trying to balance giving me guidance on how to solve a problem vs. giving me harder and harder problems to solve on my own - but the guidance he gives me is really...well, almost brain-dead. He asks me a lot of questions after I look at code with him - "do you understand?", etc. - and I appreciate that he wants me to keep up with it, but I can't really do anything but go "yep" cause the things he asks me about are pretty straightforward, especially when it's about how functions work and what a particular controller does and all that. I can figure that out by staring at the code for a bit. That's not really want I want guidance on - it's more about things like what the code means in a larger context and how I should approach improving the code and all that. I don't know if he really gets that that's the kind of guidance I'm looking for. Then again, I don't know if he thinks I'm really capable of thinking that way, anyway. My next concern boiled down to "I don't feel like I'm in a position to handle design decisions because I don't feel like I'm trusted enough to tackle them without having my hand held/my choices questioned" - and "questioned" here is less about my code's correctness and more about my sanity and about confidence in my ability to get things done. The response was that I was probably feeling frustrated because I'm "not at a level where we can delegate independently to you". They seem to think the fault relies in my raw skill and ability to "handle things", it sounds like they think "poo poo, that problem's too hard for her, get her to change the text in this HTML block here". And, in general, they just don't think I'm up to the task. They can think what they want, but it certainly doesn't make me feel good to hear it, and I don't feel on track to improve in that sense with where I'm going right now. (Keep in mind, though, that this is just the one guy. I have no idea if it's more than one person with this viewpoint.) It sounds like they think I'm too junior, and that it will take a considerable amount of time to "ramp me up" long enough for me to be useful. That...totally sucks, and I don't think I agree with it. Maybe he does mean well, and maybe I'm the real rear end in a top hat here - but I still don't really feel happy with where I am right now, and I don't know if the problem has been solved per se or if things will be okay even if it is solved. I guess it just comes down to bad luck. Also, holy poo poo at this being ultimately an issue of trust. Talk about a recurring theme in my life.  Our one-on-one is tomorrow, so we'll see if that clarifies anything. In the meantime, I still wanna do something else, somewhere else, so I'm still focusing my effort on the future. Ideally something that involves neither Rails nor Angular. (Sorry, Rails. I'm just sick of you. Not sorry, Angular. Better luck next time.) Also, Doctor w-rw-rw-, I only just now got the joke in your name 
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Sep 11, 2015 01:26
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"Hey, I'm going to be out from X to Y on Thursday." With maybe a "I'll catch up on anything I missed later tonight, so if you've got anything in particular me, just shoot me a mail."
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Sep 11, 2015 01:43
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Doctors appointments are a good one. Imply it's about something serious or sensitive so they don't ask for details. Dentist works as well too, especially since you can follow up with "have to go back to get cavity filled" or something, without much hassle. Edit: PS, you are totally missing out on Angular, it's great and 2.0 will be the bestest evar! Skandranon fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Sep 11, 2015 |
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Sep 11, 2015 01:50
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Pollyanna posted:I'd take a personal day or work from home, but I'm already in hot water for doing that too much for my manager's tastes, How many days have you taken off this year?
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Sep 11, 2015 02:10
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kitten smoothie posted:"Hey, I'm going to be out from X to Y on Thursday." Well, it seems to work just fine if I say I'm gonna be out of the office or taking a personal day. Maybe I will just go ahead and do that. Skandranon posted:Doctors appointments are a good one. Imply it's about something serious or sensitive so they don't ask for details. Dentist works as well too, especially since you can follow up with "have to go back to get cavity filled" or something, without much hassle. I have doctors appointments (actually therapy) every other Tuesday from 9-10 already, so they might get suspicious. Then again, not my problem. Also I dunno man, Angular already carries a lot of baggage with me... ExcessBLarg! posted:Don't you have a specific number of PTO days? Or is this one of those "unlimited vacation" places. Unlimited vacation, and zero, but I do not want to because 1. manager's already pissy about me working from home too much according to him (then again, if I'm leaving, might as well take what I can get) and 2. gently caress am I gonna do with vacation time? I wouldn't really do anything I wouldn't do on the weekend. I don't have kids or...people to go on vacations with...let's talk about something else 
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Sep 11, 2015 02:37
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Pollyanna posted:So how exactly do you schedule an interview, phone or in-person, during the work week? I can't imagine saying "hey, I'll be out from X to Y on Thursday, I've got an interview to go to" going over particularly well, and I'm worried I'll get caught if I do it in some random meeting room at work. I'd take a personal day or work from home, but I'm already in hot water for doing that too much for my manager's tastes, and I don't want to get fired before I'm hired elsewhere. Here's how to put the fear of god into them: "I'm getting some treatment for my brain cancer. By the way, we might need to talk about short term disability soon."
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Sep 11, 2015 02:48
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Pollyanna posted:So how exactly do you schedule an interview, phone or in-person, during the work week? I can't imagine saying "hey, I'll be out from X to Y on Thursday, I've got an interview to go to" going over particularly well, and I'm worried I'll get caught if I do it in some random meeting room at work. I'd take a personal day or work from home, but I'm already in hot water for doing that too much for my manager's tastes, and I don't want to get fired before I'm hired elsewhere. Pollyanna posted:I've also started thinking about what I want to do for my next job. Something I really wanted to do during this job was to get more front-end experience (data viz, etc.), but unfortunately that front-end experience was Angular which I've subsequently sworn off ever working with (don't try and convince me otherwise). What kind of skills should I build as I progress in my career? Higher level skills like how to plan an application, how to refactor, how to write specs and documentation, and architecture and all that come to mind. I've got a bunch of books to read! Also, maybe I'll look into remote work, or consulting, or freelancing. Or, I dunno. Some sort of change. Pollyanna posted:He's also said that he's trying to balance giving me guidance on how to solve a problem vs. giving me harder and harder problems to solve on my own - but the guidance he gives me is really...well, almost brain-dead. He asks me a lot of questions after I look at code with him - "do you understand?", etc. - and I appreciate that he wants me to keep up with it, but I can't really do anything but go "yep" cause the things he asks me about are pretty straightforward, especially when it's about how functions work and what a particular controller does and all that. I can figure that out by staring at the code for a bit. That's not really want I want guidance on - it's more about things like what the code means in a larger context and how I should approach improving the code and all that. I don't know if he really gets that that's the kind of guidance I'm looking for. Pollyanna posted:It sounds like they think I'm too junior, and that it will take a considerable amount of time to "ramp me up" long enough for me to be useful. That...totally sucks, and I don't think I agree with it. Maybe he does mean well, and maybe I'm the real rear end in a top hat here - but I still don't really feel happy with where I am right now, and I don't know if the problem has been solved per se or if things will be okay even if it is solved. I guess it just comes down to bad luck. Also, holy poo poo at this being ultimately an issue of trust. Talk about a recurring theme in my life. Pollyanna posted:Also, Doctor w-rw-rw-, I only just now got the joke in your name  Pollyanna posted:zero, but I do not want to because 1. manager's already pissy about me working from home too much according to him (then again, if I'm leaving, might as well take what I can get) and 2. gently caress am I gonna do with vacation time? I wouldn't really do anything I wouldn't do on the weekend. I don't have kids or...people to go on vacations with...let's talk about something else 2. Walk or drive around, eat food (familiar or new), browse the internet, and distance yourself from stress? Taking zero vacations is not good.
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Sep 11, 2015 02:50
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Or spend 3 weeks doing nothing but interviews. Come back, give 2 weeks notice first day.
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Sep 11, 2015 03:00
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Pollyanna, you don't seem like an rear end in a top hat by a long shot. But I do wonder about the continued drama in your life. It seems like you pop up on SA every six months or so with a new problem, and while you've definitely come a long way in your professional career it sounds like you have a lot of trouble figuring out what others expect of you vs your own expectations. Can you point out any differences between yourself and the other dozen or so junior developers? Unless they are all male it doesn't sound like sexism alone. Do you have any friends at work that you can talk to? It's worth considering whether you're making any 'rookie mistakes' at your first real job; normally when I've seen fresh grads flounder it's not due to technical skills but all of the other adjustments that come from working in a professional environment.
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Sep 11, 2015 03:16
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Hackathon trip report: would have been better off skipping the event altogether, and just having a dinner and beers out with my would-be teammates. The assigned challenge was way too narrow, so it came down to 45 teams basically building the exact same thing. Very little way to differentiate yourself into a winning project. Was good to meet some local developers but at the same time I feel like I pissed away an absolutely gorgeous fall weekend. I'm not going to do one of these things again.
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Sep 14, 2015 00:27
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Yep. Par for the course.
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Sep 14, 2015 00:39
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Yeah, the organizing group's tag line was "the worlds best hackathons," which in hindsight kind of reads like "the world's best asbestos."
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Sep 14, 2015 01:54
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If you're a software developer with a few years of experience and claim to be a lead developer at your current position, should you send a thank you e-mail after an interview? I had an interview this past Friday at a company I think I'd actually like to work for. It's a strange feeling. I'm not sure if I should send a thank you note or not. It seems like such an outmoded concept, but I feel like I've forgotten how to actually try hard to get a job someplace so I have no idea if this is a good or idea or not. Cryolite fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 03:41
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Cryolite posted:If you're a software developer with a few years of experience and claim to be a lead developer at your current position, should you send a thank you e-mail after an interview? I think it's not a bad idea at all to send a real quick "hey $MANAGER, was great speaking with you on $DATE, look forward to hearing more from you" email the following business day. It's a nice touch. You don't need to go all Emily Post or anything, just two or three sentences. The last two times I've done this, they responded within an hour with with something along the lines of "we enjoyed talking with you too; HR is already writing the offer as we speak, so hang tight." So the email wasn't what got me the job, but it was a nice polite thank you, and also a good oblique way to find out sooner that they were getting an offer out.
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Sep 14, 2015 03:56
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Cryolite posted:If you're a software developer with a few years of experience and claim to be a lead developer at your current position, should you send a thank you e-mail after an interview? If you really need to think about it this hard, think about this: Do you want to work for someone who gets offended by a thank-you email?
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Sep 14, 2015 07:27
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No one is offended by a thank you email. Someone might get offended due to the lack of one, and whether you find that reasonable or not/a person worth working under, is up to you. What do we know about Twitter, and their Boston campus in particular? They seem to be looking for engineers to join their teams, and I'm curious if Twitter has the same standup-y environment as other places, re: work-life balance, PTO and benefits, whatever's important for 401k stuff.
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Sep 14, 2015 15:37
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Pollyanna posted:No one is offended by a thank you email. Someone might get offended due to the lack of one, and whether you find that reasonable or not/a person worth working under, is up to you.
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Sep 14, 2015 15:44
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Pollyanna posted:No one is offended by a thank you email. Someone might get offended due to the lack of one, and whether you find that reasonable or not/a person worth working under, is up to you. This is just anecdata, a friend of mine (I don't want to name the team, but it was non-engineering) swore off tech companies completely when she quit Twitter (SF). It sounded really bad, but it is a big company. If you get an offer, it might be a good idea to talk to and get a good feel for whatever team you'd be joining.
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Sep 14, 2015 20:22
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Good to hear. I'm surprised to hear such a negative review of Twitter's teams, so I'll keep an eye out for that. I have a phone call with Twitter in about 20 minutes. Been a while since I interviewed, so I'm pretty nervous.  At least I can't end up in a worse position by having it.
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Sep 15, 2015 15:25
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Cryolite posted:If you're a software developer with a few years of experience and claim to be a lead developer at your current position, should you send a thank you e-mail after an interview? Just don't track down your interviewer's personal email address and send them an email there thanking them for the interview. Yes I had this happen.
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Sep 15, 2015 15:33
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Twitter phone call went well! They're working on some pretty cool stuff, and I definitely want to move onto the phone/code screening part. Fingers crossed. The hard part is moving on from my current company, if this pans out. I feel a little bad for leaving so soon, especially since my manager seems to have clarified his position - he does want to see me be more independent and make my own decisions, but on the other hand he feels like I still need more time to ramp up and doesn't yet trust me to handle things like that. I'm also not really feeling the position anymore, for various reasons. The people are really cool and I made a good few friends I'd like to keep in touch with, but I just don't feel comfortable or stable at the place anymore. So, I'll probably be moving on...in which case, I need to start thinking about how to work my interviewing in with my weekly schedule. It's still a little awkward to be working this sort of thing into my day-to-day job schedule, since interviewing tends to be very ad hoc in terms of scheduling. I took a personal day off today partly to recover from stress and partly to get errands done, but I did manage to get this phone call down - I don't want to push the personal days thing much, though, because I don't have an offer in hand right now. Let's just hope I manage to balance everything. --- Thinking about whether I'm a junior or senior engineer, I've come to the conclusion that it's not really about titles in any way. What matters is the responsibilities and expectations given to me:
I'm genuinely interested in becoming a better engineer and a better employee/team member, so hearing about what other things I should add to this list would be really appreciated. I've kinda been burned by the feedback I got from my current manager...
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Sep 15, 2015 16:55
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Pollyanna posted:Thinking about whether I'm a junior or senior engineer, I've come to the conclusion that it's not really about titles in any way. Points in favor of junior - Relatively new to industry Points in favor of senior - Told to stop posting in newbie thread so much by mod.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:07
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Oh poo poo, I'm actually kind of terrified of the coding screen for Twitter. I don't know what they'll be quizzing me on, and I'm imagining it being all in Scala...although I don't think it would be. Online posts about Twitter coding screens are neutral to negative. Well, I tried. Might as well go out as best as I can.Flat Daddy posted:Points in favor of junior To be fair I'm pretty sure shrughes has had the second happen to him as well  I guess that's a good metric as any. Maybe I'm a mid-level engie.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:27
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Pollyanna posted:Been a while since I interviewed, so I'm pretty nervous. Your entire career is shorter than gaps I've had between interviews.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:50
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Pollyanna posted:The hard part is moving on from my current company, if this pans out. I feel a little bad for leaving so soon, especially since my manager seems to have clarified his position - he does want to see me be more independent and make my own decisions, but on the other hand he feels like I still need more time to ramp up and doesn't yet trust me to handle things like that. I'm also not really feeling the position anymore, for various reasons. The people are really cool and I made a good few friends I'd like to keep in touch with, but I just don't feel comfortable or stable at the place anymore. Stop feeling like that. Life is too short to be working some place you aren't happy. Doubly so in this field. You spend a few years slacking, and it can be really hard to catch up. If Twitter, or wherever else, is offering you the opportunity to work on something you find interesting and the money is good, take it, and don't look back.
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Sep 15, 2015 17:57
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Flat Daddy posted:Points in favor of junior You can just be a "developer". No junior/senior modification. I'd say the distinction is (roughly): Junior: Not expected to work without guidance on anything except very simple tasks. Needs to be watched fairly closely to make sure everything they're doing is good. Juniors may not know enough to know when they're doing something wrong or badly, so they need a higher degree of supervision. Does not participate actively in architectural discussions, although may be included to observe for learning purposes. Mid-level: Expected to work without guidance on moderately complex tasks. Needs less supervision; they can be trusted for the most part to do things well. They should be expected to know when to ask for clarification or guidance. Expected to play a role in architectural discussions. Senior: Expected to be able to work without guidance on most tasks and work largely unsupervised. Has a bigger role in architectural decisions.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:01
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Pollyanna posted:Oh poo poo, I'm actually kind of terrified of the coding screen for Twitter. I don't know what they'll be quizzing me on, and I'm imagining it being all in Scala... I guarantee you unless you're applying for a specific position like Android developer, the programming interviews will be choose-your-own-language. Really though, you're over thinking everything.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:11
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Pollyanna posted:Oh poo poo, I'm actually kind of terrified of the coding screen for Twitter. I don't know what they'll be quizzing me on, and I'm imagining it being all in Scala...although I don't think it would be. Online posts about Twitter coding screens are neutral to negative. The most important part is to not panic. Try to keep calm and pretend like you are working WITH your interviewers through the problem together. Talk out loud, ask questions, draw stuff on the whiteboard to describe your thoughts. Getting the answer perfect is not the goal, but presenting yourself as a developer who can tackle problems and reason through them. They want to know you are someone that they can work with, and be trusted to handle some tasks on your own. They aren't looking for you to rewrite all of Twitter in Brainfuck and improve performance by 200%.
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Sep 15, 2015 18:16
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