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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Captain Foo posted:

ok f_v i see where you're coming from. rarity had some of the same things i had to say about not pushing for lynches except for the fact that she sees it as scummy behavior

i don't care abotu the contentgame slapfight at all, it wasn't trying to be used at a time it was activley unhelpful; otoh most people were just using it as a pseudoextension of jokephase

my point is that i very clearly outlined why lumpen wasn't acting scummy but rarity takes the opportunity to call threadleading scummy and vote

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someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Acebuckeye13 posted:

I'm not sure! I'm gonna try to re-read this thread tonight and try to get some ideas going. I've got some ideas, but I don't want to make a knee-jerk claim when there's still plenty of time to discuss the vote. May not be able to go over it as much as I'd like tonight though, got a poo poo-ton to read for my classes tomorrow.


This is also a good point. Is there anyone willing to counterclaim Max?

You have to have opinions on someone, dude. Don't be afraid to be wrong. Be bold. :)

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Acebuckeye13 posted:

I'm not sure! I'm gonna try to re-read this thread tonight and try to get some ideas going. I've got some ideas, but I don't want to make a knee-jerk claim when there's still plenty of time to discuss the vote. May not be able to go over it as much as I'd like tonight though, got a poo poo-ton to read for my classes tomorrow.


This is also a good point. Is there anyone willing to counterclaim Max?

mafia jargon: what you're talking about isn't claiming, it's making a read

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



We're not going back.

Colonel Corazon posted:

TMM wasn't killed by scum.

Yes, he was.

SirSamVimes posted:

Night 1
  • TMMadman, The Valkyrie (town-aligned Vanilla Town) was riddled with bullets.
  • Ernie., Nux (town-aligned Mason Miller) was impaled.

Day 2 begins.


SirSamVimes posted:

Night 2: Lumpen, Capable (town-aligned Mason) was riddled with bullets.

"Riddled with bulllets" means that Scum killed a player, "impaled" means that the Serial Killer did it.


SirSamVimes posted:

There is nothing in the rules about lying about powers. No faking day actions means that you can't pretend to DO the power that you don't have because it just confuses the game while people wait for the mod to resolve/not resolve it. Someone could lie about being a double voter, but it would be very easy to catch them out seeing as they'd be unable to actually do said double vote.

Right, so by demonstrating that I can double vote I proved that I have that power, whereas for all we know imgay is lying about being a cop because he can't prove it. Flavourwise it makes perfect sense for Angharad to have the double voting power, and I can't think of any Scum characters who might get that power. Plus, as Captain Foo said, the power is usually a Town power. On that note I think I need to unvote again because the last undouble only removed one of them. I still think imgay is scum, but fiery_valkyrie asked us all to unvote so I will for now. ##unvote

Captain Foo posted:

why wouldn't rarity be investigated? she was at the center of a lot of discussion

OK, fair point.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Either way, it makes sense to hold off on imgay this round, since we basically have one of two possible results if we wait:

-He gets murdered by Scum since he's outed himself as a Cop, which vindicates his story (albeit posthumously).

-He doesn't get murdered, which means that it's pretty likely that he's scum and is lying.

I'm not sure who to vote for at the moment, but it does make sense to vote for someone other tham imgay at the moment (Though I do still kinda suspect him after some of his posts re: Lumpen, especially after it was already confirmed that Lumpen was a Mason). And hey, we can always lynch him tomorrow! (If he doesn't get murdered)

Other possible result: He is Scum, and by giving him an extra night, he kills someone and the Scum come closer to winning. Then he continues his innocent cop act and says it was so unfortunate that the scum killed someone else, after he asked to be protected at night.

Acebuckeye13 posted:

This is also a good point. Is there anyone willing to counterclaim Max?

The mod said that we don't know which characters are in this game. If no one counterclaims it might just mean that Max isn't in at all.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Chamale posted:

We're not going back.


Yes, he was.



"Riddled with bulllets" means that Scum killed a player, "impaled" means that the Serial Killer did it.

He was bus driven iirc, read corazon's post history

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


Colonel Corazon posted:

Oh I don't care. First time playing so I don't give a gently caress if I goof.

I'm the War Rig and bus driver which seems only kind of useful but I switched Lumpen and TMM so if I get this right your rear end was on the firing line and TMM's death was deliberate.

##vote Opop

HONK HONK!

this post specifically

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
So do you think anyone else is more qualified to be a cop than max?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Colonel Corazon posted:

Lumpen was suspecting chamale, which would give chamale a reason to kill him.


TMM wasn't killed by scum.


SirSamVimes posted:

Night 1
  • TMMadman, The Valkyrie (town-aligned Vanilla Town) was riddled with bullets.
  • Ernie., Nux (town-aligned Mason Miller) was impaled.

Day 2 begins.




:negative:

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Chamale posted:

We're not going back.

Yes, he was.

"Riddled with bulllets" means that Scum killed a player, "impaled" means that the Serial Killer did it.


What Corazon meant was that the scum didn't aim to kill TMM. They were trying to kill Lumpen with that kill.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

imgay posted:

So do you think anyone else is more qualified to be a cop than max?

Make a case on someone.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

fiery_valkyrie posted:

What Corazon meant was that the scum didn't aim to kill TMM. They were trying to kill Lumpen with that kill.

who they got on N2.

so who was lumpen putting the heat on?

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

Captain Foo posted:

who they got on N2.

so who was lumpen putting the heat on?

Chamale.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Captain Foo posted:

who they got on N2.

so who was lumpen putting the heat on?

Honestly, I think the Lumen kill was personal.

Experienced scum also don't automatically kill people just for thinking they're scum. You should know that.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


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Ultra Carp
Lumpen was leading a lot of the discussion, so it makes sense that he'd be targeted.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

A:

rarity, TMM, Colonel Corazon, kash, ernie, opop, chamale

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Honestly, I think the Lumen kill was personal.

Experienced scum also don't automatically kill people just for thinking they're scum. You should know that.

this is true but it's a good place to look, also there's no guarantee the scum are experienced

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Captain Foo posted:

A:

rarity, TMM, Colonel Corazon, kash, ernie, opop, chamale

of these, TMM, Kash, Ernie, Opop are dead

leaving rarity, chamale, colonel corazon

colonel corazon is near-definitely town

rarity and chamale being the two frontrunners

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I'm still susp of rarity, I don't like their votes and my inest called in them last night, so my susp haven't changed

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Honestly, I think the Lumen kill was personal.

Experienced scum also don't automatically kill people just for thinking they're scum. You should know that.

also, lumpen has been fairly accurate this game so i am gonna leverage that where I can

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Captain Foo posted:

this is true but it's a good place to look, also there's no guarantee the scum are experienced

There's just a lot of WIFOM in that for me. I'm not convinced by cases that rely on it.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Captain Foo posted:

also, lumpen has been fairly accurate this game so i am gonna leverage that where I can

I agree with a lot of his last Lumpen list.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

i could very much be wrong about saying a doublevoter is town, as a couple people have pointed out. i would tend to think scum doublevoter is imbalanced, but 1) that doesn't preclude it from existing regardless and 2) there might be something to balance it out

so let's go back to that being a null

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

fiery_valkyrie posted:

There's just a lot of WIFOM in that for me. I'm not convinced by cases that rely on it.

i'm not relying on it, i'm just using it as a starting point (or a continuation point as it were)

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

Lumpen posted:

Yeah if I was the intended nightkill then Opopanax is gonna flip Scum.
I still feel that Chamale is pretty obviously Scum too.

The Scum kill toward the top of the postcount suggests that the bottom of the postcount hides Scum.

I was pretty confident in Lumpen's thought processes, though I still suspect imgay more than chamale. I'd prefer to take them out in sequence.

I was thinking imgay and rarity were both scum before Lumpen got iced. The only person I can immediately think of with a half-decent reason to kill Lumpen is Cham.

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Why do you even think I'm scum in the first place?

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


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Ultra Carp
Actually, looking back at it I'm thinking Rarity is a pretty strong Scum candidate.

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town

-Tried to get people to back off voting Opop on D1 (Who was confirmed Scum)

-Hasn't posted since Kash got murdered

Obviously none of this is a guarantee, but were the vote held right now I think Rarity would be the strongest choice, given all other factors.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Colonel Corazon posted:

I was pretty confident in Lumpen's thought processes, though I still suspect imgay more than chamale. I'd prefer to take them out in sequence.

[explanation needed]

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Acebuckeye13 posted:

Actually, looking back at it I'm thinking Rarity is a pretty strong Scum candidate.

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town

-Tried to get people to back off voting Opop on D1 (Who was confirmed Scum)

-Hasn't posted since Kash got murdered

Obviously none of this is a guarantee, but were the vote held right now I think Rarity would be the strongest choice, given all other factors.

that's what your vote is actually for

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


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Ultra Carp

Captain Foo posted:

that's what your vote is actually for

I'll vote in my own drat time!

Which is now.

##vote Rarity

Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Acebuckeye13 posted:

Actually, looking back at it I'm thinking Rarity is a pretty strong Scum candidate.

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town

-Tried to get people to back off voting Opop on D1 (Who was confirmed Scum)

-Hasn't posted since Kash got murdered

Obviously none of this is a guarantee, but were the vote held right now I think Rarity would be the strongest choice, given all other factors.

That seems compelling.

##vote Rarity

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

i just re-read chamale who spent almost all of d1 railing against lumpen and calling him scum

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

LowellDND posted:

Im seeing some vote drop off from Lumpen, and I just want to restate why I think that’s a bad idea. Lumpen has:

Introduced himself as unconfirmed mason, and tried to do the playful 'maybe I am and maybe I’m not.’ This is a sign of a guilty conscience. Furthermore, Lumpen tried to make alliance with Ernie, as scum are prone to do.

Not content with that, Lumpen made a comprehensive list of rules for newbies to follow (one of which he violated immediately, with his OMGUS vote of me). This shows both that he is trying to control the narrative, as well as further proof of a guilty conscience. He lists such things as ‘over defensiveness, overemotionally, flailing, and sucking up’, all of which have been seen in this thread.

This can be noted in a later post, when he argues that ‘townies need to talk, while scum stay quiet.’ This is obviously an indicator that he wants the town to think that, and works within that strategy to talk nonstop. As a scum, he thinks that this will show he is part of the town, but he doesn’t realize he has already revealed himself thereby.

Vote Lumpen.

lowell, this is your only read in the entire game

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Someone Awful! posted:

this post specifically

Big rigs! I didn't understand the Colonel Corazon connection, you're right. The Scum were evidently trying to kill Lumpen two days in a row.

imgay posted:

So do you think anyone else is more qualified to be a cop than max?

I'm saying we don't know if Max, or the cop role, is in this game at all. But I've proven that I have some kind of role that can double vote, and Angharad is the logical character for it to be; I can't imagine the flavour justification for the People Eater or Bullet Farmer having those roles, for example, because Joe hates them equally.

I went back to read Day 2 again and I found evidence that I think is damning against imgay. Here's my case. First fifteen posts on page 19. No one accuses Rarity of being Scum during any of day 2, but people accuse me of being Scum.

Lumpen posted:

LumpenList™ Day 2 Page 19
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


Feeling pretty darn solid on this.

On the top of Lumpen's list, he lists Opoponax, me, and imgay. Rarity is in the second suspicion tier. imgay is doing his fake cop act in an attempt to look less suspicious:

imgay posted:

I should be protected at night

So, if he is a cop, why investigate Rarity and not me? Investigating me would be far more understandable than investigating Rarity, a less suspicious poster. I admit that I was posting in a way that looked scummy.

imgay posted:

I copped rarity last night, they are town or Joe, unless my target got bussed. I copped ernie n1

Then, the argument on Day 3. I mentioned that most of my suspicions were on imgay, although I also suspected Rarity. Only then did imgay claim to have investigated Rarity on night 2. This was obviously an attempt to continue his fake cop act, and to make me look bad by claiming that Rarity, another person I accused, is Town. He couldn't claim that he investigated me and discovered that I was Scum, because any good cop would have brought that up in the first place - not only as a defense against accusations. So, we were suspicious of imgay on the second day and he started claiming to have a powerful town role, and only after we started planning to lynch him did he specifically claim to be a cop. My theory is that imgay is Scum falsely claiming to be a cop because he knows we all want to protect cops. Or maybe he's a lovely cop who did not choose the most suspicious target during Night 2 and didn't name his investigation targets until after he felt backed into a corner.

I know it's weird to make a case based on the fact that I have been viewed as one of the most suspicious people here. But I maintain that if imgay were a real cop he would have investigated me already, and that the double voting role is far more likely to be Town than to be a Scum role.

I'm also still somewhat suspicious of Rarity. It's possible that they're both scum, it's possible that imgay is scum and Rarity just made some inaccurate guesses, and it's possible that Rarity is scum and imgay is just a terrible cop.

Captain Foo posted:

i just re-read chamale who spent almost all of d1 railing against lumpen and calling him scum

Yeah, I admit I was very wrong about that. I just thought he was posting too much because when I've played this in person, it tends to be the Scum who talk the most.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

and your only two votes are bandwagons

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

wine in front of cop, eh chamale?

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

imgay posted:

Hey y'all how it be. I'm that wierd midget dude looking through the scope

imgay posted:

A cop seems likely with the miller flip, ##vote hiip

imgay posted:

I think 1-shot cop pretty weak claim unless they claiming joat, but its wierd since this is supposed to be a more vanillaish game. I've never defended opop, i just didn't read anything said by you guys voting him why he was so votey.

I think fv or lumpen scum and lowell or corazon scum. it just seems the way my gut is rolling.

Switched from TMM to Kash, both Town. I did the same thing though, so I really don't hold that point against you.

Hiip was SK so he wasn't someone you'd want sticking around anyways.

You weren't hot on voting for Scum Opop and didn't end up voting at all.

I don't buy your cop story. You generally seem to prefer joking and deflecting instead of analyzing.

Acebuckeye13
Nov 2, 2010


If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling
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Ultra Carp
Actually, here's what I think: imgay is Scum, and is only claiming to be Max to try and get the actual Max to counterclaim. If Max does reveal himself, that basically paints a huge target on their back to get killed by Scum, and the Town loses a powerful asset. If he doesn't, that allows imgay to try and lead Town astray-and notice that their first action was to try and protect Rarity, who as I've said is very likely Scum.

I'm still voting Rarity this round, but imgay is a very solid second.

Colonel Corazon
Feb 12, 2011

A faction armed to the teeth hardly seems friendly to me.

I recall Rarity and Chamale avoiding votes too. Gonna do a re-read and see.

I'd like to see the three making arguments for/against each other. :unsmigghh:

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
Hi peeps. I've missed tons, i'm town, i'll catch up with the thread when i'm less tried and less drunk. I'll start tomorrow morning and see how much I can crack through before work.

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Loel
Jun 4, 2012

"For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.



Acebuckeye13 posted:

Actually, looking back at it I'm thinking Rarity is a pretty strong Scum candidate.

-Everyone she's fingered so far has been Confirmed Town

-Tried to get people to back off voting Opop on D1 (Who was confirmed Scum)

-Hasn't posted since Kash got murdered

Obviously none of this is a guarantee, but were the vote held right now I think Rarity would be the strongest choice, given all other factors.

Captain Foo posted:

lowell, this is your only read in the entire game

Yeah, that’s fair. Day 2 was a bit of a shoo-in, as we had 6 votes when I was looking at the thread.

My reasons for suspecting Rarity: Started with a bunch of one liners, and then went hard for Lumpen (who was revealed to be town). Following that, they tended to be low content, skeptical of everyone, but not posting any effort posts. Instead, they simply went around asking people to give their own reads. Their second target was a town (who they didn’t give a read for, and showed little interest in it prior to their vote). And of course, they are now lurking. 'Ill post later, Im just tired and drunk right now.'

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