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Cynic Jester posted:So, uh, if you integrate a nation that has a colonial nation in the same region as one of your pre-existing ones, what happens to it? Does it get released? Doesn't it just become your colonial nation and you have two in the region?
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Sep 26, 2015 01:56
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Cynic Jester posted:So, uh, if you integrate a nation that has a colonial nation in the same region as one of your pre-existing ones, what happens to it? Does it get released? Nope you just get it as your colonial nation. It might actually be beneficial in the sense if they're both 10+ provinces you'll get an extra merchant out of it. However you will have colonial nations of different colors and maybe not pretty borders so you should correct that ASAP Fintilgin posted:Doesn't it just become your colonial nation and you have two in the region? yes
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Sep 26, 2015 01:58
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double nine posted:For gently caress's sake. Please, delete the diplomacy menu - enter = press yes. I was waiting for my truce to end, ready to press "yes to war". A few notifications popped up and I pressed enter to dismiss them - turns out enter doesn't go to the highest menu but prioritises the diplo menu. 5 stab down the toilet and a bunch of people pissed off at me. Thanks, UI. This is why I never, ever use hotkeys in EU4. A single misclick and you can ruin your game.
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Sep 26, 2015 01:59
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Cynic Jester posted:So, uh, if you integrate a nation that has a colonial nation in the same region as one of your pre-existing ones, what happens to it? Does it get released? You keep both CN's as vassals, both can give you a merchant if they have 10 cities but any provinces you settle yourself go to your original CN. skasion posted:Should religious ideas be my first pick as Byz if I'm going for Basileus? I kind of want to go maritime, mediocre as it is, so that I can compete with Venice for galleys without taking out fifteen loans. I've had amazing success with Influence ideas as Byz. With Influence ideas you can really easily take Bulgaria and 1-2 turkish minors as a vassal and feed them relentlessly. Once they get to be 60-100 development you integrate them, and if you take Humanism you get basically every culture from Serbian to Syrian as accepted. If not Humanism, Administrative and Quantity are great next ideas. Byz has modest military ideas in their NI set but you really need something that will accelerate your expansion as you have a wealth of targets to invade and the biggest limits for your growth are admin points, manpower, and time to annex subjects so these are the groups that help the most with that.
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Sep 26, 2015 02:01
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I went on a mod spree the other day and now my fleets don't work so well anymore. Specifically the mothball, upgrade outdated ships, automatic transport, and some other button are just missing. Also the army/navy template builder is gone. I deleted all the mods to no avail and then deleted all the local files and re-installed via steam. Where did my buttons go and how can I get them back? What kind of jerk makes a mod that just breaks conveniences?
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Sep 26, 2015 02:08
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Pellisworth posted:Nope you just get it as your colonial nation. It might actually be beneficial in the sense if they're both 10+ provinces you'll get an extra merchant out of it. Nuuooooo
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Sep 26, 2015 03:02
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Although your CNs can get CBs on each other. Part of me wants to make them fight, just to see what happens.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:09
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:Although your CNs can get CBs on each other. Part of me wants to make them fight, just to see what happens. They can't  Same overlord means they refuse to war.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:45
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Cynic Jester posted:They can't Can't believe Paradox keeps adding these unhistorical features.
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Sep 26, 2015 03:56
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I used to like Humanist but then I realized that having accepted cultures means you haven't blobbed hard enough
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Sep 26, 2015 04:04
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Yashichi posted:I used to like Humanist but then I realized that having accepted cultures means you haven't blobbed hard enough I dont know man, starting as Byz with humanist, if you get into India and get trading in silk and/or put up a few policies you can end up with Greek, Turkish, Syrian, Egyptian, Mashriqi, Persian, Khorsani, and maybe even Bedouin, Bulgarian, Serbian, and an Indian culture or two. That's a lot of development that you have at 0 rr, 0 autonomy, no penalties. Having an unaccepted cultures is roughly like having an autonomy floor of 33% so that turns into a major boon when you get it converted or accepted.
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Sep 26, 2015 04:19
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Yashichi posted:I used to like Humanist but then I realized that having accepted cultures means you haven't blobbed hard enough The goal should be to go Humanist as the Ottos and lose Greek as an accepted culture.
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Sep 26, 2015 04:19
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Yashichi posted:I used to like Humanist but then I realized that having accepted cultures means you haven't blobbed hard enough Looks like somebody has never tried to push the accepted culture limit.
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Sep 26, 2015 04:31
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If you blob out enormously and enact a policy that takes your accepted culture threshold to zero, do you get a screen full of CULTURE ACCEPTED messages? I dunno why but that makes me curious.
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Sep 26, 2015 04:37
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Humanism should get a +republican tradition bonus to nerf it and be thematic.
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Sep 26, 2015 05:10
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Node posted:If you blob out enormously and enact a policy that takes your accepted culture threshold to zero, do you get a screen full of CULTURE ACCEPTED messages? I dunno why but that makes me curious. Yes you do
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Sep 26, 2015 05:22
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Does the captial development change need to wait for the patch/expansion, instead of coming out say tomorrow?
Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 07:24
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kraken! posted:I went on a mod spree the other day and now my fleets don't work so well anymore. Specifically the mothball, upgrade outdated ships, automatic transport, and some other button are just missing. Also the army/navy template builder is gone. I deleted all the mods to no avail and then deleted all the local files and re-installed via steam. Sounds like you accidentally disabled Art of War in the launcher.
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Sep 26, 2015 07:39
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Wiz posted:Sounds like you accidentally disabled Art of War in the launcher. Having done this once, I can confirm it is highly confusing and also frustrating.
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Sep 26, 2015 08:08
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Question:  If I grab the Imereti provinces will the game consider me to be adjacent to Genoa for the sake of westernisation? The provinces seem to be in the same sea-zone (eastern black sea) but I'm not sure if it transfers over water. I'm persia by the way so that would cost some effort. edit: additionally, is there any way to get Muscovy to accept an alliance with me? I need some protection against the Ottomans (they outnumber me 2:1!) 
double nine fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 11:13
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double nine posted:Question: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Westernization#Requirements
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Sep 26, 2015 11:25
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Ok. So, I've played EU4 a fair amount but largely stopped playing after getting burnt out on crazy El Dorado randomized worlds. I picked up Common Sense and tried to start a new game but, I've got to be honest, the new mechanics for development are so daunting and radically different than the old system that I just sort of stared at the screen for a couple minutes and gave up. Can anyone give me a basic rundown of how I should approach spending monarch points on development, when they're better spent on technology and other things, and how exactly to best navigate the new fewer-forts based land combat system? It feels like they completely changed the basic guts of the game and now I'm completely lost. I don't mean a list of the features like you would get from the EUIV wiki or something, just something more like "you used to do this, now you need to do this."
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Sep 26, 2015 12:58
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prussian advisor posted:Ok. So, I've played EU4 a fair amount but largely stopped playing after getting burnt out on crazy El Dorado randomized worlds. I picked up Common Sense and tried to start a new game but, I've got to be honest, the new mechanics for development are so daunting and radically different than the old system that I just sort of stared at the screen for a couple minutes and gave up. Can anyone give me a basic rundown of how I should approach spending monarch points on development, when they're better spent on technology and other things, and how exactly to best navigate the new fewer-forts based land combat system? It feels like they completely changed the basic guts of the game and now I'm completely lost. You should spend points on development when you don't have anything better to spend it on, like coring, ideas, or technology that's not ahead of time. If you are finding your diplo power or military power hitting the 800s or so it sounds like a good time to develop a few of your provinces. It is basically supposed to be a sink for getting near the maximum point limit, like policies. Of course sometimes you want to develop a province anyway; for instance, you want to get your goldmines to 10 production. You can also push a culture to over the accepted threshold since that goes by development as well.
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Sep 26, 2015 13:29
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prussian advisor posted:Ok. So, I've played EU4 a fair amount but largely stopped playing after getting burnt out on crazy El Dorado randomized worlds. I picked up Common Sense and tried to start a new game but, I've got to be honest, the new mechanics for development are so daunting and radically different than the old system that I just sort of stared at the screen for a couple minutes and gave up. Can anyone give me a basic rundown of how I should approach spending monarch points on development, when they're better spent on technology and other things, and how exactly to best navigate the new fewer-forts based land combat system? It feels like they completely changed the basic guts of the game and now I'm completely lost. Spend monarch points on development only 1) If you have literally nowhere else to put them and are about to hit your cap (999 for western nations, more for others) 2) If you have a good deal of -dev cost ideas, buildings (University), or policies, and are already ahead on tech, than using Mil points in provinces with garrisons or barracks, and Dip points in provinces that produce high value trade goods (Admin points in general get you less return on your investment it seems, but are still a nice boost to gold if you really have nowhere else to burn your points.) Prioritize on developing Farmlands and Grassland terrains as they have the cheapest cost of upgrades, and stay away from Swamps or Mountains unless you have no other choice, or they produce a very valuable trade good (Cocoa/Silk/Tea/Chinaware) Admin and Mil development is 33% less useful in province that are not an accepted culture than one that is, and 75% less useful in overseas territories. I do think dip is just as good though I may be wrong. In a few very rare cases you'll notice that a culture is only 1-2% away from becoming accepted and it is definitely worthwhile to develop them until they're accepted. 420 Gank Mid fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 13:43
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I find Admin development usually gets a better return of investment than production developement, oddly enough. Admin usually comes out at .08 to .12 ducats a month, development at .06.
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Sep 26, 2015 14:33
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Another Person posted:I find Admin development usually gets a better return of investment than production developement, oddly enough. Admin usually comes out at .08 to .12 ducats a month, development at .06. Are you counting the bonus you get to trade and production efficiency through tech and ideas, both of which benefit the diplo development of provinces more than the few +tax efficiency ideas help admin dev? In my sun god campaign every point of DIP dev that I put into a cocoa province would give me ~.20 ducats
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Sep 26, 2015 14:40
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420 Gank Mid posted:Are you counting the bonus you get to trade and production efficiency through tech and ideas, both of which benefit the diplo development of provinces more than the few +tax efficiency ideas help admin dev? I thought any type of development boosts the trade power in that province? I haven't looked through all of the wiki or tested it thoroughly, but I usually find that admin development usually comes out on top for most gov types. At the start of the game admin dev is definitely better than dip dev, for sure to say the least. e; oh yeah, certain trade items will definitely come out on top of admin. most of the european ones do not, like grain, salt, fish, etc, and will not for a long time. If you are in the new world, then dip dev will probably come out on top (especially in gold rich south america), but in Europe most of those trade goods are pretty crap for development. e2; basically, don't dip develop grain, wine, wool, fish (especially after grand banks event), naval supplies, slaves (worst investment), which is most of europe. I'd throw copper in too, since it gets some nerfs later in the game. Naval gets a boost quite late into the game, so if you reckon you will still be going at that point, feel free to develop that, but it is a very long term investment and the return is questionable. Invest in gold (up to 10 dip dev), coccoa, sugar, chinaware (which does get nerfed but is good most of the game), fur, cloth, silk, spice, coffee. Fur is especially good. e3: forgot tobacco, one of the best. develop gently caress out of that and coffee if you have it. Ivory is pretty solid too, but the cost of developing Africa is not worth it. Too dry or tropical. Another Person fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 14:43
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Hurrah, I finally pulled of This is Persia!.  I did it the somewhat gamey (although not entirely simple) way of forming Persia as the Timurids, which involved a couple of really shaky decades where I was trying to not be eaten by rebels while reforming my government and stopping the Ottomans from getting to Egypt so they didn't become too powerful. But once I reformed, formed Persia and started eating the Levant and Mesopotamia they weren't that tough, especially since the Commonwealth helped me out. After that it was smooth sailing until I only needed Corfu, which unfortunately Spain had snatched since the Ottomans were too weak to resist them at this point. And they were allied to France and the Commonwealth so I figured that I would have to start one helluva fight for that tiny province. But in my genius I saw that I could attack the Commonwealth and draw Spain in the war while also keeping France out since they saw the Commonwealth as rivals. Thus I started to build a crazy strong navy so I could keep Spain off me for some months until I managed to get to Corfu. I think I lost around 200 ships all in all but I succeeded in peacing out with Corfu. Really really fun achievement, I really recommend it.
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Sep 26, 2015 15:45
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Wiz posted:Sounds like you accidentally disabled Art of War in the launcher. Thanks! I probably should have checked that before uninstalling.
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Sep 26, 2015 17:33
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Another Person posted:I thought any type of development boosts the trade power in that province? I haven't looked through all of the wiki or tested it thoroughly, but I usually find that admin development usually comes out on top for most gov types. At the start of the game admin dev is definitely better than dip dev, for sure to say the least. Production gives you +0.2 Goods Produced, which at 100% Production and Trade Efficiency means a potential 0.2 * 2 * Price yearly income. Obviously that's an "ideal" late-game situation and PE and TE scale with tech from 10% at the start to 100% at max tech. Admin will give you better returns early when your PE and TE are low. I did some number crunching and obviously it depends on several factors but roughly speaking I think the break point is the mid-late 1500s for 3 and 4-value goods and mid-late 1600s for 2-value goods. Edit: as in, production will give better returns (assuming you can capture most of the trade value) than tax development starting ~1550-1600 for more valuable goods and ~1650-1700 for the cheapest goods. If you're a fringe case like the Papal States who gets enormous tax modifiers (+25% from Devotion, +20% from NIs) then tax is better than 2-value goods right through the end of the game. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 17:49
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420 Gank Mid posted:In my sun god campaign every point of DIP dev that I put into a cocoa province would give me ~.20 ducats Every point or every upgrade? Because ~50 monarch points is not really worth 2.4 ducats per year. In fact I would happily take the opposite trade if offered.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:31
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PittTheElder posted:Ah, then I don't know. I've never cared enough to figure out why you can sometimes core provinces, and sometimes not. Even when I have a direct land connection I sometimes still have to wait and core in a line. Part of the confusing thing is that it's bugged at present. Normally, coring seems to follow something like colonization rules - only provinces adjacent to cored provinces, or coastal & within colonial range of cored provinces. But: (1) Take an inland 'line' or 'snake' of provinces connected to your cores at one end. (2) Observe that you can only core the province next to your existing cores. (3) Save and load. (4) Observe that you can core all of the provinces. Not sure which is the intended behavior.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:48
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PittTheElder posted:Every point or every upgrade? Because ~50 monarch points is not really worth 2.4 ducats per year. In fact I would happily take the opposite trade if offered. So 2.4 gold * 390ish years is what 850ish for 50 of the worst monarch points. Hmm i started this with the intent to prove you wrong but in many games i would take that too.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:54
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And that's if you improved that province in 1444, the trade off only gets worse as time goes by. Development is for supercharging your gold mines and dumping surplus points.
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Sep 26, 2015 18:58
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PittTheElder posted:Every point or every upgrade? Because ~50 monarch points is not really worth 2.4 ducats per year. In fact I would happily take the opposite trade if offered. You're forgetting Workshops/Custom Houses, which add +50%/+100% to your production efficiency, and also the fact that production efficiency increases over time. Stack goods produced buffs, and you're going to make making a whole lot more than .20 extra ducats for every point of production
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Sep 26, 2015 19:08
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Unless you're doing a 1 province run, province development isn't very good, with the notable exceptions of gold mines, surplus point drain and to a lesser extent, upping trade on a province stacked with modifiers in a node with competition(though murdering the poo poo out of the other party will always be a better option).
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Sep 26, 2015 19:47
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Yeah, I just don't really feel like the development mechanism really works very well. It's a nice idea, letting you go tall rather than wide, but it's not really all that fun; would you rather fight a war or sit on speed five and hit a button every so often? And aside from gold provinces, you never really feel like you're accomplishing much or making your country better, it doesn't feel like one point or even ten points has much of an impact at all. It also uses the most important resources in the game which are already stretched pretty thin. I think it might work better if you would generate development points to represent population increases, and could spend these where you wanted (possibly with an additional gold cost for higher developed areas). Every province would generate dev points based on its total development, so that you'd get more points per development for smaller regions than you would from larger urban centers. Add modifiers for being at war/peace, sieges/looting in the area, producing/trading in food items, etc. This would let there be events for new crops from the New World, since those had a pretty major impact on Europe, which isn't really represented in the game. Along with a system like this, you could keep track of how much food is available, so that X goods produced of fish or grain would support X development; new farming technologies would increase it, etc. Going over your support limit would cause your development points to decrease, and if they got to 0 you'd lose a development somewhere and get half of the points back. Do a bit of a different system for trading food, and you'd have some new, interesting mechanics that would be more fun to play with than what we have now, and it would model population growth a lot better; it's kinda silly that a large empire is going to see almost no growth on a province to province basis during one of the periods where Europe saw huge population booms.
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Sep 26, 2015 20:08
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Pellisworth posted:Production gives you +0.2 Goods Produced, which at 100% Production and Trade Efficiency means a potential 0.2 * 2 * Price yearly income. Obviously that's an "ideal" late-game situation and PE and TE scale with tech from 10% at the start to 100% at max tech. That's interesting, is anyone factoring in the wrong religion / wrong culture stuff in the discussion? That's one of the reasons I like production when expanding, you can slap a workshop or manufactory in any province and it's fully effective. As in, production does not get a 33% penalty for wrong religion / wrong culture, so I feel that makes enemy production provinces great targets.
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Sep 26, 2015 20:48
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Rakthar posted:That's interesting, is anyone factoring in the wrong religion / wrong culture stuff in the discussion? That's one of the reasons I like production when expanding, you can slap a workshop or manufactory in any province and it's fully effective. Nah the numbers I posted require a lot of assumptions and I didn't factor in culture. You are correct that production and trade income aren't affected by culture, production development is pretty much the best overall. Generally it will give you the best income return, it uses the least vital monarch point type, and isn't affected by culture. I think development is a better way of representing provincial economies than the old base tax/manpower system. It's not all that useful as a mechanic for the player though as the return on investment is really bad. It's good as a point dump though. Somewhat amusing how all the OPMs and minors quickly end up with 30-40 development provinces because they never expand. I like the idea of having development cost something other than monarch points and maybe even being its own system.
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Sep 26, 2015 21:05
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I bring offerings for the sperg gods ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED Edit: note if you are trying to factor in Production and Trade Efficiency bonuses from NIs and buildings, this table is showing PE and TE combined. So if you wondered how much adding a Workshop for +50% PE would change things, count that as +25% on the table. I can convert that to a yearly instead of monthly income if someone really wants. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 26, 2015 |
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Sep 26, 2015 21:24
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