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Gyra_Solune posted:Logos just reached the point where it's clearly going to stop loving around and let stuff get real Suddenly, everyone dies of heatstroke in summertime because they have no idea what heat feels like.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:10
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dogsicle posted:I wish there was a good model of the basic Guymelef design...they're really cool. sadly for some inexplicable reason japan is actively trying to forget escaflowne happened it didn't even show up on the boxart of the only srw it ever appeared in ;.;
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Sep 27, 2015 04:11
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It got a Bluray release so they couldn't have totally forgotten about it.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:12
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Srice posted:Suddenly, everyone dies of heatstroke in summertime because they have no idea what heat feels like. I mean it was more like, people falling to their deaths because the concept of stairs ceased to exist, that was hilarious
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Sep 27, 2015 04:13
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dogsicle posted:I wish there was a good model of the basic Guymelef design...they're really cool. Was there a basic Guymelef, or are you talking about the Melefs, the non-superpowered mooks? I don't really remember any non-unique Guymelefs other than the empire's ones that could turn invisible and had those floating alt forms. The whole point of Guymelefs was that they were the Overmen to the Melef Silhouette Engines. I get the feeling that using King Gainer as an example is a poor idea. But you should all go watch Overman King Gainer right now if you haven't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc0rW5fsfxA
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Sep 27, 2015 04:13
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Reds posted:Was there a basic Guymelef, or are you talking about the Melefs, the non-superpowered mooks? apparently I'm thinking of the Alseides (generic Zaibach melefs) though I don't remember hearing that name in the show. certainly not as often as Guymelef/Melef got thrown around.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:17
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Escaflowne is a really cool anime. That's all I got
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Sep 27, 2015 04:18
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Actually I lied:muike posted:Yes I'd say this is a major problem with the genre (and not just this genre, anything else that falls into the kind of genre/literary divide that i mentioned before) and it's almost historical. It's strange when even shows that are, nominally, not toy commercials, still find themselves hitting the same pitholes that the Literal Actual Toy Commercials did, and it's because it's what the creators and producers grew up with and it's like a negative feedback loop. A rock being run smooth of all its intricacies and differentiating qualities by a river current. Something I really appreciate about Yasuhiro Imagawa is that even though all of his mecha anime are adaptations of old material, he always takes them in a new direction rather than retell old stories. He turned Tetsujin-28, the original simple punching robot, into a post war thriller with complex and layered themes. He turned Mazinger into whatever Shin Mazinger is. He's a really next level guy and I hope he gets to direct an anime adaptation of his titty manga someday.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:21
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imagawa made a titty manga? news to me.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:22
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muike posted:imagawa made a titty manga? news to me. 
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Sep 27, 2015 04:26
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That looks uncomfortable but since it's apparently called Bondage Choir I assume that's the point.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:29
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boom boom boom posted:Dai Guard got a upgrade towards the end that let it turn into three Getter style planes Actually it turns into two trucks and a plane, none of which are armed.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:29
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muike posted:imagawa made a titty manga? news to me. At this point it's easier to accept that every artist did one at some point.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:34
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Especially anyone who would adapt a Go Nagai work.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:36
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would I be remiss in assuming G-Reco was pretty much Overman King Gundam in terms of what to expect from Gainer
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Sep 27, 2015 05:00
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Gyra_Solune posted:would I be remiss in assuming G-Reco was pretty much Overman King Gundam in terms of what to expect from Gainer nope, that's pretty much right. Tone wise, at least. OKG only really throws you into the deep end at the beginning tho, after the first couple episodes you don't have to be constantly paying attenntion to catch exposition and stuff like you do for G-Reco.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:03
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boom boom boom posted:nope, that's pretty much right. Tone wise, at least. OKG only really throws you into the deep end at the beginning tho, after the first couple episodes you don't have to be constantly paying attenntion to catch exposition and stuff like you do for G-Reco. Mm, yeah reading the current SRW Z lp gave me a reasonable idea of what's going on in King Gainer. First half is people wanting to migrate but being stopped by bigwig railroad corporatist goons, then suddenly by the end it's dealing with a big old doomsday ancient bio-weapon /thing/. Can't imagine it has nearly the same feeling of having to hurry through all its plot elements like Reco did. I do intend to watch it sooner rather than later, so.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:16
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Overman King Gainer isn't anything like G-Reco though.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:32
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Reds posted:Overman King Gainer isn't anything like G-Reco though. Not remotely. Gainer is more akin to a slice of life mecha nomad anime that has occasional serious stuff, while G-Reco tries to do the same except it's all plot and they really need another 10 episodes.
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Sep 27, 2015 06:01
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Gyra_Solune posted:you can't really count Gundam because basically all of those mechs ever are designed primarily to work in space and the legs are some scientific thing for inertial control that just happen to work okay at stomping about on land I don't think this is a fair criticism to apply to 08th MS Team since 1) it's one of the shows that uses its environment really, really well and 2) all the units are specifically tuned for ground combat and would not, in fact, work in space
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Sep 27, 2015 09:18
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Still bitter about that from federation vs zeon, okay the ground wars over time to never use a ground combat gundam again, hope you like GMs!
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Sep 27, 2015 11:53
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I figure this is as good a place as any to talk about Dragon's Heaven, an OVA from 1988 directed by Makoto Kobayashi. Kobayashi is most famous for his mecha designs for stuff like Gundam, and one of the robots in this OVA looks exactly like the Baund Doc. The story is about a robot called Shaian whose human pilot is killed and decides to take a nap. He wakes up after a thousand years when a girl named Ikuru approaches his vicinity and finds out his rival from a thousand years ago is still alive. It's pretty short, with the first couple minutes being person-sized models of the two main mechs being shot dramatically, and the last fifteen minutes being a making-of of the two models. The reason I suggest it though is that it looks loving rad:     
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Sep 27, 2015 13:11
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Kobayashi loves the Bound Doc and has been doing stuff with it forever and ever now.
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Sep 27, 2015 13:12
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Parallax posted:I figure this is as good a place as any to talk about Dragon's Heaven, an OVA from 1988 directed by Makoto Kobayashi. Kobayashi is most famous for his mecha designs for stuff like Gundam, and one of the robots in this OVA looks exactly like the Baund Doc. The story is about a robot called Shaian whose human pilot is killed and decides to take a nap. He wakes up after a thousand years when a girl named Ikuru approaches his vicinity and finds out his rival from a thousand years ago is still alive. It's pretty short, with the first couple minutes being person-sized models of the two main mechs being shot dramatically, and the last fifteen minutes being a making-of of the two models. The reason I suggest it though is that it looks loving rad: Dragon's Heaven was one of those ovas I was thinking of for robots that actually use their legs and I'm surprised it was even mentioned It was pretty good and I quite liked the music However the best thing about it is in the credits one of the guys flips off the camera 
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Sep 27, 2015 19:15
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GorfZaplen posted:For example, the scene in Dougram where a father and son on opposing sides of the war come together and affirm their love for one another as human beings is way more important to demonstrating the themes of the show than any of the battles, save one. I always found it interesting that Takahashi has said that he's always hated robots and includes them primarily because "they sell". Tomino says similar things, but I think Tomino operates on a level of materialism that that never appealed to Takahashi aesthetically. There's always a massive amount of commodity fetishism, specifically robots and technology and the neat things they can do, in mecha anime, not to mention sci-fi, and I think Takahashi rejects it on some level while Tomino is disgusted by it but at the same time is fascinated. It's sort of like this, how can something be specifically anti-war if the action and drama of the fights have all this wiz bang techno wonderment? I think Tomino gets around it by being so pessimistic and bitter politically, while Takahashi has his robots being really unglamorous and frail. Gasaraki is a really interesting show in that the TAs exist in this sort of Gulf War mentality where Stealth and "Smart" Bombs actually work the way the US Military says they do as amazing wonder weapons. Something you should feel pride in as well as...pleasure, but the show also has it all based around meddling with magic and combat drugs to even make it work on some level, which undermines it quite nicely. I dunno, as I've grown older, I've just found that robots aren't a romance anymore, but a veneer for something I find very troubling about western society. Especially with what I know about systems like the LCS and F-35... TNG fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 23:20
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I don't think Tomino hates robots per se, but he dislikes how the inherent reliance on merchandising results in sponsors meddling in production. In particular, Sunrise getting bought up by Bandai was a big blow for him and, if I'm recalling correctly, a major source of the angst that permeates Victory.
Motto fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 03:59
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Motto posted:I don't think Tomino hates robots per se, but he dislikes how the inherent reliance on merchandising results in sponsors meddling in production. In particular, Sunrise getting bought up by Bandai was a big blow for him and, if I'm recalling correctly, a major source of the angst that permeates Victory. Victory is the result of both being depressed and being very angry. It's why he tells people to not buy Victory in the Victory DVDs, he probably isn't happy with all of the negativity put into Victory Gundam considering the more optimistic bent of his future shows.
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Sep 28, 2015 04:15
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He definitely isn't. When he voices criticism of shows like Eva and AoT it sounds less like his problems with those works specifically and more warning others away from what he sees as repeating his own mistakes as a creator.
Motto fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 28, 2015 04:23
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But the deconstruction
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Sep 28, 2015 04:48
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TNG posted:I always found it interesting that Takahashi has said that he's always hated robots and includes them primarily because "they sell". Tomino says similar things, but I think Tomino operates on a level of materialism that that never appealed to Takahashi aesthetically. There's always a massive amount of commodity fetishism, specifically robots and technology and the neat things they can do, in mecha anime, not to mention sci-fi, and I think Takahashi rejects it on some level while Tomino is disgusted by it but at the same time is fascinated. It's sort of like this, how can something be specifically anti-war if the action and drama of the fights have all this wiz bang techno wonderment? I think Tomino gets around it by being so pessimistic and bitter politically, while Takahashi has his robots being really unglamorous and frail. man Takahashi has made some nice shows, but he sounds like a major douche at the same time, also I'm not the only person who's completely sick and tired of "Anti-War" messages being included in Mecha series right?
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Sep 28, 2015 10:31
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I'm pretty ok with it.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:34
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Most, if not all, mecha shows are about conflict and when your stance can be either war is good, bad or poo poo happens, I'd rather they went with it being bad.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:43
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Also, Japan has its reasons for producing more anti-war media than the average country.
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Sep 28, 2015 14:46
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I dunno at this point while I acknowledge putting war in a positive spin is near impossible these days, I wouldn't mind some Mecha stuff that treated it in a purely neutral manner, like it's not a good thing(although good things can come of it), but not treating it as an absolute evil either cause that is ridiculously oversimplifying things
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Sep 28, 2015 18:26
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I don't think its possible to be neutral about war for very obvious reasons. What is the neutral response to the Iraq war? And what is the neutral response to specific battles or actions within those wars - Hiroshima, for instance? The blanket declaration that war is bad and should be avoided all the time for ever is simplistic but way less easy to work around with your own specific ideological bias. Once you accept some actions in war are rationally justifiable, you very quickly can justify almost anything. There was a time when almost every American had an internalised vision of the WWII-era Japanese as vicious, never-surrendering, need-to-be-shut-down-by-nukes kamikaze nightmare-people when, in reality, there is evidence they were planning - or even OPENLY ATTEMPTING TO - to surrender before the bombs were dropped. Anyone trying to shift the goalposts in terms of war's 'badness' inevitably has some very hosed-up ideas of what constitutes an objectively-correct action. Peeps are right in that lots of mecha, especially lots of Tomino's works, don't actually use the robots as much other than advanced war-tech and could even be replaced by tanks or guns. Instead the shows function as an abstraction of war onto an alternative playing field where one doesn't have to think about it in terms of an actual war. All of a sudden, you might even have people condemning the sci-fi version of an atrocity their own country committed irl and would normally have defended. There's a saying that all sci-fi stories about the future are really about the present and finding an alternative way of dealing with it. So even 'real robot' shows have a function. Again, especially Tomino's, considering all the bizarre dream-sequences and psychic-magic stuff in there. Also in response to someone's 'if the machines are cool and the fighting is fun, how can they have their cake and eat it by saying war is bad?' - I'd suggest the same answer that I'd give about Apocalypse Now's attitude to war, where it's occasionally empowering and fun and rock music plays while you fire your machine gun, but in the end you're slitting a man up like a cow while he screams about the horror of human existence. The point is that violence is fun, and bad. Humans are ultimately in a war with their own self-destructive nature, and that's why Tomino bets his chips almost entirely on humans 'becoming' a superior species that does not need to wage war against itself. He's not talking about literal biological evolution there. poo poo I wrote too many words again. Do-over: There are some bad wars happening and it is bad. Can we do peace now instead? Cool.
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Sep 28, 2015 19:27
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i think there's a difference between "i want a mecha anime that glorifies war" and "i want an anime with giant robots that also is about something other than how awful war is" i mean it's been a while, but i can't remember a terribly strong anti war message in, say, aquarion evol. does patlabor have a strong anti-war message?
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Sep 28, 2015 20:51
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Hbomberguy posted:
I prefer Full Metal Jacket's scene where Joker asks a helicopter gunner who's randomly shooting at the North Vietnamese while maniacally laughing, "How can you shoot women and children?", to which the gunner replies, "Easy, you don't lead em so much." It's fun, if you're a psychopath. The problem with fictionalized violence, and let's focus in on military sci fi, is that a lot of people have trouble making the connection that what is happening is actually deplorable. I used to be one of those awful nerds that followed the development program of the F-22 and thought how cool it would be if it fought some MiG-29s and actually cared about the tactical realism of Space Marine X and how he could fight 100 of Stormtrooper Y and come out unscathed because of his awesome technology. Besides being incredibly stupid, it also is an attitude that prevails a lot of examples of military speculative fiction, anime included: this amazing piece of technology is something you can feel pride and pleasure in because it's so good at what it does, killing people and destroying lots of things. 0080 is a fine counterexample. The action in that is violent, quick, unsatisfying, and awful. That all the new wizbang designs aren't just cool advertisements, but are instead things that get people killed in terrible and pointless ways. I like Tomino a lot as a writer, thinker, and director, but he's also drat good at making engaging and entertaining scenes of action. I'm conflicted about the man ultimately, since I like his work and what it has to say but he's also operating under the sphere of corporate militarism endorsement that underpins a lot of fiction, especially military science fiction. What is the most futuristic element of his work are not mobile suits but, as you said, the Newtypes. I think what I'm interested most in, as an extension of that, is fighting back against the narrative that weapons are in any way cool or desirable. Mecha has a very difficult time with this, since they have to sell a product to get made, and that product in reinforced by American military hegemony which very much has its tendrils sunk deep into the real robot genre. Also, dispelling the notion that techno futurism is any way going to save or benefit humanity. Elon Musk and his cars only rich people can afford and exploding rocket company aren't going to save us. Apple and other Silicon Valley firms aren't going to make the world closer or better. They're all in this mode of corporate expansion where indecency and atrocity is an abstraction as long as it's far away, and a war can be justified if it hits the right social barometer. If we actually want to be futuristic prople and engage with an interesting vision of tomorrow, why do we allow old indignities and crudeness a pass? I think being critical is the first step there.
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Sep 28, 2015 21:06
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ninjewtsu posted:i think there's a difference between "i want a mecha anime that glorifies war" and "i want an anime with giant robots that also is about something other than how awful war is" Patlabor 2 delved into that territory, and delved into it hard. The whole film was reportedly inspired by Ito and Oshii's opposition to overseas deployment of the JSDF.
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Sep 28, 2015 21:07
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I also found it funny how in WXIII, Noa says she's just not really into mecha anymore, and how that got SO many people angry. She's no longer one of us, guys!
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Sep 28, 2015 21:16
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Mecha is a genre at war with itself. The modern mecha story as we know it was born with Mazinger Z, and the primary theme of that was how Kouji could become a God or a Devil with Mazinger's power, but it is up to him to decide how to use said power. Not only does Mazinger's name come from Majin (demon) also the Mazinger itself doesn't have the face of a friendly neighborhood superhero. Mecha fiction is fundamentally aware of its nature as a contradiction that technology is rad and weapons that make big explosions are cool but they can be also pretty awful if you don't use them responsibly. I like it because it is aware that humans are creatures of contradiction and that you can't really apply a black or white morality to human nature. My problem with mecha is that sometimes it fetishizes technology in a way that is almost spiritual, as if all we had to do is put our faith in technology progressing fast enough that it will somehow solve all of the world's problems. World hunger? Global warming? AIDS? Just throw enough nanobots at things and everything will solve itself! No, we don't need social reforms everything is fine just the way it is now let me tell you about the singularity. Fundamentally, I probably keep coming back to mecha because I like action and I like speculative fiction and mecha often is a hybrid of both. Then again sometimes it has none of that and it is just a fun romp about saving the world from the evil aliens that look suspiciously like people and that is fine too.
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Sep 28, 2015 22:15
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