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If you're some indie wrestler I've never seen before, I don't know what your official finisher is anyway.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:24
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there was that one NXT show with the Women's Fatal 4-Way and Owens vs. Zayn that both ended with really neat and unique finishes that made sense for the stories they told and it was very memorable, enough so that I'm remembering it right now if the finish makes sense for the story that the wrestlers tell it doesn't matter what the finish is as long as that story is well-written
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Sep 29, 2015 19:25
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P-Mack posted:If you're some indie wrestler I've never seen before, I don't know what your official finisher is anyway.
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Sep 29, 2015 19:31
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Has anyone ever done a super perfectplex?
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Sep 29, 2015 19:39
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Halloween Jack posted:if I was involved in running an indie promotion I would actively discourage guys from doing a dozen YouTube Drivers in every match. In a way, you are! Keep in mind I am taking advice on board and really considering what you guys have to say. To whit: as a bunch of nerds who follow all the behind the scenes chatter and whatnot, how would you feel about a wrestling promotion that gave all its workers an equal share of the gate + merchandise? My thought is that it doesn't make any sense to pay a champ more that the mid card since the only reason the Brooklyn brawler isn't 16time wwe champ is booking. (A but of an exaggeration there, but you see what I'm getting at)
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Sep 29, 2015 20:16
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Die Laughing posted:Has anyone ever done a super perfectplex?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:23
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Trollologist posted:
This makes very little sense and, respectfully, makes me wonder if you really should be running a wrestling business. Workers should be compensated for the revenue they generate for the company. What money was the Brooklyn Brawler generating for WWF in 1988? What money was Macho Man, World Champion, generating? Paying them the same even though one is the centerpiece of your organization and the other is a jobber having two minute matches is only going to have the effect of losing you Macho Man. It's also a ridiculous idea because no, actually, booking wasn't the only thing keeping the Brawler from being a 16 time champion. Sure , they could have done it in theory, but there are tangible skills like work rate and promo ability as well as intangible traits like charisma and image that a champion requires and a jobber doesn't. Brawler didn't have those. A champion Brawler would have bankrupted the company. If you don't understand this, should you be running a wrestling promotion when your other major idea is to make it more like 2000 WCW? E: more specifically with merch, WWF is moving 100,000 Hulkamania shirts because the fans love and admire Hulk Hogan. Why should Brawler get that money? The disparity will obviously be much less on a random indie with mostly no-names, but if you're ever going to be profitable some limited number of your wrestlers will be the draws of the company. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for profit sharing plans and fair payment and the current model in mainstream wrestling is absurdly exploitative of the workers. But suggesting that no one wrestler has more value than any other and thus they should all be compensated the same is also exploitative of the men and women who will end up doing the most work in your company. Pinstripe Hourglass fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 20:30
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Are they having you invest money in this wrestling company Trollologist?
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Sep 29, 2015 20:31
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Trollologist posted:In a way, you are! Keep in mind I am taking advice on board and really considering what you guys have to say. Don't change the wage scale, but give them health insurance You'll be loved by everyone in that locker room
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Sep 29, 2015 20:53
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Trollologist posted:My thought is that it doesn't make any sense to pay a champ more that the mid card since the only reason the Brooklyn brawler isn't 16time wwe champ is booking. (A but of an exaggeration there, but you see what I'm getting at) That's not a good idea because you'll either never get any body with any name value if they'll be making the same as Portland Nobody #3 or alienate your regulars if you bend the rules and bring in a name worker for more money and let them sell their own stuff. Smoking Crow posted:Don't change the wage scale, but give them health insurance "Local Portland Wrestling Company Goes Bankrupt Day After Implementing Health Coverage"
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Sep 29, 2015 20:57
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Smoking Crow posted:Don't change the wage scale, but give them health insurance "Yeah, I'm here to inquire about a health plan for my pro wrestling business." 
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Sep 29, 2015 21:00
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John Quixote posted:Yeah, definitely do that. A finisher itself can be a means to tell a story, too. One of my favorite finishes is from an old match I'm remembering between Kenta Kobashi (I think?) and a guy named Gran Naniwa whose gimmick is that he comes out with huge crab claws and acts like a crab. Kobashi beat him with a fisherman buster. Hahaha that's great. Was there a match where Kobashi fought somebody with a gimmick involving flammable materials where he used one of his half dozen finishers whose names started with the word "burning" (burning hammer, burning lariat, burning sword...)? Career invalidating missed opportunity if not. 
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Sep 29, 2015 21:11
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Trollologist posted:I've been given a pretty great opportunity with a local indy fed that's been running for a number of years in the portland area. It's not PNW by any chance, is it? Wrestling-as-theater could be an interesting take on it. The thing you'd have to do though is treat it like theater first and foremost. Instead of characters being "Me with the volume turned up to 11", come up with wholly original characters not based on the actual person. Of course this requires acting skills, and they can put their own spin on it, but you'd have a casting process for these characters that wrestlers would audition for like it were actual theater, rather than telling them to come up with their own or just being Firstname Lastname who really wants the belt! When laying out a match, work out the blocking for certain elements of stories, use props and set pieces, etc. Treat it like you're putting on a play every week and then the actual matches just end up being extended fight choreography. This may be more heavily scripted than you'd want, but you can always leave room for improvisation or script it with general bullet points. Pinstripe Hourglass posted:tangible skills like work rate You lost me there.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:51
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^^^^^THIS GUY loving GETS IT^^^^^  And no, I'll be more forthcoming when I have a website/merch/online shows (for you guys to watch) to talk about. If you're a Portland area goon and are interested in live events, PM me and I'll keep you in the loop about local goings on.Thanks again for any and all feedback! Think of what I'm doing as focus-grouping. I have my own personal opinions on what I think needs to be fixed or changed in the industry, but if those are lovely ideas and you, the most level-headed and knowledgeable wrestling fans I know of hate them, them I'm not going to do it. Pinstripe Hourglass posted:Workers should be compensated for the revenue they generate for the company. What money was the Brooklyn Brawler generating for WWF in 1988? What money was Macho Man, World Champion, generating? Paying them the same even though one is the centerpiece of your organization and the other is a jobber having two minute matches is only going to have the effect of losing you Macho Man.  Does that mean that Jeff Hardy wasn't really a "Draw"? Or that your popularity only matters anymore if you're booked to be in the WWE main event? Did WWE Make Jeff a star or did Jeff put butts in seats? Well to examine that you'd only need to see what impact Jeff's arrival in TNA had on the ratings there. and I don't even need to post any charts or evidence about TNA's ratings because we all know that story. Just food for thought on the nature of wrestling today and the concept of what a "Draw" is anymore. Pinstripe Hourglass posted:It's also a ridiculous idea because no, actually, booking wasn't the only thing keeping the Brawler from being a 16 time champion. Sure , they could have done it in theory, but there are tangible skills like work rate and promo ability as well as intangible traits like charisma and image that a champion requires and a jobber doesn't. Brawler didn't have those. A champion Brawler would have bankrupted the company. Fair enough. But the talent pool just about everywhere is so glutted now a days it's pretty easy to just shitcan guys that aren't any good and replace them with someone better. (granted our budget doesn't allow for us to do that right now, but if we can grow, who knows where the limit is) Pinstripe Hourglass posted:If you don't understand this, should you be running a wrestling promotion when your other major idea is to make it more like 2000 WCW? I'd like to clear up any misunderstanding about that right now. I had no intention of doing any "worked shoot" garbage. I just wanted to treat wrestlers like actors. if you're promoting the show, you're Dwayne Johnson. If the cameras are rolling and you're on stage/in the ring, you're The Rock. Just like every actor in every play,show, and movie everywhere in the world. Pinstripe Hourglass posted:E: more specifically with merch, WWF is moving 100,000 Hulkamania shirts because the fans love and admire Hulk Hogan. Why should Brawler get that money? The disparity will obviously be much less on a random indie with mostly no-names, but if you're ever going to be profitable some limited number of your wrestlers will be the draws of the company. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for profit sharing plans and fair payment and the current model in mainstream wrestling is absurdly exploitative of the workers. But suggesting that no one wrestler has more value than any other and thus they should all be compensated the same is also exploitative of the men and women who will end up doing the most work in your company. What I'm hearing is that there is a level of working on the pay scale that needs to happen, but maybe not full equality. Fair enough, I'll mull that over and try to find a happy medium... Trollologist fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 21:54
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Name a wrestler Sid and give him a squeegee.
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Sep 29, 2015 21:59
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ayn rand hand job posted:Name a wrestler Sid and give him a squeegee. did he forget his scissors?
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Sep 29, 2015 22:03
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sticklefifer posted:It's not PNW by any chance, is it? if you're gonna do burlesque, do burlesque.
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Sep 29, 2015 22:14
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2 questions 1. what does that poo poo mean on this shirt http://www.prowrestlingtees.com/biff.html e. i have google translated it and it means "rules" 2. does anybody know a pwt discount code theyd like to share. thanks
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Sep 29, 2015 22:25
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just kidding, i have one more question. can anybody recommend a book about the history of puro? i kickstarted that lion mark book but i'm looking more for AJPW history
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Sep 29, 2015 22:32
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I listened to the Austin podcast with Jake Roberts, and I realize I've never seen one of his matches. What's a good Jake The Snake Roberts match to watch?
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Sep 29, 2015 22:33
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HogX posted:I listened to the Austin podcast with Jake Roberts, and I realize I've never seen one of his matches. What's a good Jake The Snake Roberts match to watch? Skip the matches and just watch the promos imo But I can no longer stand the 80's WWF style where a punch and a scoop slam have roughly the same equity as any other move and regular vertical suplexes are treated with reverance (thanks Gorilla Monsoon, I thought it was literally called a textbook suplex until I was like 10 and this made sense to me)
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Sep 29, 2015 22:37
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NickRoweFillea posted:2 questions The text on the shirt and the text on the store are different for some reason? The shirt kanji as far as I can tell isn't a word in either Chinese or Japanese, but as a phrase it means like, "real noon"?? And as you said the store text is Chinese for "rules" but it's in the sense of rules and regulations, lol.
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Sep 29, 2015 22:46
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To the guy starting a fed or whatever best advice I can give is to cut your losses.
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Sep 29, 2015 22:47
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Trollologist posted:I'd like to clear up any misunderstanding about that right now. I had no intention of doing any "worked shoot" garbage. I just wanted to treat wrestlers like actors. if you're promoting the show, you're Dwayne Johnson. If the cameras are rolling and you're on stage/in the ring, you're The Rock. Just like every actor in every play,show, and movie everywhere in the world. That separation of performer and character is interesting in a 1997 McMahon "the audience is tired of having it's intelligence insulted" way, but it kind of runs against a key aspect of wrestling I think - paraphrased from something, I want to say that old "Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling" documentary: If you're in an airport and you run into Bruce Willis, it's neat that you're meeting a famous actor, but you're not meeting a guy who actually walked barefoot on broken glass and killed thousands of bad guys. But if at that same airport you meet Mick Foley, you are meeting the guy who was thrown off Hell in a Cell, you are meeting the guy who lost an ear in Germany, etc etc. How close the performers are to the characters they're portraying is one of the things that makes wrestling a uniquely personal artform and I don't think that any sense of "modernity" gained by acknowledging the work in your promotion of the shows is really worth sacrificing that. Which is not to say at all that you should go the route of everyone being Firstname Lastname who wants to win wrestling matches, as sticklefifer alluded to. Over the top characters are terrific, but you're going to be working with indie wrestlers, not trained actors. They should have some aspect of the person's real personality if they're going to ring true with an audience. Someone mentioned Ultramantis Black earlier, look at how he carried himself. The core character concept is basically an just insect version of Megatron or Cobra Commander, but UMB's own humour and theatricality and even his veganism all work to make it a fully formed and engaging character. That also makes it easy for the performer to develop a "media persona" for promotional stuff, where they can show some of their real personality while still remaining in character. "Just like every actor in every play, show and movie everywhere in the world." To me, the differences between wrestling and those mediums are what you should be promoting as the reason why people should be interested in the first place - a live and improvisational show with ongoing storylines that can run the gamut from intense action to high drama to absurd comedy while the performers are both actors and stunt men at the same time.
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Sep 29, 2015 22:59
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HogX posted:I listened to the Austin podcast with Jake Roberts, and I realize I've never seen one of his matches. What's a good Jake The Snake Roberts match to watch? The main event at the heroes of wrestling PPV ........I mean it's not a good match but it's good to watch.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:15
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HogX posted:I listened to the Austin podcast with Jake Roberts, and I realize I've never seen one of his matches. What's a good Jake The Snake Roberts match to watch? vs. Dibiase at Wrestlemania 6.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:25
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Spermgod posted:The text on the shirt and the text on the store are different for some reason? The shirt kanji as far as I can tell isn't a word in either Chinese or Japanese, but as a phrase it means like, "real noon"?? And as you said the store text is Chinese for "rules" but it's in the sense of rules and regulations, lol. biff busick is now an international man of mystery
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Sep 29, 2015 23:28
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The most important thing you can take from Roberts as an in the ring wrestler is just how insane the crowd gets whenever he gets his opponent in a face-lock. His finish was death, and the crowd knew it was death, and he knew exactly when to tease it. Otherwise he was punches, knee lifts, short arm clotheslines, and a post match gimmick that was almost as over as the DDT.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:39
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First off, to everyone concerned about my financial investments in this: thanks for you concern. I'm currently invested all of $0 and scheduled to invest nothing. if I put anything in financially, It'll probably about to a few hundred with the rider that A) I get paid back and B) the event needs to be solvent [i.e. paying for it's own operating costs whilst generating a bit of revenue] in order to accomplish A] Now, I know the gate and merch revenue averages and i've seen the crowd they have so, I'm not super concerned about my level of investing. Mostly, I'm just investing time which since I'm on unemployment for a few months on purpose, works just fine for me. Perry Normal posted:That separation of performer and character is interesting in a 1997 McMahon "the audience is tired of having it's intelligence insulted" way, but it kind of runs against a key aspect of wrestling I think - paraphrased from something, I want to say that old "Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling" documentary: If you're in an airport and you run into Bruce Willis, it's neat that you're meeting a famous actor, but you're not meeting a guy who actually walked barefoot on broken glass and killed thousands of bad guys. But if at that same airport you meet Mick Foley, you are meeting the guy who was thrown off Hell in a Cell, you are meeting the guy who lost an ear in Germany, etc etc. How close the performers are to the characters they're portraying is one of the things that makes wrestling a uniquely personal artform and I don't think that any sense of "modernity" gained by acknowledging the work in your promotion of the shows is really worth sacrificing that. I think for most people (not wrestling fans mind you) pro wrestling is viewed as a "dishonest low-brow business for dummies" which is why despite just about every american knowing what it is, and plenty of people with overlapping interests, most people just shy away from it. That's just my take on it I suppose. Perry Normal posted:Which is not to say at all that you should go the route of everyone being Firstname Lastname who wants to win wrestling matches, as sticklefifer alluded to. Over the top characters are terrific, but you're going to be working with indie wrestlers, not trained actors. They should have some aspect of the person's real personality if they're going to ring true with an audience. Someone mentioned Ultramantis Black earlier, look at how he carried himself. The core character concept is basically an just insect version of Megatron or Cobra Commander, but UMB's own humour and theatricality and even his veganism all work to make it a fully formed and engaging character. That also makes it easy for the performer to develop a "media persona" for promotional stuff, where they can show some of their real personality while still remaining in character. Perry Normal posted:To me, the differences between wrestling and those mediums are what you should be promoting as the reason why people should be interested in the first place - a live and improvisational show with ongoing storylines that can run the gamut from intense action to high drama to absurd comedy while the performers are both actors and stunt men at the same time. Thank you guys again for letting my co-opt this thread for a bit. I'm off to scout locations this week so, wish my luck there.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:42
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Sounds like you need to check out Kaiju Big Battel, since it sounds like you want to trend more towards that direction than wrasslin', per say.
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Sep 29, 2015 23:58
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If that catches on in Portland, I wonder if pro wrestling is going to start appealing to hipsters ironically.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:14
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sticklefifer posted:If that catches on in Portland, I wonder if pro wrestling is going to start appealing to hipsters ironically. This seems to be the premise of this board.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:20
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sticklefifer posted:If that catches on in Portland, I wonder if pro wrestling is going to start appealing to hipsters ironically. This has already happened.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:22
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Trollologist posted:"Summerslam, Starring Phil Brooks as C.M Punk" and just really coming clean that it's all a show. But the ring is the stage so, while the show is going on no one breaks character (like any stage play or tv show) I hate when they do this on the Divas show. They're all like "This is my bf Brick Slabtits, he plays GRAPPLOR the UNDEFEATABLE on the WWE Brodown television program" and it is terrible. As fans we're aware that nobody is throwing knockout punches and deliberately spiking heads into the mat (unless you're watching joshi). We've come to appreciate things like a wrestler's ability to sell, to throw good-looking punches that are safe, and to give a good promo. Knowing more about what is happening and why it's happening than we did in the 80's has given us new ways to appreciate the product. However, the product is still built on the trappings of pro wrestling. It is very hard to care about any of it when you're aware that the story and the actual combat sports abilities of the performers are completely meaningless because whoever they want to win is going to win. Because of that, I think most of us are engaging in a willing suspension of disbelief in order to pretend that: a.) wrestling isn't really loving stupid, and b.) the characters are worth caring about. While we're willing to do this, wrestling has to help us out a little by maybe not popping in to say "fake, lol" every 5 minutes. E: or just make it into a joshi promotion and have 90 lb women kicking each other in the face as hard as they can for 20 minutes, then you can do whatever you want titties fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 00:28
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Trollologist posted:I'm thinking about just doing away with kayfabe in all forms, IMO the reason a lot of people don't watch wrestling is the perception that "it's fake". I think if you started promoting wrestlers the way actors are promoted it would bring a lot of legitimacy back to the perception of pro-wrestling. You know instead of saying "C.M Punk is at summerslam!" you'd say "Summerslam, Starring Phil Brooks as C.M Punk" and just really coming clean that it's all a show. But the ring is the stage so, while the show is going on no one breaks character (like any stage play or tv show) This is, in large part, what Vince Russo wanted and was trying to do. Not necessarily what actually happened in WCW, because as it turned out, Russo wasn't good enough at it and the wrestlers weren't, either. But it's the kind of thing he was talking about in interviews before/during WCW and really all the way back to when he was Vicious Vincent on WGBB radio. On its own merits, I don't see why you would get people to care doing this. When you're pulling from the Vinny Ru playbook, I think you need to go back and think "am I going to be able to do this better, and can I trust that the workers will be 100% into it and be able to pull it off?" Overall, you need to do something that makes people watch, not just not do things that make people not watch.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:39
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It's called suspension of disbelief. I know that Terry Bollea isn't really Hulk Hogan. It's implicit and you don't need to lay it out for anyone who isn't a child. Printing up posters that say Terry Bollea AS Hulk Hogan is just patronizing.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:40
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I don't think you're going to get non-wrestling fans that way either. Their opinion isn't "wrestling is fake but portrayed as real, so I don't watch it", it's "wrestling is fake and stupid." Even if you tell them up front "we acknowledge this is fake", they're still going to think its stupid. You're far better off trying to market to people who like wrestling and can bring non-fans because it's a good product, not because you admit it's not on the up-and-up.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:50
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i guess i dont understand how all this works as a live product. If you're making a heavily produced tv show/dvd then you have the resources for this concept but i really don't understand what you're communicating to the live audience. The people that show up to indie wrestling shows are indie wrestling fans and you should worry about hooking them on your product with simple and enjoyable matches/angles instead of hooking casuals with a high concept since they will never hear about the shows you run.
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Sep 30, 2015 00:52
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NickRoweFillea posted:2 questions On the Best Friends interview with Biff, he said it was Japanese for "Top Cow"
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Sep 30, 2015 01:48
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Blast Fantasto posted:It's called suspension of disbelief. I know that Terry Bollea isn't really Hulk Hogan. Someone needs to tell the Hulkster.
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Sep 30, 2015 02:18
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