Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

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Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Derek Smart predicted this in his next blog post.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:50

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 02:57

big nipples big life: May 12, 2014

should add a dickwulf line below the javelin, otherwise nice op

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:50

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

Wait what? It finally happened? This scam finally imploded and is going down in flames?

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:51

baram.: Oct 23, 2007; smooth.

good poo poo op.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:51

Peroxide Cowboy: Nov 30, 2013

fuuuuuuuck those burgers I mentioned I was gonna eat. I just ate one with two bottom buns and the other with two top buns.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:52

Octopode: Sep 2, 2009; No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.

Internet Kraken posted:

Wait what? It finally happened? This scam finally imploded and is going down in flames?

Goons decided they were tired of believing in Chris Roberts, so they found someone even less likely to succeed to believe in instead.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:53

bean mom: Jan 30, 2009

If i didn't buy star citizen can I still receive a refund

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:53

Shala: Oct 15, 2006; i shot the pilot; Lipstick Apathy

that's some revolutionary burger-trailblazin goin down right there

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:53

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Internet Kraken posted:

Wait what? It finally happened? This scam finally imploded and is going down in flames?

its_happening.gif but with Derek Smart

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:54

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9iH4Gp11W4

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:55

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

Guys I was wrong. Apparently CIG did send me a message at 12:18 today but I guess it went into my spam folder. Probably because it's almost an exact copy of the one I got last week.

Patrick Probst (Cloud Imperium Games) posted:

Sep 29, 12:18

Dear Backers

As you may be aware, we are still inundated with support requests and are struggling to respond in a timely fashion.

We're making excellent head-way on the tickets currently in the queue but still need a little more time.

Please rest assured you are not forgotten and you will receive a reply as soon as it is possible.

We are very sorry for the inconvenience and frustration this may cause and hope for your understanding!

Regards
Patrick

Customer Service Manager & Lead Moderator
Cloud Imperium Games

Customer Service Manager & Lead Moderator
Cloud Imperium Games

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:55

Beer4TheBeerGod: Aug 23, 2004; Exciting Lemon

I officially declare Burgerchat to be Cool and Good.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:56

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

CIG is now demanding a $5 service charge for answering customer service emails to prevent people from gaming the system.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:56

Peroxide Cowboy: Nov 30, 2013

Xaerael posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9iH4Gp11W4

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:56

A Neurotic Jew: Feb 17, 2012; by exmarx

Internet Kraken posted:

Wait what? It finally happened? This scam finally imploded and is going down in flames?

Now is our time of dying friend. :unsmigghh:

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:57

Harry Joe: Jan 15, 2006; My name be neither Harry, nor Joe, but Harry Joe shall do

how many burgers do i have to eat to be eligible for a refund

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:57

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Welp, I couldn't (be arsed) make his head stay still but that just added to it imo

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:57

Peroxide Cowboy: Nov 30, 2013

Harry Joe posted:

how many burgers do i have to eat to be eligible for a refund

Remember that episode of Homer in hell with the donuts. Just let that sink in.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:58

Kimsemus: Dec 4, 2013; by Reene; Toilet Rascal

Peroxide Cowboy posted:

And upon that day did Smart Defender of the Realm give unto us the refund.

MORE!

# ? Sep 30, 2015 00:59

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

Also, who is Patrick Probst?

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:00

3: Aug 26, 2006; The Magic Number; College Slice

Looking at the OP is like meeting an old friend after a long absence.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:01

Beluga Snail: Jul 26, 2013

Remember, burgers are like steaks - either salt your meat well in advance of cooking or just before you cook.

Don't salt while mixing meat and forming patties and then throw onto heat 10 minutes later. The Burger Gods frown on this.

If adding bacon, it is a Good and Joyful thing to either make triangles out of bacon before frying or a weave. None of that X-shaped Wendy's crap.

Beluga Snail fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Sep 30, 2015

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:01

A Neurotic Jew: Feb 17, 2012; by exmarx

working at CIG is like being part of a happy family

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:02

Xaerael: Aug 25, 2010; Marching Powder is objectively the worst poster known. He also needs to learn how a keyboard works.

I just took some Beef Brisket burgers that won UK burger of the year out the freezer. Been saving them since summer, but the new Burgerchat thread seems to be the right time to bring them out. I just wish I had some of the posh burger relish I got at a summer village festival left.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:02

OhDearGodNo: Jan 3, 2014

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I officially declare Burgerchat to be Cool and Good.

Before that, have you put in for your refund yet?

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:02

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

thatguy posted:

Guys I was wrong. Apparently CIG did send me a message at 12:18 today but I guess it went into my spam folder. Probably because it's almost an exact copy of the one I got last week.

owns

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:02

Gwaihir: Dec 8, 2009; Hair Elf

FelixReynolds posted:

Remember, burgers are like steaks - either salt your meat well in advance of cooking or just before you cook.

Don't salt while mixing meat and forming patties and then throw onto heat 10 minutes later. The Buger Gods frown on this.

If adding bacon, it is a Good and Joyful thing to either make triangles out of bacon before frying or a weave. None of that X-shaped Wendy's crap.

I have done the baconweave before.

It was a good thing.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:03

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

A Neurotic Jew posted:

working at CIG is like being part of a happy family

I seem to see this Chris fella doing that a lot with his arms, why does he do that?

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:05

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

The OP owns but this...

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I officially declare Burgerchat to be Cool and Good.

...is sheer :glomp:

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:05

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

After CIG collapses and Chris Roberts flees to Argentina I want a full documentary; interviews with disgruntled staff, recreations based on actual events and a voiceover by Warner Herzog.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:05

Variable 5: Apr 17, 2007; We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy.; Grimey Drawer

The king is dead.

Long live the king.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:05

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

peter gabriel posted:

I seem to see this Chris fella doing that a lot with his arms, why does he do that?

To hypnotize the everfaithful into pledging more. Like snake charmers do.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:06

Degs: Mar 2, 2014

Man, what happened

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:06

Tenzarin: Jul 24, 2007; .; Taco Defender

Where were you when the kickstarter gave out refunds?

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:06

KakerMix: Apr 8, 2004; 8.2 M.P.G.

Best thread about the best game on the whole internet forever, it's been an honor shitposting with you all.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:06

DOMDOM: Apr 28, 2007; Fun Shoe

reddit reporting in on an interview with german production manager of quantic dream (makers of PS3 heavy rain), Chris Smitz, who at cursory glance (google) seems to have a lot of experience.

original interview in german

reddit transcript posted:

How ambitious is the project?
Very ambitious, but not impossible. Many other projects of the scope existed, some with even more people, budget and studios, like Ubisoft games. Complicated to coordinate, some efficiency losses will occur.

Budget maybe too small compared to other AAA titles, like GTA 5?
Budgets of other games often unclear, because of marketing costs being included in public figures. Current amount of SC budget sufficient for quite a large production.

Given 100 mio. $ and 250 - 300 staff members, how long can you operate?
Around 50 month = 4,5 years. Calculations difficult, because early on there probably were fewer people on the project than currently employed. Overall, team size will fluctuate according to project phase. Also infrastructure costs. Tentatively > 4,5 years.

Could the project delays be attributed to studio build up processes? Should CR have known that his estimates would be way off?
No, large and ambitious projects are very complex and hard to predict. Even estimates with small teams (20 - 30 people) are difficult. CIGs modular development approach makes sense insofar as it reduces studio dependencies. Projects are most difficult when working on the same aspect of the game across multiple studios, time zones, etc.

Is the game AAAA? Would a publisher even take on a scale like this?
It could be that big publishers would reject such a scale. MMOs are generelly more difficult to produce than singleplayer games. Few publishers would even be able to support the vision, and if one of them would take the chance is uncertain. The taken Kickstarter approach seems logical.

Do modern publishers generally act risk averse?
No, Ubisoft is taking some big risks and computer games are still hard to market. At the end of the day, the goal is to sell copies and make money, not to create games as an end in itself. Too many risks lead to fiscal problems, which is why publishers have to establish a risk diverse portfolio. Titles like CoD and AC are low risk developement and exist to provide a certain cashflow, which in turn can be invested in more innovative titles.

Can you name some of these innovative Ubisoft titles?
BlueByte F2P initiative, The Division (much experimentation)

CR has been known to miss deadlines. For SC, how important is a publisher that checks milestones and makes hard adjustments?
Publisher are foremost risk takers for investor money. Generelly it is a good idea for major investors of any nature to have a spokesperson on site (at the developer). Kickstarter projects are fundamentally different.

Does the value of a publisher correlate positively with project size?
No developer likes the interference but without control you may be more inclined to take risks that aren�t in the investors interest. Cant say if this applies to SC.

Taking into account all the promised features, like shooter, MMO, Wing Commander like campaign, etc. (all in AAA quality), was the estimated development time of 3 years ever realistic?
Yes, it could have been a realistic guess. I havent developed with CryEngine, but CIG did make alterations to the engine. With no existing studio and no staff, 3 years seems very ambitious but not foredoomed to fail. There is a small degree between absurd and ambitious and maybe those predictions were somewhat close to �absurd� but not quite there. The more innovative a game is, the more difficult the prediction becomes. Its also not clear how well a team of newly assembled talent will work together. The team working on the ANNO series shipped its latest title accurately (they met the predicted release day(!)), partly also because the members have been working together for quite some time. Delays are natural for projects. All deadlines are estimates.

Could it be naive to proclaim a release date so early in development?
There are many problems to doing that, but it may make some sense, given the crowdfunding nature of the project.

Giving a release date > 2016 may have detered many people from backing the initial campaign.
Yes, I agree. They probably never anticipated collecting so much money.

CR and others have said that rapid studio expansion has been a problem and cause of demise for both Westwood and Origin, partly because the prevalent company culture suffered heavily. SC seems to be similar in that vein. (other interviewer objects:) CIG never had a company culture to begin with, since there was no existing studio.
Growing in size is always difficult for a studio, sometimes because no ample personnel is available, sometimes because of integration problems. Growing pains occur and are common in every industry, not just the gaming industry. Starting from scratch seems to be easier, than changing a studio. Still, it�s very difficult to build a workforce for such a project size, which commonly leads to heavy delays. With nearly all productions I have worked on, there have been many comings and goings as well as heavy rotation in key positions.

DS stated that CIG should have build an engine from scratch instead of taking CryEngine. What�s your take on that?
Using a standard engine is possible but the more specific your game-driven engine needs become, the more it warrants the additional dev time to develop your own engine. Rumor has it, that Crytek put some effort into making engine adjustments for CIG. Ubisoft uses a lot of propr. engines for their games. Just a guess: the Frankfurt office, comprised of former Crytek staff, is probably adjusting the engine to meet SCs needs.

short rant about DS

The group dynamic behind SC is fascinating. Backers sometimes seem fanatic whereas critics seem like they just want to see the project burn.
Yeah, this is really interesting. With our projects, people from the outside often had discussions that were so far from the truth, it was comical. Some small gesture or some phrasing was interpreted in a way that didn�t meet reality at all. It�s funny to see this happen to SC as well. Often, it seems like now dissatisfied people who invested heavily into the project are talking themselves into rage and seeing connections, where there actually are none. It appears to be coping with frustration more than a factual debate.

everybody agrees that debating things which one knows nothing about is not a clever thing to do. Also, this casts Crowdfunding in a problematic light, because people are investing immense sums without having any knowledge of game development and therefore without having any realistic estimates of the risks involved with the project.

CIGs funding campaign is very succcessful because CR is selling dreams/ visions

discussion about CIG continuing the funding campaign, even without additional stretch goals- nothing of interest here

How difficult could the integration of all, now seperate, modules be and how much time could it take?
A long time probably- interdependencies normally create lots of new problems. Giving a time estimate would be dubious, but it certainly is going to be a major task.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:07

CrazyLoon: Aug 10, 2015; "..."

Bedshaped posted:

After CIG collapses and Chris Roberts flees to Argentina I want a full documentary; interviews with disgruntled staff, recreations based on actual events and a voiceover by Warner Herzog.

He can just copypasta this, when he gets around to the subject of Dickwulf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:07

A Neurotic Jew: Feb 17, 2012; by exmarx

I'm really looking forward to that point where there is completely radio silence, all media updates just stop coming and Lesnik and Lando or whoever hasn't posted in weeks and mass confusion starts to sink in. Meanwhile Octopode is still posting about how this is a completely normal thing to be happening.

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:08

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

I refuse to get a refund, it's a ban or bust for me

I am a badass

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:08

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 02:57

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Degs posted:

Man, what happened

it didnt work

# ? Sep 30, 2015 01:08

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