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the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Someone Awful! posted:

these two posts stand out as weird to me, even for jokephase

the thought process here is sound (and i agree with it. make content make content post post post :justpost: ) but i don't think it necessarily makes kumba town; if i were scum I'd probably try to get people off the Biaga lynch because it's a case on a newbie and seems too easy/opportunistic, so i'd maybe earn some townie brownie points for it

i dunno, i agree with almost everything kumba has posted but my gut feels like he's scummy. why this? i don't know??? Like I can't even defend this read it's entirely gut and unsubstantiated

Someone Awful! posted:

I just like getting my opinions out there even if they're unsubstantiated and lovely because it makes me actually think about people, and maybe makes other people think about people too

plus sometimes people go "what the gently caress why would you say such a stupid thing???????" and it makes me realize errors in my logic which helps me find scum better!!! successes all around. and if it leads to me getting hanged, well uh, at least people know what my thoughts were

Some super-hedged posts from Someone Awful, getting a really weird vibe here. He really, really wants to make a case on kumba but doesn't really have anything to build it on, so he calls it a gut feel. Nothing wrong with calling your gut, but I'm :raise: at how much he preemptively tries to defend and distance himself from his "gut" posts.

Someone Awful! posted:

I'd still be more inclined to believe biaga as a dumb newbie non-vanilla town than scum tbqh (note: not fishing for power roles, this is just my opinion)

Also kind of curious why this comes up at all. What makes you peg him as a power role? I'm just honestly curious about your reasoning here, it doesn't seem to be particularly scummy but it comes out of left field.

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the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Hermetic posted:

Hi Someone Awful!

It's less the defeatism being scummy, but the tone of it. Like he's feigning defeatism and trying to get us to back off. He has an attitude of "Go ahead and lynch me...BUT YOU'LL BE SORRY!" It feels a tad off to me.

I do agree that there are better candidates, though keeping me on your scumdar isn't the worst idea. My lack of posting and appearance of bandwagoning is a bit scummy, I admit.

Podima posted:

I don't know what the ~SA Meta~ is per se, but this kind of "oh gosh I guess I look kinda bad" sheepishness tends to rub me the wrong way. If you're not scum, why would you call attention to yourself acting scummy? :confused: I don't want to get into even more WIFOM stuff but this is worth keeping an eye on.

I think Hermetic seems sincere here to me. Granted, it's the only post where I think he feels sincere, but it seems an odd thing to call him out for.

Looking back over Hermetic's posts, he... doesn't actually say much of anything other than his original Biaga case, except a lot of excuses about why he's not making more meaningful posts. Some people are lazy, some people are busy, so I don't really consider that a strong sign by itself. Reaaaaally interested to see what he has to say tonight, though, because the more I read this the less I like it:

Hermetic posted:

Yeah, I'm gonna feel dumb as gently caress if he's got a useful power and we make him do a mid-air jig. That said, he's the closest thing to a viable option. I'm in the same boat as you: There are a few people that feel off to me, but all I have is gut right now, and I'd rather not just throw around a bunch of "U FEEL LIEK SKUM 2 ME" accusations. That seems useless at best, scummy at worst.

Feels like he's trying to reassure people that he's doing his homework but just doesn't feel like showing it to anyone.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
I don't like those last two posts by Gabriel. All he does is essentially call out two people for hedging, but doesn't make any alignment calls.

My gut says Kash and Gabriel are working together.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

TMMadman posted:

I don't like those last two posts by Gabriel. All he does is essentially call out two people for hedging, but doesn't make any alignment calls.

My gut says Kash and Gabriel are working together.

:question::question::question::question::question::question::question::question::question::question:

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
I don't get you, man. His callouts aren't related to people I've even commented on except for saying I need to reread herm thanks to Kumba. I'm not calling people out without giving alignments or backing my play, we aren't acting similarly or going after the same people. What makes you think that we're both scumbros?

Hermetic
Sep 7, 2007

by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Evidence is demonstrably not everything in mafia - persuasion is. You don't have to be right, you just need to convince others that you're right. Looking for hard evidence that someone is scum is going to be an uphill battle, because everything is subjective.


As people have already stated, looking for a "viable option" this early reeks of trying to take advantage of someone's blunder instead of actually hunting scum. Gut calls are perfectly fine D1 - even if you're wrong, you can get people to respond to your prods and accusations in order to better gauge their alignment. You're coming across as even more defeatist than Biaga is here. This, combined with your tinfoil theory and Podima's analysis of your sheepishness, leads me to believe you are scum.

##vote Hermetic

If you want to talk about my gut reads, you were one of them. For some reason, they rubbed me the wrong way. You were kinda on my "watch" list from then

Jumping on me is the first thing you've done that I can say feels concretely scummy, though. You don't want to jump on the biagawagon, of course, because it seems to be losing steam, and at this point it would be too obvious. However, there's a lot of pressure on me because my posts have been a bit wishy-washy. (It's just how I reason through things without hard evidence. There's a lot of room for me to be wrong, so I dislike stating things with certainty). Thus, you can get a train running on me for the next 24 hours, avoiding more poking and prodding of others, and drive a townie lynch day 1.

Make a case why I'm scum. I think it will help me get a better read on you.

Gabriel Pope posted:

Looking back over Hermetic's posts, he... doesn't actually say much of anything other than his original Biaga case, except a lot of excuses about why he's not making more meaningful posts. Some people are lazy, some people are busy, so I don't really consider that a strong sign by itself. Reaaaaally interested to see what he has to say tonight, though, because the more I read this the less I like it:
[/post]

Busy. Taking some time during office hours to address some concerns and talk a little about my reads. If they don't read as "meaningful", that's because D1 feels like there's nothing to talk about to me.

[quote="Gabriel Pope" post="450853098"]
Feels like he's trying to reassure people that he's doing his homework but just doesn't feel like showing it to anyone.

I'm just not big on wild accusations. It feels like scum behavior to me.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Hermetic posted:

Jumping on me is the first thing you've done that I can say feels concretely scummy, though. You don't want to jump on the biagawagon, of course, because it seems to be losing steam, and at this point it would be too obvious. However, there's a lot of pressure on me because my posts have been a bit wishy-washy. (It's just how I reason through things without hard evidence. There's a lot of room for me to be wrong, so I dislike stating things with certainty). Thus, you can get a train running on me for the next 24 hours, avoiding more poking and prodding of others, and drive a townie lynch day 1.

What? Kumba has been one of Biaga's biggest apologists. He's the reason the biagawagon is losing steam.

Hermetic posted:

Busy. Taking some time during office hours to address some concerns and talk a little about my reads. If they don't read as "meaningful", that's because D1 feels like there's nothing to talk about to me.

You realize this sentiment is why people started jumping on Biaga in the first place, right?

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy

Hermetic posted:

If you want to talk about my gut reads, you were one of them. For some reason, they rubbed me the wrong way. You were kinda on my "watch" list from then

Jumping on me is the first thing you've done that I can say feels concretely scummy, though. You don't want to jump on the biagawagon, of course, because it seems to be losing steam, and at this point it would be too obvious. However, there's a lot of pressure on me because my posts have been a bit wishy-washy. (It's just how I reason through things without hard evidence. There's a lot of room for me to be wrong, so I dislike stating things with certainty). Thus, you can get a train running on me for the next 24 hours, avoiding more poking and prodding of others, and drive a townie lynch day 1.

Make a case why I'm scum. I think it will help me get a better read on you.


I'm just not big on wild accusations. It feels like scum behavior to me.

Are you sure you actually read my post? I did make a case on you, it was literally in the post you quoted. Then I voted you based on said case. I've been poking and prodding people constantly, I don't know how you can possibly posit that I am trying to avoid it

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy

Gabriel Pope posted:

What? Kumba has been one of Biaga's biggest apologists. He's the reason the biagawagon is losing steam.


You realize this sentiment is why people started jumping on Biaga in the first place, right?

Also, this

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


haha hedging is already one of my worst Mafia Bad Habits, this is my 3rd game and I still haven't learned that I don't need to be so cautious about everything I post :shobon:

I like that kumba post in response to mine about him though. Not totally reassured that kumba is town but I appreciate the thought process there

Podima's single-vote lurker prod was weird and unnecessary but not voteworthy.

I agree that it seems weird that Gabriel Pope didn't make any alignment calls/votes in his last posts; I especially feel like the point he made on me was a bit forced (though obviously I have some bias there, lolol). I feel like his posts are basically throwing softball reads out there in the hope that one of them sticks/gathers steam rather than actually scum-hunting?

##vote gabriel pope

Gabriel Pope posted:

Also kind of curious why this comes up at all. What makes you peg him as a power role? I'm just honestly curious about your reasoning here, it doesn't seem to be particularly scummy but it comes out of left field.

In hindsight I agree it was an awkward post but at the time I was trying to figure out where all his "go ahead vote me, you'll all be sorry!!!" stuff was coming from and my brain made the leap to "might have a power role" rather than "is a weird scared newbie" (though it could be both?). either way it was an unnecessary thing to say

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Gabriel Pope posted:

Also kind of curious why this comes up at all. What makes you peg him as a power role? I'm just honestly curious about your reasoning here, it doesn't seem to be particularly scummy but it comes out of left field.

I feel the same way about Biaga so let me lay it out: Biaga's defensiveness and "lynching me will only hurt us :smith:" posting makes me think he's not a VT. Furthermore I feel a degree of empathy for him as a new player: I've gotten worked up at being voted on and acted weirdly before, too. All in all: Biaga seems like a townie who got tripped up by weird posting early on and then wavered between being resigned to getting lynched and suggesting that axing him would be more harm than a straight VT lynch.

I don't think it's correct play for a townie power role, like SSV suggests here:

SirSamVimes posted:

Biaga's following posts have just made me feel better about my vote on them. Not only the advocating a no lynch (and recommending people who want to lynch d1 lol), they've started going with the "I'm going to get lynched, might as well not bother defending myself" thing which is also a very anti town playstyle. If you want to not seem scummy, give some opinions on who you think IS scum. Don't worry about being wrong, you can change your opinion as more information/posts happen.

but I've also been caught out in a similar way to Biaga so I feel some new player camaraderie here.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Someone Awful! posted:

haha hedging is already one of my worst Mafia Bad Habits, this is my 3rd game and I still haven't learned that I don't need to be so cautious about everything I post :shobon:

I like that kumba post in response to mine about him though. Not totally reassured that kumba is town but I appreciate the thought process there

Podima's single-vote lurker prod was weird and unnecessary but not voteworthy.

I agree that it seems weird that Gabriel Pope didn't make any alignment calls/votes in his last posts; I especially feel like the point he made on me was a bit forced (though obviously I have some bias there, lolol). I feel like his posts are basically throwing softball reads out there in the hope that one of them sticks/gathers steam rather than actually scum-hunting?

##vote gabriel pope

In hindsight I agree it was an awkward post but at the time I was trying to figure out where all his "go ahead vote me, you'll all be sorry!!!" stuff was coming from and my brain made the leap to "might have a power role" rather than "is a weird scared newbie" (though it could be both?). either way it was an unnecessary thing to say

You haven't exactly been pitching overhand yourself. I don't see you can make a post like your Kumba "case" and then turn around and accuse someone else of softballing.

You're right though. Let me put my money where my mouth is.

##vote Hermetic

Nth Doctor posted:

I feel the same way about Biaga so let me lay it out: Biaga's defensiveness and "lynching me will only hurt us :smith:" posting makes me think he's not a VT. Furthermore I feel a degree of empathy for him as a new player: I've gotten worked up at being voted on and acted weirdly before, too. All in all: Biaga seems like a townie who got tripped up by weird posting early on and then wavered between being resigned to getting lynched and suggesting that axing him would be more harm than a straight VT lynch.

I still don't buy this reasoning. He's been explicitly saying that axing him would be exactly as much harm as a straight VT lynch. He's ostensibly frustrated because there's nothing he can offer in his defense, but if he was a town power role he would have an "out" for himself and would be dancing around an unspoken claim instead of saying "go ahead and lynch me, nothing I can do about it."

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Kashuno posted:

this is a weird insinuation

Kashuno posted:

I disagree

##vote Biaga
Kash, you went from a vote on Biaga being weird to voting him yourself in just over an hour and you've stuck to your guns ever since. This is why I agree with TMM that your vote seems opportunistic. The only waver you've had was this morning:

Kashuno posted:

I really like this argument, and will have to give Hermetic a reread.
Furthermore you got a direct accusation of being bros with Pope and you did the same thing you blame Biaga for:

Kashuno posted:

Why? Biaga answered Kumba's question with a non-answer, rather than a denial. His response is not useful, and is dodging the question. In addition, taunting a vote like that seems very scummy to me. It's a small case, but it's something for now.

TMMadman posted:

I don't like those last two posts by Gabriel. All he does is essentially call out two people for hedging, but doesn't make any alignment calls.

My gut says Kash and Gabriel are working together.
You aren't answering the charge here. You're just :iiam: at TMM.
##vote Kashuno

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Kashuno posted:

I don't get you, man. His callouts aren't related to people I've even commented on except for saying I need to reread herm thanks to Kumba. I'm not calling people out without giving alignments or backing my play, we aren't acting similarly or going after the same people. What makes you think that we're both scumbros?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


whoa you have an av now

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

It's because in all the hedging that Pope has done so far, he makes a post that calls you town.

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009
So I have stopped lurking in this thread, so I apologise for not posting as much as I use to (continually I am in school so Wednesdays are busy for me) but regardless i will attempt to clarify my justification for pointing a finger at Kashuno.

Kashuno posted:

I disagree

##vote Biaga

The first person to vote for me was pope, I honestly think his vote was less a serious post and more a point of justifying to me the intention of day1 in feeling out people and forcing them to justify a vote or suspicion. Kushuno, on the other hand, was less about justification and more aimed at removing the first likely threat. He jumped on voting for the first person with a weak defense, or, more accurately to my situation, lack of experience.


Kashuno posted:

After resigning himself to accusation and death (twice now) he then states it's a bad idea to start killing people d1.

Resigning to die is really easy especially when you have nothing to hide. I also have never stated that killing someone on d1 is anything but negative(though I have grown to see the logic in a game outside face-to-face interaction, as this brief period of attention in game has grown to show me).



[/quote]

Gabriel Pope posted:

Kashuno is trying way too hard, but he seems confident in his convictions. I find Hermetic's opportunism a lot more eyebrow-raising:

Kashuno jumped on the Biaga vote ASAP, but Heremetic waited for it to conveniently build up some steam before joining in, then tries to stoke things up again when the fire starts to die down. With the weirdest, craziest theory I've ever seen, no less, then backpedaling when it's pointed out how crazy it is.

I think this sums it up pretty nicely, and only saw this after I started this post.


##vote Kashuno

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009
(for a second there i was really confused as to the new appearance of Kushano's avatar, I thought I was quoting the wrong person for a while...:confused:)

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

TMMadman posted:

It's because in all the hedging that Pope has done so far, he makes a post that calls you town.

Fair. I hadn't noticed that.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Biaga posted:

So I have stopped lurking in this thread, so I apologise for not posting as much as I use to (continually I am in school so Wednesdays are busy for me) but regardless i will attempt to clarify my justification for pointing a finger at Kashuno.


The first person to vote for me was pope, I honestly think his vote was less a serious post and more a point of justifying to me the intention of day1 in feeling out people and forcing them to justify a vote or suspicion. Kushuno, on the other hand, was less about justification and more aimed at removing the first likely threat. He jumped on voting for the first person with a weak defense, or, more accurately to my situation, lack of experience.


Resigning to die is really easy especially when you have nothing to hide. I also have never stated that killing someone on d1 is anything but negative(though I have grown to see the logic in a game outside face-to-face interaction, as this brief period of attention in game has grown to show me).





I think this sums it up pretty nicely, and only saw this after I started this post.


##vote Kashuno
[/quote]

If my vote was opportunistic and trying to jump at the first threat I see, why would I stick with my vote as is right now when the tide on the case is turning, and there are other people being voted?

Also it seems weird that a post calling me town sums up your opinions and says to you that you should vote for me.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Captain Foo posted:

whoa you have an av now

:razz:

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

kashuno check your voting, the broken quote means you're currently voting for yourself

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy

Kashuno posted:

I think this sums it up pretty nicely, and only saw this after I started this post.


##vote Kashuno

quote:

If my vote was opportunistic and trying to jump at the first threat I see, why would I stick with my vote as is right now when the tide on the case is turning, and there are other people being voted?

Also it seems weird that a post calling me town sums up your opinions and says to you that you should vote for me.

this is one of the funnier formatting fuckups i've seen lmao

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy
kash that av looks like something out of an N64 game is it from pilotwings or majora's mask or something

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Kashuno posted:

Also it seems weird that a post calling me town sums up your opinions and says to you that you should vote for me.

Saying that I think Herm is scummier than you is not exactly "calling you town."

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
##vote biaga


Kumbamontu posted:

kash that av looks like something out of an N64 game is it from pilotwings or majora's mask or something


It's from

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

Gabriel Pope posted:

Saying that I think Herm is scummier than you is not exactly "calling you town."

I read that first sentence as a town call, my bad

Hermetic
Sep 7, 2007

by exmarx

Kumbamontu posted:

Are you sure you actually read my post? I did make a case on you, it was literally in the post you quoted. Then I voted you based on said case. I've been poking and prodding people constantly, I don't know how you can possibly posit that I am trying to avoid it

Nah, it felt like you just lecturing me about my posting style rather than "Here is why Hermetic is scum like Solanas' manifesto". If that's your entire case against me, then I think I got all the read I need.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
Man I thought the deadline was today in like 4 hours and I was wondering why the thread was so quiet. But then I checked and saw the deadline is tomorrow, so we've got plenty of time.

I still think Kash and Pope are probably scum. SSV might also be scum, but I'll have to reread him. Kumba is almost certainly town and if he's playing that active scum routine then I'll hate him forever.

someone awful.
Sep 7, 2007


TMMadman posted:

Man I thought the deadline was today in like 4 hours and I was wondering why the thread was so quiet. But then I checked and saw the deadline is tomorrow, so we've got plenty of time.

I still think Kash and Pope are probably scum. SSV might also be scum, but I'll have to reread him. Kumba is almost certainly town and if he's playing that active scum routine then I'll hate him forever.

there isn't too much to reread on ssv he has like 5 posts, one of which is a contentless vote on biaga and one of which is an "advocating no-lynches is scummy!!!" post. reads like lurking scum to me

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
TMM I want you to imagine the face in my avatar every single time you accuse me of being scum in all games in the future because you're always wrong

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Kashuno posted:

TMM I want you to imagine the face in my avatar every single time you accuse me of being scum in all games in the future because you're always wrong

Your new avatar only makes me suspect you more!

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

TMMadman posted:

Your new avatar only makes me suspect you more!

:razz:

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Deadbeat Dad replaces Tommunist!

Deadbeat Dad
Jun 3, 2005

the trad games jinho
Hello pals. I will catch up, but if anybody wants to condense some things we're looking at that would be swell too.

kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy
good evening thread, hello dbd

i would summarize it but it's only like 5 pages of content you can catch up in 10 minutes

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 1

Biaga (3): Gabriel Pope, Kashuno, SirSamVimes, Gabriel Pope, Hermetic, Kashuno, Kashuno
Kashuno (3): TMMadman, TMMadman, TMMadman, Nth Doctor, Biaga, Kashuno, Kashuno
Hermetic (2): Kumbamontu, Gabriel Pope
Colonel Corazon (1): Podima
Gabriel Pope (1): Someone Awful!
Kumbamontu (0): Podima, Kashuno, Kashuno, Podima
TMMadman (0): Kumbamontu, Kumbamontu

Not Voting (3): Colonel Corazon, Deadbeat Dad, Green Intern

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to lynch. The current deadline is October 01st, 2015 at 11:15 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 2 hours.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Deadbeat Dad posted:

Hello pals. I will catch up, but if anybody wants to condense some things we're looking at that would be swell too.

I think the biggest issues facing you are these:

1. Do you think Biaga is being an awkward newbie or an awkward scum? Lots of people think scum, a couple people (including me) just see new guy.

2. What do you think about Hermetic? I believe he is another new guy and the same questions apply to him. I am pretty neutral on him right now

3. Gabriel Pope is also getting looked at a bit now because he is hedging a bit.

About the only solid town read I've got is Kumba because he is posting a lot and it's pretty sincere.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


TMMadman posted:

I think the biggest issues facing you are these:

1. Do you think Biaga is being an awkward newbie or an awkward scum? Lots of people think scum, a couple people (including me) just see new guy.

2. What do you think about Hermetic? I believe he is another new guy and the same questions apply to him. I am pretty neutral on him right now

3. Gabriel Pope is also getting looked at a bit now because he is hedging a bit.

About the only solid town read I've got is Kumba because he is posting a lot and it's pretty sincere.

It's worth pointing out, strongly suspected townie Kumba notably appears to think Biaga is town as well.

Kumbamontu posted:

Your answer seemed to exhibit actual thought, though shallow (which is fine - the question couldn't get any shallower), which is more likely to come from a member of the town, in my opinion.

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kumba
Nov 8, 2003

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

enjoy the ride

Lipstick Apathy

Hermetic posted:

Nah, it felt like you just lecturing me about my posting style rather than "Here is why Hermetic is scum like Solanas' manifesto". If that's your entire case against me, then I think I got all the read I need.

Did you ignore the second paragraph and focus only on the first? I'm sincerely stumped as to how you are reaching this conclusion because the words are right there.

As for having "all the read you need", I pose a question to you: let's assume for a moment you are in fact town and I am wrong. Why does me being wrong about your alignment mean I'm scum? Gabriel Pope is voting for you - is he scum too?

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