Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Marauder: Dec 1, 2013; Why walk out when you can outrun?

D_Smart posted:

Their arbitration clause won't hold. And even if it did, it would be their fault it even became a legal matter because all they had to do was provide the financials as required to. Case closed.

I'm sure this is your professional opinion, of course?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:06

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 23:38

Justin Tyme: Feb 22, 2011

them casting Brendan Fraiser is personally the one thing that would make me a True Believer again tbh

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:08

Amun Khonsu: Sep 15, 2012; wtf did he just say?; Grimey Drawer

Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:19

EminusSleepus: Sep 28, 2015

Amun Khonsu posted:

where is Ben? the invisible elephant in the room?

well if Ben is a ship he will cost more than the Javelin..more like in the ballpark cost of the Bengal Carrier. since Ships are priced based on size

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:29

SirPhoebos: Dec 10, 2007; WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

CashEnsign posted:

We already have Mark Hamill, who else do we need? Brendan Fraiser?

what's the over/under on a lawyer at Disney finding out about this mess and telling Mark he needs to sever his relationship? Because I'd love to see the Shitizens try to rationalize involvement in Star Citizen as being far more worthwhile than some film called Star Wars.

Amun Khonsu posted:

you left out calling her a gamergater as well. Something feminists were really in support of if I remember correctly. :v:

SirPhoebos fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:31

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

CashEnsign posted:

We already have Mark Hamill, who else do we need? Brendan Fraiser?

How much are you ready to put down to see?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:33

sub supau: Aug 28, 2007

SirPhoebos posted:

what's the over/under on a lawyer at Disney finding out about this mess and telling Mark he needs to sever his relationship?

There is roughly zero chance of that happening.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:34

Proteus4994: Jan 2, 2001; Do not engage. Just tell me to go back to Kiwi Farms where I waste days upon days crying about how I wasted years upon years on SA. Did you know I was personally responsible for SA's rise in popularity in the 00's? It's true! Just come to the Farms and find out how! It's the trash kingdom I deserve.

ocrumsprug posted:

Have we started predictions on Citcon yet?

I predict a new funding campaign to pay for celeb VA. Each funding level will have additional talent added to the game.

For $100 you get the main character voiced by Carrot Top

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:39

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

So I just read the most expensive jpg is $2500 but they only ever sold a limited quantity.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/aegis-javelin/Javelin-Class-Destroyer

However if you just must own that picture you can buy the $15000 "Completionist" package. Of course that doesn't actually contain the jpg, but you do get a token that gives you the right to buy it :suicide:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Combos/The-Completionist-Digital

I'm beginning to understand why CIG gently caress their whales in the rear end so hard. They basically beg for it.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:47

grimcreaper: Jan 7, 2012

D_Smart posted:

Well, for starters, it would be a fitting tribute to the man who flushed their dreams down the very crapper they'd be sim-sitting in.

Dear Mr Smart. I just want to thank you for time spent on this E-Crusade. Its very important to me that the shithead Croberts gets properly poo poo on for destroying what would be my absolute Dream Game. I never backed it, but im still considering sending a refund request for my dreams and hopes.

Edit: What is the price of a mans hopes and dreams? How emotionally distraught can one be upon learning their very future, which was set in stone (the verse) is now shattered and scattered among the stars that you shall never see...

Mr Smart is the goons Jayme Dawson. Rip those CIG's to bloody shreds!

grimcreaper fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 06:49

Social Media: Jan 21, 2010

how many video games will feminists ruin before they're satisfied?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:04

KakerMix: Apr 8, 2004; 8.2 M.P.G.

OhDearGodNo posted:

E:D doesn't suck, but it's not great.

It's notoriously okay.

It can get real drat good looking tho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Id-nlHjvZI

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:10

Klyith: Aug 3, 2007; GBS Pledge Week

D_Smart posted:

Well, for starters, it would be a fitting tribute to the man who flushed their dreams down the very crapper they'd be sim-sitting in.

God daaaaaamn.

Also Mr Smart since you're taking questions, have you ever spent an evening at an E3 or GCG hanging out with Chet Faliszek and Erik Wolpaw, like at a bar or something? Because I really want to imagine that happening.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:17

EminusSleepus: Sep 28, 2015

Social Media posted:

how many video games will feminists ruin before they're satisfied?

till all characters in a video games are all clean shaven genitals

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:17

Dapper Dan: Dec 16, 2004; Can't post for 3 years!

A Neurotic Jew posted:

I really only funded this game for the social module so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out.

When I first heard about 'Star Citizen' I was kind of bewildered how anyone would think that would work, at least for the second iteration. I did think back to d_smart's games (I remember thinking them crazy ambitious for the time, but then again I can't remember anyone else doing it at that time either. The late '90s seems forever ago) and how it'd basically take AAA money and talent to pull off. And maybe not even then. Multiple games in one are incredibly difficult to do and even then they mesh 1 or 2 genres.

I mean, they had Witcher 3 money (its crazy if you think about it, The Witcher cost something like 85-90 to make), but were trying to pull off a space fighting sim, an economic sim, an exploration sim, an fps and all with both single and multiplayer elements. The Witcher 3 tried to be one thing and spent all its money doing that (I guess you could make an argument that Witcher 3 was more a CCG for some people). I just couldn't conceive of multiple games working without at least a three-figure budget and a very strict plan. To be honest, I never knew Chris Roberts was out of gaming for a long time. Nostalgia and lack of games is one hell of a force.

I did fund Shadowrun Returns and Wasteland, but I'm really picky about the projects I back and I've only been burned once for $5 (some haunted house turn based strategy game with a fun art style. I forget, but I think they lost someone or someone's contract ran out or something. The money was refunded as I recall). I also think something will be released. And that something will be celebrated, no matter how much of a hot garbage mess it is. People who spend vast amounts of money will convince themselves it is what they wanted. You aren't going to change those minds. I think everyone else will just stare at the train wreck.

As far as it is now, it is pretty clearly a Ponzi Scheme to me. It needs more and more cash to exist and even has early adopters profiting off of late adopters with the grey market.

Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:17

Chair In A Basket: Aug 6, 2005; I'm basically Jesus.; Nap Ghost

Nicholas posted:

Chris Roberts about to be the second coke machine that Derek Smart has beat up

this was from monday but whoa

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:18

Incombibulator: Dec 9, 2014; I'm ready for my close-up
Ms. Gardiner...; Grimey Drawer

EminusSleepus posted:

where is Ben? the invisible elephant in the room?

They are inside :lesnick:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:28

Kakarot: Jul 20, 2013; by zen death robot; Buglord

Decrepus posted:

How many people are you threatening to sue?

Everyone against our clan

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:30

ColHannibal: Sep 17, 2007

We invite you all over to Elite Dangerous, we actually have a game you can play!

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:37

Szcwczuk: Dec 20, 2011; I ruin everything

ColHannibal posted:

We invite you all over to Elite Dangerous, we actually have a game you can play!

Guess you could call it that.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:39

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

ColHannibal posted:

We invite you all over to Elite Dangerous, we actually have a game you can play!

When it has the same features Elite: Frontier First Encounter had give me a call.

Still can't believe it shipped without planets working.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:39

cl_gibcount 9999: Aug 15, 2002

Decrepus posted:

Can we get a Dsmart clan tag?

if there's anything that needs to be released, it's this

pls

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:53

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nsgre/there_is_a_growing_number_of_illinformed_people/

quote:

I keep seeing this notion pop up that CIG should show us their books because they have our money. THIS IS AN INCORRECT ENTITLED OPINION. When you donate/invest into any endeavor (wink), that money given is no longer your money, it belongs to the company/charity/organization you gave it to.
If you wanted to be able to see the books of the company at any time, then you should've made sure that part of the deal when you invested (as some companies do allow investors to have access to their numbers). If that wasn't part of the deal when your money was handed over, then it is naive to think that just because you gave them money entitles you to their company information.

That being said, CIG has gone to mind numbingly great lengths to be as open to the community that supports it. They share so much more than any game developer ever would (and in a way, they�re paying for it with this drama). Do they share everything? No. Is that cause to give suspicion? Of course not.
Chris Roberts is an experienced executive. He has many many years in game development and movie development (which is very similar). I'm surprised at how many armchair CEO (borrowing the phrase from CR) there are who think they know what's best for a company they know nothing about, or think that because this project is a crowdfunded project that we are entitled to every aspect of the company on demand.

Here is the reality of it, there are five possible outcomes

The Project Runs out of money - This is always a possibility, and is one of the risks investors take

The game finishes, but is not received well (a bad game) - Again, this is always a possibility when you take the risk of investment. There are many games out there that sadly fall under this category.

The Game finishes and breaks even - In many cases this is a semi-win. At this point you've passed the point of losing money on an enterprise and have at least broken even. From a game perspective this isn't too bad of an end result. We have a game, and the company that developed it will either try to make it better (another risk) or move on.

The game finishes and makes profit - This is what I would consider a great achievement for any game. Chances are if a game makes profit then it�s a good sign for your game. This will put you in a better position to add content, find ways to make it better, or move onto the next thing.

The game finishes and is a MASSIVE hit - Wing Commander all over again. Not only a win/win, but given the circumstances a major win for the PC space game genre. This is what we�re all hoping for.

There is a sixth possibility, but it�s so outlandish and ignorant that only to those with an agenda would even consider it a possibility at this point.

It's a con, and CR is laughing all the way to the bank - This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If CR did this he would be ruined, crowd funding games would never be an option again (as it would be forever be considered a investment scheme), and it would possibly kill the space sim genre forever. This also makes no sense because CR is not a greedy money grubbing type of person, he's an artist, a creator, a visionary, and it goes against his nature to behave in a way to be so dishonest on this level. The only way this becomes an even small change of a possibility is if he invested so much of his own money that if SC failed he would also be financially ruined. (I can hear some people screaming "BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING NOW") To this I'd like to point out this is also what people would say if they're trying to sabotage the project for their own personal reasons.

It all boils down to this, when you donate/invest you do so with the understanding of the risk of (not only) not seeing any returns from your investment, but lose all of your investment. To those who think that because you donated money gives you the right to see CIG's books, or think that the funds raised by CIG is "public money", you are absolutely 100% in error. To those who are falling for the fear mongering, SACK UP! If you put so much money on the line (the amount is different for each person) that failure would ruin you, then you shouldn't have donated/invested in the first place, and the fault becomes your own.

edit: spelling, grammar, format.
edit 2: Changed Ponzi Scheme.
edit 3: used the edit button to correct a missed opportunity to use a pun. Thanks guys for pointing it out.

update Just to point out, I'm fully aware that crowdfunding or donating is not the same thing as investing. I used the phrase "investing" as a tool to help people draw connections to help people adopt the mindset a real investor has. I also used the phrase because to many of us this is an investment (albeit a non-traditional one), where the returns are the future fun we'll be having. As gamers when we put money down in the form of crowdfunding, we tend to think of it as an investment (as we should), it has all the characteristics of an investment. Money down, great hopes of a return (in this case in the form of entertainment utility), and instead of equity in the company, we get equity in the game (in the form of ships). So to all the professional investors out there who are cringing at my usage of the word "investment", I'll ask you cut me a little slack and bare with me.

update2 wow, there are a small number of you who are being militant about NOT seeing Star Citizen as some sort of investment. For some reason it really bothers you and I don't understand why, especially when I've explained why I used the word. If it really bothers you that much, every time you see the word "investment" or some other form of the word, replace it with "donation". If that doesn't calm your little souls then I'll guess I'll have to live with it.

We're all ill informed. :downsbravo:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:02

Ursine Catastrophe: Nov 9, 2009; It's a lovely morning in the void and you are a horrible lady-in-waiting.

don't ask how i know; Dinosaur Gum

cl_gibcount 9999 posted:

if there's anything that needs to be released, it's this

pls

hell yeah

no_recall posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nsgre/there_is_a_growing_number_of_illinformed_people/

We're all ill informed.

you're ~~buying~~ ~~pledging~~ ~~investing~~ buying

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:05

SelenicMartian: Sep 14, 2013; Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

no_recall posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nsgre/there_is_a_growing_number_of_illinformed_people/

We're all ill informed.

"edit 3: used the edit button to correct a missed opportunity to use a pun. Thanks guys for pointing it out."

"to many of us this is an investment where the returns are the future fun we'll be having"
Why wait?

"instead of equity in the company, we get equity in the game"

"So to all the professional investors out there who are cringing at my usage of the word "investment", I'll ask you cut me a little slack and bare with me."
Another nudist?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:06

no_recall: Aug 17, 2015; Lipstick Apathy

SelenicMartian posted:

"edit 3: used the edit button to correct a missed opportunity to use a pun. Thanks guys for pointing it out."

"to many of us this is an investment where the returns are the future fun we'll be having"
Why wait?

"instead of equity in the company, we get equity in the game"

"So to all the professional investors out there who are cringing at my usage of the word "investment", I'll ask you cut me a little slack and bare with me."
Another nudist?

Investing real money in return for virtual equities in a game that doesn't exist.

We do have the economic stuff on paper though dated 2013. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/13128-The-Star-Citizen-Economy

quote:

Star Citizen is, at its heart, a vast living world that combines a remarkably detailed space combat simulation with an equally in-depth model of the economy of a star-spanning empire.

This is CitizenEcons 101. See you in the 'verse.

Edit: source

no_recall fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:10

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

no_recall posted:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nsgre/there_is_a_growing_number_of_illinformed_people/

When you donate/invest into any endeavor (wink), that money given is no longer your money, it belongs to the company/charity/organization you gave it to.

wait a minute, why are you winking? wink twice if croberts is holding you hostage.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:27

Full Metal Boxers: Feb 20, 2007; COME LITTLE BITCOIN.... COME MY WAY.....IN THE MID NIGHT HOUR... I YELL NO NO NO... WITH A REBEL YELL I YELL MORE MORE MORE.... BIT COIN... I WANT TO FUCK YOU

peter gabriel posted:

This has got me thinking now and I have a Samsung phone and laptop as well.
This is hosed up

peter gabriel: Samsung Citizen

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:30

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

Decrepus posted:

Can we get a Dsmart clan tag?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:43

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

What would that even look like

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:44

Gryphon0468: Oct 3, 2015; ASK ME IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO SUCK OFF CHRIS ROBERTS

Tokamak posted:

wait a minute, why are you winking? wink twice if croberts is holding you hostage.

Because endeavor is the name of the new ship released recently.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:45

jaegerx: Sep 10, 2012; Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!

D_Smart posted:

Oh that was you? It was forwarded to me and I was a bit skeptical that someone was just trolling me. Will sort it out. No worries.

Absolutely not. I bought bc3000ad back when it was on floppies. You helped me get my refund back from this debacle. I'd love one.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:46

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

jaegerx posted:

Absolutely not. I bought bc3000ad back when it was on floppies. You helped me get my refund back from this debacle. I'd love one.

I still had the original box, manual, everything, threw it all a way on a house cleaning this summer. If only I had known I'd soon be in the presence of the Master, 19 years and then I lost my faith in the final stretch. :negative:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:54

SirTagz: Feb 25, 2014

jaegerx posted:

Absolutely not. I bought bc3000ad back when it was on floppies. You helped me get my refund back from this debacle. I'd love one.

Was it ever on floppies? DS scammed me of my money when it came out but as I remember it was on a CD.

BTW Derek, I'd still love a refund. I'd be OK with 25 cents on a dollar - just buy me an avatar here.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:56

Mekchu: Apr 10, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

CashEnsign posted:

Hendrik reminded me of the time he did a write up on the grey market on TMC and all the whales lost their poo poo because "grrr goons ruin everything." Good times.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/68600/article-by-themittani-com-exploring-star-citizen-s-grey-market

Man looking back on that thread brought some good laughs I forgot about.

I especially liked being told I should be banned for that article. Not from the forums, but from the game that still doesn't exist.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:02

MeLKoR: Dec 23, 2004; by FactsAreUseless

SirTagz posted:

Was it ever on floppies? DS scammed me of my money when it came out but as I remember it was on a CD.

BTW Derek, I'd still love a refund. I'd be OK with 25 cents on a dollar - just buy me an avatar here.

It was a CD.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:02

lauresh: Jun 1, 2013; What are we having for dinner?

At Citizen Con roberts will be announcing that he's opening a chain of fast food outlets called Burger Citizen. Kickstart now for concept art of the burgers.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:08

jaegerx: Sep 10, 2012; Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!

SirTagz posted:

Was it ever on floppies? DS scammed me of my money when it came out but as I remember it was on a CD.

BTW Derek, I'd still love a refund. I'd be OK with 25 cents on a dollar - just buy me an avatar here.

Yes, it was like 12 floppy disks. It got released around 96 or so and cdroms were still those weird carosel carry case things.

e: windows 95 was on floppies as well. It was like 25 or so.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:08

TheHoosier: Dec 30, 2004; The fuck, Graham?!

Someone more talented than me should take the Metal Gear FOX logo, change the animal to a whale, and replace the letters with C I G

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:09

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 23:38

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

Gryphon0468 posted:

Because endeavor is the name of the new ship released recently.

god drat it :negative:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:09

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