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  • Locked thread
Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
That is a sickening number of vassals.

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Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Tsyni posted:

You have no idea:



The greatest borders known to man.

You're the Jackson Pollock of map painting games.

e: loving SPANISH KAMCHATKA

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.


:wtc:

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Jastiger posted:

Thanks for the tips. I'm still frustrated and struggling. Its like I take 2 steps forward then 3 back. Finally get the Teutonic spots as Poland. Then lol rebellion thats bigger than any army ever fielded yet, enjoy that.
Just for you I did a thing. A fair warning, these shots are going to be all out of order if you check the dates , but it's hard to know what stuff to take screenshots of in the moment. I'm also not going for any crazy strategies, just a very vanilla Poland opening. And if I'm making it look way easier than your experience, that's because I have >1200 hours played, plus probably nearly that much on EU3. Most of this is second nature to me.



Poland, 1444. As the game opens, Poland starts off in a pretty commanding position in Europe. As one of the larger powers she controls a respectable army and some reasonably wealthy lands. Trouble is she lacks a proper King. This is because our foolish former King was slain in the Battle of Varna just the day before the game opens. So first things first, we need to find ourselves a King. The ideal candidate would be Casimir (or Kazimierz as proper Poles would probably prefer), our dead King's brother, and the current Grand Duke of Lithuania. If Casimir were to become King of Poland as well, he would be perhaps the strongest ruler in Europe. But first we'll need to ensure our internal stability, and obtain enough diplomatic power to convince our nobles that this is a good deal.

So right off the bat, I hire a 2 star Diplomatic Advisor, and a 1 star Administrative Advisor, as that's what I can afford. In addition, I form alliances with Lithuania (very temporary, but doesn't hurt) and Brandenburg, because they also hate the TO. I warn Pommerania so they can't steal anything from the TO. Then I send my diplomats to Improve Relations with those two, plus Bohemia, because they're as good as any (there's actually some tricky stuff you can pull off with HRE membership if the random number generator goes your way, but it didn't here). I also split my 20k men into two even stacks of 10k men, and spread them out a bit so I don't lose any manpower to attrition during the winter.


Some 14 months later, I've boosted my stability by 1, and accrued the 100 diplomatic points I need to take the decision.


You might have noticed that Lithuania was actually at war with the TO there; they were supporting Sweden in a War of Independence against Denmark, a struggle which I care not at all about. After I take the decision, Lithuania becomes a junior partner under me, meaning I control their foreign policy. They sign an automatic white peace with the TO, and everyone goes home. Around this time I also fire the two star diplomatic advisor I hired, because he's expensive. I then hired a one star guy instead.


Shortly after forming the union I get the Elective Monarchy event which unlocks a special dynamic for Poland, but that's unlocked by the Res Publica DLC I think, so I won't say any more about it.

Before going further, I'll stop and talk about rebels for a second. As you're well aware, you start with a small amount of unrest in the south of Poland, mostly because of their differences of opinion on the topic of religion.



I could try and convert them, but it would take ages, and do a really good job of pissing them off (it's +6 to unrest for having an active missionary in a province). So for now I'll just ignore them. Once their revolt progress ticks up above 50%, I'll revisit that decision, but for now it's a non-issue. I'll get bonuses soon to missionary strength soon enough, which will make them easier to deal with (or ignore, depending on idea picks).


Next on the menu is dealing with the Teutonic Order, because they have land I want. I take the Conquer Western Prussia mission, which requires me to take the four highlight provinces:


Checking out the TO's diplomatic situation, we see they're allied to Mecklenburg, the Livonian Order, and Sweden. Mecklenburg commands an army of 6 thousand, so I don't care at all about them. The Livonian Order has something like 14k, which is manageable. Sweden is busy fighting the aforementioned war against Denmark, so the odds of them actually contributing to this war seem remote. On my side I have Brandenburg, who are themselves pretty insignificant (but will be a powerhouse later in the game), but they'll take care of their rival Mecklenburg for me at least. I could also have allied with Bohemia, and they would have thrown 110% into beating the TO up for no gain, but for illustrative purposes I chose not to. Not shown are my subjects: Lithuania, Mazovia and Moldavia, who will make all the difference. Lithuania in particular is very powerful, while the little guys will carry out seiges for me while I preserve my manpower.

Anyway, I declare a war of Conquest to take Marienburg. The exact province you chose doesn't really matter here, the Cassus Belli is the same in any case. Also at some point I added 1 cav and 1 inf into each of my armies, giving me two 8/4/0 stacks. Not particularly great army composition, but flexible, and good enough.


Rather than lead the charge myself, I sat back with my armies and let Mazovia get down to some sieges. I keep my armies ready nearby, in case a major battle breaks out. I also want to keep a close eye on Plock; because Mazovia is so poor, they don't garrison the fort there, meaning it has a 100% chance to fall in just one siege tick. But if it falls it will become garrisoned, and then I'd have to spend more effort to take it back. So best not to let it fall in the first place.


Here we see some enemy armies that wandered into Lithuania to start sieges there. Before I can even really move to help, Lithuania has already won.


Instead, I commit my idle 12 stack to help the Mazovian siege army, who are under attack by a Teutonic army. My King-General rolled with some pretty decent stats (shock is pretty much the only attribute that matters this early in the game), and we win an easy victory over the crusaders.


The battle has left Mazovia's army too weak to properly besiege the fort in Osterode though, so I decide to round up some dudes to lend a hand. Rather than use my troops and my manpower, I hire three regiments of mercenary infantry, and send them. Preserving your manpower is a huge deal, particularly in the early game. If your manpower hits zero, it demands immediate attention, and the consequences can be dire.


A few more battles are fought during the war, none of them all that significant. But here we see a classic mistake. Having just won a battle in Vilnius, I get too big for my britches and move to head off the Teutonic army moving into Trakai. Since my guys just fought a battle, they are at reduced morale; close to half in this particular case. You can see it in the bar to the right of the unit size number. But before I realize my mistake, everybody is already half way there, and there's no turning back.



It's pretty clear I'm going to lose that one, so I retreat.


Sensing blood in the water, Brandenburg and Lithuania abandon their sieges and come attack the Teutonic armies. The Teutons now find themselves in the case where they lack morale, and when their army runs out of morale completely during the first four battle cycles, it is completely wiped out by the combined Brandenburg-Lithuanian force. Here is where quantitative superiority really shows in EU4. It's possible to use sacrificial armies to wear down your enemies morale, retreat (meaning they stay in place), and then attack them with a fresh army from a nearby province. Eventually you'll catch them with near-zero morale, and you'll wipe them out completely. It can be very expensive in terms of manpower, but also a great way to knock out a qualitatively superior opponent. As it happens, this wasn't intentional at all, just a happy coincidence.


The rest of the war is pretty uninteresting. No major battles, just long sieges. My vassals capture Mecklenburg's capital, so I peace out with them for some war reparations and 23 ducats. Lithuania occupies most of the Livonian order, so I take two provinces from them, and give them to Lithuania (again, through the Art of War mechanic). Sweden is off fighting Denmark, and I encounter exactly none of their troops. I let the allies siege down the rest of the TO (again, preserving my manpower, siege attrition is very painful). I end the war with this deal, fulfilling my mission. I don't take Danzig, just because there'll be another mission to take it in a few years, and Pommerania can't take it because of the warning I send earlier. Denmark sometimes attempts to grab it, but I can beat Denmark just as easily as the TO, so no problem if that comes up.


Next up, start coring the provinces I've taken. I could wait for war exhaustion to tick down, but we're talking about a savings of 10 points or so, so I don't bother.


I also have a lot of unrest in those provinces. As I am also pretty low on manpower at this point, I decide it's better if I don't have to fight a bunch of rebels, and raise the autonomy level in all four captured provinces for -10 unrest. I'll get less income from them, but I'd rather save the manpower. There's still a bit of residual unrest, but that will tick down over the next 3 years or so as the Separatism wears off.


Right around this point, I notice the revolt progress in Volhynia has reached 50% or so, so I decide to address that too.


I raise autonomy in the two poorer provinces, and station my armies in the other two, eliminating the unrest from this type of rebels. As long as all provinces of that rebel type have <0 unrest, the revolt progress will tick down to zero, 10%/month. Once it reaches zero, I'll probably move the armies back north to quell unrest there. In this case, I think I could have split my armies up a bit more to avoid raising autonomy at all, but not a huge loss.


I also start to annex Mazovia. That'll free up a Diplomatic Relations slot, and allow me to move my capital to Warsaw, which is both more strategically secure, and the decision to do so gives some extra province development.


And with that, I'm done with my little tutorial. My next focus would probably by Muscovy: they've eaten a big chunk of Kazan while I was busy. This makes them look pretty fiercesome, but those lands are also Sunni and non-Russian culture, so they'll be dealing with lots of rebels in the near future. Once I recover some manpower, they'll make a nice target.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Oct 7, 2015

buglord
Jul 31, 2010

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Buglord
I bullied another country as Mother Russia and took about 7 rich provinces from them because it seemed like there was no penalty. Now I understand the perils of overextension. All my military forces are having to keep watch because these people do not want to be controlled by a russian orthodox culture. Also because I took so much land, all neighbors are pissed and the game said something about some countries teaming up to take down a common enemy which was probably me if I didn't close the window so quickly.

fermun
Nov 4, 2009

Jastiger posted:

Thanks for the tips. I'm still frustrated and struggling. Its like I take 2 steps forward then 3 back. Finally get the Teutonic spots as Poland. Then lol rebellion thats bigger than any army ever fielded yet, enjoy that.

Get rebellion under control. Lol sorry, looks like everyone is going to ally against you and start picking off territories.

Ok finally got everything secure. Oh Lol, here is an event that lowers your stability no matter what, restarting the whole thing over again.

Then I look online and people have the entirety of Europe as Poland and I'm just like how in the hell.

I don't know if this is DLC-locked or not, are you able to increase/decrease autonomy in provinces? The typical strategy with provinces you gain in conquest is either to station a large army in the area or to go through increasing local autonomy province by province so that you only earn a small bit from the province but don't have to worry about keeping a garrison there.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

If you've got manpower to spare, it's usually better to just let the provinces revolt, then they get -20 RR for the next 5 years.

Obliterati
Nov 13, 2012

Pain is inevitable.
Suffering is optional.
Thunderdome is forever.


Lucky Lucca is murder.



I hate snaking but it's gotta be done.





Some tips:

- This is another one of those achievements where your opening is critical. Italy is always a mess of rivalries so just rival your immediate neighbours and prioritise Florence. The Pope often makes a good ally. There's the off-chance Austria will offer you Free City status right off the bat but it's a poisoned chalice: you're not big enough as an OPM to reliably control any vassals you form as Lucca is pretty poor by Italian standards. Concentrate on the Genoa node medium-term as this is going to make you bonkers money eventually. Be very very careful in Italy - you've got to take the opportunities that come, rather than just grabbing what you want. Try to keep land barriers between you and major powers.

- For the love of God suck up to France or Spain no matter how dumb they get. I made the mistake of not honouring a couple of clearly suicidal CTAs from each and I'd have been better off getting 100%'d. France spent about 300 years loving me constantly. I at least managed to win Spain back after conceding Corsica! The trust modifer is what will keep your allies on board. For the last two hundred years I had GB, massive Emperor Austria and a Spain that inherited all of Burgundy at my back, maintained by joining every goddamn war. Shifting to Noble Republic will give you the ability to RM, so do this always. Also, probably don't convert to Reformed like I did, as this will piss off all your massively Catholic buddies (who you need).

- Take Exploration as your second idea set, so you'll be able to jump to Africa from Corsica. Move fast enough and you'll be able to grab all the hopping points your competitors would otherwise get, which will save you a lot of hassle when you land in India. France was never able to get beyond Madagascar, preferring to spend fifty years repeatedly declaring on a colossal Bahmanis and never actually send over troops (I allied Bahmanis as support in India and whilst this meant ten years of my European holidings all occupied by France, hiting the WE cap and flirting with disasters, it also meant that France didn't get to take 60% out of me and instead got 10%, so gently caress 'em). If you take Plutocratic as your first, you'll get your hands on the +.2 RT policy really quickly, which is good for building up god-rulers.

- Don't be afraid to lose wars - you will lose some, you're Lucca. So long as you hold on in Italy long enough to get dug in into South Africa you should be fine, and even if France comes calling (as they did, taking old Genoa and swathes of West Africa) you can push them back with good allies and better timing. Italians seem more willing to band together against exterior threats than I remember.

- It might be worth grabbing CNs in less popular locations for the extra merchants, as even with trade company boosts you're a long straggling trade empire that has to go around Africa (unless you want to break Mamluks, which wasn't on the table this game).

- You'll probably have to noCB war to land somewhere in India - I hit 4PM Pegu and managed to land on the border of the guys I'd need to kill - in this case Bengal. Took some alliance finagling as Bahmanis were allied to Bengal, but the options were there. Once you're established on the continent, just drive staight for your objective. Move fast - Indians aren't afraid to westernise off you and whilst that's a good time to hit them, westernised Indians is bad news.

Obliterati fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Oct 7, 2015

Sekenr
Dec 12, 2013




What exactly is the benefit of getting your candidate on the throne of another country's elective monarchy?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013



What the hell? My troops are unable to move to Kashdir thanks to the fortress in Fez, but the Mamluk's troops can? Even though the mamluk is my vassal? Fortress movement limitations make no sense.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME
You can exit a province adjacent to a fort via the province you came in. Maybe the Mamluks entered Figuig from Kasdir, and you came in from Oujda?

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Deltasquid posted:

You can exit a province adjacent to a fort via the province you came in. Maybe the Mamluks entered Figuig from Kasdir, and you came in from Oujda?

That is what happened. It's still really unintuitive imo.

Allyn
Sep 4, 2007

I love Charlie from Busted!

Sekenr posted:

What exactly is the benefit of getting your candidate on the throne of another country's elective monarchy?

You get a big relations boost with Poland/PLC and 50~ of each monarch point type (maybe up to 100?).

Sorced
Nov 5, 2009

Sekenr posted:

What exactly is the benefit of getting your candidate on the throne of another country's elective monarchy?

25 Prestige, 10 Legitimacy, a very large slowly decaying relations boost and 2 years worth of monarch points based on the elected kings stats.

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

PittTheElder posted:

Just for you I did a thing. A fair warning, these shots are going to be all out of order if you check the dates , but it's hard to know what stuff to take screenshots of in the moment. I'm also not going for any crazy strategies, just a very vanilla Poland opening. And if I'm making it look way easier than your experience, that's because I have >1200 hours played, plus probably nearly that much on EU3. Most of this is second nature to me.



Poland, 1444. As the game opens, Poland starts off in a pretty commanding position in Europe. As one of the larger powers she controls a respectable army and some reasonably wealthy lands. Trouble is she lacks a proper King. This is because our foolish former King was slain in the Battle of Varna just the day before the game opens. So first things first, we need to find ourselves a King. The ideal candidate would be Casimir (or Kazimierz as proper Poles would probably prefer), our dead King's brother, and the current Grand Duke of Lithuania. If Casimir were to become King of Poland as well, he would be perhaps the strongest ruler in Europe. But first we'll need to ensure our internal stability, and obtain enough diplomatic power to convince our nobles that this is a good deal.

So right off the bat, I hire a 2 star Diplomatic Advisor, and a 1 star Administrative Advisor, as that's what I can afford. In addition, I form alliances with Lithuania (very temporary, but doesn't hurt) and Brandenburg, because they also hate the TO. I warn Pommerania so they can't steal anything from the TO. Then I send my diplomats to Improve Relations with those two, plus Bohemia, because they're as good as any (there's actually some tricky stuff you can pull off with HRE membership if the random number generator goes your way, but it didn't here). I also split my 20k men into two even stacks of 10k men, and spread them out a bit so I don't lose any manpower to attrition during the winter.


Some 14 months later, I've boosted my stability by 1, and accrued the 100 diplomatic points I need to take the decision.


You might have noticed that Lithuania was actually at war with the TO there; they were supporting Sweden in a War of Independence against Denmark, a struggle which I care not at all about. After I take the decision, Lithuania becomes a junior partner under me, meaning I control their foreign policy. They sign an automatic white peace with the TO, and everyone goes home. Around this time I also fire the two star diplomatic advisor I hired, because he's expensive. I then hired a one star guy instead.


Shortly after forming the union I get the Elective Monarchy event which unlocks a special dynamic for Poland, but that's unlocked by the Res Publica DLC I think, so I won't say any more about it.

Before going further, I'll stop and talk about rebels for a second. As you're well aware, you start with a small amount of unrest in the south of Poland, mostly because of their differences of opinion on the topic of religion.



I could try and convert them, but it would take ages, and do a really good job of pissing them off (it's +6 to unrest for having an active missionary in a province). So for now I'll just ignore them. Once their revolt progress ticks up above 50%, I'll revisit that decision, but for now it's a non-issue. I'll get bonuses soon to missionary strength soon enough, which will make them easier to deal with (or ignore, depending on idea picks).


Next on the menu is dealing with the Teutonic Order, because they have land I want. I take the Conquer Western Prussia mission, which requires me to take the four highlight provinces:


Checking out the TO's diplomatic situation, we see they're allied to Mecklenburg, the Livonian Order, and Sweden. Mecklenburg commands an army of 6 thousand, so I don't care at all about them. The Livonian Order has something like 14k, which is manageable. Sweden is busy fighting the aforementioned war against Denmark, so the odds of them actually contributing to this war seem remote. On my side I have Brandenburg, who are themselves pretty insignificant (but will be a powerhouse later in the game), but they'll take care of their rival Mecklenburg for me at least. I could also have allied with Bohemia, and they would have thrown 110% into beating the TO up for no gain, but for illustrative purposes I chose not to. Not shown are my subjects: Lithuania, Mazovia and Moldavia, who will make all the difference. Lithuania in particular is very powerful, while the little guys will carry out seiges for me while I preserve my manpower.

Anyway, I declare a war of Conquest to take Marienburg. The exact province you chose doesn't really matter here, the Cassus Belli is the same in any case. Also at some point I added 1 cav and 1 inf into each of my armies, giving me two 8/4/0 stacks. Not particularly great army composition, but flexible, and good enough.


Rather than lead the charge myself, I sat back with my armies and let Mazovia get down to some sieges. I keep my armies ready nearby, in case a major battle breaks out. I also want to keep a close eye on Plock; because Mazovia is so poor, they don't garrison the fort there, meaning it has a 100% chance to fall in just one siege tick. But if it falls it will become garrisoned, and then I'd have to spend more effort to take it back. So best not to let it fall in the first place.


Here we see some enemy armies that wandered into Lithuania to start sieges there. Before I can even really move to help, Lithuania has already won.


Instead, I commit my idle 12 stack to help the Mazovian siege army, who are under attack by a Teutonic army. My King-General rolled with some pretty decent stats (shock is pretty much the only attribute that matters this early in the game), and we win an easy victory over the crusaders.


The battle has left Mazovia's army too weak to properly besiege the fort in Osterode though, so I decide to round up some dudes to lend a hand. Rather than use my troops and my manpower, I hire three regiments of mercenary infantry, and send them. Preserving your manpower is a huge deal, particularly in the early game. If your manpower hits zero, it demands immediate attention, and the consequences can be dire.


A few more battles are fought during the war, none of them all that significant. But here we see a classic mistake. Having just won a battle in Vilnius, I get too big for my britches and move to head off the Teutonic army moving into Trakai. Since my guys just fought a battle, they are at reduced morale; close to half in this particular case. You can see it in the bar to the right of the unit size number. But before I realize my mistake, everybody is already half way there, and there's no turning back.



It's pretty clear I'm going to lose that one, so I retreat.


Sensing blood in the water, Brandenburg and Lithuania abandon their sieges and come attack the Teutonic armies. The Teutons now find themselves in the case where they lack morale, and when their army runs out of morale completely during the first four battle cycles, it is completely wiped out by the combined Brandenburg-Lithuanian force. Here is where quantitative superiority really shows in EU4. It's possible to use sacrificial armies to wear down your enemies morale, retreat (meaning they stay in place), and then attack them with a fresh army from a nearby province. Eventually you'll catch them with near-zero morale, and you'll wipe them out completely. It can be very expensive in terms of manpower, but also a great way to knock out a qualitatively superior opponent. As it happens, this wasn't intentional at all, just a happy coincidence.


The rest of the war is pretty uninteresting. No major battles, just long sieges. My vassals capture Mecklenburg's capital, so I peace out with them for some war reparations and 23 ducats. Lithuania occupies most of the Livonian order, so I take two provinces from them, and give them to Lithuania (again, through the Art of War mechanic). Sweden is off fighting Denmark, and I encounter exactly none of their troops. I let the allies siege down the rest of the TO (again, preserving my manpower, siege attrition is very painful). I end the war with this deal, fulfilling my mission. I don't take Danzig, just because there'll be another mission to take it in a few years, and Pommerania can't take it because of the warning I send earlier. Denmark sometimes attempts to grab it, but I can beat Denmark just as easily as the TO, so no problem if that comes up.


Next up, start coring the provinces I've taken. I could wait for war exhaustion to tick down, but we're talking about a savings of 10 points or so, so I don't bother.


I also have a lot of unrest in those provinces. As I am also pretty low on manpower at this point, I decide it's better if I don't have to fight a bunch of rebels, and raise the autonomy level in all four captured provinces for -10 unrest. I'll get less income from them, but I'd rather save the manpower. There's still a bit of residual unrest, but that will tick down over the next 3 years or so as the Separatism wears off.


Right around this point, I notice the revolt progress in Volhynia has reached 50% or so, so I decide to address that too.


I raise autonomy in the two poorer provinces, and station my armies in the other two, eliminating the unrest from this type of rebels. As long as all provinces of that rebel type have <0 unrest, the revolt progress will tick down to zero, 10%/month. Once it reaches zero, I'll probably move the armies back north to quell unrest there. In this case, I think I could have split my armies up a bit more to avoid raising autonomy at all, but not a huge loss.


I also start to annex Mazovia. That'll free up a Diplomatic Relations slot, and allow me to move my capital to Warsaw, which is both more strategically secure, and the decision to do so gives some extra province development.


And with that, I'm done with my little tutorial. My next focus would probably by Muscovy: they've eaten a big chunk of Kazan while I was busy. This makes them look pretty fiercesome, but those lands are also Sunni and non-Russian culture, so they'll be dealing with lots of rebels in the near future. Once I recover some manpower, they'll make a nice target.


Thats pretty awesome. Thanks for that, it is helpful!

A few questions: How dependent is your strategy upon Lithuania taking some of the LO provinces? I've played that war a few times and even when I win, Lithuania does NOT get anything other than helping me siege some of the Teutonic Order and tends to suicide against superior stacks.

Is it better to wait until after the war to integrate Mazovia or before?

If Manpower reaches 0, this means every gain of Manpower you get is sent immediately to the front lines, right? Regardless of where they are?

What factors contribute to a stack wipe? Just going to 0 morale, or is there something else at play here? Sometimes I'll lose a battle and 11 of my 15 stacks will run away. Other times it may just disappear. What determines that?

TorakFade
Oct 3, 2006

I strongly disapprove


Jastiger posted:

What factors contribute to a stack wipe? Just going to 0 morale, or is there something else at play here? Sometimes I'll lose a battle and 11 of my 15 stacks will run away. Other times it may just disappear. What determines that?

If your army gets routed within the first phase of combat it leads to a wipe, I believe. This most often happens when they're at 0 morale for obvious reasons, but can also happen if you're severely outnumbered / very unlucky with your first roll in bad terrain and against a good commander.

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



TorakFade posted:

If your army gets routed within the first phase of combat it leads to a wipe, I believe. This most often happens when they're at 0 morale for obvious reasons, but can also happen if you're severely outnumbered / very unlucky with your first roll in bad terrain and against a good commander.

The max morale (not current morale) of an army determines how much morale damage they inflict, so make sure you pay attention to the opposing force's morale because especially in the early game if they out-morale you too much they'll start stackwiping your units left and right.

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

TorakFade posted:

If your army gets routed within the first phase of combat it leads to a wipe, I believe. This most often happens when they're at 0 morale for obvious reasons, but can also happen if you're severely outnumbered / very unlucky with your first roll in bad terrain and against a good commander.

You will also instantly get stackwiped if your army is ever 1/10 the size of the enemy army. So if you have ten stacks of 1 regiment each, don't just send them all charging at an enemy 10-stack because they will arrive one at a time and all instantly die. Instead, merge them into one stack of 10 regiments first.

Tendronai
May 7, 2008

My worst nightmare. It's a dream I have. I'm in a square cell, glass walls, just me and a little castle.
The reverse is true for them as well - if you see solo regiment stacks running around or just made, bring one of your 10+ armies and smash them instantly.

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME
A less obvious example of a stack wipe is when they have nowhere left to retreat to. I've had stacks get beaten while they were besieging forts and disappear because the fort's zone of control prevented them from going anywhere else. This can happen mostly if you do a naval invasion straight on a coastal province with a fort, or if the only route to flee is a strait blocked by a navy (This can happen in Denmark, or those islands between Iran and Arabia, etc)

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Jastiger posted:

What factors contribute to a stack wipe? Just going to 0 morale, or is there something else at play here? Sometimes I'll lose a battle and 11 of my 15 stacks will run away. Other times it may just disappear. What determines that?

TorakFade posted:

If your army gets routed within the first phase of combat it leads to a wipe, I believe. This most often happens when they're at 0 morale for obvious reasons, but can also happen if you're severely outnumbered / very unlucky with your first roll in bad terrain and against a good commander.

Just to touch on this a bit more. The two parts of the combat phase are Fire and then Shock, and they take 3 days each, so if you get to zero moral before 6 days then there is a stack wipe. This is also the time required before you can retreat. You'll notice a little white flag with a cross through it in the...top left of the combat window, but after six days you'll be able to retreat...this can be beneficial if you know you're going to lose and want to regroup immediately.

Deltasquid posted:

A less obvious example of a stack wipe is when they have nowhere left to retreat to. I've had stacks get beaten while they were besieging forts and disappear because the fort's zone of control prevented them from going anywhere else. This can happen mostly if you do a naval invasion straight on a coastal province with a fort, or if the only route to flee is a strait blocked by a navy (This can happen in Denmark, or those islands between Iran and Arabia, etc)

This is incredibly powerful and a great way to have success over someone like the Ottoman's. Here's an example:

Say you've sieged/own Constantinople, but the Ottomans keep sending their 100 stack at you. If you can get 1 ship into the port of Constantinople, even if they have 80 galleys outside, once you defeat their army you time your ship to arrive the day before the retreating army is set to cross the straight, your ship will lose immediately, but will blockade the port for a day and their army will have nowhere to go, so they'll go back into battle with the army you have in Constantinople and immediately wipe. It's very satisfying.

They won't retreat to a blockaded path, so make sure your ship is at port even if there is no Ottoman navy, and then wait until they start retreating across the straight and send your navy out to blockade.

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


Any strategies in battling the Commonwealth as Russia?

I had an incredibly unlucky series of rulers so I am pretty behind due to tech and Commonwealth has become titanic, to say the least. Should I just forget about the West and go into Siberia? They already conquered Crimea :(

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless
How does fort stuff work? I notice I"ll take a province and then leave and it'll revert back to the original owners because of a fort. Also sometimes my units can't move because of a fort or something? I'm just confused on this.

Mygna
Sep 12, 2011
This took way too many restarts, but it's fairly nice when you finally succeed:



All hail Eirene II Palaiologos, Basilissa of Rome, Empress of Ethiopia, Protector of Kiev, Dulkadir and Gazikumukh, Conqueror of the Holy Places, Restorer of the Pentarchy (and aunt or something of Karl Palaiologos, archduke of Austria)!

DeeEmTee
Jan 29, 2005
Ugh, there's a lovely loving bug where allies can give away your provinces even if they peace out after you do.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Transmetropolitan posted:

Any strategies in battling the Commonwealth as Russia?

I had an incredibly unlucky series of rulers so I am pretty behind due to tech and Commonwealth has become titanic, to say the least. Should I just forget about the West and go into Siberia? They already conquered Crimea :(

In the west I think the Commonwealth can be scarier than France or the Ottoman's. I'd head east and west. What's Denmark/Sweden doing? I don't know the state of your armies, but you could potentially win a war against the Commonwealth with some scorched earth and winter attrition, and a nice string of forts. Make sure you are allied to the Ottomans or Austria or someone who can contribute a bit. Chances are they will go to war with someone big eventually(hopefully the Ottomans) and that's the time to strike. I play Ironman and always play it pretty safe so I'd probably wait until I absorbed the rest of the steppes and Scandinavia before I tried to take them on.

As an aside, denying Poland Danzig is key as Russia. In the crazy game I posted screen shots of Poland/Commonwealth was my best ally for a lot of the game, and they had gotten to Danzig super early, so I had to go through the HRE to Prague for westernization. Luckily Bohemia became the empieror and they weren't very strong so it was easy to eat a path. But, yeah, denying them Danzig makes things a lot easier.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

YF-23 posted:

If you haven't you should start following wiz on twitter. He posts cool stuff.



That's extremely good.

Also, huh:



That map mode menu had gotten a little overburdened.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Jastiger posted:

How does fort stuff work? I notice I"ll take a province and then leave and it'll revert back to the original owners because of a fort. Also sometimes my units can't move because of a fort or something? I'm just confused on this.

I was going to write out an explanation, but then I started confusing myself, so here, have this instead:

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_warfare#Forts

Specifically the Zone of Control section:

quote:

Unmothballed fort buildings (not counting the free fort level in the capital) provide a zone of control.

A zone of control restricts the movement of enemy armies through the province with the fort, and provinces immediately adjacent to it. After an enemy army enters a province within the zone of control, they can only move from there to two other provinces: the province containing the fort, and the province they came from. This means that forts form a barrier against enemy armies; if placed so that there's no way around the fort(s) the enemy is forced to siege one or more forts in order to get at the rest of one's country. This can provide time to muster up one's forces, or simply time for the enemy to get hurt by attrition while sieging. The Zone of control does not apply for occupied forts. An army who belongs/allied to the province owner can move on own territory even conquered forts without restrictions.

Unfortified provinces within the zone of control will also automatically be recaptured if the fort isn't under siege and the province is vacated for one month.

Gay Horney
Feb 10, 2013

by Reene

Transmetropolitan posted:

Any strategies in battling the Commonwealth as Russia?

I had an incredibly unlucky series of rulers so I am pretty behind due to tech and Commonwealth has become titanic, to say the least. Should I just forget about the West and go into Siberia? They already conquered Crimea :(

Just head in literally any direction that isn't up/to the left. Vassalize some hordes, get into that Samarkand trade node, start printing money. Head south from Afghanistan and into India too. Most of these territories will not only be worthless but an active liability if you conquer them directly so pretty much always be creating vassals and feeding them provinces, annexing them once their cores and such are no longer useful.
Once you've filled in to the coast as Russia start beating up on the Manchurians too.

A Commonwealth will almost certainly get drawn into a war vs the ottomans or a Baltic power or draw the wrath of the Empire. Just fortify your borders and expand elsewhere.

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

Tsyni posted:

I was going to write out an explanation, but then I started confusing myself, so here, have this instead:

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Land_warfare#Forts

Specifically the Zone of Control section:

Wow thats actually really useful and explains a lot. Thanks a lot for that. Now it all makes sense.

Maginot line not gonna happen here, then eh?

dead gay comedy forums
Oct 21, 2011


Tsyni posted:

In the west I think the Commonwealth can be scarier than France or the Ottoman's. I'd head east and west. What's Denmark/Sweden doing?

Denmark got obliterated by Pomerania and Sweden is allied with the PLC since day one.

Sharzak posted:

Just head in literally any direction that isn't up/to the left.

Doing that already, particularly so now that the Commonwealth allied itself with France :downs: I really wanted those East Slavic territories early, but I guess I'll have to sit that one out. I am allied with Austria, but I am not so sure if that will help me in the long term.

Tendronai
May 7, 2008

My worst nightmare. It's a dream I have. I'm in a square cell, glass walls, just me and a little castle.

Transmetropolitan posted:

Any strategies in battling the Commonwealth as Russia?

I had an incredibly unlucky series of rulers so I am pretty behind due to tech and Commonwealth has become titanic, to say the least. Should I just forget about the West and go into Siberia? They already conquered Crimea :(

If you're already that far behind, ignore them and start consolidating your hold on the east. Just check up on them every year or so to see how their wars are going, and then if they start showing signs of weakness pounce. Them being allied to France sucks but you can always use the opinion mapmode to figure out if France would even be able to get their troops to the war in the first place.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Jastiger posted:

A few questions: How dependent is your strategy upon Lithuania taking some of the LO provinces? I've played that war a few times and even when I win, Lithuania does NOT get anything other than helping me siege some of the Teutonic Order and tends to suicide against superior stacks.

Is it better to wait until after the war to integrate Mazovia or before?

If Manpower reaches 0, this means every gain of Manpower you get is sent immediately to the front lines, right? Regardless of where they are?

What factors contribute to a stack wipe? Just going to 0 morale, or is there something else at play here? Sometimes I'll lose a battle and 11 of my 15 stacks will run away. Other times it may just disappear. What determines that?

It's not really dependent on that at all. I find Lithuania is always pretty good at beating the Teutonic armies by themselves, but if not, just keep your armies nearby. You can either join the fight, or wait until Lithuania retreats, and then attack their weakened armies yourself. Giving away the Livonian orders provinces themselves is just a side benefit of me having already beaten them down anyway. I would have accepted a white peace with them too, but the AI never really accepts that until they're completely beaten anyway, so I took some provinces just for the hell of it.

You could integrate before, I actually just didn't think about it until after. Most starting vassals (say, Muscovy's) can't be annexed until 1454 (10 years after start), so I was surprised to see you can start on Mazovia earlier. Just the difference in detail in the history files the game uses for it's setup.

Basically that's what 0 manpower means. But your armies have a specific reinforce speed (mouse over the attrition percentage to see it, but it's not hugely important), theoretically if you couldn't reinforce them for some reason, you could still accumulate manpower while having depleted armies. But at zero manpower, that means your regiments will be at reduced strength for prolonged periods of time, which makes them crap in battles. At that point it's better to Consolidate Regiments, and add mercenaries as required (mercenaries essentially have infinite manpower, but are much more expensive).

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Pellisworth posted:

Oirat gets a decision for permanent +2 Heathen Tolerance and there is potential for a TON of religion-swapping fuckery as they start Tengri with a bunch of Sunni and Vajrayana provinces.

Of course they're getting the syncretic faith thing in the patch.

This sounds hella fun. I might try it for my next run. I've never tried religion switching shenanigans. Can you give some advice on how to do that and what religions to switch through as Oirat?

Jastiger
Oct 11, 2008

by FactsAreUseless

PittTheElder posted:

It's not really dependent on that at all. I find Lithuania is always pretty good at beating the Teutonic armies by themselves, but if not, just keep your armies nearby. You can either join the fight, or wait until Lithuania retreats, and then attack their weakened armies yourself. Giving away the Livonian orders provinces themselves is just a side benefit of me having already beaten them down anyway. I would have accepted a white peace with them too, but the AI never really accepts that until they're completely beaten anyway, so I took some provinces just for the hell of it.

You could integrate before, I actually just didn't think about it until after. Most starting vassals (say, Muscovy's) can't be annexed until 1454 (10 years after start), so I was surprised to see you can start on Mazovia earlier. Just the difference in detail in the history files the game uses for it's setup.

Basically that's what 0 manpower means. But your armies have a specific reinforce speed (mouse over the attrition percentage to see it, but it's not hugely important), theoretically if you couldn't reinforce them for some reason, you could still accumulate manpower while having depleted armies. But at zero manpower, that means your regiments will be at reduced strength for prolonged periods of time, which makes them crap in battles. At that point it's better to Consolidate Regiments, and add mercenaries as required (mercenaries essentially have infinite manpower, but are much more expensive).

Ah. I didn't realize that you suffered such attrition when sieging and just chilling out in enemy provinces. My Manpower would be something like 11K, I'd win 4 battles and have no manpower and be like wtf...

Turns out most of them were being attritioned away faster than I could replace them each month.

I really want the ability to hand off provinces to Lithuania but I don't have that DLC. Curses.

Last Emperor
Oct 30, 2009

Is there an ironman compatible mod that makes the nice looking fonts etc on country names?

The one I found doesn't work for ironman mode.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Last Emperor posted:

Is there an ironman compatible mod that makes the nice looking fonts etc on country names?

The one I found doesn't work for ironman mode.

I'm not home right now and can't check but I'm pretty sure Arumba's mod pack updates the fonts.

Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Jastiger posted:

Wow thats actually really useful and explains a lot. Thanks a lot for that. Now it all makes sense.

Maginot line not gonna happen here, then eh?

The only thing that that explanation doesn't really mention is that if there are two adjacent forts, access to one will be blocked off, which might not be intuitive at first, so you need to siege one of the forts down first to get access to the second.

Fister Roboto
Feb 21, 2008

Jastiger posted:

Wow thats actually really useful and explains a lot. Thanks a lot for that. Now it all makes sense.

Maginot line not gonna happen here, then eh?

Au contraire, building a maginot line on your borders is actually very effective. Especially if you happen to have a nice mountain range on your borders.

e: don't forget to scorch the earth before the enemy arrives!

Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 7, 2015

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MrBling
Aug 21, 2003

Oozing machismo

Node posted:

Okay, am I missing something here, or having a streak of incredibly bad luck? I am trying Buddhists Strike Back, and I'm never getting anywhere. Vijay will keep you warned, and eventually declare war on you. No one is willing to ally you. Do I have to keep rolling the dice and waiting until Vijay gets into a war that brings them to their knees? Because in over a dozen attempts, that hasn't happened yet.

Luckily there is a very thorough video guide. :v:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm0MDLKuRDrlafc197MyxFBfItw1Lb-oF

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