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The "bits aren't bits" people are the most beyond help of the lot. I figured explaining how bit-perfect transmissions can be guaranteed over 3000 miles of various cables into and out of copper road boxes, under oceans and across plains, would in some way convince people an ethernet cable can be considered a trusted vector, but lol. Michael Lavorgna of audiostream is a relatively high-profile audiophool who completely buys into the the ethernet cable myths http://www.audiostream.com/ Reading his poo poo makes my head hurt and I had to stop. On a review of ethernet cables he would claim "immediate night and day" differences in swapping them, but then claimed double-blind tests are impossible for reasons.
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Oct 12, 2015 10:13
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Khablam posted:The "bits aren't bits" people are the most beyond help of the lot. Jesus that guy is the king of nonsense audiphile rhetoric. From his review of some $20k power conditioners and cables: quote:The background silence was deep allowing fine detail and high end transients to emerge with outstanding clarity and definition. In fact, the reproduction of high end detail and transients were the best I have yet heard from any power conditioner. Many of the power conditioners I have listened to tend to smooth the end robbing it of its ultimate resolution. This effect might be pleasant to some listeners, but I consider it subtractive in nature. lol at someone "listening" to a power conditioner.
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Oct 12, 2015 10:31
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Imagine your life is so perfect/so horribly broken that you waste it comparing different bits of copper, sitting down listening to the same passage of music over and over and over and somehow managing to convince yourself there's any difference at all. Imagine being that type of person.
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Oct 12, 2015 13:07
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88h88 posted:Imagine your life is so perfect/so horribly broken that you waste it comparing different bits of copper, sitting down listening to the same passage of music over and over and over and somehow managing to convince yourself there's any difference at all. He probably doesn't listen to the same passage over and over because that would be too close to attempting to be objective. Audiophiles have a huge variety of lovely excuses for distrusting scientific testing methodologies and preferring deliberately subjective approaches.
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Oct 12, 2015 18:20
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At some point in the mid-to-late '80s I feel like some of these companies were legit worried about digital audio wrecking their stuff but it turns out that doubling down on crazy worked even better.
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Oct 12, 2015 19:01
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Dude at AVS made 25' speaker wires out of aluminum foil and compared them against 4' of Monster Cable XP, measured* results were nearly identical. *This is the bit that everyone can argue over forever because everyone knows the ears of rich dudes age 45-75 are the most accurate in the world, outclassing even our most sensitive measuring devices.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:57
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So, I can pick up a used IBM p6 520 (smallest chassis they shipped at 4U) for ~$1,200. I wonder how much I could resell it for as a music server running RHEL 6 and touting the in-order execution of the CPU as a selling point. I'm thinking $40-50 grand with $200/month remote support and "tuning". Edit: Even better, I can mount it on an IKEA Lack table for an extra $1,000. AlexDeGruven fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 12, 2015 23:59
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qirex posted:Dude at AVS made 25' speaker wires out of aluminum foil and compared them against 4' of Monster Cable XP, measured* results were nearly identical. im more surprised that the frequency response had that much variation e: oh, he measured output at the speaker. in a way this highlights how meaningless even measurable cable distortion is - most likely it will be masked by your speakers, which are pure distortion crapfests compared to the electronic bits Panty Saluter fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 13, 2015 00:00
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qirex posted:Dude at AVS made 25' speaker wires out of aluminum foil and compared them against 4' of Monster Cable XP, measured* results were nearly identical. That is just an SPL measurement to be fair, SPL, phase, waterfall and THD would be more useful in shutting the idiots up.
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Oct 13, 2015 17:48
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http://stereos.about.com/od/accessoriesheadphones/a/Do-Speaker-Cables-Make-A-Difference-Science-Weighs-In.htm TRIGGER WARNING: AUTOPLAY VIDEO I thought this was interesting - apparently speaker does run into resonance issues long before any power drop issues, and it seems to occur at real world lengths. It's tiny and tweaky for sure but it seems there's no harm to spending a few cents more to ensure your wire is of adequate gauge width.
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Oct 13, 2015 18:02
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Speaking of cables, here's another example of the classic "I used to not believe $AUDIOFILE_WOO, but now I am a true believe!" bullshit argument: http://audiophilereview.com/reference-speakers/a-tale-of-two-speakers---how-bi-amping-unlocked-my-bowers-wilkins-800-series-diamonds.html Bi-wiring: A cable salesman's wet dream. B-amping without disconnecting the passive crossovers and using an active line-level crossover: A complete waste of time. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 14:03
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I'm a firm believer in liking what you like when it comes to sound but trying to suggest that cables make a difference is just insanity and the people that push this kinda poo poo can get hosed.
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Oct 16, 2015 14:28
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If you have really horrible cables, it can make a difference. Maybe these people used to have uninsulated bare single strands of 40 gauge copper wire or something
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Oct 16, 2015 16:58
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If you're gonna go that deep just get some active monitors imo
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Oct 16, 2015 19:40
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Panty Saluter posted:If you're gonna go that deep just get some active monitors imo 
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Oct 16, 2015 19:58
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Hell yeah I have a pair of old Paradigm Titans hooked to a Marantz AVR for my computer audio. It's completely stupid and the Titans are not really nearfield but I love it and the cats love the receiver.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:45
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I like the Scarlett audio interface. You use that for recording, too?
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Oct 17, 2015 18:23
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moved
Vulcan fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 19:36
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I'm rocking the Adam A5Xs, a DBX Driverack PX DSP box for crossover duty, and two Dali SWA-12 subwoofers, all controlled by an NAD C165 preamp that is in turn fed by an NwAvGuy ODAC (and an SL-1210MK2 and a Chromecast Audio). Best setup I've ever had, and I've been through 7 or 8 complete stereo setups of varying quality IIRC, and obviously a number of different equipment swaps within those. For my main setup, I am an active monitor convert, through and through. Not that there's anything wrong with big amps and passive speakers, active is just better. My secondary setups are all dirt-cheap second-hand passive speakers and random cheap amps/receivers, because you can get really good sound for next to no money on the second-hand market. There's around $2,500 in gear once everything is accounted for (for all three of my current systems including Chromecasts etc.), which I admit is not exactly cheap, but it's been built over a period of time, and most of the gear is second-hand. And it's certainly nowhere near the $5,000 that noted audiophilia apologist Steve Guttenberg considers the starting point for an entry-level "decent" high-end system. Even so, the equipment that he recommends is objectively worse in every possible way compared to gear costing less than half the price, except for the crazy woo-woo audiophile forums cred factor. http://www.cnet.com/news/do-you-love-or-loathe-high-end-audio/ He also seems obsessed that there are a lot of people who actively hate the so-called high-end gear and its proponents. Honestly, pity is probably a better word for what most people feel. Or blissful indifference, I guess. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 15:29
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I use a set of Monsoon MM-1000s that I bought 12 years ago for $100 on clearance. The control puck is dead and the power supply is duct taped together but they still sound phenomenal. Too bad planar magnetic speakers are so directional.
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Oct 19, 2015 06:00
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grack posted:I use a set of Monsoon MM-1000s that I bought 12 years ago for $100 on clearance. Not as bad as you'd think. 
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Oct 19, 2015 06:32
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KozmoNaut posted:There's around $2,500 in gear once everything is accounted for (for all three of my current systems including Chromecasts etc.), which I admit is not exactly cheap, but it's been built over a period of time, and most of the gear is second-hand. And it's certainly nowhere near the $5,000 that noted audiophilia apologist Steve Guttenberg considers the starting point for an entry-level "decent" high-end system. Even so, the equipment that he recommends is objectively worse in every possible way compared to gear costing less than half the price, except for the crazy woo-woo audiophile forums cred factor. Steve Guttenberg is one of those hard line subjectivist audiophiles who think anything that sounds bad isn't actually bad but just "different". Most people that could be considered audiophiles actually hate his guts because his subjective opinions often decrease the quality of discussion as they're extremely inconsistent or plain incorrect. Probably because he's a shill at this point, like most audiophile reviewers working at a website or publication. I've actually been to a few of those crazy hardcore audiophile audio shows and the majority of speakers there are always consistently disappointing. Most stupidly priced speakers at these shows always: - Play boring rear end audiophile music that sounds decent on anything. - Have wimpy sized woofers completely incapable to rendering any sort of bass. - Have too much treble emphasis, probably for people severe hearing damage. - Have too much bass that it makes the midrange muddy as hell. - Really specific "sweet spot" listening positions that might not even be where the audition area is. - Have something wrong, like incorrect DSP implementation, resonating cabinets or strange crossover point. The more I go to these shows, the more convinced I am that deep end audiophiles are pretty much deaf. Chafe fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 09:02
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Chafe posted:The more I go to these shows, the more convinced I am that deep end audiophiles are
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Oct 19, 2015 09:13
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The strange thing is that I would expect old rich audiophiles to be the types to put speakers with huge woofers, like vintage JBLs, in their listening rooms yet a lot of speakers at these shows are wimpy things that can't do anything below 200hz.
Chafe fucked around with this message at 09:22 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 09:19
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Some audiophiles are into the old big-rear end wardrobe-sized speakers, like the old Klipsch Jubilee and Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater and similar models. Enormous room-filling (in every way) speakers that were outrageously expensive in their day, and still command high prices because of their relative rarity. The venerable Klipschorn also has a large following. I understand these guys, big speakers are awesome if you have the room for them, and can produce a big imposing sound profile that no small speaker will ever match. Like you said though, a lot of audiophiles are into these little piss-ant speakers with like a single 6" full-range driver that can barely handle 30 watts, and they love to harp on about how pure and deep the bass response is. Stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYB2OQncOgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcLV_zXKJiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Z6Z6uNJ2E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeo2A2H5SDI The AVshowrepots and AVshowrooms channels on Youtube are an amazing source of the most amazing pure-strain audiophile twiddle-twaddle bullshit.
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Oct 19, 2015 10:52
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Chafe posted:Steve Guttenberg is one of those hard line subjectivist audiophiles who think anything that sounds bad isn't actually bad but just "different". Most people that could be considered audiophiles actually hate his guts because his subjective opinions often decrease the quality of discussion as they're extremely inconsistent or plain incorrect. Probably because he's a shill at this point, like most audiophile reviewers working at a website or publication. I still think that first police academy movie is pretty good.
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Oct 19, 2015 12:07
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Wasabi the J posted:Not as bad as you'd think. Not pictured: the listened sitting bolt upright at the point of an isosceles triangle, not daring to even breathe too quickly lest the soundstage collapse  I have some MM-700s that I only recently retired. Had 'em since '00 or '01, I can't recall. The puck is kind of garbage, but being "dead" is very likely just filthy contacts. Mine was dropping channels and had nasty dead or noisy spots in it. Hit it with some Caig Deoxit and they've been great since.
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Oct 19, 2015 12:42
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KozmoNaut posted:Some audiophiles are into the old big-rear end wardrobe-sized speakers, like the old Klipsch Jubilee and Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater and similar models. Enormous room-filling (in every way) speakers that were outrageously expensive in their day, and still command high prices because of their relative rarity. The venerable Klipschorn also has a large following. I understand these guys, big speakers are awesome if you have the room for them, and can produce a big imposing sound profile that no small speaker will ever match. In the first video I love how reflective that room is from just their voices. In the last video I love how much sibilance is present either in the recording or the reproduction from the speakers. Either way there must be at least $100 of tweeter, woofer, crossover and wood cabinet in those speakers.
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Oct 19, 2015 13:43
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Also the speakers jammed into the corners for maximum node/antinode action
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Oct 19, 2015 13:46
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88h88 posted:In the first video I love how reflective that room is from just their voices. For someone who is a self-proclaimed audiophile, Peter Breuninger absolutely does not give any shits about the sound quality in his videos. Most of the price in that particular speaker goes towards the several pounds of silver in the external passive crossover. The base speaker itself without the crazy audiophile mods and cables is downright affordable by crazy audiophile standards (still horribly overpriced for a lovely box speaker, though). It's only once you get into the crazy signature models that the price explodes. I love that Peter Qvortrup (the guy in the first video) talks about how they accidentally made the bass reflex port too small, but when he put the speakers in a corner, the bass response improved! Like it was some sort of great discovery  And of course "they'll put most speakers to shame that have two 12-inch bass units". Yeah right, pull the other one. Panty Saluter posted:Also the speakers jammed into the corners for maximum node/antinode action I bet that is literally the only way to get any kind of bass response from those monkey coffins. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 14:24
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http://www.flareaudio.com/flare-audio-launches-zero/ Asking price is as you'd expect - it uses off the shelf drivers from pro audio manufacturers, albeit their top end stuff, but not the usual hifi bits you'd expect. There was a nice orange anodised coaxial model at the PLASA show too mind. Although it seems they forgot to read this: http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
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Oct 19, 2015 14:26
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KozmoNaut posted:monkey coffins. I am so calling all bookshelf/small floorstanding speakers this going forward
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Oct 19, 2015 14:28
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Panty Saluter posted:I am so calling all bookshelf/small floorstanding speakers this going forward It's a very common term in the audio trade, especially among those with a disdain for box speakers and a love for dipoles etc.
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Oct 19, 2015 14:31
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KozmoNaut posted:Some audiophiles are into the old big-rear end wardrobe-sized speakers, like the old Klipsch Jubilee and Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater and similar models. Enormous room-filling (in every way) speakers that were outrageously expensive in their day, and still command high prices because of their relative rarity. The venerable Klipschorn also has a large following. I understand these guys, big speakers are awesome if you have the room for them, and can produce a big imposing sound profile that no small speaker will ever match. Anyone knew the track being played in the 3rd video here? I could use some more accordion in my life.
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Oct 19, 2015 14:36
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KozmoNaut posted:It's a very common term in the audio trade, especially among those with a disdain for box speakers and a love for dipoles etc. News to me. Guess I was hanging in the wrong audio circles. Then again where I worked was admittedly mid-fi, so.
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Oct 19, 2015 14:40
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bigman.50grand posted:Anyone knew the track being played in the 3rd video here? I could use some more accordion in my life. We've found it - the last remaining Weird Al fan.
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Oct 19, 2015 14:42
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KillHour posted:We've found it - the last remaining Weird Al fan. Hey now, there are dozens of us.
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Oct 19, 2015 14:51
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Mandatory Fun is Al's best selling album to date. How many people can say that 30 years into their career? 
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Oct 19, 2015 14:56
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More wonderful accordion, and the perfect test track for only the finest high-end audiophile systems. Myron Floren - Disco Accordion
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Oct 19, 2015 15:09
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KozmoNaut posted:Some audiophiles are into the old big-rear end wardrobe-sized speakers, like the old Klipsch Jubilee and Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater and similar models. Enormous room-filling (in every way) speakers that were outrageously expensive in their day, and still command high prices because of their relative rarity. The venerable Klipschorn also has a large following. I understand these guys, big speakers are awesome if you have the room for them, and can produce a big imposing sound profile that no small speaker will ever match. I like my big speakers. I'd like to get some smaller ones, but I'm afraid they'll sound too "small".  That's a 55" TV
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Oct 19, 2015 19:04
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