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Scapegoat
Sep 18, 2004

Apollodorus posted:

This World Cup has been really great for several reasons (thrilling Scotland/Samoa game, England crashing out in pool play of YET ANOTHER major sporting event, Japan playing the ballsiest rugby I've ever watched) but as an American I can't help but feel extremely frustrated. All across social media I've been getting these messages from USA Rugby about a "gallant campaign" and "hard-fought games" and "thanks for the memories" and I'm just thinking, look, we couldn't even put a single point on the board against the Springboks, meaning USA Eagles were the only team to be held scoreless this World Cup, and meanwhile we completely collapsed in the second half against Scotland and Samoa. It's just not acceptable that we can't find 30 guys out of a country of ~350 million (which I think is roughly equal to the population of all top-10-ranked rugby nations COMBINED) who have the desire, athletic ability, and training to play top-level professional rugby. Apparently the most we can find is like 8 (Manoa, Wyles, Scully, Fry, Lamositele, Dolan, Smith, Peterson) and several of them play for mediocre top-level teams at that.

Meanwhile, thousands of young men play college football where they a) don't get paid despite putting in ludicrously long hours of training, fitness, travel, and playing time, b) are generally too busy to get much use out of the scholarship they are supposedly playing for, c) have a huge risk of brain damage from repeated concussions, and d) stand only a tiny chance of actually getting to play professionally. And of course this is in a sport where the average player doesn't really get to DO anything, up to and including never touching the ball if everything goes according to plan.

At the same time, soccer is hugely popular here now - our national team is better than England's, at least to judge by the last soccer World Cup - but it's a stupid sport run by organized crime (in which several Americans are definitely implicated) where the objective is to fall down and pretend to be hurt in order to score the only point of the match, unless of course the referee has been bribed in which case you can be actually hurt by a cheating opponent and nothing happens if he wasn't looking (because why use video replay, it could only tell us what we already know, namely that soccer players are dirty fucks).

I thought the USA vs NZ test in Chicago last November was a good sign, that even when we KNOW it's going to be a total shellacking our rugby fans are die-hard enough to fill up a stadium bigger than Eden Park, in near-freezing weather, and watch a great team (as well as the Eagles) play, broadcast live on a major television network. But that may have been a red herring.

At least we have the Olympics to look forward to. Most Americans don't even know what rugby is, besides being something vaguely like football that their cousin who studied abroad in Australia got really into for the time he was there but promptly forgot about (and also is probably talking about rugby league or Aussie rules anyway). But I have hope that the Olympic broadcast will actually show rugby 7s to a real USA TV audience, since the time zone with Rio de Janeiro is roughly the same as the US East Coast, and the event may be on a TV network that people actually receive (not some poo poo like Universal Sports or NBC SportsNet or FOX SoccerPlus or w/e) and then American football players will see it and think "hey, this is a sport that has everything I like about football - running plus catching plus hitting - with the chance to play on the world stage, without the massive risk of concussion!"

Of course then we run the risk of becoming a primarily a 7s-playing country, but let's face it, we already are anyway (winning the last world 7s tournament of the '14-'15 season) and there are worse things than playing rugby as well as Fiji does, especially considering that if we had a World Cup team that was basically two 7s squads put together PLUS huge amounts of sponsorship dollars, we might be able to actually Win A Rugby for once dammit.

:argh:

Maybe the trick is to promote rugby in Canada. Half the time I feel Australia is only interested in rugby since they don't like their little brother NZ looking good. Built up the rivalry with Canada so US always is striving to beat them. Also one thing that amazed my when I lived in Canada was how many kids played rugby in highschool, they all drop it after it seems though.

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Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

Scapegoat posted:

Maybe the trick is to promote rugby in Canada. Half the time I feel Australia is only interested in rugby since they don't like their little brother NZ looking good. Built up the rivalry with Canada so US always is striving to beat them. Also one thing that amazed my when I lived in Canada was how many kids played rugby in highschool, they all drop it after it seems though.

Australia likes the following things:

1) Winning everything
2) Beating New Zealand
3) Beating England

When the Wallabies aren't doing 2 of the above, no-one in Australia cares about them. For the last what, 8 years they haven't really been doing the above at all or have been doing it so inconsistently that it sort of happens in News headlines occasionally.

Australia cares about Rugby at all because we can beat England and New Zealand and beat other nations that aren't complete jokes at the sport (see also: "League, Rugby"), otherwise it would have remained a Private Schoolboys sport.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

I think my mass effect is broken

Scapegoat posted:

Maybe the trick is to promote rugby in Canada. Half the time I feel Australia is only interested in rugby since they don't like their little brother NZ looking good. Built up the rivalry with Canada so US always is striving to beat them. Also one thing that amazed my when I lived in Canada was how many kids played rugby in highschool, they all drop it after it seems though.

It probably doesn't help that there's no clear pathway towards playing rugby professionally in Canada.



In other news, World Rugby put out an 11-minute video of England's highlights from the current World Cup. The real surprise is that they were able to find that much footage. :smugdog:

Divorced And Curious
Jan 23, 2009

democracy depends on sausage sizzles

Schlesische posted:

Australia cares about Rugby at all because we can beat England and New Zealand and beat other nations that aren't complete jokes at the sport (see also: "League, Rugby"), otherwise it would have remained a Private Schoolboys sport.

It's really true; when Australia is doing well everyone points to likeable guys like David Pocock and Nick Cummins, but when Australia is busy sucking people's image of union players is centred on university-aged Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey.

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:

Mister Chief posted:

I've never seen a Canadian so passionate about American rugby.

You joke but that was a seriouspost and a real source of frustration for me and many American rugby fans. I mean, hell, there is a guy on my team who is almost as obsessed with rugby as I am but who can't name more than like 2 players on the USA Eagles and who just ignores American rugby in general. He's planning to send his son to school in New Zealand just so he can grow up playing rugby--rather than, you know, try to support local youth development and help build American rugby into something his son can grow up with.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

I think my mass effect is broken
Referee appointments for the quarterfinals

South Africa v. Wales (Twickenham)
Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant Referees: George Clancy (Ireland), JP Doyle (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

New Zealand v. France (Millennium Stadium)
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant Referees: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), John Lacey (Ireland)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

Ireland v. Argentina (Millennium Stadium)
Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Assistant Referees: Roman Poite (France), Chris Pollock (New Zealand)
TO: George Ayoub (South Africa)

Australia v. Scotland (Twickenham)
Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Glen Jackson (New Zealand), Pascal Gauzere (France)
TMO: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)


Let the bitching commence.

The Clit Avoider
Aug 11, 2002

El Profesional
I can only assume Garces is being given a match now so they can placate him later by telling him he had a QF. Because gently caress me, one of those appointments is not like the others.


Barnes' appointment might help Wales - they're used to his style, and his view of breakdown contests. Joubert is probably going to yellow a Scot within 25min. Oh and look forward to Owens telling Veldsman to stop trying to ref the game himself.

ColtMcAsskick
Nov 7, 2010
If there's any reason Australia will lose it's going to be their play style clashing with Craig Joubert's interpretation of the rules.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

ColtMcAsskick posted:

If there's any reason Australia will lose it's going to be their play style clashing with Craig Joubert's interpretation of the rules.

I don't know, Joubert likes to keep the ball in play and penalises ruck underhandedness. That feeds into the way Australia like to play. Against Wales we got some ruck penalties from him that won us the game. Genia's yellow was blatant cynical play (he admitted so himself), and Mumm's, while pretty soft, was probably for repeated infringements.

ColtMcAsskick
Nov 7, 2010
From what I recall Craig Joubert hands penalties out like candy. May just be the teams he refs though. I still would have preferred someone else

fallingdownjoe
Mar 16, 2007

Please love me
Barnes has been one of the best refs so far, so I'm well up for that. And politically he's obviously a no-go for New Zealand v France anyway. At this stage (except Garces) they're all doing pretty well most of the time on most things: it's the citing board which is weird as gently caress.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

ColtMcAsskick posted:

From what I recall Craig Joubert hands penalties out like candy. May just be the teams he refs though. I still would have preferred someone else

Yeah, he does, but I think that will work in our favour. We'd prefer to play fast Rugby against Scotland and they'll be trying to slow us down at the ruck. Joubert hates that sort of thing and it usually benefits Australian teams that rely on speed (since we don't have a good kicking field kicking game).

Vaders Jester
Sep 9, 2009

:scotland:
Scotland are probably going to go nuts and throw things around a lot against Australia as they've got pretty much nothing to lose at this point with Gray and Ford out. I don't think they can stand with Australia in the break down so I can't see them wanting to keep the game slow and probably want to get the backs in as much as possible.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

I think my mass effect is broken

fallingdownjoe posted:

Barnes has been one of the best refs so far, so I'm well up for that. And politically he's obviously a no-go for New Zealand v France anyway. At this stage (except Garces) they're all doing pretty well most of the time on most things: it's the citing board which is weird as gently caress.

Honestly, I wonder if that game in Cardiff 8 years ago has basically ended any chance of him refereeing beyond a quarterfinal in a world cup.

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012

Unimpressed posted:

Yeah, he does, but I think that will work in our favour. We'd prefer to play fast Rugby against Scotland and they'll be trying to slow us down at the ruck. Joubert hates that sort of thing and it usually benefits Australian teams that rely on speed (since we don't have a good kicking field kicking game).

As someone who was born into Brumbies Rugby, I can holistically deny that Joubert gives Australia any advantage by allowing us to play a smoother flowing game.
In fact, the opposite. He has a long and storied history of levying infractions at the Australian scrum like he's some kind of cartoon baboon with poo poo. Same with Poite.

Unless one of them has radically changed their view on how scrums, rucks and mauls should be penalised.

I'm not saying Australia don't do... well we suck at scrums. But it's typically exacerbated by teams who recognise that you can win 5m with the scrum or you can 50 with the penalty.

Unimpressed
Feb 13, 2013

Schlesische posted:

As someone who was born into Brumbies Rugby, I can holistically deny that Joubert gives Australia any advantage by allowing us to play a smoother flowing game.
In fact, the opposite. He has a long and storied history of levying infractions at the Australian scrum like he's some kind of cartoon baboon with poo poo. Same with Poite.

Unless one of them has radically changed their view on how scrums, rucks and mauls should be penalised.

I'm not saying Australia don't do... well we suck at scrums. But it's typically exacerbated by teams who recognise that you can win 5m with the scrum or you can 50 with the penalty.

I suspect the general view on our scrum has changed since Poite did his scrum swivel penalty against England: https://youtu.be/oHjHRD5MK0s?t=206

Vaders Jester
Sep 9, 2009

:scotland:
Scotland are going to appeal the ban on Gray and Ford. I expect just out of spite, the citing commission will increase the bans to 5 weeks.

fallingdownjoe
Mar 16, 2007

Please love me
Wales appear to have decided that they can only win when they sacrifice players: they're putting Tyler Morgan on as centre against the Springboks so that his broken body will appease the bloodthirsty gods.

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:

fallingdownjoe posted:

Wales appear to have decided that they can only win when they sacrifice players: they're putting Tyler Morgan on as centre against the Springboks so that his broken body will appease the bloodthirsty gods.

When they put that "oxblood" color on the jerseys for this year, it was SUPPOSED to be a metaphor...

Tyma
Dec 22, 2004

Chwyldro Dawnsio Dawns

fallingdownjoe posted:

Wales appear to have decided that they can only win when they sacrifice players: they're putting Tyler Morgan on as centre against the Springboks so that his broken body will appease the bloodthirsty gods.

They were also kind enough to provide a visual metaphor for Wales World Cup hopes from this point on :



Have Eli Walker and Mike Phillips just shown up for Free Rollercoaster Day?

goatface
Dec 5, 2007

I had a video of that when I was about 6.

I remember it being shit.


Grimey Drawer

Vaders Jester posted:

Scotland are going to appeal the ban on Gray and Ford. I expect just out of spite, the citing commission will increase the bans to 5 weeks.

Does that mean they're denying the offence and withdrawing their remorse?

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:

goatface posted:

Does that mean they're denying the offence and withdrawing their remorse?

No they're appealing the fact that they were given 5 weeks in the first place, clearly.

Seriously though, I know it doesn't really affect things too much but Alesana Tuilagi getting 5 weeks for running forward while a dude made a back tackle on him...utter BS

ZombieJesus
Feb 26, 2005

He died for your sins, he rose for your BRAINS

Apollodorus posted:

You joke but that was a seriouspost and a real source of frustration for me and many American rugby fans. I mean, hell, there is a guy on my team who is almost as obsessed with rugby as I am but who can't name more than like 2 players on the USA Eagles and who just ignores American rugby in general. He's planning to send his son to school in New Zealand just so he can grow up playing rugby--rather than, you know, try to support local youth development and help build American rugby into something his son can grow up with.

He's planning on sending his son to school in a country thousand's of miles away because rugby, but he's less obsessed than you?

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:

ZombieJesus posted:

He's planning on sending his son to school in a country thousand's of miles away because rugby, but he's less obsessed than you?

You're right, the first thing I said doesn't make sense in the context of the second thing I said.

I suppose what I mean is that to him "rugby" means the same thing as "New Zealand rugby" and he doesn't care at all about the Northern hemisphere, hence the "less obsessed" because apparently I will watch any drat thing to hear him tell it.

Vaders Jester
Sep 9, 2009

:scotland:
You should one-up him and move to New Zealand and have kids who are born there, enroll them into the best schools and live vicariously through their rugby success if they become professionals.

I mean, that won't help grass roots rugby in the US but at least you'd be able to great rugby games ;)

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:
Actually I should really move to Australia because my soon-to-be-wife does all her ethnographic research in Bali.

But gently caress that.

Vaders Jester
Sep 9, 2009

:scotland:
True, the only thing nature didn't do with Australia is create a giant, glowing, venomous sign near it saying "gently caress off humans!"

Apollodorus
Feb 13, 2010

TEST YOUR MIGHT
:patriot:
Looks like someone is really taking England's getting knocked out hard:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-34537841

Tyma
Dec 22, 2004

Chwyldro Dawnsio Dawns

Apollodorus posted:

Looks like someone is really taking England's getting knocked out hard:

Boris Johnson is England's greatest contribution to sport :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19bBoA

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Family to be is coming into town at no notice, so a good excuse to go to another game. Off to get slightly tipsy watching Wales before the NZ/FR fixture, it's been a blast so far so can't wait. Heard the atmosphere here while I as away for Ire/Fra was unbelievable, let's hope it keeps going.

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

I think my mass effect is broken

Tyma posted:

Boris Johnson is England's greatest contribution to sport :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWIUp19bBoA

He also looks like Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer crossed with Donald Trump.

tag youre fat
Aug 16, 2013

C'est l'homme ideal
charme au masculin


It just wouldn't be a World Cup if it didn't happen

fallingdownjoe
Mar 16, 2007

Please love me

Swan Curry posted:



It just wouldn't be a World Cup if it didn't happen

Holy poo poo that's amazing. If I was English I'd totally have a team to follow now.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

I believe in all the ways that they say you can lose your body
Fallen Rib
That poo poo worked for them in the last world cup so why not.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Swan Curry posted:



It just wouldn't be a World Cup if it didn't happen

Goddamn do I love the French :allears:

DickEmery
Dec 5, 2004

Swan Curry posted:



It just wouldn't be a World Cup if it didn't happen

I have been patiently waiting for someone to say "It depends which French team turn up" so I could come back with the zinger "There's another one in reserve that's not coached by PSA?"

Didn't expect it to be true.

France by 5.

tarbrush
Feb 7, 2011

ALL ABOARD THE SCOTLAND HYPE TRAIN!

CHOO CHOO
I'm not supporting the French. No matter batshit crazy they are.

Ewar Woowar
Feb 25, 2007

I hate playing the French :ohdear:

Knuc U Kinte
Aug 17, 2004

The French for the win. Sports misery vampire is anticipating a healthy meal this weekend.

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ColtMcAsskick
Nov 7, 2010
Oh lame I was expecting a Friday night game. I'm falling apart for the lack of rugby here

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