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Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

Make no mistake I will own a proper kick rear end knife. There was an old crusty dude on the boat who was killing lion fish and catching lobsters - the giant knife strapped to his calf made me jealous.

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pupdive
Jun 13, 2012

Gromit posted:

I bought a blunt-tipped titanium dive knife that straps to my leg. I know that a smaller set of wire cutters or shears or whatever they are called that fit in a BCD pocket make more sense, but it's something I've always wanted and makes me feel like 70s James Bond when I'm strapping it on.

The important thing to remember about diving it is for fun, and we are only able to get to breathe underwater due to the outsized imaginations and balls of some pretty amazing dudes, and women if we include the free diving side.

So go for the BFK as it is called if your heart cries out for it:

http://www.johnchatterton.com/the-politically-incorrect-blade/

Interesting post about a BFK on an interesting blog overall by one of the old crusties. He has some association with "Shadow Divers" the book.

We are in a place where we are not designed to be, through the magic of technology. The only reason we are there is because of some irrational desire to begin with. SO go crazy with the biggest knife you can find, because if you don't love your gear, why buy it? (I bought a dive knife years before I had the chance to get certified, just because Dive!! Knife!!!

*****
That said, my only time being truly entangled badly underwater was when monofilament wrapped around my leg mounted knife, and managed to tie my legs together with invisible fishing line. My exact thought when this happened was "if only I did not have a knife". After my buddy cut me free, I threw the big knife in my boat because on a boat (and really only on a boat) big rear end knives are useful, and switched to a wrist mounted cutter. That cutter is now is a Trilobite on the strap of my wrist computer. And an opposite wrist mounted computer and cutter as well for adventurous dives. I really don't like body or harness mounted cutters for a number of reasons, the most practical of which is that my wrist computer and the knife stay on from the first dive on, and so the cutter ends up being useful for a bunch of stuff that a knife on a rocking boat is not the best idea for.

Trilobite: http://eezycut.com/

The blade is perfectly protected (fingers and hoses won't fit easily into the cutting area, but fishing line, tuna cord, and kelp (the common entanglement hazards) will and are driven into the cutting edge).This means that when you are trapped by invisible monofilament behind your head you can safely slash away at the line without having to worry about cutting your own hoses or fingers. This came in handy when a fishing hook magically appear on a student's face, and I was able to cut the attached line without having to find it first or worry about waving a knife at a student. I was able to do this before the student was even aware she had been hooked.

Horrible, and hilarious, because I had an open water student swimming around with a fish hook stuck on her. If you have ever tried to point out something to another diver on their body you will know why telling her anything was pointless, until we were back on the boat. So I just laughed and laughed, and made sure she posed for a picture while she was still hooked.)
***
As far as the shears go, they fail at the rivet because the rivet cannot be made of the proper stainless for strength reasons so it rusts and fails. So the blades are fine and the rivet fails either due to rusting. I used to try and rivet them back together but the over-the-counter rivets are not strong enough.

When I have a bunch of underwater rope course work to do, I do use the surgical shears but they are not reliable to leave them in place and expect them to work when really needed. I do always have a pair my tool kit on the boat though, in case someone needs a penny cut in half.

pupdive fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Oct 13, 2015

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
Cool, I was thinking about purchasing a small blade (though to be fair I really should get a reg first), but that thing you linked seems much more feasible.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

pupdive posted:

The important thing to remember about diving it is for fun, and we are only able to get to breathe underwater due to the outsized imaginations and balls of some pretty amazing dudes, and women if we include the free diving side.

So go for the BFK as it is called if your heart cries out for it:

http://www.johnchatterton.com/the-politically-incorrect-blade/

Interesting post about a BFK on an interesting blog overall by one of the old crusties. He has some association with "Shadow Divers" the book.

We are in a place where we are not designed to be, through the magic of technology. The only reason we are there is because of some irrational desire to begin with. SO go crazy with the biggest knife you can find, because if you don't love your gear, why buy it? (I bought a dive knife years before I had the chance to get certified, just because Dive!! Knife!!!

*****
That said, my only time being truly entangled badly underwater was when monofilament wrapped around my leg mounted knife, and managed to tie my legs together with invisible fishing line. My exact thought when this happened was "if only I did not have a knife". After my buddy cut me free, I threw the big knife in my boat because on a boat (and really only on a boat) big rear end knives are useful, and switched to a wrist mounted cutter. That cutter is now is a Trilobite on the strap of my wrist computer. And an opposite wrist mounted computer and cutter as well for adventurous dives. I really don't like body or harness mounted cutters for a number of reasons, the most practical of which is that my wrist computer and the knife stay on from the first dive on, and so the cutter ends up being useful for a bunch of stuff that a knife on a rocking boat is not the best idea for.

Trilobite: http://eezycut.com/

The blade is perfectly protected (fingers and hoses won't fit easily into the cutting area, but fishing line, tuna cord, and kelp (the common entanglement hazards) will and are driven into the cutting edge).This means that when you are trapped by invisible monofilament behind your head you can safely slash away at the line without having to worry about cutting your own hoses or fingers. This came in handy when a fishing hook magically appear on a student's face, and I was able to cut the attached line without having to find it first or worry about waving a knife at a student. I was able to do this before the student was even aware she had been hooked.

Horrible, and hilarious, because I had an open water student swimming around with a fish hook stuck on her. If you have ever tried to point out something to another diver on their body you will know why telling her anything was pointless, until we were back on the boat. So I just laughed and laughed, and made sure she posed for a picture while she was still hooked.)
***
As far as the shears go, they fail at the rivet because the rivet cannot be made of the proper stainless for strength reasons so it rusts and fails. So the blades are fine and the rivet fails either due to rusting. I used to try and rivet them back together but the over-the-counter rivets are not strong enough.

When I have a bunch of underwater rope course work to do, I do use the surgical shears but they are not reliable to leave them in place and expect them to work when really needed. I do always have a pair my tool kit on the boat though, in case someone needs a penny cut in half.

Excellent post, thank you.

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013

Gromit posted:

I bought a blunt-tipped titanium dive knife that straps to my leg. I know that a smaller set of wire cutters or shears or whatever they are called that fit in a BCD pocket make more sense, but it's something I've always wanted and makes me feel like 70s James Bond when I'm strapping it on.

Never strap knives on your leg for the reasons above. Best place to have it is somewhere on your BC where both your arms can reach it in case of entanglement. It's also the most practical place to place it in case you do need it underwater (I use mine a fair bit for scientific diving). Also make sure that if you do purchase a knife, you get one with a rope/cable cutter.

Barnsy fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 13, 2015

Cippalippus
Mar 31, 2007

Out for a ride, chillin out w/ a couple of friends. Going to be back for dinner
I attach one to the bcd and one to the corrugated hose.

Deep Dish Fuckfest
Sep 6, 2006

Advanced
Computer Touching


Toilet Rascal
Sorry to interrupt knifechat, but I'm looking at booking a trip to Cozumel for myself for late November/early December, and I figured the thread might be able to help me for a couple of things. Bit of background: I've been certified for about five years, and all the dives I've done so far were here in Canada, either in lakes or the St-Lawrence river. So that would actually be my first "real" dive trip. I haven't been diving very regularly, to be honest, but that hasn't been an issue in the past; in any case I don't think I'd be any worse than someone who just did their OW at a resort. And I expect conditions to be significantly better than what I'm used to, so that should help too.

Anyhow, I wanted to know if anybody had recommendations as far as hotels/dive operations go in Cozumel. I've been looking at reviews and travel guides, but I figured I might ask here as well. Also useful would be places to avoid. There's a pretty good chance I might go with some flight/hotel package type deal, but I could look at other options if there's a good reason to.

Also, I have my own gear (even though I know it doesn't make sense financially, but I don't care), but I'm not sure if there's anything I should know about bringing my gear over there. I'm obviously not going to bring my own tanks or weights, but other than that do I just pack everything in with my other luggage and check it in?

One last thing, from what I've read the late November/early December period should be after hurricane season, but before the high season of late December. It's cooler than in summer, and there can be some periods with rain and wind, but it's generally ok. Is that about right? I'd rather not get there and learn that I should have brought a drysuit with me...

Any other tips are appreciated.

asur
Dec 28, 2012
I dove with Tres Pelicanos the August before last. It was the first place I went after my OW training and it was great.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012
Since this is your first dive travel it's all learning for you. Obviously, people have different prefs and requirements so the best thing to do is think about a bunch of decisions that some people have made or thought about, and see what seems important to you. In the end, some people travel all the time with nothing and have fun doing it, and some people travel all the time with everything and see the 'hassle' as part of the fun. For many people the camera is the whole reason for diving, so they only care about that. The big enough cameras take their own foam packed Pelican case, and that pretty much makes the other choices moot since that's all the room. You did not mention a camera so I leave it out in the following.

Think about DIN versus yoke, and know that exposure protection determines the tanks and weight choices. Local facilities have stuff covered for their needs. If you show up with a drysuit and DIN reg to a tropical operator, generally you are going to be putting your gear aside for the trip and diving in rental gear and rental wetsuit. Understand that they dive and understand their conditions. Having guys have heat strokes in drysuits is not good for business. In the tropics, getting chilly at the end of a dive is a minor inconvenience. Getting heat stroke is life threatening.

Get your reg/BC in the water (pool or otherwise), and make sure it is perfectly functional, so you don't go to the trouble and expense of taking a set of gear and having to rent anyway. The same goes for your mask (skirt and straps and toothpaste one more time for luck), your fins and booties (straps buckles and zippers) and wetsuit (zippers). For anything with a zipper, get out the zipper wax and give it a coating while you are at it. Gear bag zipper too. Make sure everything tightens and loosens, opens and closes. And change the dive computer battery and have it pressure tested. WD-40 your cutting device. These simple failure points that I see in tourist's gear all the time make me feel bad, but are entirely preventable by checking everything out before you pack it. Of course some stuff just breaks because of age anyway. A lot of regular travelers use full foots for travel for weight wet savings. Check the heel to make sure it is not about to split.

The best bet on what to bring is to contact the operation and let their advice be your guide. Bring mask and computer, and then in descending order fins, regulator, BCD, exposure suit.

The general recommendation on packing gear is mask, computer, reg in your carry on for weight reason/expensive small thing reasons, and everything else in a separate checked bag. You pretty much will need a dive suitcase if you do not want your non diving stuff stinking and or wet, though some people are fine with those squish to pack vinyl thingies. Bring a roll of high mil garbage bags as back up. People who travel a lot swear by the wetsuit hangers with built in fans, though I have never used them. Proper BCD and boot hangars are too much trouble to bring, and yet they work well enough that some people bring them anyway. They are bulky but light.

What you might want is a operation that lets you hang your gear securely on purpose made hangars and pick it up after it dries, but those of us who can do this have to pay rent/electric/insurance on that space, so we charge more overall. On the other hand, other people just figure that they will deal with all the wash and hanging after they get back home, but paying weight overage for water weight sucks, so think about how you will get gear to dry in the humid tropics in a hotel room that shuts off the A/C when you are not in it.

Some people bring a mouthpiece and zip tie and use rental gear. Mouthpiece don't matter, except when they suck and don't fit your mouth.

If you have not already made the switch to braided Miflex hosing you might want to after your travel with your gear. Like spring straps, they don't seem all that great and useful until you have them a while, adn then you fear being without them. Being able to rinse a long hose reg easily in a bathroom sink is only possible with the flex-y hoses. And a deco reg with a MiFlex hose and a short HP hose can fit in your pocket if you are wearing cargo shorts. (I just admitted I wear cargo shorts.)

I switch all my hose to the double braided hoses, and now I simply cannot dive with regular hoses tugging and yanking on me all the time. If you switch before the trip, make sure and dive with them once or twice to get used to them, especially if you loop a long hose. If you have a 7 footer MiFlex does not work so well for some.

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



We did a trip to Cozumel in April and on the advice of this thread, dove with Jeremy Anschel of Living Underwater. He's a small operation, but a very caring guide, and we had a wonderful time diving with them.

I quite liked the stay at the Hotel B, but it's on the north side of the island and Jeremy won't go that far to pick you up at the hotel dock, so we had to drive to the marina. If the guy is there selling empanadas for 10 pesos off his motorcycle, buy them, for they are delicious.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos
We are going on a cruise to a bunch of southern caribbean islands. Which are the best for diving and which should we stick to land?

San Juan, Puerto Rico Depart 10:00 PM
Day 2 St. Thomas, USVI 7:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 3 Fun Day At Sea
Day 4 Barbados 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 5 St. Lucia 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 6 St Kitts, WI 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 7 St. Maarten, NA 7:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 8 San Juan, Puerto Rico

Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



I'm in St. Thomas right now and had a nice dive full of turtles, rays, and black-tip reef sharks yesterday. :)

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

cowofwar posted:

We are going on a cruise to a bunch of southern caribbean islands. Which are the best for diving and which should we stick to land?

San Juan, Puerto Rico Depart 10:00 PM
Day 2 St. Thomas, USVI 7:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 3 Fun Day At Sea
Day 4 Barbados 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 5 St. Lucia 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 6 St Kitts, WI 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 7 St. Maarten, NA 7:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Day 8 San Juan, Puerto Rico


St. Thomas: the BVI had great diving so I assume the USVI does too. Visibility should be good and decent reef life assuming it's like around Tortola and Scrub Island.

Barbados: will be there in about a month but my understanding is that's it's great. Will respond then if it isn't too late.


St. Lucia: depends. That is a rainforest type island so you can get some murky dives. The best dives are at the base of the Pitons and an absolute can't miss is Superman's Flight which is a massive drift dive and is all kinds of fun. If you can guarantee you will get that dive, it is a must do.

Can't speak to the others yet.

E: for St Lucia, the Lesleen is popular and close to the dock where we picked up cruise divers but be warned that currents can be heavy around it. It isn't a hard dive but I expect it's a common cruise ship dive stop and there are better places to go. Try to get stuff near the Pitons.

let it mellow fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 14, 2015

Deep Dish Fuckfest
Sep 6, 2006

Advanced
Computer Touching


Toilet Rascal

I didn't expect that much info, so thanks for that.

I was joking about bringing a drysuit (I don't even have one!). I'll be bringing my own wetsuit for sure, though. The few times I've rented one, they just don't seem to fit all that well once I'm in the water even if they seemed fine when I tried them on.

Checking to make sure my gear is ok is something I do when diving locally, so that's nothing new. Didn't think about the added weight for wet gear on the return trip, and definitely something I'll need to think about.

I don't have MiFlex hoses, but I'm not all that worried on that front. My reg fits in a fairly small soft case along with my computer, and having that in my carry-on luggage won't be a problem.

Thanks again, I really appreciate. Same for the other recommendations.

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum
We've found that wet weight doesn't make a huge difference. We do usually spend the last full day before flying home not diving, though. So BCDs, wetsuits go on the porch after the last day of diving for heat and mostly drip dry, also hold the BCD up at an angle and empty water out from the dump valve.

Then, before we hit the beach on the last full day, stuff gets moved in the A/C room (which has a dehumidifier as well) and stuck under a fan for air movement.

It's worked pretty well for us.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

My wife and I completed our open water and then booked, and finished three days of two tank boat dives.

At the end of the last boat my wife and a couple new acquaintances mentioned I looked and was acting tired.

Is it normal to get tired when first starting out? I have a two week trip to Bonaire scheduled, should I plan on a few days of rest?

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

Ropes4u posted:

My wife and I completed our open water and then booked, and finished three days of two tank boat dives.

At the end of the last boat my wife and a couple new acquaintances mentioned I looked and was acting tired.

Is it normal to get tired when first starting out? I have a two week trip to Bonaire scheduled, should I plan on a few days of rest?

that's an open ended question. It depends on your fitness level, your comfort and efficiency in the water and what you do in between dives.

Also how drunk you get at night, how late you're awake after you get in bed, and when you wake up to leave.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
Diving also surprisingly tires you out quite a bit. Enough so that some people report a noticeable difference depending on your gas mixture (air vs. nitrox) and depth.

cowofwar
Jul 30, 2002

by Athanatos
Diving gives a lot of sedentary fat nerds heart attacks underwater.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

Run and cycle regularly, haven't drank in 21 years. Diving with my wife added some stress as I feel responsible for her safety.

Efficiency obviously needs work.

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

Ropes4u posted:

Run and cycle regularly, haven't drank in 21 years. Diving with my wife added some stress as I feel responsible for her safety.

Efficiency obviously needs work.

Stress makes a difference, that's why I said "comfort and efficiency". Maybe I shouldn't have lumped them together, but each is an individual factor.

Icon Of Sin
Dec 26, 2008



It doesn't quite feel like it and you might not notice it, but take note of how long your dive is and think about how you'd feel doing a slow swim using only your legs/fins for that amount of time. That's not a perfect comparison of exertion (depth will have its own effect) but it should give you a rough baseline of what to expect after a dive.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012

Ropes4u posted:

My wife and I completed our open water and then booked, and finished three days of two tank boat dives.

At the end of the last boat my wife and a couple new acquaintances mentioned I looked and was acting tired.

Is it normal to get tired when first starting out? I have a two week trip to Bonaire scheduled, should I plan on a few days of rest?

First, congrats and welcome to the underwater world. Amazing, isn't it?

One thing to keep in mind, trying diving the first time, is that we humans use lots of feedback systems to tell when we are reaching out limits, and being weightless (as we are in diving) removes a bunch of those. Especially runners who use joint compression pain in knees and ankles, as a big part of the feedback.

Here's something we say after a heavy workout: "I am going to feel this tomorrow" What tells us that we will 'feel it tomorrow' are all the feedback systems that count on body weight loading, or in the case of some activities, slow twitch muscle exhaustion (like light lower back for ice skating, bicycling and the like). We are feeling something today, that experience has taught us means we have done some heavy work.

Remove the early warning systems because they don;t happen when you are weightless, and you can use all the stored energy in your body to the point that you cannot even lift your own body weight (let alone your weight plus the gear) once you are no longer weightless. And you will be completely exhausted (in the literal sense, as in your body has no energy stores available) without any warning signs.

It's something to watch out for in diving. It's something to really watch out for in guiding and leading, because people take off their mask, or take out their reg, before they are on dry land or the boat, and then almost drown themselves when they cannot lift their head clear of the water.

The fat guy on the boat who is not tired at all even though he should be exhausted since the young fit guys are, is also probably a master of saving energy. Perfect buoyancy and trim means one kick can glide you the same distance that a newer diver runs through 20 kick cycles to cover. When I can teach with my wife (also an instructor, and a free diver as well) my students are always confused by the fact she never seems to be moving her body and yet they can never keep up with her. Kick and glide, kick and glide.

(In free diving competitions they is a competition for the greatest distance covered with one kick. Look up on YouTube to get a sense of just how superhuman free divers are. Apropos of nothing other than it is amazing footage of people covering amazing distance on a single breath:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_IF20t2R8

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

Okay that all makes sense, especially the lack of feedback, I will make sure I plan some rest days to recover.

And yes it was an amazing experience.

Ropes4u fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Oct 16, 2015

SuitcasePimp
Feb 27, 2005

Luceo posted:

We did a trip to Cozumel in April and on the advice of this thread, dove with Jeremy Anschel of Living Underwater. He's a small operation, but a very caring guide, and we had a wonderful time diving with them.

I quite liked the stay at the Hotel B, but it's on the north side of the island and Jeremy won't go that far to pick you up at the hotel dock, so we had to drive to the marina. If the guy is there selling empanadas for 10 pesos off his motorcycle, buy them, for they are delicious.

Seconding Living Underwater, we dove with Jeremy a couple of years ago and it was an awesome experience. We found some really cool animals and the dives were loooong, using 95s on a not too deep drift dive gets you a lot of time. Small groups, pickup on your hotel dock, surface intervals at a sweet beach bar (with sand, which you don't get much of there). A++ would dive again.

SuitcasePimp
Feb 27, 2005

pupdive posted:


When I can teach with my wife (also an instructor, and a free diver as well) my students are always confused by the fact she never seems to be moving her body and yet they can never keep up with her. Kick and glide, kick and glide.


Pupdive, I have always enjoyed your posts but this is next level. My wife and I got bitten by diving hard and we are about a year or so out from leaving the corporate world and moving somewhere where we can pursue it more seriously as a career. Every where we go we try to get information from people that are doing it, but you seem to have been doing it a long time successfully. Would you mind sharing some knowledge with us? I see you don't have pm but I would love to chat somehow about how you guys did it, why you are teaching where you are, cost of living, etc. if you are down.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
I too would also enjoy reading that.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

I have been debating which regulators to get my wife s and I. I was pretty set on atomic, they are sold by the shop I will dive with when in Florida. But I see a lot about the HOG zeniths being equal in performance and cheaper.

Can anyone here comment on their HOG or atomic regulators ?

We will only be rec diving.

ZoCrowes
Nov 17, 2005

by Lowtax

Ropes4u posted:

I have been debating which regulators to get my wife s and I. I was pretty set on atomic, they are sold by the shop I will dive with when in Florida. But I see a lot about the HOG zeniths being equal in performance and cheaper.

Can anyone here comment on their HOG or atomic regulators ?

We will only be rec diving.

The biggest difference will be in the availability of parts and service. Atomic is an established brand with a dealer base which means that no matter where you are if you run into a problem you can probably find a tech/parts to work on them in a pinch. HOG is a very small brand overall. If you run into a problem, even if you have the parts kits to make the repairs, most shops won't touch them with a ten foot pole due to liability.

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000

Gromit posted:

I bought a blunt-tipped titanium dive knife that straps to my leg. I know that a smaller set of wire cutters or shears or whatever they are called that fit in a BCD pocket make more sense, but it's something I've always wanted and makes me feel like 70s James Bond when I'm strapping it on.
im going to sigh as a draw my katana before slicing through moon jellyfish on my next drift deco

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum

Bishop posted:

im going to sigh as a draw my katana before slicing through moon jellyfish on my next drift deco

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum
also I posted a few Turks and Caicos pics in the gbs :tropicalfish: thread including a flying gunard and Fire worm

let it mellow
Jun 1, 2000

Dinosaur Gum
phone posting so please cut some slack if i gently caress up the codes














Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!

Bishop posted:

im going to sigh as a draw my katana before slicing through moon jellyfish on my next drift deco

If you're not freediving with that katana then you're doing it wrong.

Bishop
Aug 15, 2000
Is hanzo steel stainless?

The ironic giant knife is actually a thing I've seen on boats over the years. Also old school dudes who got certified at the Y 40 years ago can pull off the leg mounted sword. I'm the guy with $2 Grocery store steak knives with the ends filed down. I'm not insufferable enough to call them "line cutters :smug:" instead of a knife though

MrNemo
Aug 26, 2010

"I just love beeting off"

I've seen the big knife unironically being worn by old school divers. These are the guys who apparently had stepped down from taking a hammer and chisel down on wreck dives though.

Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

For a dude that gets buyers remorse buying a regulator set is a nightmare of choices.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012
Or you can see it as the first in a series of well-planned steps.

Keep telling yourself that, and eventually it becomes that.

pupdive
Jun 13, 2012

SuitcasePimp posted:

Pupdive, I have always enjoyed your posts but this is next level. My wife and I got bitten by diving hard and we are about a year or so out from leaving the corporate world and moving somewhere where we can pursue it more seriously as a career. Every where we go we try to get information from people that are doing it, but you seem to have been doing it a long time successfully. Would you mind sharing some knowledge with us? I see you don't have pm but I would love to chat somehow about how you guys did it, why you are teaching where you are, cost of living, etc. if you are down.

I was going to vomit a pile of info, but I have to avoid personal info for a number of reasons though, so general stuff. It's all negative, I guess, looking back over it.

For an activity that is all about evaluating risks/benefits intelligently on different grounds on every level from basic certification to running their own operation, diving attracts a bunch of people who seem to be not together enough to actually make sound decisions. Most people in diving generally have an incredibly short 'career'. Those facts are often correlated.

Every time I hear someone talk about tort reform, I realize that punitive damage awards is the only thing that keeps the American diving markets from becoming the same as the Wild West Asian markets, where safety is usually only a vague suggestion no one ever is compelled to listen to finacially. Modern diving is actually just safe enough to keep the incident numbers just low enough to allow the Asian market operators to make bad choices. American lawsuits are designed to provide enough of punitive damage that it makes a huge difference in how safely American dive operations are run. This goes double for boats. American insurers walk through the boats and make operators make changes or lose coverage. Overseas 'insurers' are often just shell companies that exist to show an insurance card, that will magically cease to exist if an accident happens.

Multiple language skills in places with high turnover (tourism, especially international tourism). Also don't have kids. Long term planning. But working in international markets means you have associated companies that don't worry about safety, because lawsuits are not there to scare people into being safe. Trying to make your long term way in diving is hard, because for most people they have to make the choice about being less than safe, and staying employed. If you are not willing to be unsafe, there is someone waiting to replace you with no experience or instructor rating for less pay, and do those unsafe things.

If you have only English, and you are interested in accumulating skills and experience, the cruise ships are where couples can get hired as a team apparently. While you are still on salary somewhere, go on a cruise ship that offers diving, and tip the instructors crazy money to hear more about that. They need the money, and you need the info. What I hear of it is pretty ideal for starting out: constant turnover in customers, no rent/food costs. Never completely trust someone's claimed net income though, because the overhead for instructors is huge for both startup (training through instructors), and ongoing stuff, and few people are willing to admit living below the poverty line. A cruise ship setup has some costs covered though, so it is easier to read. Most working instructors became instructors with the financial support of someone else. Think of it as a year of expensive vocational school with no job guaranteed at the end, and no upper middle class income ever.

Why married teams for cruise ships and resorts? Because an unfortunate reality in diving is that the instructors are in a position of both authority and power with people underwater, and the list of bizarre sexual harassment situations that have bankrupted the larger companies over the diving operations for cause (and for unfounded accusations) is long. If it was possible to hire only women instructors, most would do it just to avoid those situations. But a solidly married over 30 y.o. couple is a nice thing too.

Young guys in general are bad at avoiding risk both in their personal diving choices, and the sexual harassment things.

Overall, I would say the number of people actually working as instructors long term is small enough to be essentially zero, if that is the only place they get their income. It's way more common to be passionate about diving and 'teaching diving full time' and really be living off military/civil service retirement plans or nursing etc, or the tiny retail pay from the dive shop, or other second job.

(Note: I am reversing the anecdotal evidence rule because I actually do know people who have done full time diving exclusively long term. But every single is exceptional somehow (in language skills and/or willingness to live below the poverty level) and the last standing remains of the constantly changing cohort. I know 4 that remain from a rotating cast of (literally) thousands. Making it just five years is exceptional to the level of just being statistical noise. As it turns out all 4 came from the same strong business model company, and used that experience. Two of them even literally inherited that company when the owner died. Cheaters!)

pupdive fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 27, 2015

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Ropes4u
May 2, 2009

The way I see it my wife and I have a few choices for purchasing regulators.

1) Atomic B2 and an Octo-Z - safe enough for a reef bitch (us for now). Light and easy to manage but won't grow beyond nitrox if we go crazy.

2) Atomic M1 streamlined kit for DGE - can grow into this and safe enough for any diving we will ever do, never needs replacement.

3) Atomic Z2 Octo and Reg - cheapest option. No swivels or flex hoses which may bother my wife.

Option two appears to be the safest and longest lasting bet to me, and at 1100 each isn't out of reach but my dreams of a crazy computer would be tried up to a Geo 2 or something similar.

Are any of these a bad choice?

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